Creston Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 That might actually very well be, simonknight. It would make very good sense for them to do so. Especially since Star Trek 10 is coming out sometime this summer season as well, and there are a truckload of star trek games in the stores, it could very well be that LucasArts decided a little extra marketing never hurt (even though the Star Trek movie will get nowhere near the numbers the 2nd star wars movie will). Then again, I actually wonder just how many people will go see the second star wars. The numbers for episode one weren't really all that high, after all (compared to the hype of how it was going to shatter Titanic's box office record), and I know a lot of people who were really turned off by it. Maybe that's why George Lucas made this into a "romance". It wouldn't surprise me if Anakin and Amidala were standing with their arms spread on the bow of a Dreadnaught cruiser at some point... He's hoping to get the lovesick audience of Titanic to come see his movie.. As for Bail Antilles / Bail Organa, sorry, but I don't buy it. Leia's father had been a member of the old Republic Senate and had been in that service for a long time in his life, Leia's memories of him show him in that position always. The timing just doesn't work out for it to be two different people. He just screwed up. Creston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Ok Creston...as for George Lucas 'turning it into' a love story, if you read the pre-Ep 1 literature you'd know that Ep2 was always going to be a love story. And Ep 1 didn't do that well?... In what universe? I mean, Titanic had a major advantage over Ep 1, teenage girls and their fathers wallets *grin* I think being one of the top 10 highest grossing films of all time shows that maybe a few people will see the next one...especially since this one looks supremely awesome (even if the CG/live integration looks a lil rough). Leia's father had been a member of the old Republic Senate and had been in that service for a long time in his life, Leia's memories of him show him in that position always. What does that have to do with someone else from the same planet having the same first name? BIIIIIIIG coincidence there... Also let's examine some timing, Leia would have been adopted 14 or so years after Ep 1 occured, and if Bail was around the average he would be, say, 30 when that happened. Was he in the senate at 16, or even in his early/mid 20's if he was a little older? Unlikely since Leia was a shockingly young senator at 18... So really, this could easily be a big coincidence, or maybe Bail isn't actually his first name, but an Alderaanian title. Who really knows, but the likelyhood of that is less than the rather minimal likelyhood of Lucas screwing up on a major characters name... (I know, I should just leave it alone, but I'm the dumbass who picks at scabs...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.L. Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by Wes Janson SMR In fact, the very first EU boook was published just after ANH was shown in the late 70s. And if you pick it up now (the name eludes me right now), George even has a little introduction, nodding to the expansion of his own universe. He knows, and he cares. Splinter of the Minds Eye by Alan Dean Foster. This is in no way accurate to the films. Vader gets his arm hacked off by Luke in this and Vader also gets his ass handed to him on a plate. Leia also dies and is resurrected by Luke using the Force and some bull**** mythical stone, the Kaliburr Crystal. It's extremely far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creston Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Top ten grossing films of all time? Episode One? I think you're mistaking it with the the original Star Wars here... My hacking on the "love story" thing is merely to show my disagreement with where Lucas is taking things. FFS, look at the first trilogy. It's full of excitement, drama, **** that blows up, lightsaber battles, humor, massive battles etc. Then look at episode 1. It's about Qui Gon walking around in a desert, talking to a twerp of a kid. The pod race was nice, and the battles at the end are alright (the lightsaber battle was spectacular). In WHAT way does it even COMPARE to the original trilogy? But ok, it's the first episode, right? George Lucas did the first three, he'll get back on track for the new movie too. And now we see a trailer of Anakin and Amidala in a field of flowers, all cuddly.. Ahhh how sweet. I want more of that spectacular **** we had in the first trilogy!!!!!! If people don't agree, fair enough. I am only posting my own opinions here, there is nowhere where I say that my word is law. It's George Lucas' intellectual property, he can do whatever he wants with it. In my opinion, however, he's turning Star Wars into a bloody damn fiasco. And as a longtime fan of the whole setting, that just pisses