Compiled: All Saber Fighting Moves (huge text post)

[fgStratus]

The conclusion that Offensive Stance is for "pros" comes from the observation that the players who are the top of servers primarily use the Offensive Stance.

 

The conclusion that the Offensive Stance is better comes from the observation that the Offensive Swings do more damage, are more difficult to block, don't impair one's ability to evade, and have a longer range.

 

These "Biases" seem to be drawn conclusions and not predispositions to me.

 

Whether the lighter stances take more skill or not because they are inferior is irrelevant. What does matter is how well you do in the game. Otherwise your choice of using an inferior stance depicts a lack of knowledge, rather than an abundance of talent.

[Bacon00]

I agree- this post would have been 100% perfect had it not been for the biased opinions on the moves he was telling us.

 

Really, there shouldn't be a discussion about a post like this - it should just be a place where you can go to learn all the saber moves in the game. I was reading it, but the biased remarks that littered it sorta turned me off. Frankly, I don't care if he thinks heavy stance is for more experienced users - it's not a fact, it's an opinion.. so why is it in there?

 

It's still a good post, don't get me wrong...

[Vorax]

I agree that they do more damage and have a wider range, but you are totally ignoring the fact that you are left open to up to 2 swipes by a blue or yellow stance during most of reds attacks. You better make that swing count, cuz the faster stance guy can get a swipe and dodge in, before you even come close to connecting. If the faster stance guy manages to do that 2-3 times, you are dead. Red does indeed impeed your ability to evade. That isn't opinion, that's just fact.

 

I am a yellow stance advocate, but I do use red stance against red stance players who use heal. If they aren't healing, 9 times out of 10 they are easily defeated with yellow stance. When they do use heal, I win about 50% of the time, which is about right because red stance is pretty much just luck if both players are good at evading. Timing is the skill to learn with red, but that is pretty easily mastered. So, it just comes down to who hits who first.

 

If you notice though, I am conceding that red+heal is a very deadly combination, with, IMHO only two ways to counter, either do the same with red, or use drain and medium. I only use light force, so I can't say from my experience that drain and medium are the best counter, but it is what I see many good dark side players use against red stance.

 

- Vorax

[jmcdavel]

Last I night I did an amazing thing... I had been knocked down and the other guy was a few meters away about to DFA me, and I did the matrix flip up but he was already coming with the DFA, so I did a standing flip and managed to kick him before he hit the apex of his arc and knocked him all the way back to where he started the attack! So apparently if you have not reached the apex of the DFA attack, you are very open to a counterattack.

 

Also I've noticed that you can jump attack the person after they do the swing and are still on the ground, the insta-kill window isn't nearly as long as some people think.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

That special move that you do with heavy is know as the "one-hit wonder". It requires no skill, therefore, it is the newb move. With the wide area that it has, all that one has to do is run around with no real plan in mind hoping that they get lucky by having a person walk into it AFTER it has already been planted into the ground. The person relys on luck. No skill is needed. Heavy in general is bad. The whole tactic is: run forward, swing, move back, repeat the whole thing again. No skill whatsoever. Oh, well. We always gotta have n00bs though. Some people never learn.

 

Note: I am not really a newb, so don't judge me because it says bantha fodder. This only means that i don't post a lot.

[jedialphaknight]

yeh I agree with danny

 

If you see people who use heavy its a luck thing, they lunge at you hoping to use it. Now don't get me wrong, its not bad, but fpr a lot of people its the only thing they use, and frankly, its getting REALLY REALLY annoying guys, seriously, I use heavy when I have like 10 health and it wouldn't even matter anymore.

 

I use medium the most just becuz it takes the most skill, and I have worked several people over and over again just becuz I can pull off combos right in their face, you people who use heavy, I hope you understand how easy it is to defeat you, when you take that being swing, I can double hit you, and your at 10 or dead already.

[Ebuchednezzar]

I'll start by saying I don't claim to be a Jedi Master. I frequently lose duels, but I frequently win duels as well. I'm in the middle.

