Eternity Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 WARNING: Some parts of the story will be mentioned. Did anyone else feel the cut-scenes and the storyline was rushed? For instance: *Desann let Kyle free so he could lead him to to the Valley of the Jedi. He kept Jan to torture her about the same thing. Why not capture both and torture both of them until they cracked? He could of threatened Kyle with Jan being sliced or tortured if he didn't tell...this was just a lame plot twist. *When Kyle rescues Jan, she doesn't even show surprise about him now all of a sudden being a Jedi. Hello? Anybody in there, developers? Plus, the reactions in that scene were just terrible. *The scene where Luke fights Desann. Blah. Desann's light saber throw triggers an extremely fake looking blockade. What the hell? As far as the cut-scenes go, all the characters have teeth that keep me up at night in terror. The faces look pasted on. I loved the game, but did anyone else feel it was a little rushed in this department? Plus, couldn't they have included some more skins and actual outdoor levels, such as towns? The short developer time kind of shows.... Anyone else agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uteboy Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Originally posted by Eternity WARNING: Some parts of the story will be mentioned. Did anyone else feel the cut-scenes and the storyline was rushed? For instance: *Desann let Kyle free so he could lead him to to the Valley of the Jedi. He kept Jan to torture her about the same thing. Why not capture both and torture both of them until they cracked? He could of threatened Kyle with Jan being sliced or tortured if he didn't tell...this was just a lame plot twist. If they Desann had captured both of them and tortured them they would probably have both resisted all his efforts to reveal the valleys location. Likewise if he had threatened to kill Jan if Kyle didn't tell him, Kyle probably would have gestured to Desann that he's always number one with him (think about it) It was only by making Kyle think that Jan was already dead that he was able to set Kyle up to return to the valley to get his Jedi power back so Desann could follow him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternity Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 If they Desann had captured both of them and tortured them they would probably have both resisted all his efforts to reveal the valleys location. Likewise if he had threatened to kill Jan if Kyle didn't tell him, Kyle probably would have gestured to Desann that he's always number one with him (think about it) Er, sorry. That went right over my head. Always number one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kataarn Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Originally posted by Eternity Did anyone else feel the cut-scenes and the storyline was rushed? For instance: *Desann let Kyle free so he could lead him to to the Valley of the Jedi. He kept Jan to torture her about the same thing. Why not capture both and torture both of them until they cracked? He could of threatened Kyle with Jan being sliced or tortured if he didn't tell...this was just a lame plot twist. There was a reason Desann did that. He knew that Kyle would go to the valley if he believed that Desann had had her killed. Simply, this was MUCH easier that taking the risk that you wouldn't find it if you tortured them both (which is a realistic risk). *When Kyle rescues Jan, she doesn't even show surprise about him now all of a sudden being a Jedi. Hello? Anybody in there, developers? Plus, the reactions in that scene were just terrible. Desann or Galak probably told her what was going on, evil people have a habit of doing that. From that info, she could draw her own conclusions pretty easily. *The scene where Luke fights Desann. Blah. Desann's light saber throw triggers an extremely fake looking blockade. What the hell? It was designed to slow him down, not kill him. They probably would've made it a teeny bit more realistic if the blockade actually did anything. As far as the cut-scenes go, all the characters have teeth that keep me up at night in terror. The faces look pasted on. Yes, the teeth are screwed, this was pointed out in one of the reviews...I never liked them much either. I loved the game, but did anyone else feel it was a little rushed in this department? Plus, couldn't they have included some more skins and actual outdoor levels, such as towns? The short developer time kind of shows.... You have to remember, this is an FPS, besides, they had no reason to include towns. What on earth would they do that for? I agree they could've made a few more maps, and perhaps a couple outdoor levels...maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrCumference Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Oh yes, ~1-3 years is no development time at all. JKII is definetely superior to just about every other FPS game for the computer, in just about every respect, don't forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOO Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 I'll have to disagree, the cut scenes where fine. They where nothing spectacular, but they got the job done and moved the story. As for the teeth, thats just a petty little thing, even if it did make everyone look like a mongloid. As for the claim "JKII is definetely superior to just about every other FPS game for the computer" I really think you need to add an IMHO to that OOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aletoledo Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 IMO desaan trying to torture the info out of them is too risky, the plan he did do had a lot more chance of success. kyle was a jedi from JK1 and jan was there also, so shes used to him being a jedi. a jedi is typically always a jedi and if you listen to a few of the jokes she makes to kyle in this regards, shes basically said "I knew you were a jedi since day one, its only you that never accepted it". the saber throw...I guess I missed since I played single player through prior to playing multiplayer and I think I might have used throw once the entire time....so I'm not a great judge on how it should look. frankly I think its kinda corny for a jedi to be tossing around his saber every 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zek Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Originally posted by Eternity *Desann let Kyle free so he could lead him to to the Valley of the Jedi. He kept Jan to torture her about the same thing. Why not capture both and torture both of them until they cracked? He could of threatened Kyle with Jan being sliced or tortured if he didn't tell...this was just a lame plot twist. His main method of getting to the Valley of the Jedi was following Kyle. They only kept Jan for backup in case that didn't work; Tavion mentioned that they wouldn't risk killing the only other person who knew the whereabouts of the valley. *When Kyle rescues Jan, she doesn't even show surprise about him now all of a sudden being a Jedi. Hello? Anybody in there, developers? Plus, the reactions in that scene were just terrible. Jan's just a cold-hearted b**tch. *The scene where Luke fights Desann. Blah. Desann's light saber throw triggers an extremely fake looking blockade. What the hell? Who cares? As far as the cut-scenes go, all the characters have teeth that keep me up at night in terror. The faces look pasted on. Not to mention the fact that Luke looks as if he hasn't slept in months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frizbee Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 He probably hasn't slept in months, after all, would YOU be able to sleep if you found out that Princess Leia was your sister, Darth Vader was your father, and that Han Solo was going to be your Brother-in-Law? I don't think they have therapists that could handle that sort of situation in the Star Wars universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happydan Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 development time for the game was about 9 months, i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternity Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 Sorry, I think you guys are just explaining away things.. On with the debate! His main method of getting to the Valley of the Jedi was following Kyle. They only kept Jan for backup in case that didn't work; Tavion mentioned that they wouldn't risk killing the only other person who knew the whereabouts of the valley. I know. That was lame, for reasons already stated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The scene where Luke fights Desann. Blah. Desann's light saber throw triggers an extremely fake looking blockade. What the hell? Response: Who cares? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Um, I do? IMO desaan trying to torture the info out of them is too risky, the plan he did do had a lot more chance of success. kyle was a jedi from JK1 and jan was there also, so shes used to him being a jedi. a jedi is typically always a jedi and if you listen to a few of the jokes she makes to kyle in this regards, shes basically said "I knew you were a jedi since day one, its only you that never accepted it". Now, come on. Which plan had the riskier chances? Realistically, he's not going to send Kyle loose in the galaxy when he could have had him captured. He wouldn't have let him go to the Valley and get his force powers and stay alive, either. Before you tell me, I know this is just a game and he needed to get his powers somehow. But it could have been done WAY better. And pure and simple, there was no justification for Jan not showing ANY reaction about Kyle being a jedi, except as someone mentioned, she's a cold-hearted *****. I'll have to disagree, the cut scenes where fine. They where nothing spectacular, but they got the job done and moved the story. As for the teeth, thats just a petty little thing, even if it did make everyone look like a mongloid. They could have been done a hell of a lot better. They looked like puppet dolls, they moved like puppet dolls, and they portrayed puppet dolls. Oh yes, ~1-3 years is no development time at all. JKII is definetely superior to just about every other FPS game for the computer, in just about every respect, don't forget that. WTF? 3 years? And, er, are you forgetting Half-Life, No-one lives forever, Max Payne, etc. etc. Combat, yes? General FPS, no. It was designed to slow him down, not kill him. They probably would've made it a teeny bit more realistic if the blockade actually did anything. It looked cheesy. Look at a game like Half-Life's blockades blockades, to show it's not about technology. You have to remember, this is an FPS, besides, they had no reason to include towns. What on earth would they do that for? I agree they could've made a few more maps, and perhaps a couple outdoor levels...maybe. To me, even the outdoor levels looked indoor. (Example, Cloud City. What kind of