DF Series Storyline Continuity (Revised, and w/ Spoilers)

[Vestril]

PPS : Vestril. That list does in fact surprise me, because I haven't seen it ranked that high yet. The lists that I saw, admittedly well over a year ago, when Ep one was removed from theaters pretty much everywhere did not have it ranked in the top ten, hence my question if you were confusing it.

 

I just wanted to say that it's nice to know that I can disagree with someone without getting flamed for it, you make some really good points and I know that the list I looked at was US grosses only, I was just looking for a quick reference and to show that EpI was at least in the top 10 (I imagine US grosses accurately reflect worldwide states with at least a 7 slot tolerance lol)

 

But, we'll see after may 16th. Who knows, maybe George has finally woken up and realised that floppy eared CGI imbeciles are NOT what we want to see.

Lol, you know...this is a good way to get flamed, but I never had a problem with Jar Jar, I didn't think he was amazing, but I never really understood why people were so annoyed with him...he was a good way of showing what they can do with the technology...

 

Lasty even if Episode II and Episode III are utter crap, you'll always have the original series, and you can (with practice lol) shut the parts you don't like out. Or you can open your mind and try not to think about the comercial aspects and just appreciate what you can. I just think that if you give it a chance you can enjoy it. I think a lot of people had expectations for the movie, and it didn't meet them and therefore they decided that it was bad, without even trying to enjoy it just as a movie. I don't know if you are one of those people, and I don't mean to be rude, or disrespectful.

[princessliar]

Morgan should not be a ghost remember maw said that he stuck his head on a pike for everyone to see. plus he did not disappear or have any kind of jedi powers he had a jedi friend who was pathetic at defending against a blast of the force and just died

As I mentioned before, although Morgan was Force sensitive I agree that it doesn't make sense for him to become a ghost and no, he certainly didn't disappear after he died (the pictures in the first graphic novel make that abundantly clear).

 

Rahn, however, wasn't weak. He was on a ship faced with seven dark jedi who had just murdered several of his friends in cold blood, so he didn't really stand a chance. That didn't stop him trying though. He pulled Yun's lightsaber off him, severed a tendon in Boc's ankle and cut Maw's legs off. Not bad for an "old man", and after all, is was said that Jerec's powers "rivalled Vader's".

[Creston]

Vestril,

 

Well, to be honest, I was one of the people who before episode one said that it could NEVER be as good as the original trilogy. Simply because expectations were too high, and Star Wars has been with us (ie, the fans) for so long, that any attempt at creating another Star Wars story was doomed to never get to the same heights as the original trilogy.

Combine that with the EU, which as a whole has been of a pretty high standard, and I knew Episode one would not be as good, so I set my standards lower, so as not to be too disappointed.

I also knew that it wouldn't be fair to compare episode one (one movie of the three) to the WHOLE original trilogy.

 

But to give an example, I have probably watched the original trilogy a few hundred times (and HEARD it a few hundred more, I would usually just turn it on so it played in the background while I played the ultima series for example), I've only seen episode one four times (and I DO have the video..).

 

I just felt.. I don't know, that it was boring. The parts where they land on Tatooine and spend ages trying to get that part for their ship is SO mind numbing and yawn inducing that it ruins the whole movie for me. The fact that Jake Lloyd has to be the WORST child actor ever seen on the big screen doesn't help matters any. Jar Jar Binks and his idiotic things on screen were just an insult to anyone above six years of age.

 

But, I was prepared to wait for episode 2, and to see what happenes. Imagine my shock and horror when I heard that it was going to be primarily a romance (urgh), and I saw the "forbidden love" trailer, which featured almost nothing except Portman and Hayden something giving each other calf eyed looks... Grrrr..

 

To be fair though, after reading a lot of the posts here, I realised I had missed some trailers, so I downloaded them yesterday, and watched them, and I must say I do look forward to ep 2 with a lot more anticipation now

 

And you're not rude or disrespectful at all. I'm glad people on this forum can have civilized discussions on Star Wars (i'm in another discussion about the New Jedi Order in another threat) without it turning into a "J00 Suxx0r L@m3R!" flame thread within two posts.

 

Cheers

 

Creston

[Wes Janson SMR]

People need to realize that trillogies work in systems. The first story is usually an introduction to the universe - which is what Episode I was. It introduced all the primary characters, and put them in a situation that moves the plot along for Episode II.

 

Episode II will be a lot more interesting, because we'll spend less time being "introduced" to people (we already know who the main cast is), and more time moving about the general plot. That means more action, and room for the romance to bloom.

 

And honestly, I'm glad so many people have low expectations for Episode II. I know it's going to be a lot better than EPI - one that will rival the interests that the original trillogy induced. It will blow people out of their seats, and send them right back to the ticket booth wanting to see it again, and again, and again.

 

Think about this: how do you see Episode IV in the original trillogy? It's also essentially, an introduction. By the time Episode V adn VI came out, we already knew who the cast was, and we moved along pretty briskly - getting into more trouble and more action. By comparison, A New Hope was a little dry, boreing, and light-hearted compared to the latter two movies (akin to EPI).

 

People will be surprised by Episode II, and will be much higher on the public's acclaim. Episode III will be the big score in the series. Lucas will need to make it live up to fan expectations. And personally, I can't wait to see what happens to the Jedi Council. There's one comment from Sam Jackson that I'll never forget:

 

"Well...Supposedly, all the Jedi shoud be wiped out in the third film. I told George that if he does kill me off, I don't want to go out like some punk."

