Strong Stance = True Skill

[RamataKahn]

Alright you strong stance whiners, here's how it really is. If you are not a SS user and you complain about it you just are not a that great a player or you suck. You say it takes more skill to use med or light stance, why is that exactly? Because you can take more hits before you die? Please. All you are want is for the fights to last longer so you have a better chance of surviving, not because you are any good.

 

Strong stance is powerful, but it's slow as hell and takes a lot of practice to time your attacks just right. You also have a longer delay per swing. Saying that all you have to do with strong stance is run around and swing is utter BS. You all complain about the DFA move, but that's so easey to counter or avoid it's not even funny; you can see it comming a mile away.

 

For you guys who DO use SS and think it needs to be balanced, the only reason I can come up with is that you guys are fighting average or below average players and easliy owning them.

 

At any rate, it looks like the low skill players may get thier wish as it's rumored that SS will be tweaked in the patch. But know this, even if SS is nerfed so bad it's not even worth using anymore; I will still own the same guys I do now with med stance. Why? Because I'm just better than they are, and no amount of game balancing, tweaking, or nerfing will change that.

 

 

They'll just live a few seconds longer .

[Darth Iroel]

I use both MS and SS alternating them during the fight. I don`t think that a person that uses MS sucks. A lot of times with MS you can kill an SS player without many problems. Going back to your topic, I think that the SS is perfect as it is. It is extremely easy to counter and I don`t see the point for all the whining.

[RamataKahn]

I wasn't trying to say people who use the other stances suck, actually my thread is not titled correctly when you read what I said. My point was that no matter who much they "balance" the game because of whining, it won't change the skill of a player; which is the deciding factor in any battle. The better players will still own and the lesser players will still get owned, so why change the game when it won't change the outcome.

 

I can just see the players who whine after the patch saying "Yes! Strong Stance isn't any good anymore, now I'll kick some butt!". Then after getting destroyed by the same players again and again we'll see them back on this forum saying " Such and such force power/attack style is unbalanced! I just got owned with it X times! Balance it now!!!"

 

Just wait and see.

 

 

It's just annoying when you have a perfectly fine game and it gets unecessarily changed because of other people's lack of skill.

[Nill the Mean]

It certainly isn't the case that you can be "The Best" with just the red-stance. I use medium 90% of the time and I do just as well as people who only use heavy.

DFA is slightly unbalanced now... I think. I don't have trouble avoiding it but a few times when I used it I thought to myself:

"That was bloody impossible, how the hell did I manage to killl him like that?"

My saber was clearly sticking into the floor and the guy hardly walked over it. Sure you can just stay the hell away from the front of him but a little tweaking would be nice.

[WD_Rage]

I'm not a saberist. FF sabers just isn't what it was in JK1, but for the small amount of FF sabers in JK2 that I have played, the red stance just isn't all that hard to manuever around. I may have been playing newbs, but, geez, what's everyone whining about? Red stance is sllllooooowwww, so it's easy to see. That lunge is so easy to prepare for. I don't even let them close to me anymore. I just push them or roll away.

 

Nill, I do know what you mean. I find it hard to believe that someone could still kill me as I walk up to them after they have completed the lunge. I've also bee killed before before the saber was even close to me while my oponent was using the lunge. Those things could use a little tweaking, but other than that, leave it like it is.

[RamataKahn]

Nill, I see your point but that's a problem with the player hit boxes; not the power of the strong stance.

[Xenoeye]

DFA is very buggy right now.

 

It's not that hard to dodge but sometimes you do dodge it and just because your not well clear it still counts, even though it clearly didn't hit.

 

Im glad Raven are sorting it, come on... 2 hit kills?

 

It's not going to be nerfed BTW, the rumour is that it might be a little faster but weaker.

[Darth Iroel]

I agree with every thing you said (everyone of you). Anyway Ramata a tru noob, once the SS will be tweak will say "You can beat me now, because SS sucks!". I've seen too much stuff like this in counter-strike....

