GreyJedi Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by Dvlos If you suddenly realize that you DO NOT fall into the above categories, DO NOT be surprised if you LOVE THIS PATCH. If you do fall into this category I await your next post, which should go something like this: Hey man! Who do you think you are! I loved JK2 before the patch NOW THE GAME IS RUINED I AM HAVING MY NAME LEGALLY CHANGED BACK from DeSANN to Jack Hanna. Medium sucks now!!! I used to use it to fool people to get close to me then DFA. NOT THAT I USE DFA ALOT. NO, I only drained/grip/pull/push then swing wildly in heavy. Well.. that's not true necessarily. I would DFA then medium finish. Hell when I wake up in the morning I DFA my face into the bathroom sink to brush my teeth!! BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!! I WANT TO KILL PEOPLE LIKE IT WAS A QUAKE3 GAME YEAH!!! I want to walk onto a server and just see bodies... I don't want to think about playing, just push FIRE and BOOM.. people are falling down faster than I can dookie streak my underpants. This patch makes me play, this patch means I have to think and change styles, and that OTHER people can kill me with LIGHT STANCE while I perform a DFA!! THAT'S NOT FAIR ... NYAH NYAH NYAH I HATE THIS GAME These are the same people that later, when an exploit will be found in 1.03 will be like: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SPAMMING WITH REPEATER SECONDARY MAN!!! ITS IN THE GAME STOP WHINING BECAUSE I ROCK YOUR SOCKS!!! STOP COMPLAINING!!! STOP AHAHHAAHHAH JUST GET ON THE SERVER SO YOU CAN DIE!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! By the way SABERS SUCK NOW!! HAHAHAH!! I LOVE THIS GAME BECAUSE THE GUN ROCKS" Simpletons. That was simply the most hilarious bit of imitation I have seen. Great job! So sad, but so true. Raven has patched the game according to what was suggested on these forums. It shows their dedication to the community. Constructive criticism is welcome, but demands and threats are idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazeFan Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I bet you're a red stance only player... I like the new stance versions, but all attacks should cause 25 - 30 % more damage , and make the heavy stance a hit of 95 health - for the game to be fun and satisfying more decisive battles need to be implemented. 95hps for a heavy stance hit? Why just heavy and not just add more damage to other stances too. I agree that some battles need to be more decisive but making heavy stance taking 95hps is ridiculous. You said it's more fun and satisfying... how so? Oh, one big heavy slash and follow by lightning or grip and the guy is dead. What so fun about that? I'm not complaining about red stance because I use it too, but my point is 95hps is waaay to much. The one thing that adds the most randomness to the sabre battles is the silly always block system that is about luck rather than skill. A manual block system is definately needed - with a manual block all strikes should be blocked except for DFA but the player blocking should move slowly as in the new grip and heavy strikes should send them reeling back or occasionally knocked down. Ok, I agree with you that the block system is way over done. I think it should be tone down a bit or make it manual where you have to turn your saber towards your enemy to effectively block. But then you state that all strikes be blocked except for DFA. WTF! Again, why just for the red stance? Instead make it unblockable for all of the stances special moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nill the Mean Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 This patch rocks. In the next patch I would like to see: 1. Less blocking during attack animations. 2. More damage done by saber on all attacks (apart from backstab if this one really is this bad now) 3. Smaller blocking radius for more realistic feel 4. FISTS! fistsfistsfists 5. A Gungan that you can hit with a stick 6. Jedi mosh pit mode where you only get FISTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippo Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 well obviously something must be done because as it stands, the community is divided. it's about a 50/50 split (down from my original 40/60) on like/dislike. and about 90% of the dislikers have actual valid reasons. not the dfa whiners or kick sluts, people of actual talent who had the saber mastered. you can say "master the new saber" all you want, it isn't possible. there is nothing to master. all you do is swing randomly getting either auto-blocked (70%) or doing a weak hit (30%). some people are sticking with the original and others have just flat out quit the game. me? i'm still playing 1.02, but it just isn't fun anymore because i know it won't last. eventually all server will be 1.03. or maybe they won't, maybe this patch is just so bad that people with stick with 1.02. action must be taken. the biggest complaint is, of course, sabers. raven will have to tweak this system. all the people fresh off the single player love it. people who have been playing the multi-player for a while now, hate it. when i played the single player it was a ball. then i join multiplayer and i was lost. but after a little (very little) while i could see how the mp saber system was