 

Not even Jackson knows what'll happen, but the man knows what he wants. '-)

 

Just remember than no new Star Wars media will ever have the same impact it did during the premier of the original trillogy. It's grown too big for that. But it doesn't mean that the new movies will be "poorer" by comparison.

 

EPII will rock the house, and send people flopping arse-over-tit to see it again.

[Vestril]

I just felt.. I don't know, that it was boring. The parts where they land on Tatooine and spend ages trying to get that part for their ship is SO mind numbing and yawn inducing that it ruins the whole movie for me. The fact that Jake Lloyd has to be the WORST child actor ever seen on the big screen doesn't help matters any. Jar Jar Binks and his idiotic things on screen were just an insult to anyone above six years of age.

 

I agree with most of what you say there, especially the fact that it was very boring through the middle, though I never had a problem with Jar Jar. The thing is that I agree with Wes, I always thought Episode 4 kind of lagged through the middle and I just accepted it... Jake Llyod wasn't THAT bad (ok...maybe he was =P)

 

Oh, and NJO RULES BABY!!!!! Lol, jk, but I do enjoy the series...

[Zek]

As for disappearing in order to become a ghost, as far as I can remember Vader/Anakin didn't disappear after Luke took his helmet off, and he still appeared briefly as a ghost at the end. It's not really our place to say that Morgan couldn't possibly appear as a ghost since the subject isn't mentioned at all in the movies. It's not like they're actually creating another embodiment(sp?) for themselves; if I recall correctly, they only appear to one person, so they might just be telepathically sending thoughts from beyond the grave or something. Nowhere is it mentioned that this is a Jedi-only skill, though maybe only Jedi can perceive it. It's also possible that Raven thought of this, and decided that Morgan is, in fact, force sensitive.

[Wes Janson SMR]

Not to mention that Kyle saw his pops at the Vally of the Jedi. Perhapse the high concentration of the Force had some influence.

[ChrisTheS]

The location a Jedi ghost can appear seems to be largely tied to an emotional locus, either a person or a place. In Morgan's case, both situations apply; Kyle and Ruusan; as the guardian of the secret of the Valley, he would have a high emotional tie to it, and thus his presence there is not to be wondered at.

 

And with regard to the presence of Jerec... a great deal of Jerec's history is expounded in the SWd20 Dark Side Sourcebook, in which it is stated that he is a member of the Imperial Inquisition (turned to the Dark Side by the High Inquistor Tremayne) and tasked with retrieving lost Jedi and Sith artifacts for the Emperor. Nowhere, in JK or the DSS, is it claimed that Jerec is one of the Sith; he is referred to as a Dark Jedi, and that's that. And since the Inquisition itself is canon, there is no contradiction to the canon.

[Creston]

Originally posted by Wes Janson SMR

People need to realize that trillogies work in systems. The first story is usually an introduction to the universe - which is what Episode I was. It introduced all the primary characters, and put them in a situation that moves the plot along for Episode II.

 

Think about this: how do you see Episode IV in the original trillogy? It's also essentially, an introduction. By the time Episode V adn VI came out, we already knew who the cast was, and we moved along pretty briskly - getting into more trouble and more action. By comparison, A New Hope was a little dry, boreing, and light-hearted compared to the latter two movies (akin to EPI).

 

 

 

The funny thing with Episode 1 was, that apart from Qui Gon and Amidala, really nobody needed to be introduced. We KNOW who Obi - Wan is, we KNOW who Anakin Skywalker is, we KNOW the whole Universe, probably better than George himself does , so I failed the see the need for all that yawning stuff.

 

And yes, I know what you mean with Ep4 in the original trilogy, but it STILL had some pretty spectacular stuff. Going into the death star, blowing it up, mos eisley, etc.

The thing with Ep4 was, George had NO idea if he was going to be able to make the trilogy, so it had to be catchy as a stand alone movie. He could hardly make a boring introduction movie that wouldn't get people to the theaters, because then he'd never be able to make the other two movies that he had just done the introduction for. He HAD to blow people away straight with Ep4. The fact that he then proceeded to blow everyone away AGAIN with Empire and Jedi was mere tribute to the man's movie making skills.

 

But with Ep 1, he KNEW he would make the whole trilogy, so it seems as if he forgot to make episode 1 at least a bit interesting. It's as if he figured "well, I can do a long drawn out boring intro, because the next two movies are secure anyways, so I'll leave everything for those two."

He redeems it a little in the end, with a spectacular lightsaber combat, but the rest of the movie is quite frankly just dull dull dull...

 

Creston

[RenScotson]

Hmm, this is sort of an interesting topic bout the lightsabers but from what I know it goes a little something like this...

 

The Green Lightsaber was Morgan Katarn's. As we know that was destroyed by Boc.

 

The Yellow Lightsaber was obtained from the fallen Yun. I imagine, after the defeat of Jerec, Yun was burned or buried with his lightsaber as most Jedi are (even Sith are). Although Yun was a dark jedi, he died just like Vader, on the light side I believe. *shrugs* Died for a good purpose thats for sure.

