Sabs vs. guns in MP, some people never learn...

[VaderJM]

You're right painreliever. When JO first came out, the first 4 days I was dominating, half the time I was no.1, 90% of the time, I was top 3. But starting yesterday, I started slipped severely down, I think the quakers got word that it's out and have flocked. So now, I play for fun, mostly dueling with a couple kills here and there, staying with the middle of the pack, that way I don't try to win, so I'm not disappointed when I don't and still have fun. Ahhh good times. And when people tell me I suck, I can say "Well, I wasn't even trying" hehe.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Welp, I just got done winning 10+ player FFAs and I did it mostly with guns. I did have to use saber a couple times when I had nothing else to use or I was cornered.

 

You saberists might think you can stand up to a skilled gunner, but chances are you haven't yet met an expert gunner with JK1 experience. Jump + strafe + circle +2nd attack = dead saberist.

 

The thing that really made me roll my eyes at the other players was that everyone kept calling me a newbie, even though no one could match my kills per minute. The origional idea of this post was, and still is, that you shouldn't whine and complain if you get gunned down on a guns server.

 

Be real, any newbie can run around and swing a saber. Guns requires aim. To aim you have to take into account: Lag, opponents movement, your movement, and the ballistics of the weapon you're using. It gets harder when fighting a JK1 experienced player who knows not to stay on the ground much. I like to think that people get upset when I rape them with guns because they know damn well that they couldn't gun or move as well as me even if thier lives depended on it.

[Morcalivan7]

Originally posted by Kalishnikov

Most gun attacks are fairly useless against a seasoned saber user, atleast when attacking head on. The secondary fire for the heavy repeater and the flak gun are the only two that ever concern me. This is assuming the server has a force level high enough to have level 3 saber defense.

 

It's the other way around, equally skilled gunner should kill an equally skilled saber.

 

I kill sabers all the time with my pistol with ease. Not to mention that I can always just use my absord while doing that so litterally the only thing a saber will be able to do will be charge at me and hope I slip up, or run away where as I usually catch up with'em.

 

Sabers are to be used when It's unavoidable close combat (very rarely ever happens, even then i usually use guns) or you run out of ammo.

 

A guy with force, and weapons is better then a guy with force and saber, simply put.

 

==========

 

Shoot single shots at tip of feet and u'll hit the enemy every time.

Also nudge up, bank left/right and fire, when u nudge it'll make the enemy attack and u bank to avoid giving a perfect head shot.

[Retro]

If I'm not much mistaken, this is describing Sabres FFA. As far as I'm aware, such servers exist, and are as easy to set up as ticking a checkbox. Just goes to show, a lot of people who rant at gunners in FFA simply haven't looked for another server. They want to jump into the first server they see with a low ping, and have it play the game THEY want. Doesn't work that way. You must search for a server that suits you, not expect every server to suit you.

 

Depends on the server, I've only found one server that suits me, and it's an Aus server where I get 150 more ping than I need to, it's not always fun, because sabres FFA is nothing like duels in the extreme, I go to that server, because SOME people WILL duel, and not just deathmatch, it's just me, I dont try to complain, I dont want to, and I dont play on gun servers, so I really cant be commenting. For the majority, sabres FFA, is just people wildly swinging in strong stand hoping to god they get a kill. Duels, at least to me, is some strategy.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Yeah I can respect sabs if it's a 1v1 dual since it does involve skill. I have little respect for Sabs in FFA since it usually degenerates into running around and swinging wildly.

 

Some of you guys are retarded though, Raven gave you every option to saber in MP. 1) most obvious, join a duals server 2) Almost as obvious, join a saber only server, 3) Use the dual function where you can challenge another to 1v1 sabs in a FFA. This makes you unable to affect or be affected by other players (accept the one you're dualing). If you get blasted by a gunner it's your own fault.

 

Stop b*******... clueless newbies.

[Jorusall]

I find it challenging to play against gunners. I don't care about the score, i only care about improving my game.

[mIRC]

Gunners are as much of a waste of our time as they were in JK1. If you want to play with guns, you might as well play Quake III Arena/Unreal Tournament/Half-Life. Sabers are the only thing that really set this game away from the rest, and by using guns you're really making it loose its "value". If everyone used guns, quite frankly, I'm sure this game would lose alot of people if it wasn't Star Wars.

 

BTW, I don't necessarily think running around shooting random guns at people is any different than people wildly swinging their saber.

[Spider AL]

Welp, I just got done winning 10+ player FFAs

 

Some of you guys are retarded

 

Stop b*******... clueless newbies.

 

Torment, your points are valid, but this kind of ego-play, I at least find distasteful, and I'm pretty sure it'll just anger the sabreists. Which is a shame.