 

It's been my experience that I lose duels to those who counter my actions and I win duels against those that are not as patient as me. I sincerely believe the key to winning a duel is to let the fight come to you unless you are in a desperate situation. The reason people claim countering doesn't work is because they choose their counters poorly; that is, they use Strong Stance (too slow), or slash in the opposite direction of their opened opponent. Also, some envision countering of backing up, then running forward with a huge vertical slash. This isn't countering, it's stupid.

 

As for DFA, I've been very successful in just moving out of the way, usually in a circular fashion. It's hard to miss when you end up behind a crouching opponent.

 

Also of note in dueling is slash selection. The more I use my saber, the more I begin to understand that the direction and type of swing I use affects the outcome of the action. On more than one occasion, I've hit and killed a perfectly still opponent because I used a slash that attacked their open side. Saber tactics are a lot deeper than many many players realize, not just the noobs. They get a bad rap by the way...everyone has to be new sometime, so let's try and keep them around and not make them feel like outsiders.

 

I'm fully aware that my previous statement will have some flamer looking at my whopping 3 posts and branding me a "sutpid n00b".

[jmcdavel]

It bothers me how willfully handicapping yourself from a stance is supposed to make you the better player. The best players I've seen use all the stances at various times, depending on the distance and the situation. I'm a mix of finesse/"going for the win", so I don't win all the time, but if I ever got to the point where all I did was go for the kill every single time and never have any fun with it, well I wouldn't play anymore. However, there's nothing wrong with winning. I see people whining all the time about people who use drain then grip or any assortment of "dirty tricks" to win. People who endlessly complain about how another person only uses one stance, ad nauseum. I've yet to see any situation in the game that cannot be countered, and if things like the DFA bother you, then learn what I learned: If you slow down and stop the saber ballet, you can usually predict the move before it happens and counter it in many ways. Push the guy in mid jump and he will fall backwards every-single-time. You won't get that chance if you are leaping around spinning like a top though.

 

As for drain users, if losing all your force bothers you, then practice having a bare minimum of force at all times... once you get disciplined you will notice that drainers tend to think that you forget how to fight once you are at 0 force. If they grip you, press absorb over and over until it activates. Look directly at them and push if you are dark side. But you have to keep your cool and let them open up a window for you to strike back, you can't just fly in thinking they won't retaliate. How many fights have I just sat back and laughed as my opponent just does figure eights swinging his saber around until finally he stops in front of me and I time a left side strong slash to take him out.

 

I've had 100 health taken off by the acrobatic medium stance attack, and I've had my health at 0 in about 2 seconds from someone who knew just how to time the medium slashes so I wouldn't have time to fully heal. There are a million ways to kill your opponent and if some guy is only using one, he's limiting himself, not you!

 

*really regretting typing this out at 4 am...*

[Reapy]

Originally posted by Vorax

I agree that they do more damage and have a wider range, but you are totally ignoring the fact that you are left open to up to 2 swipes by a blue or yellow stance during most of reds attacks. You better make that swing count, cuz the faster stance guy can get a swipe and dodge in, before you even come close to connecting. If the faster stance guy manages to do that 2-3 times, you are dead. Red does indeed impeed your ability to evade. That isn't opinion, that's just fact.

- Vorax

 

 

I strongly disagree with this. Red impeeds my ability to evade? What fact is this? Do I move slower in the heavy, can I not jump out of the way in a swing?

 

It seems all the medium advocates make it seem as though the heavy player is an idiot who has no sence of timing or where his swing is connecting or how to move out of the way. So the light/med guy has to get in on me 2 - 3 times and hit me after a horrable blatent mistake I made leaving myself open, in order to kill me? When I play heavy I dont let people in on me like that to counter. If I swing, i'm going to hit you, or you are going to have to run away to avoid it, taking you well out of your shorter range with medium or light. By the time you get back to attack me, I will have been backing away or moving away from you recovering my stance. We are back to square one. If you think you can disregard my swing and try to trade blows with me, its over for you, becuase the heavy is going to take you out.