[Nill the Mean]

Good god I hope they don't nerf it... removing features from a game? D'oh! Bad idea...

There is nothing wrong with two hit kills though... If I get hit by a DFA and die instantly, so be it. I should have gotten out of the way then.

Surely they can just make a smaller "hit box" so that it is more convincing.

[GooglyMoogly]

LOL...put down that crack pipe.

 

I still can't understand why so many people defend the Heavy. If any of them bothered to read the NUMEROUS posts on the subject maybe they would understand that MOST people don't have a problem with the heavy itself..it's the people that don't know how to use it (and the dmg zone bug of course.)

 

I fight heavy users all the time (erm...how can you NOT??). If they show that they know how to use it and don't just endlessly spam the DFA it makes for a tense fight. It's the mindless/skill-less/endless SPAMMING of the DFA that is annoying.

 

As a side note..you are FAR MORE likely to "get lucky" with the heavy than any other style...this doesn't help your claims of it requiring the most skill.

 

Sure it's slower than the rest...but as soon as you start any heavy move I can't get too close to you since it's likely you'll hit me even if you aren't anywhere near me. I'll usually just move a round a bit until you are recovering then try to jump in with a hit....I've also found that if you time it right you can actually kick a DFA'er before the saber can do damage.

 

Anyhow..this debate will rage on for eternity...if Heavy is your thing, then go for it...just don't complain months down the road when you're getting your arse wiped by all the light/medium users because you never bothered to learn anything more than heavy.

[Aetherfunz]

Indeed, all I can do is agree with what everybody here said. The strong stance hits hard, but it's very slow when executing a move and the delay between 2 moves is also heavy. The Lunge Move also need long time to execute, hence it's good to evade! The only thing that should be tweaked is the hit box. Also noticed that with the spin-jump move over the opponent on MS, when just before the move ends he holds the saber in the air, and another player touched it, and died! That shouldn't happen.

But everything else is just perfect as it is. Just I'd wish Pull in MP'd better, so you can grab other players almost like SP (not that far and not so strong, but heavier than now...) and Force Absorb could be adjusted so that drain doesn't drain anymore mana.

 

Peace & Respect

-- Aetherfukz

 

 

The Force is my ally (and a powerful ally it is.)

[Hateplow]

[Elijah]

Originally posted by Darth Iroel

I use both MS and SS alternating them during the fight. I don`t think that a person that uses MS sucks. A lot of times with MS you can kill an SS player without many problems. Going back to your topic, I think that the SS is perfect as it is. It is extremely easy to counter and I don`t see the point for all the whining.

 

Ditto

[flippo]

ramata, no one complains about strong stance, they complain about DFA, and with good cause. DFAing in to a crowd and killing EVERYONE, isn't much fun. big reward for little effort.

 

in duels, DFAers are a joke. it's so obvious when it's coming and so easily avoided when it comes, it's not even worth the effort.

 

googly is 100% right about the luck thing, though. you swing, i stay away until swing is over. i don't dare go near you, for fear that i may get hit by a blade nowhere near me. now tell me, how is that skill? most of the time i fight SSers they switch to medium because they never hit me. if they do get me with a strong swing it's almost always because i took too many swings at them after the cooldown for DFA.

 

MEDIUM FOREVER

[Nill the Mean]

Word up.

