RahnDelSol Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 At least, that's how it went tonight... After spending some more time in FFA, and getting absolutely kicked all over the place (as the only Light jedi on the server), I quit JK2 a little early. Gave it some time, thought to myself...why not try to find a CTF server? I always had my best success in my Quake days as a dedicated base defender. While others would be running all over the place, I'd be disciplined enough to stay at my post, making sure that flag didn't go anywhere it wasn't supposed to So I picked the first open/low ping CTF server I could find... http://members.cox.net/cadunbar78/ctf.jpg Ah, did that bring back some memories. I spent more time around my team's flag than anyone, and it paid off. I don't think a team I defended for lost a single match while I was around (And no, the scoreboard there doesn't show the teams right...it wasn't that unbalanced, some disconnected as soon as the timer ran out) Playing as a light-sider, I knew that most people consider it to be a better offensive flag-capper, what with the combo of absorb + speed, etc. Well, I tried my hand at it...but I didn't do so well. So, I stuck to defense. After an opposing light-sider mind-tricked his way by me a couple of times, I picked up force sight...and I'll tell you right now, it's probably the single most important skill a base defender can have, IMO. No one was able to catch me off guard after that...by regulating my use of it (so I didn't run out force), I was able to see when and where everyone was approaching base, and be waiting just around the corner to greet them with alt-repeater fire I know they had to get tired of seeing me waiting for them when those doors flew open...lol Some people were actually complaining that they couldn't get a duel...uh...hello? It's CTF! There are other things to worry about. Anyway, the point of this message is...for all of you out there who may not be the best in duels, or FFA...don't give up! There's something out there for you Experiment with all these game types until you find your "place". My place is, and always has been (from Quake to UT to JK), defending my team's flag. And woe be to the one who comes looking to take it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 I agree with you totally. People looking for honor and glory always are the attackers and flag runners, but the ones who are overlooked are the defenders. I realized that I suck compared to most people so I always play a defender, low and behold I found out that I was a good defender. Defenders may not win the games but they give their team time to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuadHelix Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Hmm. I don't play CTF much (actually, I almost never play, as I think it's the most annoying gametype, but thats just my opinion). But reading that, when you write "Base Defender" what I read is "Camper". All you really do is sit around and wait til someone comes along to take the flag so you can get a cheap kill? Come on, that's just no fun. Actually, that's exactly the reason I prefer FFA. Yeah, there are campers there, too (well, not so much in Saber-only games) but at least it's not exactly an accepted way to play the game and they're usually voted out quick enough. Just my 2 cents... ~QuadHelix~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagadka Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 *LMAO* Base defense is camping... the stupidest (and oldest) CTF comment ever. What most people don't seem to understand is that CTF is about teamwork. It takes teamwork to organize an effective defense, and even more team work to GET THROUGH IT. Most people will just run at it like lemmings, get slaughtered, and start spamming "CAMPER!" I usually play midfield in CTF - watching enemy movements and reporting it, softening them up on the way in, and intercepting runners on the way out - and, of course, escorting our flag runner (or at least engaging the chasers so he can get away). It isn't a glorious position, but I enjoy it. I also work with the defense a lot, and having a good D man is important. Remember, the goal of CTF isn't to get frags, so "camping" is irrelevant. A bad player will camp some stupid spot and kill people who pass by. A good player will defend a vital position... The goal of CTF is to, as the name suggests, CTF. Kills are completely irrelevant. Some of the best CTF games I've had have had very, very few kills (mostly flag runners). Any real CTF player won't even let the word "frags" enter his mind during a game. You can't look at CTF from a deathmatch POV. They are entirely different creatures - and most bad CTF games are because a bunch of deathmatchers don't understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-7ighlander Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Actually, sitting at the flag with sight and heavy repeater alt fire....... ...... ..... Ill just be quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagadka Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Well, aside from the heavy repeater being a dumbass weapon in the first place, the point still stands. :-) Anyway, there are ways around that. It just takes a little more strategy. If you can get into the Tombstone base in T2, with 2 heavies mortar spamming the flag (trust me, you CAN... it is just really hard), heavy repeater spam is cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahnDelSol Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 lmao No, trust me...there's no "camping" going on here. I'm a very active defender. No, I don't "sit" at the flag. With