me off. Sue me. As for Bail Antilles and Bail Organa *shrug*. You stick by your story, I'll stick by mine. Bail was old when they nuked Alderaan, and had been in the senate for most of his adult life. I say it's an error on his part, you say it's not. Apples and peaches Creston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by D.L. Vader gets his arm hacked off by Luke in this and Vader also gets his ass handed to him on a plate. Leia also dies and is resurrected by Luke using the Force and some bull**** mythical stone, the Kaliburr Crystal. It's extremely far fetched. You forgot that Leia touches the crystal and do not senses anything, and the woman tell her 'of course you can't, you do not have the FORCE' well, it can be that she was not initiated.... Well Bail Organa Is a different person from Bail Antilles. Bail is a name, and possibly a common name in Alderaan. In EpII to EpIV there are 20 years so Bail can be the senator for these. And Padme and Jar-Jar are TWO senators from Nabo, so Alderaan can have to senators too... And he is The KING of Alderaan, so he could have more important affairs in his planet during EpII or be too young. Qui-Gon may not burnt his hands because he protected himself with the force? Morgan Katarn HAS the Force as i said in another topic, he didn't trined because he (or his parents) may be affraid of the Emperor. Similar to Corran Horn's story. Han solo has the same outfit in ROJ, just more decolored (because of the freeze, i suppose) Luke's accademy was not insight during MOTS, it is JUST AFTER The last command Kyle has a red lightsaber during game (not in the movies, wich is orange) because the cog file that is called Darkkyle and darkmara have both red lightsabers I'm sure( i hope) the lOVE-JEDI thing is for the PADAWANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zek Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Creston, what about Han and Leia in the original trilogy? Don't judge Episode 2 before it comes out. From what I've heard, there's a hell of a lot more battle scenes in this one than in Episode 1, so don't say Lucas is ruining the series after seeing a trailer or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 SW Canon is: The official films, the screenplays of those films, the official novelisations of those films, and the radio dramas IN THAT ORDER. How does it work? Basically you take those sources as canon, and everything else, where it contradicts those, is simply out of continuity with the canon. If something in the radio dramas isn't mentioned in the films, but doesn't contradict them, it's fair game, etc with the others. What is the EU? (Expanded Universe) All official Star Wars material that's not canon. (So that includes all the comics, games, other novels, toys, technical manuals, cartoons, etc). What is official? To use the Star Wars names and likenesses, they need to be liscensed through GL and his companies at LucasFilm. What is "unofficial"? Stuff that people just made up, non-commercial products like fan-films and fan-fiction on the internet... custom built action figures, that sort of thing. Canon is simply the continuity that George Lucas is following when making the films. In other words, you can't use the EU as a reliable guide to predict what will happen in the films, and you can't say the films are wrong if they contradict the EU. However, there have been efforts by various authors to "agree with each other" to maintain some sort of continuity within the EU, however they don't have to do that. Think about Star Trek, or Highlander... very little effort is made to maintain strict continuity. It's up to the franchise. The whole issue came up because we were trying to argue whether the Dark Forces games had to be just like the movies (or some people's interpretation of what the movies are like). I argued that it's part of the EU, so all bets are off, they can do whatever they want. Remember: yes, to get the Star Wars logo, you need to be officially liscensed, but that doesn't make it "canon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Top ten grossing films of all time? Episode One? I think you're mistaking it with the the original Star Wars here... Uh...Creston, take a look at this... 1. $601 Titanic 1997 2. $461 Star Wars 1977 3. $431 Star Wars: The Phantom Menace 1999 4. $431 * E.T. 1982 5. $357 Jurassic Park 1993 6. $330 Forrest Gump 1994 7. $317 * Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone 2001 8. $313 The Lion King 1994 9. $307 Return of the Jedi 1983 10. $306 Independence Day 1996 So...research before you post...though granted this is just one source But ok, it's the first episode, right? George Lucas did the first three, he'll get back on track for the new movie too. And now we see a trailer of Anakin and Amidala in a field of flowers, all cuddly.. Ahhh how sweet. I want more of that spectacular **** we had in the first trilogy!!!!!! Another lack of research issue, did you