MankaCat Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by 7-7ighlander I *think* I´ve done the butterfly in SP when trying to do the medium hackdown special. Try the medium hackdown special some times with different timing of keys and check it out. I think I've seen this too but it comes off as more of an aerial (no-hands cartwheel) then a butterfly kick. some times you do the medium slashdown move and don't jump very high and don't slash, and just flip over their head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by grandmasterlee Wes- Darth Maul is played by the first actor in the Star Wars series to actually be a martial artist. He's the same guy that plays the toad in X-men, he's badass. For Shaolin (and Wushu) devotees the butterfly kick is a walk in the park, its too bad we can't do it in game though sorry. Bob Anderson (the sword master for Ep4 and Highlander and more movies than i can count) was in the Vader suit for the Obi/Vader scene. (you couldnt see out the mask so well so they wanted someone who knew it by rote so it would look right) at then time he was IIRC a Yodan in Kendo and a Nidan in Iai, as well as having once been a A rated fencer in the early 60's. all that silly spin flip kick things that Maul does would get you killed rather fast with real swords. (slow down the DVD sometime and look at the number of places Obi-wan could have simply steped in an skewered Maul. Shaolin and Wushu are very interesting styles but lightyears behind the Japanese when it comes to sword work. -------------------------- one-cut-no-intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MankaCat Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 I disagree japanese sword styles are rigid and ponderous too many people take showy wushu DEMONSTRATION moves as traditional combat moves chinese sword styles are a lot more fluid and quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UseDaAgression Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 We should just put it to a close, anyone who thinks they have done it most likely did the backwards stab for medium. When i tried out the backwards stab in multi i was convinced it was the butterfly untill i did it again and saw my feet remained on the ground so we should let this butterfly thing R I P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Darth Maul was the first Star Wars dude to do the move. End of story on that. I'm not here to debate which Martial Arts is "superior". I've been studying quite a few, and honestly, most of them are deadly to anyone who's skilled enough. But the most important thing that I've learned is that it's best to cross-train, not devote myself to one particular art. The more I can learn from one style, the better I'll do if someone attacks me (and I've successfully fought off four gang members using nothing more than a broomstick, and my knowledge from weapons training in traditional Karate). Just keep in mind that Lightsabers and useage of the Force throw 'Saber Duels into a whole new ballgame. The Lightsaber is a very interesting weapon, where as any contact with it could spell doom. And with the aid of the Force, Jedi can see the blows coming a split-second in advance. So when two skilled Force-weilding Duelists have it out, the match can last for several minutes - 'Saber striking against 'Saber. It becomes less a match of "who'll make the first mistake" and it trancends into a match of "who can strike fast enough to prevent the other Jedi from reacting quickly enough". Qui-Gon saw his end before Maul impaled him. In the real world, Lightsaber battles would last for several seconds - maybe a minute or two at most. Fights with real swords aren't like in the movies (clash against clash). Matches are usually short and sweet - the man who makes the first mistake loses his life. The closest thing I can compare 'Saber fighting to is a spin on fencing. Fencing matches can last pretty long, because the two combatants defend strikes until they see an opening. Add in the ability to read your opponent's move, and you have a stand-off. Then the trick turns into a game of very fast movements, trying to stike fast enough to break through your oponent's already-going-into-place defeses. 'Saber fighting is a beutiful art, confined to the Star Wars universe. Mechanics are vastly different beacuse of the use of the Force - which allows Jedi to do things they wouldn't normally do: eg, the Butterfly. And I'll say this again, Darth Maul was the first to do this in the movies. Any other point is moot, really. To the fans, this move is his in the Star Wars universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmasterlee Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 No Sartori, Darth Maul was played by Ray Park. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0120915 There's the link on imdb. He was a wushu dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 1. The guy who directed the sword fighting in Episodes 4-6 was Sir Alec Guniess, aka Obi-Wan. He was actually Knighted, so you can imagine he'd know about sword fighting. That's why all the saber battles in EP4-6 are Europeon hacks and slashes. 2. Darth Maul was played by Ray Park, some Scottish martial artist. He did all the sword fighting choreography for EP1, and no doubt he's going to do it for EP2-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'akt Sangwar Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 erm wth just cos ure knighted doesnt mean u know about swords :s but i find that pretty funny and ray park isnt scottish im pretty sure he is from down south sumwhere he didnt sound scottish to me i saw him at sum signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'akt Sangwar Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 yipes he is scottish thats a surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nax Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Emon> I thought that was Nick Giliard who did the choreography for Ep 1. And I'm pretty certain Alec Guniess didn't do the fight choreography in the original trilogy. The swordfighting in ep 4-6 is more of a japanese style than any sort of fencing (a lot more