Saber Combat, How to Fix it:

[Darth Barrister]

There seems to be an awful lot of complaints about the saber system in JK2. Whilst the issues with collision detection are valid, I can't agree with those who feel the control system is poor. I think problems arise because people are literally "thinking" too much. This seems to be a problem with PC gamers....too much thinking, not enough reflex. I find that after a few days I can use the saber with precision and hit exactly where I wish to 90% of the time...not by thinking what key do I press but simply by doing so automatically. Those who find the system totally random need more practice in my view...whilst those who think the system could be better are probably right. However, as it is, I think it's great, as is the game as a whole.

 

First post, impressive site, thanks for listening.

[Canis_Aureus]

Oh and just so you know.... I posted the dbts link so people could see just how useless this free saber movement is... it handles badly, it looks ugly and you have to turn by using keys... bugger!

[Jedi-Bert]

Saber combat is by no means broken

 

 

it does mnot need "fixed"

 

it is not random

 

it is not awkward

 

i can control it perfectly

 

 

you need to stop posting complaints and PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GonkH8er]

Aahhhh the good old obiwan glyph system idea

 

now who was it who got fired for unsuccessfully trying to implement that?

[MrCrusher]

Die by the Sword. Wild and wierd game. Thanks for the link

 

VSIM on the other hand might have some usefullness in JO.

 

This would solve many of these concerns.

 

Allow players to setup custom linked attacks to certian keys ....something a little more powerful than editing the JO config file. Something in the User Interface that is easy for all to understand.

[Silent Wolf]

Its pretty simple really, the saber combat will NOT change unless you get off your lazy buts and mod it. There will not be a new game for quite a while so either you get better at what we got (which imho is greatness) or you get the fluck out. All this ranting about saber control and what not....well its just fluff. I can understand the combat system didnt live up to your high standards, so just build a new one. Its not going to be tweaked in a patch, its not going to be an addon, i think raven did a wonderfull job of appealing to people of all types. Then again, i guess the natural tendency of people is to complain instead of complement.

 

-Wolf

[Khaaan]

Originally posted by Valdarious

The only reason why saber control is out of control is because of how random the swings are. There is no way to fix it unless Raven changes it so that for each direction there is only 1 kind of swing, like it is in SP. In SP you stand still and swing the saber does one thing every time. In MP, you stand still and swing and the saber does 4 different kinds of swings randomly.

 

EXACTLY!

 

dunno why some people still insist they don't have trouble with that...

[Solo4114]

Wolf,

 

Saying "get off your butt and mod" isn't really that helpful either. Honestly, I think the sabre combat SHOULD be changed, from the way it's done in SP to the way it's done in MP. As far as people voicing their opinions on it being more concerned with complaining than complimenting, I see nothing wrong with that, if it ultimately results in Raven sitting up and taking notice that a vocal portion of the people who play this game are dissatisfied with the sabre fighting in MP. I don't mind the current control method, but I think that there should be a bit better chance of blocking and that some smoothness of control needs to be implemented.

 

As far as modding goes, good luck on that without the SDK. And don't hold your breath on getting that any time soon. Like I've said elsewhere, RTCW has been out for 6 months, and we're JUST NOW starting to hear rumors that the SDK will be released in the not-too-distant future.

[Khaaan]

So you can target correctly with this?:

 

"Originally posted by Valdarious

The only reason why saber control is out of control is because of how random the swings are. There is no way to fix it unless Raven changes it so that for each direction there is only 1 kind of swing, like it is in SP. In SP you stand still and swing the saber does one thing every time. In MP, you stand still and swing and the saber does 4 different kinds of swings randomly."

 

I wonder how - this is no matter of training.

 

 

But you are right, I don't think we can do this ourselves. All our hopes lie with Raven. Oh and Dunno about Wolfenstein and a public SDK but they recently published even the sourcecode!

[Silent Wolf]

solo,

for raven to renig and revamp the lightsaber multiplayer combat would be essential to saying ...hey guys we Fked up...lez fix this pos. The system is not a POS, i fail to see how it is even "random" when i can duplicate the moves i need and want at anytime. From a business point of view, there is no way nor any reason to change the combat. They made the combat the way it is for a reason, tweaking the hit detection or the netcode are valid points i agree, however emulating something they obviously did not want to (the single playercombat) in a patch would be ludicrious. I for one have no problem owning with the lightsaber as it is now in multiplayer, to be honest i prefer it. The sheer thril of going up against a fellow "human" with a lightsaber excites me, maybe im simple.