 

Anyway, the true stance that takes the most skill is all 3. Each has its uses. I like to start out heavy and play cautious, usually resulting in me getting the first hit down on someone, then moving into medium where it will only take a quick swipe to take them out.

 

Heavy has its trade off of if you do mess up and dont swing in a way where they have to run or take a hit, you get hurt. But you get 2 to 3 mistakes vs a med guy. You get zero mistakes vs a heavy guy.

 

DFA Spammers? I hate them. One guy had it down pretty well, dfa then instantly backflipping away from me. I couldnt get around behind him (duel setting here) becausse he kept is guy swiveled towards me. No way in hell i'm getting near a guy crouched and trained on me after that, it is too random if you are going to hit the guy or just die to the buried saber. Only thing to do here is just doge him, it takes a warm up, if you see a heavy player who you know has some degee of skill swinging well out of striking range, hes winding up to jump at you. Anyway the only way i got the guy was when he decided to make a regular jump i waited on the ground then hit him with a heavy as he came down.

 

Do i have a problem with his play style? No. I found it hard to beat. If you ever watch a server, you will see the guy who just learned dfa missing all over the place adn only doing so so, where as the guy whos number 1 kills one to two people every time hes in the air with that thing.

 

I mean what style is better is such a moot argument its just pointlessly stupid. Which style is better in which situation, now that is worthy of discussion. If you are just going to condem yourself to one style or one tecnhique to kill people, you wont ever be a good player.

 

I dont think there are good players in this game yet. I mean really, what defines a great player? I like the one poster (sorry i forgot your name ) saying that score is the only judge of a players skill in relation to the game. Who has the top score? Is it always a good player? Hell no! Case in point, the ohter night I playd on a server for 4 rounds. My first two rounds one guy won by a margine of about 10 - 15 kills. I was usually behind the 2nd place player in 3rd. Number one guy left. Myself and the other fellow were close for the next game but he pulled ahead and won by about 10 kills or so, and myself a good way ahead of the other players. That guy left. I owned that server. Was I the best? Hell no. I was like 40 kills off the pace that other guy was setting.

 

There are no good players becuase there is no median to judge them, becuase score doesnt mean everything to everybody. A good player in my eyes then, is someone who doesnt die. Who wins all his duels, who does it different everytime. He may dfa spam one match, then kick some guy to death another, then go medium for 4 or so duels, then just grip another guy to death, then go heavy style for the next few. Constantly doing things you have never seen nor heard of before, successfully. Have you seen someone like this? I havent. There sure will be people like this in time though. If you want to be one I suggest you learn every style and realise that each style has its place. (except light that sucks!!! )

 

These topics seem relevent to duels only. What about ctf? Is heavy useless in ctf. Is it useless vs guns? No force ctf? Force team ffa? No force saber only ffa? Jedi master? Holocron? A Great player in jedi? Drop him in any game setting and he will kick your ass 30 different ways and you wont ever come close to beating him. That is a great player, and I havent seen one yet.

 

Sundevil

[Soul-Burn]

Nice post, reapy!

 

Some of you are saying: "Heavy stance takes no skill! Yellow stance takes most skill!"

 

I disagree... I found playing with Medium is the easiet. Playing with Heavy (without DFA) is the next and Blue is usually (for me) useless... Only a few uppercuts once in a while..

 

You can't say Medium takes more skill, because it doesn't. Both Medium and Heavy (w/o DFA) take skill, but different types of skills.

 

Medium lets you a few hits which might connect while Heavy gives you a single move with horrible set-up time. (IMO!)

 

I hope to see someone who owns with the Light Stance, or even better, a person who knows to switch stances fast and use them correctly.

[Bambers]

I would disagree that the DFA is unstoppable. If I'm ever in a challenged duel and the opponent is using heavy only then just saber throw them. The time it takes for the attacks especially the DFA leaves them unable to deflect a saber. Kick is also useful if they have started swinging to late.