centered). Nax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by MankaCat I disagree japanese sword styles are rigid and ponderous too many people take showy wushu DEMONSTRATION moves as traditional combat moves chinese sword styles are a lot more fluid and quick you have no idea what you are talking about. what you see as "rigid and ponderous" is efficiency. no wasted motion. the first mistake is your last. the chinese styles create many many maai (openings) that are easily exploited. The formality you see in kendo is a traditional ceremony and does not reflect the more dangerous combative arts. It’s the difference between the “sport” of Kendo and the practical application of real technique. Much the same as modern western fencing has moves whose sole purpose is to “turn on the lights” and would be useless with real steel i have spared with quite a number of "wushu" practitioners, and while i will not judge a style solely on their ability (or lack there of) the speed with which they got hit was rather silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by Emon 1. The guy who directed the sword fighting in Episodes 4-6 was Sir Alec Guniess, aka Obi-Wan. He was actually Knighted, so you can imagine he'd know about sword fighting. That's why all the saber battles in EP4-6 are Europeon hacks and slashes. 2. Darth Maul was played by Ray Park, some Scottish martial artist. He did all the sword fighting choreography for EP1, and no doubt he's going to do it for EP2-3. nope that’s fan boy fiction and they are not “European hacks and slashes” there is a good portion of several Kendo kata in the engagement between Obi and Vader. But the sublties of real sword play (changes of engagement, offering of maai etc) don’t play as well to the “kung-fu” theater types so…we get Chinese style sword work in later episodes, More flashy but less effective. Bob Anderson did all the sword choreography Sean connery is knighted as is Paul McCartney. that’s a title and has absolutely nothing to do with sword play Originally posted by grandmasterlee No Sartori, Darth Maul was played by Ray Park. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0120915 There's the link on imdb. He was a wushu dude. Duh. Read my post again. I was disagreeing that Ray Park was the FIRST martial artist to be used in a SW film. Last time I checked Kendo, Iaido and even western fencing fall under the title of “martial arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmasterlee Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Gotcha, I didn't realize I said he was the first martial artist to appear in the star wars films implying that kendo etc were not martial arts. My mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AciDHeLL Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Those moves are two different moves in the animations. One is a butterfly kick (the one that the red shadowtrooper does) and one is a butterfly twist (the one that the stormtrooper does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Yeah. I think there are three or four different animations for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by grandmasterlee Gotcha, I didn't realize I said he was the first martial artist to appear in the star wars films implying that kendo etc were not martial arts. My mistake np mon, just I'm a big fan of Bob's work and like to give him credit whenever possible. -------------------------------------- the moon, the cold stream like a mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitecrew Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 one of the only living ninja masters is scottish. scots can fight too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by Emon 1. The guy who directed the sword fighting in Episodes 4-6 was Sir Alec Guniess, aka Obi-Wan. He was actually Knighted, so you can imagine he'd know about sword fighting. That's why all the saber battles in EP4-6 are Europeon hacks and slashes. 2. Darth Maul was played by Ray Park, some Scottish martial artist. He did all the sword fighting choreography for EP1, and no doubt he's going to do it for EP2-3. Wow. This is the dumbest post I have seen to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by Tree Wow. This is the dumbest post I have seen to date. Heeheehee.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MankaCat Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by Sartori you have no idea what you are talking about. I could say the same thing modern wushu is a performance sport and that's like saying "I can beat up a figure skater or ballerina" and I didn't say kendo, I said japanese sword arts I know a bit about Kenjutsu and Iajutsu thank you very much and your 'efficiency' can be translated as "predictable, straightforward, and frighteningly easy to parry" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MankaCat Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by AciDHeLL Those moves are two different moves in the animations. One is a butterfly kick (the one that the red shadowtrooper does) and one is a butterfly twist (the one that the stormtrooper does). wow good thing you said this because I totally didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFallMyriad Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 I made a post a few days ago that I think deserves attention but got little. First of all no, I don't know how to do these moves, but what I think would be cool is if someone (possibly Raven??) were to incorporate these moves as "dodge" moves. I used to play UT all the time and to activate the dodge, you would double tap your strafe keys. ie. Dodge forward was "forward+forward" etc... So with this in mind, a possible set up could be: Butterfly: "dodge" forward Butterfly Twist: "dodge" backwards Cartwheel left/right: "dodge" left/right Course that leads into all sorts of other different things you could be doing with the saber at the same time, like attacking and such, which I think would add even more control to this already incredible game. No one can deny that the acrobatics in JO are what make this game really shine, so why not capitolize on a good thing? Just an idea, but I think having these moves as dodge moves would be cool and easy to execute with the double tap. Comments? Suggestions? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think it could work. There would of course have to be a "cool down time" between consecutive uses, or maybe even have it depending on stance? Blue - Chain up to three Yellow - Chain up to two Red - Once shot per They would look like handsprings, it'd be truly awesome. Here's proof that people wouldn't spam it: you don't see people spamming the other acrobatics. Sure they use them, but not constantly. The roll is easy, effective and no one seems to smap it. Also, there would be obvious penalties for using them. You might get out of the way faster, but during that time you might be more vulnerable, or if you were attacking with it it might do less damage. I seriously think it could work, but being only a gamer and having no mod skills whatsoever, I am helpless to prove my thesis. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I really don't think it will be that big an issue with the double-tap. Again, take UT. Everyone is dodging all the time in that game and it doesn't make a huge difference to the gameplay. People don't complain about it because after awhile it gets predictable. If your going to use the same heavy stance overhead swipe over and over, people will start to learn how to counter it every single time. The same will come with this. I never said that there wouldn't be disadvantages to constantly butterflying. There will have to be obvious disadvantages, but I'm leaving it up to the community (or hopefully Raven) to decide what those should be. Should you be able to attack while butterflying? Should you be able to defend or parry? Should you even be allowed to use force attacks? These are all valid ideas, and I don't think they should be ignored simply based on the fact that some people will abuse them. If Raven had based the game on that mentality, we wouldn't have heavy stance, grip, drain, heal, push, pull and all the other things that make this game incredible. I just think that a double-tap method would be an excellent way to utilize the up-until-now unusable acrobatic moves in the near future. With any luck, even in the next patch. Besides, as soon as people find out how they can be used, if what you say is true, they will start to spam those moves regardless of how its done. Likely they'll be binded. I think everyone should be able to use them with exacting control and liquid motion just as the wallwalk, kickflip and sideflip are easy to manage. If you can think of an easier way to implement these moves into the game, I'd be very interested in hearing it Anyway, I just think it would be a very cool implementation of these hidden (thus far anyway) moves. PLEASE don't tell me people would spam them because I'm sick of hearing that. If you really believe that, then why are we trying to find out how to do them in the first place if not to use them? This just seems, to me anyway, like a practical way to utilize them should it come up. And I'm sure it will because no one seems to have left this topic alone. So let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by MankaCat I could say the same thing modern wushu is a performance sport and that's like saying "I can beat up a figure skater or ballerina" and I didn't say kendo, I said japanese sword arts I know a bit about Kenjutsu and Iajutsu thank you very much and your 'efficiency' can be translated as "predictable, straightforward, and frighteningly easy to parry" since i have a great deal of trouble adapting to kendos' formalities,( i lose lots of points because i forget to call my shots) having been initially trained in iai and kenjutsu , i love the opportunity to show you the error of your ways. I will concede that you may be right in that I have only seen “Hollywood” and Americanized wushu practictioners, but what I have seen thus far leaves no doubt as to which art is superior when it comes to dedicated sword work. please, waste as much energy as you like, dancing around, you legs, your wrists and every other opening you offer as you do so, bleed just as well. real people have to breathe and when you pause for that breathe it will be the last one you take. one other idea you may consider is whose steel is more durable, it is even easier to attack a weak blade, a nice hard parry with opposition....well.. --------------------------------------------- it cuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson SMR Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 I think it's stupid to argue about who's Martial Art is superior. Each art has its own strengths and weaknesses. And on the Episode One DVD, the fight coreographer said that they looked into each and every sword and stick fighting technique on record. Anything that requires you to swing, they incorporated it into Lightsaber Dueling. Even Tennis. Cross-train. That's the only way you can say that you can truely combat another Martial Art. One man sees rigidness, another man sees efficiency. I say, any fight you're forced to partake is won if you can get out alive. Traditionally, you're best weapon is a good pair of running sneakers, but that's not always the case. I've been training with the Bo and Jo for a few years now. And it paid off big-time when I had to disable four armed (knife) gang members with a broomstick. If you want to compare Martial Arts, ask yourself which one will let you survive when the time really counts, and not one based off some kind of imaginary pissing match. You'll be surprised to see that basically all of them will escalate your odds. Seriously, this conversation's getting really moot. And I thought the point of this thread was to find a way to do JK2's extra acrobatic moves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Raiser Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Originally posted by Wes Janson SMR And I thought the point of this thread was to find a way to do JK2's extra acrobatic moves... Same here. Not to be offensive to anyone, but there's Yoda's Swamp for stuff non-JK2 related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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