[YoDa2k2]

im a MS user i used to wine about SS (when i frist got the game im sooo ashamed ) anyway i relly dont have a problem with it right now the ONLY 2 things i hate about SS are

 

1. DFA........ nuff said

 

and

 

2. I think its more fun and dramatic to have bolth people use MS or LS not that if i see someone useing SS i say "SS.. lol wore" (well unless they keep useing DFA) and its more like the movies than SS is

 

there is no "True Skill" Stance IMO i think the "True Skill" Stance is whatever the person is best with, if ur good at useing MS and suck at SS then use MS, and vise versa. I do think SS needs to be tweeked SLIGHTLY (slightly key word for those keeping track at home) just because of DFA and maybe the lenght of SS attack

 

btw i do respect ur opion on SS me being a MS user and to all the people whineing about SS being cheep or SS being The BEST stance... STFU! I HAVE A HEAD ACHE FROM ALL THE WHINEING (yes i am aware that i whined about it once)

[Solo4114]

As I've said elsewhere, I think that the major problems with heavy stance actually have nothing to do with the stance itself.

 

The stance is slow, cumbersome to use, but devastating in damage. Personally, I think heavy stance should be left mostly the same, with some minor tweaking (maybe make it faster, but weaker, definitely fix the DFA crap, etc.).

 

The real problems with the sabre stances lie elsewhere. The two biggest problems that I see affecting sabre duels are 1.) the speed of the players, and 2.) blocking.

 

1.) Speed of Players

 

It's not so much the forward speed that's a problem, it's that every other direction moves the exact same speed as forward. You can run just as fast moving forward as you can backwards or sideways. This wouldn't be a problem really, if the game was gun based, purely. But when you bring melee weapons into a game, you need to alter this somewhat. Otherwise, people can just run backwards and blast folks with lightsabres when using guns. Alternatively, in sabre battles, people can simply randomly flail about with the heavy stance (IE: on FFA servers), and keep backing up and staying out of range of their enemies until they time their swing well enough to hit. It's not all that easy to do, it's just not very INTERESTING or very much FUN in my opinion. Really, though, it doesn't take much true skill, to my way of thinking. Real skill involves more than simply timing when you mash specific buttons. Now, that's not to say that everyone who uses strong stance is skillless. Quite the contrary. People may use strong stance just as another option in fights, the way it's meant to be used. IE: at specific moments, when opportunity strikes, they switch to strong stance to deliver a given blow. The skillless people are the ones who simply run around doing nothing but strong stance swings, backing up if they miss, and continuing that pattern. That takes no skill. IF they slowed down the backwards speed, however, this likely wouldn't be much of a problem. Strong stance would have one more cost to using it, and would have to be used at moments when it's truly needed, not simply as a default move.

 

2.) Blocking

 

The other major problem with heavy stance use is the real inability to block well in the MP portion of the game. If people were able to block more, I think that the over use of heavy stance would diminish significantly. If, for example, light stance was able to block virtually all attacks, simply swinging a heavy stance attack at random, backing up, and trying it again, would become a tactic that most people would abandon. Lightsabre fights would require more thought, more strategy, and more of an understanding of the techniques behind melee fighting. The learning curve would be a lot higher, but the end result would be that skill, a good understanding of tactics, and practice would be the deciding factor in lightsabre fights, rather than simply whether you got lucky and managed to smack your opponent upside the head with a heavy swing. Heavy stance would become just another tool that rounds out the lightsabre abilities available to a jedi, rather than the dominant stance that it seems to be now. Passive blocking would help achieve this goal, and including a parrying system would make the sabre fights even more intricate and tactical.

 

If they added these two things and fixed the DFA bug, I think sabre combat would be a blast.

[Tree]

DFA easy to counter? No its not at all. You are a n00b who has never tried other stances.

 

Try playing against a DFA spammer using medium. It will be the worst game you have ever played. Because it is soo easy to doge but not to counter.

 

A one-hit one-kill move should have more of a drawback.

Right now people just spam it because there are no drawbacks.

I hope they totally nerf it. It absolutely ruins games.

 

I don't want just strong stance to be nerfed I want ALL the stances to be balanced.

 

Light stance is totaly useless. Aside from 2 special moves.

 

Light stance being useless and strong stance being overpowered are related. The lighter your stance the less range and power.

 

Anyone who says light stance is balanced is just plain retarded. You have to get way too close to someone to hit them with your saber.