city was that? I felt ripped off.) They tried to attempt an outdoor level with the swamp, and failed terribly when it came to a realistic looking portrayal of an outdoor setting. Again, I love this game, I have a very high opinion of it, it's just that these things bother me because it seems to me not exceptional effort was put into the game, which most top notch triple-A titles have. Sorry for any spelling or grammical errors, it's 12:00 at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pol Favre Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 the teeth suck! not only are they THIN, but they're BROWN. for the skin im working on, im totally whitening the teeth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsEr-X- Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 I don't trust people with pee-wee herman icons by their names... UsEr-X- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternity Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 I was supposed to change it 2 days ago when somebody told me that. I'll change it with something Pink Floydish or something tommorrow, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uteboy Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Originally posted by Eternity Er, sorry. That went right over my head. Always number one? Find someone you don't like - hold up your middle finger and say : "you are always number one with me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enDless_Deliriu Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Originally posted by uteboy Find someone you don't like - hold up your middle finger and say : "you are always number one with me" Oh, and here I thought you were referring to the fact that it says in the book that it's rumored that Jan is the only person who Kyle puts above himself in priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonkH8er Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Originally posted by Pol Favre the teeth suck! not only are they THIN, but they're BROWN. for the skin im working on, im totally whitening the teeth! When a jedi you are, have as much time to brush your teeth you will not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchx Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 if bespin and nar shadda had civilians it woulda made them a whole lot better did anyone seriously feel that they were in a "cloud city" or booming metropolis in either of those levels? or just playing through a generic level of an fps? in fact with exception of the swamp i kept forgetting on each level whether i was on a space station , future city or starship as there were no serious differences (especially the cairn base and doomgiver levels). the game was really, really fun but it lacked credible atmosphere because IMHO the level design when compared with other premium fps's was pretty woefull. also i've said this before and maybe its fanboy pedantry but they should have removed kyles darkside powers from the game after he found out Jan was alive. -patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Originally posted by Eternity WARNING: Some parts of the story will be mentioned. As far as the cut-scenes go, all the characters have teeth that keep me up at night in terror. The faces look pasted on. LMFAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTheS Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 I have never been much of a fan of in-engine cutscenes; I think the FMV cutscenes in JK rocked, and I fail to see why most reviewers downgrade games for using FMV or SMK. Now, the cutscenes in JO are a step up from the usual fare (and light-years away from the ones in MOTS, which just looked oooogley in comparison to the rest of the game), but the animations at least could have done with some more work (specifically that handshake at the end... and the kissing animation was just bad. Way to put a damper on the scene that Dark Forces fans have been waiting to see for years...) --- Well, I don't know about anyone else, but the civilians in JK and MOTS really annoyed me, mostly because they were really, REALLY stupid and actually got into the line of fire for no good reason (thus making it harder to stay Light Side). Given that it's already hard enough to avoid damaging your allies in the Academy levels, having bystanders would just be a further annoyance. Anyway, I doubt there is such a thing as an innocent bystander on Nar Shaddaa... and on Bespin, if you saw a lot of guys in sinister hoods carrying lightsabers, not to mention stormtroopers and weirdos lobbing thermal detonators around at random, wouldn't you prefer to keep off the streets? (now, if it were Coruscant, that would be a different matter...) --- There is no such thing as a generic FPS level. Even FPS games with no plot have a unique feel (Unreal, for example; although in gameplay it's no different from Quake 2, the ambiance of the game is MUCH different). JO's levels retain the general feel of the previous Dark Forces games, so I'm not complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kataarn Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 [quote} Now, come on. Which plan had the riskier chances? Realistically, he's not going to send Kyle loose in the galaxy when he could have had him captured. He wouldn't have let him go to the Valley and get his force powers and stay alive, either. Before you tell me, I know this is just a game and he needed to get his powers somehow. But it could have been done WAY better. And pure and simple, there