sight on, I can see people coming from a distance. I often move to meet them before they can get near the flag area if there's no one already in their path. You can call it camping, call it lame, call it dishonorable...whatever. It's Capture the Flag. The goal is to do just that. Everything else takes a backseat. No one ever seems to want to play defender, everyone just makes banzai runs at the enemy flag. Often I find myself alone at the base because I'm the only one who's willing to stay behind and keep it protected. If you don't like the fact that I'm using the repeater, tough break. As I just said, I'm often alone against incoming enemies. I need all the firepower I can get. I've used the flechette gun as well, but in close quarters I prefer the repeater. Besides, if I decide to play "honorably" and whip out my saber, chances are I'll just get blasted with repeater/mortar/rocket fire anyway. There is a time and place for "honorable" duels, and CTF isn't it. Boring? Well, if the other team isn't skilled enough to find a way to the base, yeah...you'll never see any action. In such cases, I'll move closer to the middle of the level to try and pick off anyone who might be close, but never go too far for too long. Don't hate me because you don't understand CTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracken Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 There is nothing more satisfying than playing a CTF game, running out of the Red base on Yavin with the flag (w/ Force-based teams on), Force Speed at max, pursued by six enemy Defenders, when I run through a group of my intrepid teammates, who proceed to hack and slash their way through the now-disorganized enemy force. CTF my second favorite gamemode in JK2, right after Duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Wolf Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Just be glad i wasnt there rhan, i woulda force pushed that alt repeater fire so far down your throat!!! Seriously though folks if u are sick of the heavy repeater alt fire, just "force push" it back ..problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahnDelSol Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 And you see, some folks tried that My counter to that, duck behind the corner (again with force sight on so I can see them thru the wall) and fire a shot at their feet as they round the corner. Keep moving/strafing/firing. Or, in an open-air base, force-jump over their heads and fire from above. As Wolf pointed out, for every tactic there is a counter. And as I just said, for every counter there is ANOTHER counter And people say it's "just a shoot-em-up"...hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 I'm getting the game tomorrow, so i aint tried CTF in JO yet... but from my experience of other games, being in defence aint the same as camping. most times u need to give a little bit of a chase after the flag once its nicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticBulge Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Originally posted by Zagadka Well, aside from the heavy repeater being a dumbass weapon in the first place, the point still stands. :-) Anyway, there are ways around that. It just takes a little more strategy. If you can get into the Tombstone base in T2, with 2 heavies mortar spamming the flag (trust me, you CAN... it is just really hard), heavy repeater spam is cake. Ahhhh.. Tombstone... JKII CTF is awesome fun. Pretty much everything about JKII is awesome, but I still don't think it can hold a candle to the amount of teamwork/strategy required in T2 competition (not pubs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-street Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Ahh CTF: Definately right about that Absorb-Speed combo for flag captures.. but i think most people who are flag runners over look the Pull Force.. many times people will sit there with guns and what not at the flag defending it.. a force pull at close range easily disarms them ( if you are force speeding in it is even better).. for a good flag runner it is good practice to learn to navigate the maps backwards also.. 1. so you can fight the chasers 2. i use a force push to widen the distance between me and the chaser also (nasty nasty trick) in any level possible pick up the force field. One sure fire way to escape is to drop the force field in a corridor in front of the chasers. Defenders.. remember you can take a force field down pretty easily ( 1 or 2 sabre swipes).. as far as flag defenders go a good tip is to not use any force powers on somone glowing blue. it seems there are usually 4 people that just sit there and try and push push push push or grip grip grip.. it basically gives that runner the capacity to do 2 force speeds in a row ( he will usually run out mid map) and that is a sure fire cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 I love it when people WHINE over campers, snipers, defenders, or whatever you want to call them. My favorite quote from years ago was someone's forum reply "Mommy! Make the evil campers go away, my P***Y hurts! Mommy!". It is a style of play that some find exciting for their own reasons. It works great for higher ping and lag players. That was the only way I could get enjoyment out of UT CTF back when I only had a 56K connection. I am not talking about those who camp at spawn points and kill you before you can even move. Those people deserve to be kicked, stomped, or whatever. FFA is fun but for most people it is just hopping around swinging and shooting wildly and then calling yourself skilled. Really, whatever. I hate playing CTF games where everyone is on the offensive