much better. it gave you control over the saber. swinging in the direction you wanted to swing, spinning with finesse. now it's gone. you can't just let the old system grow on you then say, "oh it's changed, better learn this now." if the new system was better than yes, you could. but this system is like a giant leap backwards for the game. to raven i say FIX IT! appease your fanbase. return all stances to how they were before, minus DFA. DFA was the only thing wrong with sabers. everything else in the new patch you can deal with. the force powers needed to be tweaked. in short: fix sabers, leave everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDomino Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I think I largely agree with Idlemind here. It's an interesting concept that people bring up about movie fights. On the one hand, I understand the urge to step into one of those epic saber battles and play along. However, consider the following: first, and most obvious, those battles are choreographed. Like figure-skating or ballet, but with large lethal weapons. The only way to recreate that type of fluidity in an MP game woud be to get a partner and create a routine. Now, if you want to think of those fights as real, the jedis and siths in said battles have been studying for a lifetime (sans farmboy Luke) to become that "good". Now I don't by any means expect people to make a game a life calling, but the month I've heard others mention to develope skill sounds right to me. The movie characters also didn't have three stances (since saber fighting is largely based on japanese fencing they probably had 5 stances) an array of finishers, and, with the exception of a few Vader/Maul pushes and pulls, they didn't use force power in duels. The battles were also very horizontal, sure Kenobi and Qui Gon would jump to Maul, but once there it was back to the traditional hack n slash. This is why I think a class of "purists" has arisen who exclusively play NF duels, it feels more Jediesque. In essence, online Multiplayer and Movie fight scenes are wholly different animals. The broadsword analogy that was used also doesn't seem to quite fit in here, as a lightsaber does not by any means weigh what a metal sword would (or maybe it does, I guess we never really know what those little suckers weigh). And again, taking cues from japanese fencing, the overhead shoulder to hip cut was, if I remember, the hardest and most devastating cut. That was generally performed with longsword that many of you know as the "katana". The closest thing to a Japanese broadsword was the long Nodachi that was generally poorly made and used by less skilled swordsmen that needed an edge. I heard somewhere else in this forum someone suggest the addition of a parry. I think that this would instantly balance the current fighting style, and certainly add more dynamic to combat. Basically a power block that when placed correctly would either stun your opponent, turn away the tip of his saber, or both, thus leaving her open to an attack. A sort of penalty to being predictable, or a reward for the observant. Tell me what you guys think, I'm interested in other opinions about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nill the Mean Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Noooo... We shouldn't go back to the old saber system because this one has lots of added features. Read what ChanKhan said and you'll appreciate how much detail they added. The current system needs tweaking, we shouldn't go back to the old one. With some tweaking this patch has more potential than 1.02. Just needs less blocking/clashing and more damage done. But it definately shouldn't be nerfed. And... FISTS!!! And no manual blocking! I fear what might happen if that came into play. Block wh0res? Who knows... fine the way it is if they tweak the radius and clashing/blocking frequency. I think that toning down the radius would prevent unrealistic blocks. So you have to at least move your saber a tiny bit in the direction the attack is coming from. You would be looking at him, and move your saber slightly towards the incoming saber to block. I also think you should be able to block any attack but make spins/specials break down defenses. And less sparks! It is like a fireworks display now. Finally, the damage needs to be upped on all attacks and nerfed a bit on the backstab. More damage = more people die = more fun! Oh yes... They need to put the FISTS in! Yeah! Fists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbarker32 Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 i agree with flippo. the only necassary change was to make it so someone doing a heavy lunge attack cant turn. heavy style is practically useless now. the "hits" do minimal damage. before, i could hit someone and id know just a few light or medium hits would kill him/her. now everyone is just better off using light or medium, as heavy does just about as much damage anyway. Im also having troube telling if im even scoring a hit or not. It seems everyone always blocks. Im so angry.. id give anything if all the servers would go back to the old version. I really ENJOYED being able to take people out in one hit. I dont see whats wrong with this. using a melee weapon, its only natural that it should be possible to do the most damage