 

-Wolf

 

p.s. Im not trying to be combative, sometimes my writting is edgy, i enjoyed your read very much solo

[MrCrusher]

Hey Silent,

 

I've played the blue print for the JO sabre system, Heretic 2 for quite a while. Context sensitive attack is the ONLY way to do it.

 

I think this thread started as a discussion for suggestions, tweaks and changes to the existing system.

 

First, Raven does listen to the community. They heavily patched the blade/staff system For H2. Are you implying that they are not willing to do this?

 

Secondly, I do not rant. I make suggestions for improving a small aspect of an already an excellent game. I've always been a fan of Raven's games.

 

Some may appear to rant, but look at them as only suggestions from those not as capable as you are at sabre-ing or posting.

 

And finally any change Raven does make will most likely be a well thought out needed change.

 

Good Luck

[Jedi-Bert]

what are you talking about with "randomness"????

 

the behavior is identical for me evertime!

 

if you dont want all the twirling and swooping, only tap the mouse button when you move lef/right etc

[Khaaan]

Stand still and hit attack a few times, then you know what I mean.

[Valdarious]

Originally posted by Jedi-Bert

Saber combat is by no means broken

 

 

it does mnot need "fixed"

 

it is not random

 

it is not awkward

 

i can control it perfectly

 

 

you need to stop posting complaints and PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I admit that I dont think it needs to be fixed.

 

It IS random in a sense, go in a game and stand still and swing about 15 times, you will see that it IS in fact random. You still kind of swing the same way all the time but it is still random.

 

True, its not awkward

 

I like the way the saber is controled, I just wish "sometimes" I could do the exact move that I wanted when I wanted. Its impossible to do that at the moment, but its still fun.

[Silent Wolf]

Crusher,

 

Great points, i played heritic 2 alot as well, i remember some of the overhauls they made to that game which were all sweet imho. However the system was good to begin with, they were just minor tweaks. People are saying the system is "random" or implying that its utter crap, i do not belive this to be the case. To "those" select people i say boo urns , to those who want minor tweaks, more power to ye!

[S!TH!NAT0R]

Excellent ideas!! -I too feel that the saber-control is way too loose and random in the heat of a intense duel. It is too easy to make a dumb mistake when u intended something else. Poor collision-detection is also a major problem! So many times I die or kill another player when it should'nt have happened at all due to poor collision detection. Also, i've noticed many times that hits that should have connected didnt register at all! Very frustrating. JK][ is a damn good game but Raven should have refined the MP saber-combat more and made the control much tighter....way too loose. Anyway, lets hope Raven has been aware of the concerns of the majority of the players and fix some things with the patch.I kinda don't blame them because they most likely had a stern release deadline to meet from LucasArts. I don't remember where but I read somewhere a couple weeks back that they had alot more they wanted to put into the game but did'nt have time.Though knowing Raven, they are most likey hard at work on a kicka$$ patch;) -They are an excellent company like Epic!

[S!TH!NAT0R]

Excellent ideas!! -I too feel that the saber-control is way too loose and random in the heat of a intense duel. It is too easy to make a dumb mistake when u intended something else. Poor collision-detection is also a major problem! So many times I die or kill another player when it should'nt have happened at all due to poor collision detection. Also, i've noticed many times that hits that should have connected didnt register at all! Very frustrating. JK][ is a damn good game but Raven should have refined the MP saber-combat more and made the control much tighter....way too loose. Anyway, lets hope Raven has been aware of the concerns of the majority of the players and fix some things with the patch.I kinda don't blame them because they most likely had a stern release deadline to meet from LucasArts. I don't remember where but I read somewhere a couple weeks back that they had alot more they wanted to put into the game but did'nt have time.Though knowing Raven, they are most likey hard at work on a kicka$$ patch;) -They are an excellent company like Epic!

[S!TH!NAT0R]

Excellent ideas!! -I too feel that the saber-control is way too loose and random in the heat of a intense duel. It is too easy to make a dumb mistake when u intended something else. Poor collision-detection is also a major problem! So many times I die or kill another player when it should'nt have happened at all due to poor collision detection. Also, i've noticed many times that hits that should have connected didnt register at all! Very frustrating. JK][ is a damn good game but Raven should have refined the MP saber-combat more and made the control much tighter....way too loose. Anyway, lets hope Raven has been aware of the concerns of the majority of the players and fix some things with the patch.I kinda don't blame them because they most likely had a stern release deadline to meet from LucasArts. I don't remember where but I read somewhere a couple weeks back that they had alot more they wanted to put into the game but did'nt have time.Though knowing Raven, they are most likey hard at work on a kicka$$ patch;) -They are an excellent company like Epic!