[Soul-Burn]

Bambs, don't forget many duels are done without force at all... no throws either...

 

Anyways, if they start the DFA close to you, u can medium slash them and they'll fall back.

 

If they DFA from infront of u, just stand an inch out of their range with a Heavy Slash starting. If you time it right, u won't get hit and they'll die.

[Vorax]

Ok, I am gonna change my stance on this stuff.

 

I am no longer an advocate for medium most of the time.

 

I played on a no-force duel server for a few of hours last night, I was owned for the 2 hours, everyone was. We were destroyed by a guy using all stances. He stuck mostly with blue however. It was amazing. he was fast and furious and untoucable. Everyone, including me would come at him with red, he was so fast and swung that thing so well, noone could touch him. There must have been 20 people come to the server get frustrated and leave. They all came in cocky...'I will just use red and cut him up' Or 'Medium is gonna be easy to beat him with'

 

This guy used everything. Mostly blue, but also yellow and red. He interchanged fast to keep everyone off balance. He had all the moves down for every stance. I was truly humbled. Everyone was. So, you should amend the whole point on blue, this guy proved it to be absolutely wrong, infact he proved most of what everyone is saying here (inlcluding me) wrong. It is hard to say what was telling him to choose one stance or another, although with almost every 'red' stance, he went 'blue', which shocked me. I also noticed that depending on the layout of the map, and where he was in it, he switched. He did it so automatically that as he walked around in ffa_raven, he switched stances even when the other guy wasn't around. After studying his play for 2 hours, I was finally able to get 3 on him out of 10. 2 other guys, amazed by his play also, got 1 each. But he still cleaned our clocks, and must have been getting tired of being on top so long.

 

I have truly seen the first player that IS elite.

 

- Vorax

[Homosexual Ewok]

Anyone remember DOOM and the BFG? Red stance will be the choice among new players due to it's high damage factor, but unless you have the reflexes of a slug, getting hit by those power shots only happens on accident if you are a halfway decent or an experienced player.

Personally I'm glad so many people use it, it is so easy to telegraph the swings I can hit them, evade the swing, and come back in for the kill with the yellow stance.

The yellow stance side swing is pure death-on-a-stick.

[toolboi]

I feel I have to break this to all the Light and Medium stance proponents out there: there's yet another reason not to use your styles. A player can render himself completely invulnerable to your Light Style attacks and about 90% resistant to Medium attacks simply by getting level 3 saber defense, squatting in a corner and facing you.

 

I would LOVE to test this out

As far as I have seen blocking a move is almost completley unpredictable, even with the cursor facing directly at the saber. Red though does seem to get blocked less then any other swing for some reason... I suppose this is good as otherwize red would be WAY too weak.

 

It is seldom (1 out of 8 times) that your opponent will just happen to be in the direction of exactly the swing you want to do. To me, this makes both medium and light stance pretty useless since you should always control your position before your swing.

 

I disagree. Often I can get a 3-4 hit combo in with yellow stance that is effectivley a one hit kill. Theres also this AMAZING yellow stance triangle combo, I dont know how the hell you do it, but I have done it and see others do it. It takes about 1.5 seconds to pull off and does enough dammage to completley obliterate an opponent with full life (not sure about sheidls though).

 

The flaw I see is in reds one hit kills. This makes red virtually impossible to counter without force. The best way I have yet found is to run in, slash a few times with blue, and then roll out before they can finish a slash.

 

That's because you are playing with really unexperienced people.

 

True and not true. Red is easy to counter, its all about timing. Attacking after they swing wont work, but rather relying on the fact that it takes nearly 2 seconds to start a red swing... thats what you use.

 

And as for the guy who owned every one using mainly blue... if you were all using red, then thats why

blue counters red

red counters yellow

yellow counters blue (assuming the same skill level for all of course).