 

The Orange Saber is Mysteries of the Sith he probably crafted, that being his first personal saber... but from what I can tell that never happened. Mara Jade recieved futher training by Luke, how they sort of became romantically involved later on. But then I haven't read very much of the books. And if I'm not mistakened, he had a Red Saber at the end where Mara and Kyle sort of dueled... if I'm correct, he probably replaced the lightsaber crystal with a red, and after that destroyed it.

 

And from what I know, Adegan, Arthusian, or Ilium Lightsaber Crystals, don't simply die like a battery heh, although the batteries do need to be replaced like every year... would suck to have that die on you during the heat of a duel. The only purpose they have is refracting light into the lightsaber beam. A lightsaber from what I know is heatless, just burns into anything it touches *shrugs* What the description said in the RPG Core Rulebook heh.

 

The blue he probably crafted while in the Jedi Academy.

 

 

*SPOILERS AHEAD* (sorry don't know the thing to make it white colored yet, just started today )

 

 

I think Jedi Knight 2 really ends the series pretty well, if it is indeed the end... I wouldn't mind him finding the nasty Vuuzhun Vong. During all that madness, where in hell is Kyle? Hopefully we'll get some answers, cause I think because he is a light sider, but with some Dark Abilities (probably looses those later on but he could be strong enough to use both, like Mara Jade could)

 

I don't think Desann had nearly the power of Jerec, but it was awesome when I kicked his ass at the end... JK2 sort of ties into Dark Forces, I noticed. When you get to the suits of the Shadowtroopers, he's like, "Ah crap, not black armor again" and I think that hints at the Dark Trooper. Cortosis, having the ability to resist lightsabers, probably resists lasers pretty damn good too.

 

 

 

Think thats all I got to say for the moment. Hope I answered some question, hope someone straightens it out.

[RenScotson]

Ack, sorry for probably getting off topic... I only saw the one page. My bad

[Kurgan]

Np. ; )

 

We'll get back on topic, discussing "what is canon" is important in that it relates to DF series. If the only "canon" lightsaber colors are red, blue, and green for sabers, then MotS is in error, as is JK however I think it's been shown that this is irrelevant in that all of the DF series is "EU" and in the EU, as we know, there are many other saber colors besides these three.

 

Episode 2 discussion I'd like to avoid, however, it may touch on the issue of "sabers not working in water" which was what really bothered me in JK2 (since it was out of continuity with JK/MotS).

 

PS: Here's a nice site discussing sabers (note: it is NOT up to date as far as the new stuff from Attack of the Clones.. though some of it is hinted at):

 

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

 

In order to conceal spoilers, do this, use the

[ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ] tags (no spaces within the brackets).

[Wes Janson SMR]

Originally posted by Creston

 

 

 

The funny thing with Episode 1 was, that apart from Qui Gon and Amidala, really nobody needed to be introduced. We KNOW who Obi - Wan is, we KNOW who Anakin Skywalker is, we KNOW the whole Universe, probably better than George himself does , so I failed the see the need for all that yawning stuff.

 

Come on. Did you really know exactly who was who? Or what the hell was going on even before you've seen the movie? Man, you must be bored stupid when you watch movies. ;-)

 

But seriously, it's a whole different ballgame when you go back in time, as it were. You really don't know who Anakin is as a boy. You don't know his mother, you don't fully know about the Jedi council, about Yoda's roll, how Obi-Wan gets to train Anakin, how Palpatine moves up in the political chain - I could go on. There's a whole lot more to this movie than people want to believe. It is in fact an introduction to a new universe - because it's a universe 30-or-so years before the Empire and Rebellion. Come on. You can't seriously tell me you already knew the gist of things before hand.

 

And yes, I know what you mean with Ep4 in the original trilogy, but it STILL had some pretty spectacular stuff. Going into the death star, blowing it up, mos eisley, etc.

The thing with Ep4 was, George had NO idea if he was going to be able to make the trilogy, so it had to be catchy as a stand alone movie. He could hardly make a boring introduction movie that wouldn't get people to the theaters, because then he'd never be able to make the other two movies that he had just done the introduction for. He HAD to blow people away straight with Ep4. The fact that he then proceeded to blow everyone away AGAIN with Empire and Jedi was mere tribute to the man's movie making skills.

 

But with Ep 1, he KNEW he would make the whole trilogy, so it seems as if he forgot to make episode 1 at least a bit interesting. It's as if he figured "well, I can do a long drawn out boring intro, because the next two movies are secure anyways, so I'll leave everything for those two."

He redeems it a little in the end, with a spectacular lightsaber combat, but the rest of the movie is quite frankly just dull dull dull...

 

You are so very right when you say that EP4 needed to be a stand-alone movie. George didn't know if he'd be making the other eight movies after that. But the reason why parts of EP4 were boring is that people needed to be properly introduced to the universe. But back then, everything was brand-spakin' new. That made every boring and dry moment exciting. But now, really, look at EP4. It's dry compared to the other two.

 

And if you look - there's a plot gap in-between AND and ESB. What happened in-between the two movies? Certainly not Splinter of the Mind's Eye. ;-) But George didn't plan whole-heartilly for that.

 

EP1 is the set-up. I really don't think it was a boring movie at all. I found it intreaguing. I forced myself to get into the politics, and I found it pretty entertaining. Even in the so-called dry moments, I found myself just listening to the stories. Star Wars isn't all about 'Saber fights and starships - which is what people seem to think. If that's all you're looking for, I'm surprised you even like the other movies. And as far as action goes, EP1 had plenty of it.