 

shooting random guns at people

 

Mirc, many quality gunners choose exactly the right guns for the job, which is why they win. Just because you haven't explored possible gun strategies... doesn't mean there aren't any. Guns are very strategic weapons, and you have to know how to use them properly to get the best out of them. As for sabres, I love em. When I see a person carrying a gun, and I'm carrying my sabre, I use it to kill them if possible. But, if I see an experienced gunner, I don't stick around and wait to get hit. I whip up force speed, throw up a forcefield if I have one and go and find a repeater. Then I come back and try to take him out. That's what separates the two factions in this debate, one side uses the right tool at the right time to win, the other side... complains about getting shot on guns FFA maps.

 

A guy with force, and weapons is better then a guy with force and saber, simply put.

 

This is... highly simplistic. Skill is the important factor. I can kill some gunners with my sabre, I cannot kill the rest with my sabre. Those I cannot kill with my sabre, are too skilled for me to do that.

 

Jorusall, your attitude is refreshing and healthy, I wish more players shared it.

 

Whining is what happens when a person's over-inflated view of their own skill doesn't equal the score at the end of the match.

 

This is the ultimate definition of whining, and it must be preserved for posterity.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

JK2 is quakish compared to JK1, but the force powers add enough too it to make it better then quake. JK2 NF guns is basically quake, but I don't play NF guns I play FF guns.

[Canis_Aureus]

Well I really don't care about getting shot. I use the saber because I like it. If it weren't for the sabers I wouldn't be playing this game at all. I play it to have fun, and the powergamers who play just to win really can't ruin that. So I have no intentions of learning or getting wiser and start using guns... the game would become just another silly quake thing. I play Tribes 2, my favorite game... but fighting with a saber in JK2 is getting close.

 

I would like to see some more CTF sabers only servers though

[Jonny 2x4]

I am a newbie to this game. The main thing I have found out in this game is that the guns aren't really that strong, as far as multiplayer. When I am online, a person using only saber and another using guns are equal. I got on to a gun server this morning and only used my saber so I could get some practice and I was like 4th on my team with like 25 kills. I know that isnt that great, but I am a newb to this game. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in about what I think about the saber/gun issue. Saber can be a lot stronger, in my opinoin

[thrEEpaGe]

im glad that the newbies (literal) are putting their opinions into things, but their arguments are as flawed as those ff saberist people

 

a skilled guns person using regular force powers can completely own a master ff saberist

 

first of all: force run out far faster than ammo

guns fire faster than force push can be used

sabers have limited range; throw is useless

guns cause MUCH more damage

 

now...to tell saberists off (im a gunner i can saber very well, though)

 

dont whine about getting gunned in an ffa! FREE FOR ALL...not FREE FOR ALL EXCEPT THAT YOU CAN'T USE ALL OF THE WEAPONS REGULARLY AVAILABLE IN THE GAME

 

JO has different gameplay modes! get it through your thick skulls that if you want do duel, play in duel levels or servers or join a personal duel in an ffa....when you are in an ffa level, you are free game for me, or anyone else....it works this way in other games, unless some rules have been established, either with server news/notices or player notices...either play by the rules of hte server, or joina new server...

 

i am sorry, but any skilled gunner or saberist knows that saberists dont hold a chance against weapons..

[Riven_BW]

Spider, I think it would behoove you well to look at my post again. Nowhere in it have I made any blanket statement that people who use guns to good advantage are dishonorable. If you look, I made a reference to the people who were saying that "this is a computer game, honor has no place here". I believe differently. As I stated above, honor is not a sometime thing. It is something you either have or you do not, be it in a computer game, in real life, where-ever.

 

If you read down further, I also made I guess derogatory remarks towards the people who only ever use guns, and then go on about how great they are, and how guns are the only way to play. And I will restate my view here, hopefully more clearly:

 

Lightsabers is what makes this game different. If someone truly believes they are some great player because they learn where the rocket launcher loads and run and get it every game and spam explosives everywhere to top the kill board, then why are they playing this game? If they truly believe that guns are better than sabres, why are they playing this game? It is something akin to someone saying "I am the best player in the NBA, then running out and playing High School ball just so they could rack up points and look good. If you think guns are where it is at, go play a game that is designed for guns only - there you will get a true challenge. This game is not graphically leap years ahead of the true first-person-shooters out there, so nobody can try and say they're sticking with the game for the beautiful graphics. The simple fact is, Lightsabers, dueling is what makes this game special. If you don't want to be any part of that, and simply run around shooting people and using area-explosion weapons, why play the game? Pretty lame in my opinion.

 

Guns have their place. Occasionally I will use them. If I chance across a good gun, and suddenly 4 people from the other team come running towards me, you bet I'm going to try to blow them up. If it is two of them, my lightsaber comes out and we see who's better. It's the true so called 'gunwhores' whom I think are hypocritically hilarious. This game is a true leap ahead because of the lightsaber and non-projectile weapons fighting style. If you run around shooting guns and only guns all the time, you remove the thing that makes the game special.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

It's fine with me if you want to use sabers in situations where guns are dominate, just don't whine and complain when you get "smashed."