miss the trailers that showed the AWESOME looking battle sequences? Correct me if I'm wrong but there may've been a wee bit of greasy handed cuddling in ESB...if he wants to jump it up to the next level, well curse him for not making the EXACT same three movies again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperFett Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 It's only not canon if it's marked with infinities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by D.L. Splinter of the Minds Eye by Alan Dean Foster. This is in no way accurate to the films. Vader gets his arm hacked off by Luke in this and Vader also gets his ass handed to him on a plate. Leia also dies and is resurrected by Luke using the Force and some bull**** mythical stone, the Kaliburr Crystal. It's extremely far fetched. I never read the damned book. I read the introduction, but not the book. And to be honest, I think George didn't even like it when it was written. '-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperFett Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Splinter of the Minds eye is what Lucas wrote for if ANH flopped. SOTME would be the TV sequel. Little fact for y'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reb Starblazer Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Possible slight spoiler here Just a little note, Bail Organa WILL be in Episode 2. He will make a brief appearance, probably just a small scene, but he will have a larger role in Episode 3. His official title is "Viceroy and First Chairman of Alderaan" This means that there may be also be a senator named Bail Antilles who represents alderaan in the senate. Amdiala was queen of the Naboo, but she didn't represent them in the senate, that was Palpatine's (shudder) job. See where I'm going with this? Leia was a princess, her father was a king, so it makes sense that he wouldn't be in the senate. Besides where does it say that Bail Organa was a senator? If I'm wrong about this, a little proof, and I'll detract my statement. PS. Just because the guys name is Bail Antilles doesn't mean it's the same guy. I know plenty of people with the same name. Besides, who's to say he wasn't named after Alderaan's benovolent king? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Bingo. Jan also appears to be a unisex name. There's Jan Ors, and Jan Dodonna (bearded dude who gave the Death Star briefing in ANH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushgarak Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 About Infinties- that means it is not relevant to EU canon. Infinities is a load of 'What if?' scenarios for fun. They are blatantly out of even the Expanded Universe plotlines. It does not follow that everything that is not Infinities is therefore canonical in relationship to the films, because it is not. May I make a slight correction, Kurgan? Whilst the thrust of what you say is correct, it is not LITERALLY true that EU means 'everything that is not canon' The literal defintion of EU is any Star Wars work not directly based on a GL story. And it so happens that these have all been called non-canon- but that's only because they chose to not make it so. EU doesn't actually MEAN non-canon, that's just how it is. The most important result of that is that the parts of the novels that are blatantly wrong (e.g. Owen Lars being Obi-Wan's brother) are not canon. But they are not EU either. The two don't HAVE to go together. Anyway... about Morgan. 1. In the films, ONLY a very few select Jedi do the ghost thing. It is not a general ability, and we have good reason to think that only Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan do it. That's also why Qui-Gon's body did not disappear- that's reserved for the ghost trick users. 2. If we assume that the Valley of the Jedi is an EU exception of this rule, it STILL doesn't mean that Morgan should be a ghost there; it should still have been Rahn. Seeing Morgan strikes me as rather weird. We have no idea whether the Force can be passed as a result of genetics (the Skywalkers hardly being a typical example), but I think we can be mostly sure that Morgan was no Force adept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Fighter Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Morgan should not be a ghost remember maw said that he stuck his head on a pike for everyone to see plus he did not disappear or have any kind of jedi powers he had a jedi friend who was pathetic at defending against a blast of the force and just died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Bail Organa Appears in EPII a lot (i think) we can see him alot in the trailers. Obi-Wan was never officially Owen's brother, i remember it was only Luke's supposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushgarak Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 No it wasn't. Obi-Wan told Luke that Owen was his brother in the ROTJ novelisation and it passed