 

And man, I wish people would just leave Jar-Jar alone. He was just fine in EP1. He had personality. I think people are ignorant when they compare him to be an ethnic representation or some other nonsense like that. Thank god no one's done that in this forum...

 

In any case, I guess EP1 wasn't what fans expected, because it's basically the set-up film for this trillogy. Fans expected non-stop action, blasters, 'Saber fights, and that's it. There's got to be substance to it all, and fans weren't expecting it. They just complain that the movie was too slow, and they totally ignore the substance and call it "dry and boring".

 

Episode II will rock your worlds, people. The set-up is complete.

[princessliar]

My bro had an interesting idea on the Morgan appearing as a ghost issue. He said that maybe the ghost is more of a metaphor - a representation of Kyle's conscience.

[Wes Janson SMR]

Whoa.... That's deep, man. ;-)

[Coran]

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on Episode 1 Wes. I agree with you mostly that since Ep1 was the 1st film of the new trilogy it started slower since it was setting up for the next 2 films but I think Lucas did a very poor job on casting.

 

First of all Jake Lloyd was a horrible actor! The first time I saw it was in theater and when he said, “I’m a person and my name is Anakin!” I just started laughing… people had to tell me to be quiet hehe. Back to my point, Jake never sounded half-decent, and it wasn’t just because he was small he just has no acting ability at all! The other problem was that Jake WAS simply too small. Its absurd to watch a kid that looks like he’s five destroy a giant droid control ship. Even if he is the “one” it is still cheesy even if he did do it on accident. Also to me it is disturbing to see a girl who looks like she is 18 hitting on a 5 year old! Yes, I know she is supposed to be like 14 and he 10 but neither of them look that age. It was so unrealistic to see this 5 yr old racing this pod at 600 mph and beating everybody. That midichlorian talk was pointless other than to explain that to the audience what midichlorians are. In fact it would have been fine if they didn’t explain them at all. The whole point of that was to get the point across that Anakin has more force potential than anybody else has ever had, even Yoda. We didn’t need to see another scene of Jake’s horrendous acting and seeing Jinn talk down to him like the baby that he is! Lucas should have gotten a different actor who was and looked much older, then all the incredible things he does wouldn’t look like so much BS. On a 1-10 scale I give Jake a 2.

 

The only steady, consistent actor was Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jinn. Liam Neeson did a perfect job of correctly portraying the dignity and power of a Jedi Master. His acting helped others look better themselves. Ewan McGregor wasn’t bad, but he wasn’t stellar either, he’s no Alec Guinness that’s for sure. However, I must say that he did do a good job portraying the correct relationship between Jinn and he, it was just the sort of relationship between a master and padawan that looked realistic to me. Ewan did shine in some places though I must admit. On a whole I’d give him an 8 in a 1-10 scale.

 

Natalie Portman did okay but she wasn’t that good. I give her a 7. She did decent for most of the movie but some lines she just completely botched.

 

Captain Panaka dude was fine.

 

When I first saw Ep1 and watched Jar Jar Binks and his %$#@^&* antics I cried. I broke down and sobbed. That night I cried myself to sleep. Jar Jar is an idiot. Lucas put Jar Jar in Ep1 and the new trilogy for some comic relief because Ep1 and most notably Ep2 and 3 are going to be the darkest movies in the series, even more so than ESB. All the Jedi are gonna get wiped out. Anakin turns evil, Padme dies, and all of the inhabitants of the galaxy are enslaved under the rule of the cruel, brutal empire. Millions die in the fight for freedom. Through this we need something to keep us laughing a little, we need something to lighten our spirits. In the old trilogy it was the droids, why can’t it be the droids again? Why did Lucas have to appeal to little children with Jar Jar’s dumb antics? He’s not funny he’s an idiot. (Jar Jar) While Jar Jar’s stupid antics will entertain the little kids it pisses off the adults, the original trilogy was geared toward adults, why should the new one be any different? In Ep4 Han calls Ben Kenobi some colorful terms. Those were not meant for the children… why is Lucas trying to appeal to new different people when he did just fine before, he would do better if he wrote these movies for the star wars fans, not little children. The old series had lighter moments to relieve some of the tension of the more exciting and dangerous parts of the movies, they were well done and they will need to be in Ep2 as well. Lucas used the droids well to relieve the tension, he should use them again. I agree we need some comic relief but does it have to stupid? Use the droids more. Ditch Jar Jar.