 

Strong stance does have a slower swings but who cares. Anyone who isn't retarded knows how to swing while keeping it pointed at the person for the duration of the swing.

It's extreme range also keeps you so far away you can't move in on them.

 

Your fooling yourself if you think a slow swing leaves SS users open. Everyone moves the same speed. You slow down for maybe a tenth of a second before the swing is even completed. Before the end of the swing you are already moving at normal speed.

 

I think they should make all the ranges for sabers the same.

 

You strong stance users are kidding yourselves. Skill, HA! Besides that any one who defends DFA is just plain sad.

 

I've tried strong stance you can't miss with it and it does 100 dmg. You people should really give the other stances a try and you will see the obvious imbalances. Try playing No Force as well.

 

Its funny to see the "whining" on the other side now.

 

Im personally glad they are gonna balance ALL the saber stances. I'm going to be able to use light.

WWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOO HHHHHHHHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[mIRC]

These whiners make me sick. For some reason they just can't see the obvious. I'm not a DFA spammer myself but its easy to defeat them with strong stance and even easier with the lower stances. I don't see whats so hard about strafing, jumping, and/or pushing. Its really that simple.

 

I agree that the strong stance is true skill. The rest is flails and hoping to get a hit, and very annoying at that.

 

I have blocked the strong stance hits on many occasions so I don't see what people are talking about there.

 

EDIT: Also, there are not alot of tactics with any saber stance so I don't see why you're saying its not tactical with heavy.

[Kincade]

for a while i was trying to find the right saber stance. finally i found strong. it was great, i could kill people with impunity, 1-2 hits and they were dead. it was almost hard to die. DFA just made it completely retarted seeing as i could kill 2-4 people in one attack. just spin it around so it hits multiple people. this got a little boring; go into a ffa server, rack up 20 kills while the next highest person has 5-9 kills, resets, do it again.

 

a little disillusioned, i decided to try medium stance. wow, what a change. much harder to land blows, much less damage, but furious combat. i love this stance, it does enough damage and has enough reach to hit strong stancers sometimes(whereas light does not), but at the same time has a quick paced attack rythm. the medium special looks way cool as well. i don't get nearly as many kills with medium, but it is a hell of a lot more fun.

 

couple adjustments needed for DFA:

1. clean up the hit box so i'm not hit by a "phantom saber".

2. why should the DFA'er be able to turn in mid-air? you are lunging forward, not jumping up and spinning.

[Tree]

Originally posted by mIRC

These whiners make me sick. For some reason they just can't see the obvious. I'm not a DFA spammer myself but its easy to defeat them with strong stance and even easier with the lower stances. I don't see whats so hard about strafing, jumping, and/or pushing. Its really that simple.

 

I agree that the strong stance is true skill. The rest is flails and hoping to get a hit, and very annoying at that.

 

I have blocked the strong stance hits on many occasions so I don't see what people are talking about there.

 

EDIT: Also, there are not alot of tactics with any saber stance so I don't see why you're saying its not tactical with heavy.

 

Please by all means take a demo of yourself owning a DFA spammer. Even easier with the lighter stances? BAHAHAHA Ya right. what game are you playing?

 

What if they use absorb?

 

you think other players just flail. Its obvious you have never tried another stance. If you just "flail" you will get murdered.

 

Doesn't really matter the patch is out. Looks like you will have to learn some skill.

[Darth Wac]

Wanna know what I think is Bombad?

Check it: You start with Heavy stance, then after your swing is through, when the opponent rushes you to get a quick strike in, switch to MS or LS and slash em b4 they know what hits em... awesome tactic I saw someone do on a duel once and have since then refined it... watch fer me on the servers... cuz once you think I am a newb heavy swinger... then you are poodu. You can virtually connect all your swings and make fluid strikes from heavy to light to medium and vice versa. You just have to determine where your opponent is at, and how they will be defending/striking... if you want a demo... email me.