but not necessarily tring to CTF. Then the other team gets there act together and actually try to CTF and win because no one on our side is guarding or playing defense. Many times it seems CTF is a variation of team deathmatch. See ya, Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahnDelSol Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Ahh, H-street You were the one doing all the offense in the match referenced by my screenshot, weren't ya? I remember that name. That's another thing...a skilled offensive push makes my job as a defender that much easier, as the other team is scrambling to recover their flag all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-street Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 yea i think i was there.. i had to leave early for dinner :-) we had a very good team that round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahnDelSol Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Do you remember the name of the server? I'd just picked it at random, I'd like to head there again sometime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 its not camping if you are constantly running around and keeping people away from your flag, it is boring just sitting in one stop to ambush some one. I never watch the flag, I just kill the other team when they try to get the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-street Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Don't remember the name of the server.. try the gamespy CTF servers though.. so far those i've found to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Here is a question for ya. How do I do the "gamespy servers" from the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahnDelSol Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Originally posted by QuadHelix Hmm. I don't play CTF much (actually, I almost never play, as I think it's the most annoying gametype, but thats just my opinion). But reading that, when you write "Base Defender" what I read is "Camper". All you really do is sit around and wait til someone comes along to take the flag so you can get a cheap kill? Come on, that's just no fun. Actually, that's exactly the reason I prefer FFA. Yeah, there are campers there, too (well, not so much in Saber-only games) but at least it's not exactly an accepted way to play the game and they're usually voted out quick enough. Just my 2 cents... ~QuadHelix~ I actually did want to comment directly on one thing said here... "All you really do is sit around and wait til someone comes along to take the flag so you can get a cheap kill? Come on, that's just no fun." The whole point of playing defense on CTF is to prevent other players from taking the flag. The number of kills you get is irrelevant. Look at the score in my screenshot. See the 400+ score by my name? Doesn't mean a thing. Mainly because killing someone near your flag area gives a lot of points...lol...but seriously, I could have the most kills of anyone and we could still lose. The important score is the 10 to 1 at the top. That means my teammates succeeded in stealing the flag 10 times, while my defense of our flag only broke down once in a 40 minute match. CTF, unlike a deathmatch, has a bigger, team-oriented purpose. There are two sides to that purpose...offense, and defense. It's not lame to choose defense. As someone pointed out above, that's a deathmatcher's point of view...and this is so far removed from DM, those views don't apply. Campers, by the FPS definition, are people who get in a single spot that is either hard to attack (providing safety for said camper) or contains a valuable item...and they plant themselves there, blasting anyone who comes by with relative impunity. Now, one could TRY to argue that the "valuable item" is the flag. However, this logic doesn't work. In a typical DM, let's say our camping friend is guarding a rocket launcher and ammo spawn. Anyone who comes near is going to get a rocket in the face. Not a big deal, really...he never moves too far from the spot, so a skilled player can take him out. Or, people can just avoid the area. It's only a rocket launcher. In CTF though, the goal is to take the flag. It's the overriding theme of the enemy to do so. Thus, it makes perfect sense to have someone stationed nearby to prevent this. You can't win a CTF match by running around killing people like you're in a DM. There HAS to be an offense and a defense from both sides for it to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Wolf Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 If you just read rhans above comment and disagree, you dont have a brain in the whole of your head and are not welcomed here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worm777 Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 "Camping" should not be considered a cheap tactic in any CTF game. The goal of the game is to capture the opponents flag while defending your own flag. What better way to defend your own flag than by hanging around it and shooting in coming cappers. In any serious FPS CTF ladder compeition I have been in regardless of the game there is always a defense element that guards the flag. You can have the best cappers in the world on your team but if no one is defending your flag you aren't gonna win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-street Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 That is the actual name of it in the in game browser.. might have been gamers.com. don't remember it will say something like Gamers.com JK2 Linux CTF #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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