into fan lore. That segment of the ROTJ novel is now totally irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creston Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Originally posted by Zek Creston, what about Han and Leia in the original trilogy? Don't judge Episode 2 before it comes out. From what I've heard, there's a hell of a lot more battle scenes in this one than in Episode 1, so don't say Lucas is ruining the series after seeing a trailer or two. \ What about them? They sure didn't get all mushy like that vomit inducing field of flowers scene in the Ep 2 trailer.. (and before anyone says that I hate romance or anything, I am happily engaged and will get married in 6 weeks, AND I happen to like romantic movies. I just don't feel it's all that... appropriate? in a Star Wars movie). I mean, if there is any other reason for it other than trying to get young girls to come see the movie, someone please tell me. Here's a nice sarcastic snippet I picked from a site of top ten movies, in regards to Titanic's phenomenal success : "It wasn't entirely the teenage girls going to the movie eleven times each that brought in the big bucks (they probably made up a mere 80% of the audience)." So now we know what George wants.. And I'm not saying Lucas is ruining the series just after seeing Ep2's trailer, I'm saying he's ruining it after seeing Episode one, after seeing the portents for episode 2, AND after reading the first five episodes of the New Jedi Order (although, presumably, that's not really George's division). Hey, believe me, I'll still go see Ep 2. I am still a huge star wars fan, otherwise I wouldn't even take so much time to write and complain about it. I've run a star wars RPG, and I've even written part of a novel for the star wars universe (with some hopes of getting it published even, until not five months later Timothy Zahn's Vision of the Future came out, declaring any and all books in the 'old' New Republic vs Empire setting finished.) I LOVE Star Wars. So far I'm just horribly disappointed with what they are doing to it. But, we'll see after may 16th. Who knows, maybe George has finally woken up and realised that floppy eared CGI imbeciles are NOT what we want to see. Now, the books had to do SOMETHING in order to remain interesting, and an extragalaxial threat was probably the only sensible remaining thing to do. The big mistake they made was to have some guy with NO sense of sci fi whatsoever to write the initial book. And sorry, but this whole "the heroes were too invincible, we NEEDED to show they could die too" crap is just that. CRAP. If I want to see or read about people dying, I'll turn to the news thank you. If I read a book, I want to be entertained, and I DON'T want to see a favorite character die every two novels. (Exactly who is it that dies now, in Star by Star? Luke? Han? Hell, let's kill all of them off. We're screwing the whole universe up anyways, let's totally nuke all of them.) BAH Creston PS No offense intended to anyone (except maybe George Lucas ). PPS : Vestril. That list does in fact surprise me, because I haven't seen it ranked that high yet. The lists that I saw, admittedly well over a year ago, when Ep one was removed from theaters pretty much everywhere did not have it ranked in the top ten, hence my question if you were confusing it. Does this list take into account DVD and video sales? Also, I notice that Titanic is at the top with 600 some million. Most lists I have seen, and pretty much every discussion on Titanic's phenomenal success place it well over a billion dollars, so I'm not sure how accurate ANY list is, actually. (Edited : I just looked this up, and it turns out the 600 million is US sales only. Worldwide, Titanic has raked in three times that, and it seems episode one is well up there with 900 million.) But I will admit that that is more than I had thought episode one had grossed. My mistake, and apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princessliar Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Aha, finally something I can make an intelligent comment on! I think we can be mostly sure that Morgan was no Force adept They are pretty hard to come by as they are out of print, but there was a trio of Dark Forces graphic novels by William C. Dietz published, incorporating the plots of Dark Forces and Jedi Knight. These tell us that Morgan was Force sensitive, but that he decided he was too weak to properly wield its power after once, when he was a boy, pushing a bully off balance and accidentally sending him falling to his death. Morgan discovered the Valley of the Jedi and learned of the prophecy - "A knight will come, a battle will be fought and the spirits be set free" or something like that. Morgan knew he couldn't fulfill the prophecy and, feeling the sting of his failure, passed on the co-ordinates of the valley to Rahn. So although Morgan was Force sensitive, he refused the Force and certainly