[Zariyn]

I hear all of this talk about how gunners > saberists, so where do the gunners like to hang out and play?

 

Zariyn

Jedi of the Light Side

[WD_ToRMeNt]

The people that I think of as good are the ones that were good in JK1.

 

You can find them on irc.enterthegame.com. #nar is a common channel many use and the xpert jk clans have thier own channels. An incomplete list would include #SyKoTiC, #JaG, #WDClan, and #IRN.

[Torquemada]

after re-reading a lot of these post's it has occured to me that gunners seem to be making a lot more noise than saberist's. I play strictly saber/force on ffa weapon's servers and I wouldn't play anywhere else. I think playing sabers only servers get boring. I would rather lose on a server and pull off 1 or 2 incredible (to me at least) moves than get to hung up about beating people I've never met. My advice to anyone (gun saber, whoever) who gets to hung up about there score would be:

 

Get a life.

[Spider AL]

Nowhere in it have I made any blanket statement that people who use guns to good advantage

Actually Riven, you did:

As for the 'gunwhores' and any others amongst you who laugh about people wanting there to be 'honor' in a computer game.

There you lump people you deem to be "gunwhores" which is a derogatory term for gun-users, in with those you deem to be dishonourable.

If you think guns are so much more powerful, you obviously must be pretty damned lame to even be playing JKII as you obviously are desparate to get kills, and the only way you can do so is by killing people using what you consider an inferior weapon.

There, you call people who believe guns to be more powerful "pretty damned lame," and "desparate to get kills." Finally in your more recent post:

If you think guns are where it is at, go play a game that is designed for guns only

You command those gunners to leave Jedi Outcast altogether. I, and other people who use guns on servers specifically designed for guns as well as sabres and FPs, find such sentiments wearing, and unpleasant. Hence the debate.

[Canis_Aureus]

lol Torment... does it take aim to hit with the guns in jk2? ... not really. A few rockets or other area of effect weapons aimed in the general direction of the enemy will get the job done.

 

If you have ever played Tribes or Tribes2 you would know what aiming is... In Tribes you must aim while both you and your opponent are jetting around in the air. The shot is affected by your own speed and direction too... so there is alot to take into consideration. The firering rate of your primary weapon is slow and it holds only 15 shots. Hitting a guy mid air with your spinfusor in Tribes 2 takes skill but above all experience.

 

The guns in JK2 are boring... the guns are just normal Quake like weapons... the gameplay when playing just with guns is just like Quake. Well quake was fun once... but now it must die.

 

I play JK2 just for the Sabers... without those it would just be... well Quake. I don't mind people using guns, and I don't care that they kill me either. I just play JK2 to relax from the hard work in Tribes2...

 

--> Tribes2 the master of all FPS's ... Before Tribes man lived in darkness and ignorance <---

[COLT 45]

Any suggestions for what guns would NOT be boring? I think the guns are a lot better than other FPS games lately.

[RabidPlatypus]

I consider myself good with the saber, I don't mean to brag though. 1/30 people i saber duel beat me. If I see somebody with a repeater and I have saber I try to dodge everything and unless its a cramped corridor its not that hard. Usually once they are out of ammo they resort to saber and I kill them, but the pissy thing is a lot of people run away too. Its not that guns are better, its that they are much safer.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Canis_Aureus, you obviously never played JK1 on an expert level. Force speed 4 + Force jump 4 makes tribes look slow. I know, I got kicked out of MY VERY FIRST online game of T2 because I was kicking to much butt.

 

JK2 is dumbed down from JK1, but still a good player will use force jump to keep off the ground as much as possible. Aiming is harder then you think. The rockets are slow and 2nd repeater projectile is fairly slow and has tight arc. Also the blast radius of both is fairly small.

[jipe]

This is ridiculous.. apparently everyone on this thread is "elite".. it's amazing, this thread must have all the top players in JO. And if you haven't heard of WD, then don't try to argue with Torment - you can't beat the best, and they're damn good. Me? I'm probably below average, and it's certainly not just my 56k. I usually use a combination of guns + sabers..

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

When I was learning JK multiplayer last year, Killer Bee challenged me to a game, I got completely owned. I was pissed off, annoyed and didn't really want to play him again. But then I played him another time because I had nobody else to play against. He owned me again, but afterwards in chat, I asked him for some tips. My skills increased noticably almost overnight. I originally thought he was a lamer for using Destruct and Conky all the time, but I Learnt how to cope. I can't beat him but I can hold my own.

 

Some of my friends who consider themselves "gamers" played a FF game with me, and I invited Bee, needless to say, they got extremely pissed off, and were annoyed with me and forbade me from inviting Bee ever again.