with it. also i was wondering if anyone noticed that when you knock someone down with a kick, pull, etc, have you noticed you cant hit them while they are on the ground? you hafta wait for them to get up, after which they ALWAYS block your attack. bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halorin Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I appreciate the fact that Raven Software has taken the time to update the game and heed many calls for different changes, but I feel as if it was done in a distasteful manner. Many things that I loved about the MP experience is now gone. I was one of the many who wanted MP to be more like SP, but I think it's become worse than what it used to be. I like the new animations, they are exactly what I wanted. I wanted the tweaking of the DFA. But there are a few things in the game that I didn't think needed changing. Saber Combat: *sigh* I don't know how to really explain this. No, I don't want a complete revert back to MP, but I don't like the way it is now. The sabers now seem to do far less damage than they used to, thus making the games longer and longer, in my opinion, too long. I know people say that if you hit your opponent with the middle of the saber, the full damage is dealt. But how are you supposed to do that when everytime you swing at someone they block it automatically? In the pre-patch MP, yes, blocking was non-existant, but the balance of it has been changed entirely too much. Perhaps adding a block key would help. And if you blocked too much that your arm would sway out to the side and you'd be open for attack. Or just lower the percentage of saber blocking to a degree where attacks actually land and aren't so often deflected. I don't see why the tip of the saber blade would be weaker to begin with. If anything. I think that the swings should be weaker at the beginning and end of the swing, not the actual saber. Something seriously needs to be done about this. Prolonging these fights with random hits that you aren't even sure were registered has taken a lot of fun out of the game. Throwing's also another problem. It's becoming more and more of a one-trick pony manuever. All you need to do is constantly throw your saber and you most likely will win. True, the saber can be lost, but I've only seen it a few times and it's certainly worth the risk in my opinion. The so-called "janitor" move is also something that could be addressed. It deals entirely too much damage in comparison to all the other saber strikes. Either boost all saber damage, which I think is a better solution, or weaken the back manuever attack. Force: Alright, the biggest problem I have with the new patch is Heal. Drain still has some functionality, but.. why kill the Heal ability like it was? Twice the price for half the effect? I don't get it. I wouldn't have minded the doubling in force cost because yes, Heal could be pretty lame. But 25 health does nothing for me when I'm in a FFA fight. Nor is it worth losing all that force and not being able to defend myself with a push or a pull. Lightning has become a problem since the new patch. It drains life very quickly and is much more effective than sabering someone. And on top of that, it's a blanket effect. A combination of weakening its power and boosting the saber damage should be instilled here, in my opinion. Movement: A problem which I don't think was addressed was the speed of walking. I really suggest that the backpedalling speed be significantly slower than forward running. It only makes sense. It's very difficult to catch up to someone who is running backwards and firing either a gun or a force attack at if you both go the same speed. Also, as mentioned by others, I think the front jump kick should be an option whether or not to be a double tap or not. I don't know if the engine can handle the differentiation, but I don't see why you couldn't have it detect whether you were front flipping against a player or a wall. In theory, are we causing 20 damage to a wall with each front flip? I think you shouldn't have to double tap against a player, it's too hard to be picked up by servers and it takes away a lot of the functionality of the move in general. I'm sure there are other issues that I can't think of at the moment, but those are the most important to me. I'm not whining, I'm merely giving my opinion about the patch. I feel that a lot of the fun in the game was taken away with the changes to the patch. All of these suggestions are positive critiquing, in hopes of a better game and product. You've taken a step towards a better game Raven Software, but the pedistal of complete and well rounded greatness is far from achieved in this patch. FYI, I've merged the thread you created into this official one to reduce redudancy. -- Canoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 After playing another few hours with the patch, I noticed that the low-damage of the sabers isn't because they are toned down... Due to the fact that most direct hits are blocked now, most saber hits are at hte beginning or the ending of the slash, wich do a LOT less damage. While this system is fine, it's really overdone, I think the difference in damage between the beginning and ending of a slah should be minimal, a difference of five AT MOST. This will make the sabers almost as