[Vorax]

We weren't just using red, I started off my usual way with yellow, then switched to red after dying a few times. It didn't matter what stance we had, he was just incredibly good. The people on the server were obviously not newbies. Everyone was applying sound tactics. They just didn't work. The guys knowledge of all the stances was what made him such a force to recon with. He did use blue against red alot, but not always and not for the entire fight. He never stayed on a single stance for the entire fight if they player wasn't killed very fast (some of the ones that came on the server were noobs and died fast).

 

On another note: During the time I was there, this poor got called every name in the book! Not fair, he was obvisously a superior player. His reward for that was getting called every name out there. If someone is doing that on a server, put it to them to stop, grow up, learn the game and quit whinning.

 

- Vorax

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Vorax

Ok, I am gonna change my stance on this stuff.

 

I am no longer an advocate for medium most of the time.

 

I played on a no-force duel server for a few of hours last night, I was owned for the 2 hours, everyone was. We were destroyed by a guy using all stances. ...

 

This guy used everything. Mostly blue, but also yellow and red. ...

 

I have truly seen the first player that IS elite.

 

- Vorax

 

What was his name?? I'd sure like to duel him or at least talk to him. Got any screenshots?? Let's get some more info here!

[ArtifeX]

Ok guys, as per your requests, there's two new sections: Countering the "Death From Above (DFA)" and "Getting Up Off Your 4$$ and Back Into the Fight".

 

As always, comments, oversights, and suggested additions are welcome.

[Soul-Burn]

Heheheh.....

 

Medium 3 shots combo simply rocks !!!

 

I see people come towards me when I swing once, thinking I'm open for attack and get slashed twice and dying!!!

 

 

I just wish I could do over 2-3 swings at a time (cuz it's takes some timing)...

 

However, I was able to do a 5 swing combo with Blue like once or twice but just got hacked

[LooNBB]

All the NooBs talk is irrelevant. Who cares if the player is new with a minimum of experience. If they can find a few tactics that work well, then good for them. If you have been playing and think you are experienced, but still complain that the Newbie keeps taking you out with DFA, well... I personally think you are the Newbie.

 

Anyone who stays in the same stance through out a duel is NOT "experienced". Each stance has its obvious strenths and weaknesses... You have to switch them up to keep the other player from planning 2-3 moves ahead.

 

Anyway... I think all this Newbie talk is Cr@p. A lot of you just need to get your sabers out of your hands, stop whining, and play.

[hydro[/jedi]]

you did a great job, artifex.

 

i normally don't like to "add to the knowledge pool," because i believe it should be earned through experience so you can understand the application. but i think that there is plenty and plenty of whining about DFA (and for good reason). also, i would like to address the issue of saber styles.

 

it is my experience in gaming that ANY abuse can be dealt with in at least one manner or another. in jedi knight 2, i quickly learned how important and powerful push and pull were. pull and stab was so easy to use and abuse that it was my primary attack. a couple weeks later, i find out that EVERYONE uses this crap. however, more importantly, it can be countered just as easily and counters can be more effective than a simple pull and stab. DFA is IMO also another easily abused attack. first, in defense of DFA, it is pretty much the only way a red attack can be comboed. this is one of the reasons it is so powerful, aside from the already obvious stated reasons (ranging from range to difficulty of countering). however, i would like to add another couple of methods to countering DFA.

-while the attacker is further away in the air, use pull while strafing left or right. the attacker will go flying in your direction right past you, and you can take advantage from there.

-counter with offense #1 (before the apex); attackers of DFA will go over your head if you can run past them. use this in combination with some kind of overhead slash or something along these lines.

-counter with offense #2 (after the apex); while they are landing (*but before they land), you can swing at them before they hit the ground. keep your range, though.

-use weapons; this method is purely, by far, the easiest to counter with. i laugh at all of you people crying "red is newb" when you can't even remember what being truly newb is. which is forgetting the basics of playing. sure you may think using weapons is newb, but IMO, NOT using weapons in ideal situations is MOST newb.

