E-Mail from an employee of RavenSoft (unofficial patch information)

[BIGBrother]

I'm pushing for a game

modifier that makes it so you have to play as either a Jedi (saberonly &

force powers, no guns or pick-ups) or non-Jedi (guns only and pick-ups, no

saber or force powers).

 

mmmm, maybe a teamplay, objective based mod with Jedi (no guns, force) versus Imperial (guns, no force).

 

drool...

[RabidPlatypus]

seriously, play the jedi master mode and you'll see how badly a person with force whoops people. In jedi master mode when I am jedi all I use is heal, push, pull, jump, and its easy to just own those gunners. I could easily make it so I have those force powers in a new guns vs. saber game mode and there would be no competition.

[Emon]

That's awesome! I love how Meestar Grummelt actually listens to the players. It's like for once, a company has realized, "Whoa, wait a minute! The fans are the ones who play the game and give us money! We can make like a game FIFTY times better if we listen to them!" I wish LEC had done that, instead of having the, "Fans and customers don't know anything, when do they play the game?" Additude.

 

In conclusion, Michael Grummelt is god.

[lukeboy]

The only thing for gun needing to be tweak again is fire rate of reapeater alt fire.

If raven does that you guys mention above,no one will play a gun in JO .

Gunner can't use force 'Gunner can't use saber 'Gunner can't run as fast as saberist 'Gunner can't have any weapon more powful than saber'Gunner's gun can be cut by saber. back speed must be slowed down..............etc

 

Who wants to play a gun in JO?

JO is a starwars game not meaning that player only can be a jedi with a god damn good saber.

 

The most problem is saberist can't defend the alt fire of reapeater most time though we can push back the blast ammo of reapeater sometimes, the fire rate makes pushing back hard.

 

I am light side saberist too,but I can pull the gun off , i can push the rocket back , I am the no.1 in the server i played most time and I always wield my saber.

 

The only thing I feel unbalanced is alt fire of reapeater and drainwhore with annoying lighting or grip. but I won't get myself stuck in a guy always drain without fighting,I just leave him alone,don't need to commit suiside when my force all drained .

Find others and get my frags.

 

Concern your skill , and don't compliant about something makes you lose but seems fine to others

[Mattman]

I do think that if the force is taken away from gunners, there should be something else to compensate. Someone on this boards mentioned a jetpack in another post, I think that'd be a good start. I'd be like force jump, but with an extra element of control, such as slowed falls, and extra steering. Basically, it'd be cool if it worked like the jetpack in Shadows of the Empire. Also maybe a sort of netgun or stungun that'd be similar to force push.

 

Also, if I read the Raven guy's letter correctly, I believe he said that jedi would have no pickups at all. As in, no health, shields, ect. That'd be pretty balancing in itself, I think.

[Zek]

I'm split on the gun issue. 2 observations:

 

1.) The only weapon that is really overpowered is the repeater alternate fire. The projectiles are much too fast to reliably push away, and they fire out in relatively quick succession. There's no good counter to it.

 

2.) The rest of the guns are fine, except for what seems to be an oversight... Explosives win the FFA games, 9 out of 10 times. No matter how fancy your saber swinging is, someone who throws an explosive or two into every crowd he sees gets the high score and wins. 1 on 1 a saberist can win against most guns, but the only place that happens is in Duel mode, where there aren't guns anyway. As it is, a dedicated saberist will have an extremely hard time reliably winning FFA games, and I don't think that's how it's intended.

[lukeboy]

Originally posted by Zek

I'm split on the gun issue. 2 observations:

 

1.) The only weapon that is really overpowered is the repeater alternate fire. The projectiles are much too fast to reliably push away, and they fire out in relatively quick succession. There's no good counter to it.

 

2.) The rest of the guns are fine, except for what seems to be an oversight... Explosives win the FFA games, 9 out of 10 times. No matter how fancy your saber swinging is, someone who throws an explosive or two into every crowd he sees gets the high score and wins. 1 on 1 a saberist can win against most guns, but the only place that happens is in Duel mode, where there aren't guns anyway. As it is, a dedicated saberist will have an extremely hard time reliably winning FFA games, and I don't think that's how it's intended.

 

That's what I say...

[Guest Sifl]

Don't know what you gun-runners are getting so excited about. If you read the Raven guy's reply, the jedi vs. non-jedi thing is a modification, like saberonly. They're not going to permanently change multiplayer to always be that way, that would be stupid.

[Necro]

thank you ascari for the information and more so to Chang for the reply (and so fast too!!)

[n0th1ng]

wish they would fix the heavy stance (red sabre mode) as well..too powerful atm not to mention the unblockable special with red mode

[Canis_Aureus]

Originally posted by Ascari

Well, we haven't 100% decided on what, exactly, we are and aren't going to try to do in any patch...

 

I do agree that sabers feel to weak against guns, I'm pushing for a game modifier that makes it so you have to play as either a Jedi (saberonly & force powers, no guns or pick-ups) or non-Jedi (guns only and pick-ups, no saber or force powers). I think that would go a long way towards balancing those kinds of integrated games.