 

My point? Well if there is someone significantly better than you because the use a tactic you don't like, you can do two things.

 

1) Learn how to counter that tactic. ie in JK i used absorb and pulled the conky

 

2) Learn a technique that can defeat them.

 

But IF SOMEONE IS GUNNING YOU WHEN YOU ARE FIGHTING WITH SABERS, GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE. You can complain the first few times it happens, but after that you should have learnt to try a different tactic.

[Painreliever]

Torquemada while you were rereading the posts and noticing the gunners "making more noise" about the issue at hand you imply that at least one of the issues at hand is that people are getting upset over scores. This isn't actually the case. What you find in this post are variations of two issues. One issue being that people are arguing that sabers or projectile blaster-based weapons are better (which I think is really just people pushing their own opinion in order to justify their view on the second issue). The second issue is that gunners are getting grief for playing with the weapons the way the weapons were meant to be used. I can testify to this because in multiple games online I have been reemed for what others call lame tactics in FFA mostly because I chose to use a blaster over a saber.

 

In my opinion the real issue is that some players, particularly those who strongly adhere to the idea that Star Wars is a themed game and who choose to play with the lightsabers primarily, are trying to push their rules on players who play fairly, with "honor" and according to the rules on FFA servers.

 

The initial argument is that blaster users are lame because they kill the saber users without mercy who they are "obviously" trying to duel in the FFA game type. On the other hand gunners are upset with the flak they take for playing fairly according to the rules of the game. What ends up happening in this argument is that one person or another says, "Oh yeah, well I can kick your *** with (insert preferred weapon here)" and then makes a generalization that all of the other side sucks, that a skilled (whoever) could kick the **** out of a (opposite of whoever) user. Doubtless there are and will be many skilled users of both types of weapons who strongly adhere to the fairness and skillfullness of their choice of weapons(particularly in FFA).

 

If gunners are the majority of the people speaking out on this topic I would have to say that is because they take the majority of the heat for the way they play. If I chose to completely ignore the lightsaber and ran around in death match with a blaster or any other weapon how am I being any less true to the theme of Star Wars than any lightsaber user? Explain to me how it is that the majority of the characters in the Star Wars universe DON'T use lightsabers? What if I bought this game because I thought it would be cool to play as a bounty hunter, an imperial, a rebel soldier...are any of those less Star Wars than a Jedi Knight? Many of the posters in this thread insist that people who enjoy using the guns should go play Quake3, further insisting that JO is just Quake after you remove the lightsabers. This view is straight up WRONG. (I will assume at the moment that these people would also say that you would need to remove the force powers for this to be a Quake type game.) Yet the end result is the same...

 

There are no other FPS Star Wars games or mods built on current technology.

 

I know, I was involved with trying to make this happen. I know people who have tried to make this happen, and were shut down by Lucasarts with Cease and Desist orders because they were planning on making a game that could compete with this one. Now Lucasarts has released a game that not only introduces a variety of Star Wars themed maps, player models, weapons and skills, so that those of us who so badly wanted to play a Star Wars themed game could play one legally, but we have Lucasarts blessings. Now we are being told to kiss off by people who think that because the name of the game has "Jedi" in the title or because they have a heritage from the JK Dark Forces days that they are the true blue loyalists and hardcore of the Star Wars scene. As if they have been the center of the Star Wars world in gaming since the creation of time and thus we should bow down to their every little whim. B*** S***! Tell that to Bad Karma who has made Star Wars themed maps for UT for years, tell that to Longhorn and his team who attempted to mod Rune, tell that to any other team who simply wanted to explore a Star Wars universe in a game. These people wanted it so badly that Lucasarts had to get involved in order to stop them from creating something that might rival this game. Now we have been given the opportunity to play it, to mod it, to live and breathe it, explore it and enhance it as only a fan can and we are being told now to go away, to leave because an eliteist segment of the Star Wars community thinks they have the corner on how the ethics of Star Wars should really unfold.

 

Here's a thought, why don't we accept the ethics of the game as it is, a game that was approved in every detail by the people who know, Lucasarts. I am here to play my Star Wars game, no one is gonna tell me to leave because they don't like how things turned out. No one has the right to dictate to me that I am playing without honor or as a lamer when I use the tools built into the game by those who specifically approved them. The developers even had the foresight to accomodate the players who don't like FFA with guns, but that was not good enough. If there is anyone who needs to leave this game(or at the very least leave FFA with guns) it's the people who expect those who have long awaited this game to leave because their Star Wars sensabilities are hurt. There is no need to be comparing this game to any other game, it is what it is, like it or not. It's not Quake, it's not Tribes2 and it sure isn't meant to be a melee game only. Learn to appreciate the game for what it is, use the features in the game for their intended purposes and stop trying to bully the players who don't copitulate to your ideas of what fair play is.