What Is Balance To The Force?????

[Johner]

Ok many people think they know what this means but I don’t think many people do J

Here’s the thing. There is supposed to be this prophecy of the one who will return BALANCE to the force. Qui-con thinks it is Anakin because he has a very high (maybe the HIGHEST EVER!) midicholrian count and they conceived him as well (AKA his slave mother either forgot about that time she got really drunk in that ally or she was to embarrassed to tell about it J). This is very convincing on a raw data/scientific perspective BUT….

Could balance mean an equal partnership of both light and dark side? If so, at this point wasn’t the light force at a very high point if not its peak? I realize they did find a Sith person and knew there was probably just 1 other (after they killed Maul so that just leaves 1!!!) hence The Phantom Menace. So in this scenario why would Qui-con and anyone else want the Boy trained if the light side is dominant and balance would lead to an inevitable huge growth of the dark side?

Or does balance to the force mean all light side (doesn’t seem very balanced to me J)?

Ok, so I am very certain that “officially” (meaning only in the movies is my definition) Luke is really the chosen one. This still doesn’t shed that much light (excuse the pun); however because Luke is mostly responsible for killing Darth Vader and the Emperor. Which means that the Sith are extinct AGAIN because there can only be 2 (once again I think the official story line really does follow this rule more or less J). So if Luke really was the chosen one that would lead me to entertain the idea that balance to the force IS totally 1 sided. The empire hardly IS the dark side, but merely clouded/controlled by them seeing as the empire was lead by the emperor. Furthermore since Vader was also killed and the Empire suffered a huge blow in return of the Jedi there really can’t be any dark side left (at this point) because there isn’t even a dark lord to control a battered Empire. If balance really does mean all light force, then why would anyone be eager to train Anakin if everything with the light force is CURRENTLY ok except for the minor incursions of Darth Maul and a “mysterious other J”???

 

PLEASE TELL ME EVERYTHING YOU KNOW!!!! And try to leave out the kooky crap in Star Wars books with the exception of official Phantom Menace…episode 4,5, 6 books plus any further stuff that you think supplements (not necessarily what adds to) the movies. THANKS!

[Beefshank]

I think Anakin IS the chosen one. And there are 2 possible interpretations of the prophacy:

 

1: Anakin (Vader) IS the one who finally kills the Emperor, after he is redeemed back to the light side (I guess). So if "Balance" means "all light side, no dark side=perfect harmony" then he did bring that to be.

 

 

2: Anakin (Vader) is also responsible for hunting down and destroying all the Jedi, except Obi-Wan, and Yoda. That leaves 2 Jedi, and 2 Sith. Which is obviously, a balance.

 

I hope the truth is #2. Because it makes a better story if the "prophacy" was meant to be a HUGE warning, but was misinterprited as this great good thing.

 

Maybe it's both and he brings balance twice! But anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[zaguria]

I can't help you out there but I have thought this myself. This is my theory on it.

 

Balance to the force means there will be roughly the same amount of dark side/light side force powers being used. At the moment (phantom menace) the only side is light side, while there's a tiny bit of dark side (palpatine) it's not enough. So when they qui gon says,"He will bring balance to the force" he is actually saying that Anakin will become extremely powerful in the dark side and even things up.

 

Which doesn't make any sense because why would Qui Gon be so eager to train up someone who will inevitably crush the light side???

 

It is definately an interesting topic and one in which I think only George Lucas himself can answer, unless of course it's just a loophole in the story.

[Johner]

Originally posted by Beefshank

I think Anakin IS the chosen one. And there are 2 possible interpretations of the prophacy:

 

1: Anakin (Vader) IS the one who finally kills the Emperor, after he is redeemed back to the light side (I guess). So if "Balance" means "all light side, no dark side=perfect harmony" then he did bring that to be.

 

 

2: Anakin (Vader) is also responsible for hunting down and destroying all the Jedi, except Obi-Wan, and Yoda. That leaves 2 Jedi, and 2 Sith. Which is obviously, a balance.

 

I hope the truth is #2. Because it makes a better story if the "prophacy" was meant to be a HUGE warning, but was misinterprited as this great good thing.

 

Maybe it's both and he brings balance twice! But anyway, that's my 2 cents.

 

Thanks, nice reply!

 

I am PRETTY sure that it says on the official website (NOT EXPANDED UNIVERSE) that Luke IS the chosen 1, so it isn't left up for interpretation. But im not totally certain, someone go check

 

I think there is more truth to your number 1 because Vader is ULTIMATELY responsible for killing the emporer and turning himself back to the light side (both with help from luke). I think this is more evidence that Luke really is the chosen 1 because I feel that he was mostly responsible for turning Vader back (cmon how can you argue with that...go ahead though ) and getting rid of the emporer.