 

Not only was the casting poor but so was the script. There are many memorable lines in Ep4, the start of the old trilogy, why is there none in Ep1? “Mesa Jar Jar Binks, mesa your humble servant.” *curls up in a corner sobbing and continually muttering why? why?*

The script was down right poor in some places. Sometimes it wasn’t the actors who bad, it was what they said. Some of the story was so unoriginal it was pathetic. Was George smoking crack when he wrote this? The pod race was a blatant copy of Ben-hur and the virgin birth thing, what was the deal with that? Is Anakin supposed to symbolize Jesus or something, because last time I checked Jesus did not turn to the dark side.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Star Wars. I saw Ep1 4 times in theaters and there are parts that are decent. Darth Maul was awesome. The lightsaber duel was breathtaking. But Lucas spent too much time hiring actors that look exactly like their supposed to and not enough looking for raw talent. Sure, Natalie looks like Leia and Jake kinda like Luke but are they good actors? No. The action (which is why I mostly like Star Wars) in Ep1 was great but you just can’t substitute action for poor acting and for a poor plot line. The old trilogy’s special effects and duels can be somewhat cheesy but the acting IS there. Harrison Ford was phenomenal in his part and Carrie Fisher held her own. Mark Hammil wasn’t bad either. James Earl Jones was perfect as Darth Vader. Perfect. I always love it when he says, “I find your lack of faith disturbing.” Or “Asteroids do not concern me Admiral, I want that ship.” Or “Impressive…most impressive.” Or “It is pointless to resist my son.” The only thing was that they didn’t time his voice with Vader’s body motions right all the time. Sometimes he’ll be shaking his finger but he’s already finished talking. lol. The old trilogy had fantastic acting and a great, original storyline and script. As well as some of the most memorable lines in movie history ever. Ep1 had… good special effects.

 

The point is that you can’t substitute acting for anything. I don’t know why Lucas thought he could make a good movie without good actors. With Liam Neeson gone who in my opinion did the best acting job in Ep1 I can only hope Hayden is a good actor and Natalie has improved. But I’ll save my comments on Ep2 for another post:-) I apologize for the length of the post but I had to get this off my shoulders. I did not write this to flame anyone. I only wanted to give my take on Ep1 and this post is only my opinion.

[Wes Janson SMR]

Wow. You have some high standards.

 

Personally, I thought the acting was well enough. I didn't have much of a problem with the cast - including Jar Jar. I winced when I first heard Jake utter his first line in the movie, but then the kid grew on me.

 

On that note, have you seen the casting call snippets from the EPI DVD? It could have been a lot worse, believe me. Jake was fine in his role. The fact that he was so young and could accomplish those things made it all the more extraordinary.

 

Don't confuse Anakin with Jesus. I've seen too many people make that comparison. The story with Jesus is that Mary had born a child without original sin, or sex before marriage. Anakin's story is that his mother born him without a father. There could be any number of excuses for that - such as a Jedi indeed impregnated Shmi, but influenced her mind so that she would "forget" who the father is.

 

Anakin, Jesus, different.

 

And tell me where it says Padme dies? You might assume that, but please don't jump to conclusions. As far as the films go, they never said that the real Skywalker mother was dead.

 

And the Pod Race - yes, I agree. It's like one gigantic charriot race with engines instead of horses. To me, that made it all the more neat. Who else has done a charriot-type race besides Ben Hur, though? Originality is hard to come by these days. You do one thing, it's already been done in other movies. You should feel blessed that George didn't use Bullet Time in any of the scenes. ;-)

 

But man, I still can't see why people hate Jar Jar? It seems to me that people always try to find something wrong with a movie. I can remember Me, Myself, and Irene - a Jim Carry comedy about a dude with a split-personality. It suddedly turned controvercial that Jim would "stoop" to portray a person with such a "serious" problem.

 

And then Jar Jar sparked a whole new controversy about making fun of people of African ethnicity. God, I don't what that was about.... And then people say that Jar Jar was too kiddy-like, and that George had no right to put him there.

 

Let me tell you something. All of you (not picking on you, Coran). Lucas was incredibly excited about Jar Jar being in the movie. No one's done anything like Jar Jar - technical wise. And he jokingly said that Jar Jar would be the key to the movie. He loved him. And I could see why. I mean, he's a goofball, but an overall friendly character - unlike anyone else in the films. George flet that Jar Jar would bring a sence of relief and over-all character diversity to the film. I'm just sorry that people couldn't have kept an open mind, and embrace him as he was. Instead, most people reject him, saying that he doesn't belong in the Star Wars universe, much less the movie.

 

That's cold. Real cold. And being an author myself, I'm tempted to address those people with some colorful metaphors. But I don't, since everyone is entitled to their own oppinions.

 

Overall, I found myself accepting EP1 a lot better than most other people around here. But I know I'm not alone when I say that EP1 was a pretty good movie. Sure, it has its faults like any other movie. But I like it. Cast was just fine, acting was decent, pace was a little slow, but again, it's the first of a trillogy.

 

But if you really hate the acting, buy the DVD and watch it in Spanish with English subtitles. ;-)

[A'Gaeris]

Originally posted by princessliar

Not bad for an "old man", and after all, is was said that Jerec's powers "rivaled Vader's".

 

Yes, but who actually believes that fiddle faddle?

[Creston]

Originally posted by Wes Janson SMR

 

Come on. Did you really know exactly who was who? Or what the hell was going on even before you've seen the movie? Man, you must be bored stupid when you watch movies. ;-)

 

 

Despite what you seem to think Wes, Episode 1 really wasn't all that hard to figure out. As you see Palpatine (the emperor) pretty early on in the movies, then see the same guy being one of the government of the Naboo, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the whole reason the Trade Federation is picking on the Naboo in the first place is simply to create political unrest to allow for Palpatine to rise to power. Exactly HOW he does it is ofcourse almost impossible to predict, but in the end, episode one shows you two things :

1) How Anakin came to be Obi - Wan's apprentice,

2) How Palpatine rose to power.