was no justification for Jan not showing ANY reaction about Kyle being a jedi, except as someone mentioned, she's a cold-hearted *****. Okay, back to the reasons I already stated before, which you convienently skipped for no good reason. Eternity, didn't you hear? Dark Jedi don't BELIEVE in risks. Yeesh. They only believe it getting what they want, everything else is just extra. Hence, he didn't really care what Kyle did, as long as Kyle lead him to the Valley...and as far as Desann cared, it would be a lot more FUN to kill Kyle if he could use the force. Like I said before about Jan, Galak probably told her what happened, and she drew her own conclusions, obviously. Do you actually think that the characters would be COMPLETELY stupid (no, by your previous posts you don't, but apparently you seem to think Jan would be stupid....hmmmm, hypocrite). They could have been done a hell of a lot better. They looked like puppet dolls, they moved like puppet dolls, and they portrayed puppet dolls. Agreed, I liked the FMV. It looked cheesy. Look at a game like Half-Life's blockades blockades, to show it's not about technology. Yes, it did look cheesy, and to add to it, it's the only time sabers actually cut through walkways. But, like I said before, they probably would've done a better job if it was supposed to do anything. Personally, I loved the swamp....could've used some more wildlife though. I agree that there should've been pedestrians in Shadda, and Bespin, but in all likelyhood, one of your goals would be "Avoid getting any innocents killed"...which would produce a LOT of headaches, and quickloading. Maybe that's why they didn't include them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchx Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 hmmm i seriously think civilians would have created a much more immersive level. when i say generic fps i mean there is no outstanding feature, be it architecturally or scriptwise. architecturally the levels were completely non credible as far as practicality goes, even for the starwars universe. i just did not feel like i was in any sort of military installation, just a level designed for me to walk through and shoot poorly positioned stormtroopers with my ridiculously innacurate stormtrooper rifle which fires blaster bolts that move slower then the bleedin' stormtroopers i'm shooting at. and the developer's were going on about the ai and how when you shoot a stormie leader or officer the others would scarper but i've developed the tactic of shooting the officers last so as to stop the stormies from running around like headless turkeys as much. to make it a bit easier to shoot them with my snail paced stormtrooper blaster bolts and i've seen heaps of user made levels with better orchestrated scripts then in JK2 on artus topside when the ships come in after you blow the ion cannons they seem to rise up behind a section of rock...wtf is that? arent they sposed to be held up in orbit until kyle clears the ground to air defences? its a small qualm i know, but there are lots of little things like that in it that detract from the experience of a game that as far as its gameplay fun factor goes , is unequeled. if they just spent a bit more time on the cutscenes, level design, and art (more enemy skins, more monsters) this game would habe been an immortal classic. -patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Forceflow Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 I really do think JK lacked in terms of story and athmosphere. Again, I cannot stress enough how much I enjoyed the game, but some parts of it could've been cleary made much better. I would have enjoyed some more civilians. (Maybe at least some who would run away screaming once you or some stormies appear.) I liked the appearance of the second reborn in the Freezing chamber, that had a great athmosphere, but that was one of the few really climatic scenes. Besides, the scripting in the cut-scenes has some problems with unforseen events. (Like me placing 5 automatic guns in the room where Galak shows up, man, that cut-scene was really messed up) I was kinda dissapointed by that. Not to meantion the fact that you cannot ABORT the scenes! (Seeing them once is okay, twice, yes, but anything mosre than that just plainly sucks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChampionMrSocks Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 You can tap the Ctrl button to speed through the cutscenes, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalGuard Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 You can tap the Ctrl button to speed through the cutscenes, by the way. or the E key Well, I don't know about anyone else, but the civilians in JK and MOTS really annoyed me, mostly because they were really, REALLY stupid and actually got into the line of fire for no good reason (thus making it harder to stay Light Side). Since when has the light side been the easy path? I really enjoyed scenes with civillians in in JK and missed them in JKO. Cloud city could have been a lot better, and Nar Shadda as well (no moans about the snipers now, it shows you the only safe way of taking out a jedi and signaled to me that Reelo was a worthy opponent). Used quickload a lot though I admit. Yes the cutscenes were awful, use FMV! Mark Hamill did wing commander, how could he turn down the opportunity to reprise the best role of his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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