never attained a level of control comparable to Yoda or Obi Wan, so it still remains a mystery as to why he appeared as a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Like father like son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 13, 2002 Author Share Posted April 13, 2002 Splinter of the Mind's Eye is EU, and "farfetchd" is a relative term... Compared to the rest of the EU it isn't bad. Consider the ideas are from Lucas (before ESB and ROTJ were set in stone with the films) it's actually pretty enterataining. All EU is the same, that includes SOTE and SOTME... it's non-canon, but it's official. As to Leia being "resurrected"I think I missed that. I picked up my copy and it had Leia being healed, but she wasn't dead. The Crystal is just a "chunk of rock" but the force can be focused through it to do stuff beyond what a normal force user can do. Recall that JK used this idea with the force boosts and surges. Heck, the Dark Surge in JK is what I pictured the Kaiburr Crystal to look like. JK2 opted to go with holocrons instead (instant learning? Since the holocrons are basically just like technical books/training videos for Jedi). I'm on a crappy computer here, so I apologize if I can't answer everyone, it's tough enough just to post this. ; P My comments on canon still stand. All Star Wars stories are based on stories by George Lucas, since they are based on "characters and situations by George Lucas." The Films are first, then the rest (screenplays of the films, novelisations of the films, and radio dramas of the films). Thus SOTME would fall into the definition of 'non canon' and expanded universe, as would SOTE. Now I guess I'd have to go to LucasFilm to get a better clarification, but in short.. no Star Wars novel is "canon" except for the novel versions of Star Wars (from the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, aka A New Hope), The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and The Phantom Menace (and the future book versions of Attack of the Clones and Episode III). Here's another take on Canon.. read and see what you think: http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Misc/Canon.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coran Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 In Mots Kyle's saber in the cutscenes is orange, but during play when your dueling him it is red so I guess thats how some people got confused... I think EU is credible, and it adds to the Star Wars Universe but Lucas did let it get way out of hand. He should have been more careful of what he approved because some of the books are such crap that they cheapened Star Wars as a whole. (at least for me) Timothy Zahn's books rocked, as did Shadows of the Empire and most of Stackpole's were excellent too. Kevin J. Anderson is a horrible author. Someone said that all these dark jedi popping up out of nowhere was cheesy and that it did not fit with the movies but that can be explained. In Heir to the Empire we found out that when Yoda said to Luke that he was the last of the jedi he only meant that Luke was the last good jedi, he did not mean there were no other force-wielders other than he, Vader, and the Emperor. Yoda did not consider dark jedi as jedi at all otherwise he would have mentioned C'boath. Plus the Emperor and Vader did have some dark jedi left over who were used to help extinquish the Old Republic Jedi Order including High Inquisitor Tremayne and others who were not found and killed by the Luke and the New Jedi Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushgarak Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Well, obviously when I said novels, I only meant the novels of the films... But Lucasfilm describe the EU as all original stories set in the SW universe, as opposed to adaptations of GL's stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Bad books. - Truce at Bakura - Children of the Jedi - The New Rebellion - Darksaber I started from Shadows of the Empire (my favorite), and now I'm at the Corellian Trillogy. Those are the books that I disliked the most [the ones stated above]. The only cool factor in Darksaber was that Wedge had a bigger role than he did in other EU novels (excluding the X-Wing Series of course...) Can't wait until I get to the New Jedi Order Series. I'm just not sure if I'll go ahead and read the Young Jedi Knights Series. People are telling me that it's weak, but I'm still interest to find out just what the Solo kids are all about. But back to authors.... It seems like the female authors of Star Wars don't cut it. With the exception of Crystal Star and Planet of Twilight. They were okay. Any comments on the Young Jedi Knights Series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Don't bother reading the Young Jedi Knight series. It's horribly stupid: full of absurd situations, bad jokes, and the general drivel that comes from KJA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.