That's pretty much it. Oh no, wait, Amidala is in there, but unless Episode 2 makes some drastic changes in what her character actually does and means, she's more of a sideplot rather than anything major. (As in, we already KNOW she gives birth to Luke and Leia, and we ALSO know that this will be AFTER Anakin turns to the Dark Side). If there's going to be any more to her character, I'll be surprised..

 

And as I said, we knew who Obi - Wan was, if only by virtue of trailers and seeing "Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan", we knew who Anakin Skywalker was, we know who Yoda is etc.

Making a two hour long introduction for these characters is hardly necessary. Qui Gon Jinn, on the other hand, hardly got any kind of introduction at all, and since he's the lead, that is also a little bit weird. But you relate to him THROUGH the fact that Obi-Wan calls him Master. If you hadn't know who Obi-Wan was, you wouldn't have had a CLUE who Qui Gon Jinn was supposed to be. Am I right?

 

 

 

But seriously, it's a whole different ballgame when you go back in time, as it were. You really don't know who Anakin is as a boy. You don't know his mother, you don't fully know about the Jedi council, about Yoda's roll, how Obi-Wan gets to train Anakin, how Palpatine moves up in the political chain - I could go on. There's a whole lot more to this movie than people want to believe. It is in fact an introduction to a new universe - because it's a universe 30-or-so years before the Empire and Rebellion. Come on. You can't seriously tell me you already knew the gist of things before hand.

 

I'm not saying that I knew EVERYTHING beforehand, but I AM saying that it wasn't hard to have puzzled quite a few things out by the time the Jedi and Amidala flee Naboo.

And no, we don't know how Obi-Wan comes to train Anakin, and how Palpatine rises to power, as those are the two things that this movie talks about. As for the rest... I don't really see them as all that vitally important. Did we EVER hear anything about Han Solo's history, or Luke's history etc in the original trilogy? It didn't make the characters any less believable or any less excellent for that matter. Episode 1 was 1 hour 30 minutes of introduction coupled with 30 minutes of good action. In my opinion, it would have done far better had it been the other way around, or at least a 50/50 split.

 

 

 

 

You are so very right when you say that EP4 needed to be a stand-alone movie. George didn't know if he'd be making the other eight movies after that. But the reason why parts of EP4 were boring is that people needed to be properly introduced to the universe. But back then, everything was brand-spakin' new. That made every boring and dry moment exciting. But now, really, look at EP4. It's dry compared to the other two.

 

No argument there. I never said that Ep4 was better than Empire or Jedi. It IS however, a far better introductory movie than Episode 1 is, and is, by itself (if you ignore quality of CGI etc) a better movie than episode 1. Episode 1 is at the bottom of the 4 movies (in my book), and it's quite a distance between it and number 3 (ep 4).

 

And if you look - there's a plot gap in-between AND and ESB. What happened in-between the two movies? Certainly not Splinter of the Mind's Eye. ;-) But George didn't plan whole-heartilly for that.

 

I don't really see what your point is and how it relates to our discussion? The reason there ARE gaps in the timeframe is that it would be unrealistic for the Rebellion to be able to go from nowhere to defeating the Empire in such a short timeframe. Also, if you don't allow time for the Rebellion to actually MOVE to Hoth, and then for the Imperial's probedroid to actually find them, you've got a tough time explaining the start of Empire

 

 

EP1 is the set-up. I really don't think it was a boring movie at all. I found it intreaguing. I forced myself to get into the politics, and I found it pretty entertaining. Even in the so-called dry moments, I found myself just listening to the stories. Star Wars isn't all about 'Saber fights and starships - which is what people seem to think. If that's all you're looking for, I'm surprised you even like the other movies. And as far as action goes, EP1 had plenty of it.

 

I actually beg to differ. Return of the Jedi was very little more than sabers and starships and blasters, and while I feel that Empire is a better movie than RotJ, that doesn't mean that I didn't think Jedi was an awesome spectacle to watch. Episode 1 could have done with a whole lot more sabers and starships, and it really would NOT have hurt the movie any. So if you only like Sabers and Starships, most of the original trilogy would have suited you just fine, especially Jedi.

As for the politics *shrug*. I see enough politics IRL, I don't especially need to see any in my movies , and the whole political aspect of the movie was easily figured out after seeing Palpatine as the Emperor (or Darth Sidious...) and then seeing him as one of the representatives of the Naboo government.

And even so, the political aspect of the movie wasn't all that prevalent, the whole desert scene was..

 

And man, I wish people would just leave Jar-Jar alone. He was just fine in EP1. He had personality. I think people are ignorant when they compare him to be an ethnic representation or some other nonsense like that. Thank god no one's done that in this forum...

 

*cough* personality *cough*

There's no accounting for taste

Kidding aside, WHAT did Jar Jar Binks add to the movie besides a TREMENDOUS amount of annoyance at :

A) His voice

B) The things he says (Mesa, Yousa, Whatcha )

C) The things he does ( )

 

Yes, he was there for comic relief. Unfortunately, the words comic relief mean you're supposed to find something funny about him, to take your mind off the generally depressing movie around it. Jar Jar Binks wasn't comic relief, he was Annoyance Torture Infliction ©.