-force speed works excellent on DFA; run in and throw whatever well-timed saber moves you need to in that SMALL refresh period.

i really dont' like DFA abuse...but i've learned to deal with it instead of whining "please NOOoo!!--take it out!!!...its too hard to deal with!!--where's my pacifier?" (j/k guys...this isn't meant to be a flame post)

 

as for saber styles...i think its very important that people realize that even though red is INTUITIVELY more powerful, that the other two can be used just as well in the right hands. for all you haters of red: i believe it not only takes the least skill to be good with (i.e. newbs can use it in a crowd of people and get a kill), but that it takes the MOST skill to be excelled with. that is, each swing is meant to be timed and situational. you use range to your advantage, rather than blue/golds "get in close and click" method. also, with red's huge refresh times, you need to learn how to use your offensive saber defensively (*ZooFacts!*: you can use your saber to block weapons/sabers while you are in your swings). just like in real swordsplay, you also need to learn how to be an excellent judge of distances. these are the reasons i believe red is not only the most newb of styles, but also the mostest elite.

 

sorry for long post, but i hope i helped you guys out.

-hydro

[Vorax]

The guys name was 'Nutz' spelt using all different colors.

 

- Vorax

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by toolboi

I feel I have to break this to all the Light and Medium stance proponents out there: there's yet another reason not to use your styles. A player can render himself completely invulnerable to your Light Style attacks and about 90% resistant to Medium attacks simply by getting level 3 saber defense, squatting in a corner and facing you.

 

I would LOVE to test this out

 

I killed someone in a duel server with it yesterday on duel_jedi. He was using medium style and only managed to land 1 hit before my stationary saber killed him.

 

It is seldom (1 out of 8 times) that your opponent will just happen to be in the direction of exactly the swing you want to do. To me, this makes both medium and light stance pretty useless since you should always control your position before your swing.

 

I disagree. Often I can get a 3-4 hit combo in with yellow stance that is effectivley a one hit kill. Theres also this AMAZING yellow stance triangle combo, I dont know how the hell you do it, but I have done it and see others do it. It takes about 1.5 seconds to pull off and does enough dammage to completley obliterate an opponent with full life (not sure about sheidls though).

 

Let me clarify. Say you want to do your "triangle" combo the next time your opponent comes at you. Let's say for the sake of argument that you have to hit attack+forward, then left, then back to accomplish the move. Your enemy starts his rush; you start your combo. He sees your first swing as you come directly at him and he dodges to your right. Well, the next move of your combo demands that you move left in order to do the correct swing. Do you:

 

1. Move left even though it will move you out of range and thus serve no purpose, or:

 

2. Move right and screw up your combo, but remain within striking range?

 

That's my point. You have to make that decision every time you chain moves together. You're only gettin half of what you want. Too often it's either Strike or Direction, but not both.

 

The flaw I see is in reds one hit kills. This makes red virtually impossible to counter without force. The best way I have yet found is to run in, slash a few times with blue, and then roll out before they can finish a slash.

 

Please do challenge me and try that.

 

That's because you are playing with really unexperienced people.

 

True and not true. Red is easy to counter, its all about timing. Attacking after they swing wont work, but rather relying on the fact that it takes nearly 2 seconds to start a red swing... thats what you use.

 

And as for the guy who owned every one using mainly blue... if you were all using red, then thats why

blue counters red

red counters yellow

yellow counters blue (assuming the same skill level for all of course).

 

Man, I'm afraid you're just plain wrong about blue countering red. It's more like this:

 

red counters red, yellow and blue

yellow counters yellow and blue

blue counters blue

 

I cannot stress my warning against using blue in a duel enough--you will not gain consistent kills that way. If you don't believe me, go join a ladder somewhere and try it. (http://www.iglnet.com)

[daviddg4]

A true Jedi uses all three stances when the situation calls for it. In my opinion.

[Koffin]

Originally posted by StAtilXl

The heavy stance isnt that powerful just dont get hit by it

 

 

Nice strategy StAtilXl....

Now if you could just apply that to the medium and light stancec as well you'd be unstoppable.

 

Wish I had thought of it....