 

And, I agree, that big guns should slow you down and that you should run slower when running backwards.

 

We also plan on tweaking the force drain, force grip and force heal powers.

 

Ahhh that is so nice. KEEP PUSHING MICHAEL! This sounds just so damn awesome and is just what I have been hoping they would do... so although this isn't 100% yet - it's still nice

 

A patch with those features would fix the game balance and improve the gameplay so much.

[Canis_Aureus]

Originally posted by n0th1ng

wish they would fix the heavy stance (red sabre mode) as well..too powerful atm not to mention the unblockable special with red mode

 

It's not really a problem. That move is easy to avoid and after the attack is finished they will still be vulnarable for a short period where they cannot parry. BUT the unblockable attack should be fixed I agree.

[Trienco]

unblockable doesnt mean you cant evade it. see heavy stance and he's coming for you DONT just stand there. the only problem i have with it is my connection. sometimes he misses by meters or just started to move and you die (at least sometimes it works the other way round too *g*).

 

regarding the saber-gunner mod. where's the prob? imagine boba fett instead of stormtroopers and they would have a couple of substitutes. jetpack-jump, flamethrower-lightning, rope-pull (or rope-grip lvl1)... push and pull: limit the range or still give them a few points in push/pull so they can defend against it.

 

they cant heal, but they can use medpacs, bacta and stuff. also they never have to come close to a jedi while he cant do anything from a mile away. the only concern is that a dozen of boba fett like guys running is around is quite unlikely (but so is a dozen of jedi running around, so who cares).

 

so i will just hope they do it that way and i wont have to do an obi-wan vs. jango mod *lol*

 

btw. to whoever wanted to be forward-strafing to be faster then normal movement: thats no feature, just the thing you get if you use a square instead of a circle.

they just forgot that something like:

if fwd {pos.x+=player.speed}

if lft {pos.y+=player.speed}

will cause a movement of sqr(speed*speed+speed*speed) instead of just speed.

 

today you dont have to worry about a square root more or less so they can do it right. and i think everbody working on a commercial game should be shot for the 'old way' *lol*

[Lord Slart]

Good news for all. Thanks.

 

One point I could make is about absorb. I think the best way to deal with this would be to remove the blue shroud when it's on but show it if the force is used on the player. That way you wouldn't know it was there until you used the force on that player and wouldn't know if they turned it off without using more force again. Risk verses reward. Someone already mentioned something similar but I thought I'd expand on it with my thoughts.

[Canis_Aureus]

Yes I agree Lord Slart... they really need to remove the blue glow when using absorb.

 

Here's my idea.

 

- When hit by force effects you will glow blue to show that absorb blocked it... but people will have to actually hit you with force effects before they know if you have absorb on or not.

- Absorb should also give you force power when hit by draín. That would help alot on the drain problem for light jedis.

 

But to be honest I would rather see that drain actually drained health and the dark jedi used that to heal instead. Perhaps the damage could be weak but bypass any shielding.

[D66]

/me shakes head in a disapointed fasion

 

Have we learned Nothing from Tribes 2?

 

Petition for gameplay changes on a game you enjoy and you just might get them

 

Remember Tribes 2, So many game play changes to placate the "Disk is too powerfull" "sniper is too powerfull" "Vehicles are too powerfull" People That the game is absolutly boring now...

 

Rather, Ask Raven to adress the functional issues first.... The game play prefrences can be done with MODs and the Editing comunity would be on the ball If Raven would release the SDK...

 

What we do need are fixes for the g_forcepowerdisable bug, Dedicated Servers that arn't showing on the masterlist (Lynksys)

The Saber-lock bug (Which was adressed)

and a couple other minor flaws.

 

On the positive side... The fact that he is even mentioning the creation and distrobution of a Mod by Raven means that they plan to throw Tons of support behind this game... CHEERS to that...

 

But Beware of the Tribes2 Curse!!!

[Kurgan]

And though not an official response, I'd like to reiterate that I think the idea of "big guns slowing you down" is actually quite UNrealistic.

 

Think about it. Kyle carries a dozen heavy weapons, but only when he pulls out a "big" one, he slows down? Strange. I would think that simply HAVING all those weapons would slow him down, not the act of holding one!

 

At least the email made it clear that the changes he was in favor of would mostly be in the form of OPTIONS.

 

I'm all in favor of fixing bugs and adding new options, but less enthusiastic about changing the game to make it more "realistic" or "movie-like" (since those are loaded terms anyway, depending on who you talk to). Mysteries of the Sith is a good example of the use of options. There are a variety of game modes, and nobody is forced to play just one way. While balance is pretty good, people still complain, and so they have the option to not use certain things, or play on certain levels that lack certain features they don't like or feel comfortable with.

 

And I agree with the above poster, some people will never be satisfied (remember all the whining in <fill in the blank FPS> game?). I would rather see quality editing tools/documentation released before a lot of the gameplay "tweaks."