[Jiro Kage]

Nice triple post. How about deleting some of those extra ones, or learn not to hit the button so fast. =]

[posternutbag9d9]

Yeah, I thought it was random the first time I played against my friend... I couldn't land a hit on him... But with practice I learned to control it.... Just because you try it once or twice and it doesn't "click" doesn't mean it is broken... I can make the saber hit exactly how and when I want on any of the stances... espcially hard stance... People don't get it to work perfectly for them right away so they whine whine whine.. instead of practice practice practice... I have been duelling with 2 friends on a lan at school for the last 2 weeks just us 3 with no lag... our internet here sucks but I found a decent ping today with saber only FFA and I scored a 44... 1st place with the 2nd place being 28... That is what practicing gets you... I can assure you I didn't randomly hit my way up to 44...

[grandmasterlee]

Well it's official, 85% of you don't understand my point.

[Khaaan]

...and that's very bad. But I guess some of the posters here understand your point and agree but discuss only small details of what to enhance in saber combat control. IMO the Die by the Sword control would be great but being realistic I'd also be plain happy if they made the moves 100% repeatable.

[posternutbag9d9]

No.... I completely understand it...You want to change the system because YOU don't like it...That is an awfully selfish reason despite how many might follow you... if you don't like the game, sell it... However, I, like many, would hate to remaster the saber in this game because some guy decides hes self-righteous enough to try to speak for the entire JK2 fanbase...and if you aren't that.. you should keep your thoughts to yourself. Personally, I love the system...

[Eternity]

I have a solution that I think everybody that hates multi-player saber battles might like:

 

A modification that allows you to use single-player movement, moves, and collision detections. Then you get proper saber locks, saber battles that might actually take some skill instead of mostly lucky hits, a system that doesn't feel so cumbersome and annoying.

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by Silent Wolf

solo,

for raven to renig and revamp the lightsaber multiplayer combat would be essential to saying ...hey guys we Fked up...lez fix this pos. The system is not a POS, i fail to see how it is even "random" when i can duplicate the moves i need and want at anytime. From a business point of view, there is no way nor any reason to change the combat. They made the combat the way it is for a reason, tweaking the hit detection or the netcode are valid points i agree, however emulating something they obviously did not want to (the single playercombat) in a patch would be ludicrious. I for one have no problem owning with the lightsaber as it is now in multiplayer, to be honest i prefer it. The sheer thril of going up against a fellow "human" with a lightsaber excites me, maybe im simple.

 

-Wolf

 

p.s. Im not trying to be combative, sometimes my writting is edgy, i enjoyed your read very much solo

 

 

Honestly, I don't really think sabre combat is random so much as it is BORING. Part of why I want the combat to be like SP is because SP sabre combat was exciting. MP combat seems sluggish and lacking in precision. It seems less like using a sword and more like using a club to me. Most of the sabre fights I've been in have been two guys running at each other, trying to time a strong swing so as to hit the other guy without themselves being hit. That's pretty much it from what I've seen. Frankly, that bores the crap out of me. I've played on duel servers, and this happens a little less frequently, but the duels just bore me. They have no pizazz, no flash, no style to them. But more than that, they have no precision to them. There's no blocking, no attack, parry, and counter attack. It's just swing your sabre and hope you hit the guy before he hits you. Most of it has to do with the angle of attack anyway. If you come in at a slightly off angle, he won't block. At all. That's part of the problem, and it's why people end up running around like headless chickens. To me, that's not what sabre combat should be. IT doesn't have to be like Ep. I, but it still isn't anything like any of the original trilogy, where at least there was some strategy to the fighting. If you watch ANH, the fighting there actually has some thought behind it. It's precise. They block, parry, attack, etc. You don't really do any of that in the current system. You just swing and pray. This is the major reason why I've deleted the game from my system. I've beaten the single player game, have played enough multiplayer, and have grown bored or aggravated with it. For my time and money, I'd rather be having fun, and as it is, the game just isn't all that fun to me. It lacks immersiveness. It just feels like typical Q3A deathmatch with a few changed graphics and sounds, and some force powers. The sabre is actively discouraged in FFA games, and the MP sabre combat is just dull and lifeless. So, I've gone back to RTCW. I keep up with things here in the hopes that I'll hear about a patch or a mod, but I'm not holding my breath on either any time soon.