And then for what you say later, how George defended Jar Jar Binks etc, simply in my mind goes to show how seriously weird he's getting. If 99% of all the people who saw your movie said that they thought the character was exceedingly crap, there really is nothing else to say but "Well, it was an experiment, it failed, no more Jar Jar Binks in the next movie".

As far as impressing people with CGI abilities, sorry, Jar Jar wasn't all THAT State of the Art anymore..

 

 

In any case, I guess EP1 wasn't what fans expected, because it's basically the set-up film for this trillogy. Fans expected non-stop action, blasters, 'Saber fights, and that's it. There's got to be substance to it all, and fans weren't expecting it. They just complain that the movie was too slow, and they totally ignore the substance and call it "dry and boring".

 

 

Episode4 was the setup film for the original trilogy, but people were a whole lot more thrilled about that than they were about episode 1, and Episode4 needed a whole lot MORE substance because it had a whole lot more to explain. 30 years difference aside, we all knew what a lightsaber was, and what the Old Republic was, and what a Jedi Knight was etc when we went to go see Episode 1.

I cannot say what fans expected, I think that after Return of the Jedi, expectations were probably too high for what was only the first movie in a new trilogy, but on the other hand, Wes, and not to rag on your or anything, the things you call "substance" ARE seen as dry and boring by a whole lot of people. That doesn't mean they ignore it, that doesn't mean they don't see it as substance, they just feel that it's dry and boring. You can introduce something in a stuffy, drawn out way, or you can introduce something in a "Woohoo, action time" way.

Funnily enough, Episode 1 starts off well, because straight from the start, the Jedi go onboard the Trade Federation flagship and instead of half an hour's worth of negotiations (movie time), only to then try to have them murdered, it simply skips the part that would have been tragically boring, and moves straight into the action.

As an author, you yourself should know this well. Start off with some action, to get your readers' attention.

But after that initial bit of action, there is literally an HOUR where the only thing that happens is the Pod Race. And yes, while it was funny, and quite entertaining, it does NOT redeem an hour's worth of Liam Neeson walking around in the desert talking to some CGI bug.

And yes, Anakin needed to be introduced, but let's get real here. Luke got a ten minute introduction in Episode 4. Han got zero, Leia got zero, Chewie got zero, Lando got about five, and they all got by FINE as characters. Did the little twerp really NEED an hour's worth of yammering to introduce him?

If that is substance to you, no problem, I just would have liked to have seen it packaged a little better.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but Star Wars IS blasters and sabers and spaceships. It's never been anything else. It's not called Space Opera for nothing

 

 

 

Episode II will rock your worlds, people. The set-up is complete.

 

As Kyle so famously said : We'll see.

 

 

To draw on a few things Coran said, I agree with the casting, as my hatred for anything called Jake Lloyd is by now well known. The kid didn't grow on ME, because he had nothing to grow. He had no acting talent, it didn't matter if he pretended to be angry or sad or whatever, because everything he said and did was delivered in the same monotonous drawl that he has, his face had only one expression no matter what was happening etc.

Now, we cannot expect every child actor to be as good as Haley Joel Osmond (that kid is FREAKY he's such a good actor), and we cannot expect an.. 8? 10? year old boy to deliver a world dazzling performance, but even Macauley Culkin did a better job in Home Alone, and he REALLY didn't have to do any acting.

 

It would perhaps have been a lot better, especially considering the fact that in Episode 2 Anakin is already a late teenager, to set the movie around a somewhat later timeframe in Anakin's life, such as when he was 13 or 14 or so. That would have allowed Lucas to screen a whole lot of far better actors, and you can easily get an 18 year old actor to look like a 14 year old guy.

Personally, I felt that Jake Lloyd looked and acted more like he was six.

Still, in hindsight everybody has twenty / twenty vision...

 

As for Ewan McGregor, I have to say I was somewhat surprised. You see, I have seen Ewan McGregor perform on stage in the UK, and he was just FABULOUS. I mean, we talk about the Royal Shakespeare Theater, he is right there at the top with all the other greats. So in a way, his kinda lackluster performance wasn't what I expected, but I think that perhaps it was partly him still discovering the character, and probably a larger part in that Obi-Wan really doesn't DO a whole lot in this movie. I expect that to change quite for the better in Episode 2.

 

Natalie Portman did what was asked of her, and she did a good job. Samuel Jackson.... Well... Let's say that I kinda already lost respect when I found out that he had almost literally begged Lucas for a role in his next star wars series (trying to add fame to your name so you can finally win an Oscar Samuel?) and I just thought he looked more like an extra than anything else. Perhaps that's just his character though. He's a great actor, but he's more well suited to flamboyant and passionate characters, and not this dry Jedi Stuff. Ian whatchamacallum was excellent as Palpatine. I really like him, I already liked him in the five minutes he was in Jedi, and I liked him here.

 

So all in all, except for Jake Lloyd, which was a VERY tragic mistake, I did kinda agree with the casting. As for the rhetoric and the script, I agree with Coran 100%. I really missed some fun one liners such as Han and Leia used to make. (You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought! )

 

Here's hoping George will make good on his mistakes in Episode 2.

 

Creston

Sorry for the excessive length (I'm bored )

[Kurgan]

Previous candidate:

 

Leia (ESB): I don't know where you get your delusions, LASER BRAIN!

 

New Winner:

 

Jar Jar: EXQUUUUUUEEEEEEEZE ME!