 

Now one might say it hardly matters what I think, since they are the devs, not me, but then again, if it's really fan feedback they're listening to, well, there you have it. ; )

[Admiral Jerrodd]

Tribes2 curse? What are you talking about? Sometimes weapons get tweaked for the sole reason to make a game accesable for all.. not a small group who overuse an overpowered weapon all the time.

 

It's the basic essence of tweaking, listening to the community and implementing the right changes to make it enjoyable and accesable, and not frustrating because an "elite few" screw the gameplay for others.

 

 

 

..And yes, I know bloody well enough things about weapon tweaking and the community input - coming from the dod community.

[T-Dogg]

Hope they release a patch soon... the SP experience isn't quite perfect either. See my post entitled "Entities error" to see what I mean. It's a real nasty problem, 'cause it prevents me from progessing in the game.

[Kurgan]

And that's another thing.. about the complaining. The whole "overuse" thing is not a balancing issue per se.

 

Let's say that its like some people are wishing for.. the saber is the ultimate weapon, and the Jedi is the most powerful character, bar none.

 

Now we have people overusing sabers and force, to the deteriment of those who wish to use guns and role play gun fighters from Star Wars.

 

What then?

 

It's the same problem anyway you look at it. The fact is, if you make something useful, players who wish to win, will use it to their advantage. Now I'm not saying make one weapon so good that nobody will use anything else (then why have other weapons?), just that you can't simply take "overuse" as a reason to remove something. In fact, it may be that people use it because they like it, and changing/removing it may cause people's enjoyment of the game to go down.

 

It's not the over-users (people keep using the term "whore" which really gets on my nerves, am I a "whore" for using a tactic that people refuse to adapt to?) who need to be punished, by making all of their favorite tactics useless. Again, balancing issues aside, simply making a saber user more powerful than a gun user will not stop the whining, I think you'll just have different people complain. Nobody likes to lose, but then if people try to force everyone to play their way (following their honor code, not using weapons they consider "cheap" etc) then the fun dwindles.

 

Rather the better way is to provide options to allow people to customize their gameplay experience to an extent, so that the saber-only people can have their fun, and the people who like guns and sabers, can play (incidentally both options are already in the game).

 

Anyway, somethings to think about. It's up to Raven/LEC. ; )

[Ascari]

U said that if u adjust the weapons a bit the saber becomes the best weapon in the game?

 

The way it is now the gun users have a huge advantage over saber users. Balancing this will not make the guns useless.

 

Personally I like playing in normal FFA games. There is a lot more diversity then in Saber only games.

[Zek]

Kurgan, if you think weakening the explosive weapons a bit will make everyone use sabers, you are very sorely mistaken. I was very surprised to discover how many people will use the regular blasterfire weapons, even against good saber users; pull their weapons and they'll shoot at you with the bryar. The concept of using the saber just disgusts them, even if they don't have an overpowered gun. It makes me sad every time I crouch down with my saber and get the other person to kill themselves with their repeater or even bryar(has happened a number of times).

 

Right now, if you want to win an FFA game, you'll use one of the explosive guns. Saber using is an option, just an inferior one. This is the issue that has to be fixed; sabers don't have to be stronger, they should just be an equally viable(or maybe better and just harder to master) option.

 

 

As for the Jedi vs Gunners game mode... It sounds good in concept, but it won't work. Go play a Jedi Master game, and see just how well a pure gunner(hell, a group of them in one team) can do against a saber and force user. Granted, the Jedi Master has 3 in every force power, but you can get pretty close to maxing out the powers you use most in a full force game.

[Sartis]

Personally I like the idea of classes, I just don't find it right that someone without saber defend/offense has more force powers than me and can kill me 10x farther away then I can kill him, thats not balanced at all lol.

 

Anyways from the email sounds good so far

 

And a Jedi vs Gunner will be good, why? Jedi's actually have a chance now, Right now as it is Gunners just have to have Force jump/speed/pull/push/healing/absorb and they are pretty formidable. Take away those forces and they are just a guy with a gun, vs a guy with some tricks. And I'm sorry but the power of some of those weapons by themselves even it out vs Jedi

[Ascari]

Well, maybe some modification would be very nice.

 

Like bountyhunters vs. jedi's where the bountyhunters have jet backs etc. ( not my own idea, someone else posted it, I cant remember who )

 

But such modification's would be awesome.

Since playing Boba Fett is as much fun as playing a Jedi, this is very important if u want to have 2 balanced teams.

[TheDarkSide]

As for the Jedi vs Gunners game mode... It sounds good in concept

 

I think people are mistaking having to choose sides as a Jedi or a gunner, or just having to choose what class you are going to be. I.E. CTF, Team FFA won't be force to be all jedi vs all gunners, it's just an option you pick on your configuration screen when you spawn into a new server...light, dark or gunner only. So you'll have a mix on each side, some jedi and some gunners versus the same on the other side.

 

Jedi master mode points out the faults of having one uber jedi vs all nons, but with a mix on each side, I think it would be darn movie like (I think I hear the anti-fanboys gasping). Example Ep I when Obi wan and Qui gon start dueling with Maul. All the non force participants scamper off to let the Jedi get down to work...Jedi vs Jedi, gunners vs gunners....