[Johner]

Originally posted by zaguria

I can't help you out there but I have thought this myself. This is my theory on it.

 

Balance to the force means there will be roughly the same amount of dark side/light side force powers being used. At the moment (phantom menace) the only side is light side, while there's a tiny bit of dark side (palpatine) it's not enough. So when they qui gon says,"He will bring balance to the force" he is actually saying that Anakin will become extremely powerful in the dark side and even things up.

 

Which doesn't make any sense because why would Qui Gon be so eager to train up someone who will inevitably crush the light side???

 

It is definately an interesting topic and one in which I think only George Lucas himself can answer, unless of course it's just a loophole in the story.

 

Right! Keep this going people! C'mon where are the HUGE STAR WARS freaks!?

[Vestril]

Balance to the force means there will be roughly the same amount of dark side/light side force powers being used. At the moment (phantom menace) the only side is light side, while there's a tiny bit of dark side (palpatine) it's not enough. So when they qui gon says,"He will bring balance to the force" he is actually saying that Anakin will become extremely powerful in the dark side and even things up.

 

This drives me nuts because I'm SO sure I head Lucas talk about this but I can't remember where so I can double check. The way I recall hearing it Anakin brings balance to the Force by killing the Emperor, because people who use the Dark side imbalance the Force, and the Jedi attempt to maintain the balance of the Force. The main reason for this is as follows...

 

If Darth Vader brought balance to the Force by killing the Jedi, he imbalanced it again by killing the Emperor and becoming good. Pretty crappy chosen one...

 

Luke isn't the chosen one because he doesn't actively balance the Force, Anakin does. Luke inspires, as do Han and Leia (it was in one of those books, Chewie is the hero on the ground (he's the one who turns the tides by getting a walker), Lando and Wedge blow up the death star, and Vader kills the Emperors--now the Hero's from the previous films are the inspiration instead). Anyway, hope that all makes sense

[SPY_jmr1]

Luke isn't the chosen one because he doesn't actively balance the Force, Anakin does. Luke inspires, as do Han and Leia (it was in one of those books, Chewie is the hero on the ground (he's the one who turns the tides by getting a walker), Lando and Wedge blow up the death star, and Vader kills the Emperors--now the Hero's from the previous films are the inspiration instead). Anyway, hope that all makes sense

 

yea that makes sence.

 

i'd like to add to that if i may.

 

if the OT has been a guide, it will tell us what will happen in the new/old movies. meaning, i.e. movie 1 = intro. movie 2 = very dark w/ cliffhanger ending. movie 3 = umm...... this is where my thery might fail, ep3 has to set up ep. 4-6.

 

lets go with your idea, about the heros standing back from the action. how might this work?

 

also one interresting idea was a idea about the number of conflicts per movie. by conflicts i mean things to resolve.

 

ep4 had one, the death star must be blown up.

 

ep5 had 2, luke going after vader, and the race to save han from boba fett.

 

ep6 had 3, the DS2, the ground battle on endor, and luke confronting vader w/ palpatine thrown in for kicks

 

ep1 had 4, the DotF battle (YES YES YES!!! real saber fighting at last!) the gungan battle, the fight to get to nute gunray at the palace, and the droid control ship battle.

 

this is: a very long odds point of interest. or lucas showing us more depth then we give him credit for.

 

if ep2 has 5 conflicts point 2 will just about be proven.

 

comments?

 

SPY

[Vestril]

You know I just ran a little mental inventory and I believe there are 5 conflicts in the new movie (I haven't read the book, I'm just going off of memories from trailers)...and for the record I'm not certain that the hero's of I&2 will be the inspiration in three...I don't think that thats one of the things that will be black mirrored (as in mirroring the first three but with a dark shadow rather than a light one).

[zaguria]

Originally posted by SPY_jmr1

 

this is: a very long odds point of interest. or lucas showing us more depth then we give him credit for.

 

SPY

 

I think that not enough people truely give Lucas the credit he deserves. He is a pretty damn good writer and in that sense I believe he would be capable of what you mentioned, being ep4 had 1 conflict etc. The only thing being is that would be pretty intense for even the best of writers considering he started it 20(or so) years ago.

 

Back to the issue at hand though. Do you think Lucas just added it (he will bring balance to the force) as a dramatic bit purely for entertainments sake and didn't realise that it would get so much attention or do you think he knew what the impact of saying that meant? Maybe only Lucas can tell us oh well.

 

Expanding on my original theory. Perhaps the whole 'He will bring balance to the force' thing was a prophesy concerning the future. Ok so going on what Beefshank said, light side + no dark side = balance, then I would propose that Anakin was meant to kill Palpatine before when he did (rotj) probably around episode 2. As Palpatine was already a sith lord in Ep 1 then the force was already thrown off balance, so therfore Anakin was meant to become the greatest Jedi Master ever and kill Palatine before he (palpatine) could do serious damage.