 

Party on Wayne! Party on Jar Jar....

; p

 

He was such an embarrassing and annoying character. His closest counterpart was Wicket the Ewok, but unlike our pal Wicket, he had about 100x the screentime (since he was in all of the movie, and not just the third act). Plus, the ewok spoke his own language (yub yub!) instead of speaking like a Walt Disney sidekick character (designed to elicit giggles from small children).

 

I can understand George wanting comic relief, but did we really need this "Goofy" wannabe? (with apologies to Goofy fans)

 

The story with Jesus is that Mary had born a child without original sin, or sex before marriage. Anakin's story is that his mother born him without a father. There could be any number of excuses for that - such as a Jedi indeed impregnated Shmi, but influenced her mind so that she would "forget" who the father is.

 

Anakin, Jesus, different.

 

Actually, now we're getting the other side confused. It used to be people would say "Anakin was an imaculate conception." The IC of course referred to Mary being conceieved without original sin. As we all know, that's not true of Anakin, since he does a lot of sinning later on in his life (without original sin, according to doctrine, there's no real tendancy to sin in a person).

 

Now it doesn't ever say in the movie that Shmi is a VIRGIN (ie: has never had sexual intercourse) but it does say "there was no father" so barring any test tube experiments or artificial means, it means that Anakin's conception was somehow miraculous. It's about as close as you can get to Jesus's birth, without having angels announce it etc. Jesus was born of a virgin, according to the New Testament. (True, Jesus doesn't have original sin either, since it's thought to be inheirited)

 

Notice that both Jesus and Anakin appear to fulfill prophecy with their miraculous births. Both are recognized early on by religious elders (Qui Gon Jinn / John the Baptist) etc.

 

However, Anakin is a kind of "Anti-Christ" since he falls away from goodness and becomes its opposite in the evil figure of Darth Vader. He becomes a murderer and persecutor of his faith order. Though he's redeemed through the sacrifice of his son (the conflict dualism model is prevelant in all of Star Wars).

 

Incidentally, I attended a conference in Chicago this month wherein that was the topic of my presentation, was quite fun (not just that, but a lot of Star Wars related stuff). Nobody objected to that analysis.

[Creston]

Actually, there have been SO MANY stories and films written and made about prophecies and "The One" who will come to fullfil the prophecy that it wouldn't surprise me at all that there are certain writers who simply use the prophecy part without ever realising they are referring to the life of Christ...

 

I'm not sure if George Lucas is religious, there seem to be religious themes in his movies (such as The Force etc), it could very well be however that he just thought that up without ever thinking of Jesus Christ.

 

Who knows, probably only George himself, and HE likes Jar Jar Binks, so his opinion is very suspect

 

Creston

[Wes Janson SMR]

Sithspawn! That's a long post! I'm at school, so I'll have to read and rebutt later. ;-)

[Coran]

On a good note I've heard rumors that Jar Jar is a senator in Ep2 and he'll only be in a few parts of the movie.

 

Another thing that worries me though is how Lucas was going to have N'sync in Ep2 as minor Jedi characters in the backround until he got a horrendous number of emails from SW fans telling him that if he did it he would alienate all the true SW fans. What is Lucas thinking? Also I've read the main plot line of Ep2 from theforce.net and Anakin sounds like a really weak character. Hopefully Hayden is a good actor, I don't know anything about him. I totally had my own perception of what he would be like and why he turned, I thought I learned these things from some book but I don't remember... I've gotta do my homework so I'll save my opinion and thoughts of why Anakin turned for another post sometime:-)

[Darwin11]

Wait till I'm done before flaming..

 

JarJar isn't that bad of a character..

 

BUT his portrayal in ep1 was mostly useless. You can cut all the toilet humor and useless-to-the-plot bufoonery, and I can see what George probably saw in the cahracter. But they just overdid it, gave JarJar completely unnecessary scenes "Icky Poo!" And generally ruined it. =P

[estarriol]

George Lucas and Starwars there is absolutly no way that he can be wrong

 

Sorry, but as a rabid StarWars fan that's only just coming back into fandom after an extended time away since the absolute farce that were the special editions + episode one nearly spoiled the entire thing for me I've got to beg to differ here.

 

To me the EU is now StarWars canon. I am treating George Lucas like a senile uncle. Sure, I'll humour him, but damned if I believe a word that he says from here on in.

 

I don't care that he made the original three movies (on ideas that he stole from other people anyway), his abysmal remakes and the dismal failure that was episode one totally strips him of any kind of status in my eyes.

 

Add onto that the sheer nerve that he has to either personally authorise or allow his company authorise the works that compose the EU and then go and trash portions of those said works whilst editing the original trilogy and making episode one (eg: crowds pulling down an emperor statue on Coruscant when it's said in the books that the Empire covered up his death to stop exactly those type of things from happening) and I'm not exactly over the moon with his efforts lately.

 

Lucas can go on making his new kiddy movie trilogy. That's just fine. I'll be the one not taking it seriously, sitting back waiting for the architects of the EU to pick the decent stuff out of the schmaltz, shine it up, then construct (in conjunction with each other, rather than steamrolling over the top of past works) something worthy of notice from it.

 

um, oof? geez, consider my spleen vented

 

hi everyone, i'm est and i'm a starwarsaholic.

 

est.