 

Instead Anakin gets tempted and sudduced by the dark side and doesn't kill ol' palp. However he kills him in the end thus forfulling his prophecy. It would also explain why Qui Gon and the other Jedi didn't sense that Anakin would turn to the dark side.

 

Hope that made a bit of sense.

[Jedi_Monk]

Since I saw SW1, I'd always thought that balance meant two Sith Lords and two Jedi. For the longest time, there was Obi-Wan and Vader on the side of the Sith, and Yoda and Obi-Wan reprisenting the Jedi--and when Obi-Wan died, Luke took his place.

 

But then, I was reading through one of the new SW2 books and I found a more complete explanation of the prophesy. It's not just that the Chosen One will "Bring balance to the Force..." but that he will "Bring balance to the Force after a period of great turmoil." So the termoil is obviously the downfall of the Republic and the annhilation of the Jedi; therefore, the termoil can't be the act of balancing and the two Sith/two Jedi theory falls flat. I think Johner is on the right track. It does mean that the balance will be one-sided in favor of the Light.

[Guest Forceflow]

This whole Balance Thing is really interesting. So far I see two big theories.

 

The classic one in terms on math:

The same amount of light Jedi as Dark Jedi.

 

In that case Annakin did NOT bring Balance to the Force in the End. He himself turned to the light side and killed the Emperor.

So, in this case there is no chosen one at all. Neither Annakin nor Luke then truly brought balance to the Force.

 

So, let's move to the second theory.

Balance means light side only.

 

In this case Annakin certainly messes up big time in fullfilling his prohpecy, but in the end he did. He killed the Emperor and turned, thus leavin no Sith to 'unbalance' the Force.

This leaves us with a 'correct' Prophecy, but one that seems quite unperfect.

 

However, I would like to bring a new theory into the field. (Or at least I think it's new)

Now, this theory is HIGHLY theoretical since I don't think there is actual evidences about it in the movies. But I would like to know everybodies opinion about it.

 

So, if we rule out theory #1 (since then there would be no chosen one, thus making this discussion rather pointless) why did Annakin vipe out all light Jedi save for Obi-Wan and Yoda?

 

That's the part that always ticked me off about the second theory. Why did he need to kill all other Jedi?

 

So, what if balance meant to actually start all over? What if the Jedi, while being all good and stuff, actually lost their true control? Being too much into their old ways. (Simply assuming the Sith were extinct, not wanting to train Annakin, and other things that Qui-Gon obviously didn't approve of)

Now, in that case everything does make sense. (In my opinion that is)

Annaking needed to join the Emperor to kill the Jedi, and he was needed to kill the Emperor. And once he did that he died, his life was dedicated to to give the Force a new start. Now granted, this is a rather aggresive and brutal way to do things like that. But Now with Luke being the only Jedi, also one who has seen the light and dark side, who almost turned, maybe he can give 'birth' to a whole new generation of Jedis, who can control the dark side, and who do not fear it?

 

I dunno, it somehow soundedd more plausible when If rist thoguht about it. Reading it over now... I dunno, it seems like I am missing something here...

And it is FAR feathced, I know. But still, think about it...

[Gaming Nut]

The lastest theory seems good except that luke certainly dosen't seem to approve of using or tapping into the dark side. He dosen't want rule over everyone sorta like yoda did saying you can't do this or that. But he certainly seems to take great pain to keep his students away from the dark side.

[thrEEpaGe]

I have not read the entire thread, and I am sorry if I am repeating something that has already been said, but I agree with the person who defended the position that Anakin is the chosen one. I think that this is true because of several reasons, in no particular order.

1) He is indeed very powerful in the force.

2) He brings balance to the force in that he destroys the Emperor, which saved Luke, the future of the Jedi ( Who really would believe that Leia could become a Jedi Master? Please! She is not Master material ). Had he not done that, there would be only Leia, and the Jedi would be gone for quite some time.

3) He slowed the Sith movement greatly and gave birth to a New Republic ( the semi-pun was intended ).

4) He gets on Padmé. ( That isn't a reason why he is the chosen one, but I wish that I was him )

[thrEEpaGe]

Originally posted by Gaming Nut

But he certainly seems to take great pain to keep his students away from the dark side.

 

LOL!!!

 

So Kyp Durron, Desann, and various others were just random anamolies?

 

Causing a star to go supernova is okay?

 

Luke sucks as a Master. Plain and simple.

[Gaming Nut]

You can't tell me he didn't try to stop them from going to the drak side. But he wasn't willing to out right shcool them and force them to comfor to him. If anything they would have turned faster seeing him as an enemy that knew nothing.

 

Also one turned back admitly not by lukes hand but he did turn back. Desann was insane to begin with IMO Also did luke even train him personaly it may well have been another of the frist jedi that trained him. Their by it wasn't his fault deasnn turned.

[thrEEpaGe]

The fact that so many of them turned is enough inclination for me to know that Luke was not made to be a teacher.

 

Yoda trained many many students, and there were not that many Dark Jedi Yoda Trainees.

[Kylilin]

here are my theories about this topic.

 

I don't really view the Jedi as "good guys" in any sense, I think of them more as peacekeepers, which doesn't necessarily mean good. I do see the Sith as "evil", but more so I see them as bringers of chaos. Good and evil are too abstract to describe the force. It should be explained as the birngers of order (Jedi) vs. the bringers of chaos (Sith).

 

Notice that in any of the movies, the term "good" is never used to describe anything to do with the Jedi. Although "Evil" is used to describe Darth Vader.

 

By this rationale, true balance of the force does not mean equal amounts of good and evil, it means the presence of order with no chaos.

[Guest Forceflow]

Careful, you get 'non-canon' sources mixed in here. Now, I know Lucas said that some of the books can be considered if they do not contradict the movies, BUT when Lucas wrote the original SW story he didn't know of any of the things that would happen after the movies. (After all he didn't write any of the books that happen afterwards) So in terms of this you really shouldn't mix that in here.

 

Luke saw it all ahppen, now it's up to him to rebuild the Jedis. And even if he again is afraid of the dark side, maybe that just measn it'll have to start all over yet again?

[ToppDog]

I think he brings balance to the force when he wipes out the Jedi leaving two each. It seems that when the Jedi talk of the prophesy that they don't really understand it's meaning at all. It seems to be a mystery, clouded & elusive. And it adds a nice twist!

[chrispcarter]

Originally posted by Beefshank

... That leaves 2 Jedi, and 2 Sith. Which is obviously, a balance.

 

That was my thought.

[Caldera]

Luke has been through a hella lot more than alot of the so called 'Jedi Masters' sitting on the council fanning their asses. The only exception is Yoda, who seems to have seen quite alot for his time (notice neither Obi wan or Qui Gonn are part of the council). You also forget that Luke has not trained with the Old Republic Jedi, and his only training has been a few weeks with Obi wan and a few with Yoda. However, in the Old Republic, Jedi's went to the Academy from BIRTH and trained their their WHOLE LIVES. Take this into consideration and you will see Luke is actually and unbelivable character, and his teaching is the best that can be offered at the New Republic.

 

Kyp Duron was like anakin skywalker. It's not the teacher that screws up, its the student. The teacher cannot enforce his beliefs onto the student, the student must make his own choice. It turns out that a few jedi prefer the dark path rather than the light. Especially since you bring up Kyp Durron who

 

 

has been influenced strongly due to his connection with Exar Kun, the CREATOR of the Sith. This is quite a force to be reckoned with if you consider Kyp Duron in the story line.

 

 

Luke maybe good, but nothing can stop the seduction of the dark side, and other powerful influential factors (read above).

[Guest Forceflow]

Originally posted by ToppDog

I think he brings balance to the force when he wipes out the Jedi leaving two each. It seems that when the Jedi talk of the prophesy that they don't really understand it's meaning at all. It seems to be a mystery, clouded & elusive. And it adds a nice twist!

 

But why does he unbalace the Force then again? I mean it is HIM who kills the emperor, not Luke...

[Jedi_Monk]

Uh, Caldera, Exar Kun was not the creator of the Sith by a longshot; he just revived it. He was a student of a great Jedi Master and was curious about the Dark Side--a curiosity that led him to abandon his master and go to Onderon where he came into contact with the spirit of a Sith Lord named Freedon Nadd. Nadd led him to Korriban where he lured him into a trap and shattered his skeleton, forcing Exar to commit to the Sith to be healed. Nadd's spirit put a kind of block in his head that made it impossible for Kun to use the Light Side of the Force.

 

Exar Kun wasn't creator of the Sith--he was the last of the ancient Sith. All of the Sith in the movies are members of a Dark Side cult created by Darth Bane a mere 2000 years before the movies.

[Johner]

Ok I can end this...most of you guys are idiots

 

I found out that balance to the force means NO SITH!!!! ONLY LIGHT SIDE!!!!!!

 

(seems pretty balanced no? )

 

Anyways I am very sure of this because people told me (who know what they're doing) that Lucas said this and it makes sense.

 

Anyways, the worst "theory" is that it means 2 sith and 2 Jedi when there are thousands of jedi in episode 1, then blah blah blah there is only 1 jedi (luke).

 

Since Vader/anakin really is the chosen 1 he restores balance by killing the emperor and turning to the light side (before he dies that is). So, since he's DEAD he can't go any further in restoring balance therefore balance is enough with NO SITH and 1 Jedi (luke).

[Kylilin]

I said that already.