deadly as before, but will reduce the one-hit-kill slashes of the red stance a LOT, since you'll be doing only 95 damage, only if you have a perfect spot-on hit you'll get the full 100. I think THAT is the biggest problem (after the overly EXAGERRATED blocking). Also, pure estethically, I think the old saber system played more smoothly, and above all... it took LESS BANDWIDTH... Yes, with the new patch the saber strokes seem to use mor bandwidth and give you a higher ping. I really noticed the ping difference on the servers I play most on. Where I used to ping 30-40 I now get pings of 80-90 !! (and no, this is not internet traffic or something, I tested this throughout the entire day). Yet another reason to go back to the first MP saber style, or at least for FFA games. It seems fine when only 2 people are duelling in a duel server. Oh yea.... the possibility for more than just 2 people to do a protected duel in FFA would be more than appreciated, I reckon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nill the Mean Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Indeed. Boost up the damage and reduce the blocking frequency. Also reduce the sabers clashing during attack animations. It is cool and everything but not in these amounts. And the smaller blocking radius, which I mentioned a million times. AND... fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithcloak Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I find multi-player dueling a whole lot more enjoyable except for a little bug where the game freezes when someone throws there saber! I'm using windows XP and every time that I join a server where saber throw is allowed the game freezes on me and I have to shut down all power and reboot. Its very annoying. Except for that little bug it seems fine. Sithcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nill the Mean Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistssfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistssfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsf istsfistsfistsfistsfistfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfi stsfistsfistsfistsfistssfistsfistsfistssfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists fistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfistsfists And less saber clashing during attack animations Less sparks Smaller blocking radius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Stop it with the post count ++ spam please. We get the picture, you don't have to repeat it over a thousand lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippo Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 ok, just got done playing a little 1.03, even though i said i was boycotting. the new system isn't utter trash like i said before, now that i've gotten used to it. but it still isn't as good as the previous system. i now see the problem extends beyond medium, which was all i cared about, but to saber combat as a whole. the whole affair just seems toned down. simplified if you will. instead of DFA whores there are light lunge whores. thankfully it's just as easy to avoid as DFA. as of now my this is my beef: saber combat consists of just swinging at your opponent. yes you can still try and time your swing and slash straight from shoulder to hip, but almost everytime it will be blocked. also, the new damage model. the whole idea of the begining and end saber crap is just a terrible method. when i swing and manage to hit you i want to know, "ok i just nailed this guy now he's at about x health." i dont want to think "ok i managed to hit him, i wonder if it did full or weak damage." i mean come on, it's a lightsaber! THEY HURT! everyone is saying it's more like the movies, well i only saw 1 time someone was hit with a lightsaber and didn't sustain major damage: when luke hit vader's shoulder right before he cut his hand off. also, spinning should go back to it's old glory. by this i mean, make it as easy as it used to be to go into a spin. you can tone it down or limit the number of spins in one go, but down make it compleletly impractical as it is now. wishlist: fixed damage amounts, decreased autoblocking, easier but limited spinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiell_Randor Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 First of all Raven, thank you for the effort obviously put into this patch. It offers some improvements over the original version of the game. That said however, there are some major problems that I feel need to be addressed. I can make NO comment regarding any changes made to the guns side of thing, as I am leader of a sabers only 'clan'. Heavy Stance: First of all, you got heavy stance right! It is finally well balanced. The special is harder to do, and the attacks themselves do a more reasonable amount of damage. Medium Stance: Removing the continous spin capabilities was a very good move. The stance plays more like it should be now. The BIG problem: the 'backstab' move in medium is a guaranteed one-hit kill. We tested it this afternoon, and someone with 100 health and 150 shields died in one shot every time. Light: Too fast. It is unbalanced now. The original speed of the style was about right, but now the player moves around like a ferret on crack. Slow it down to something akin to its original speed please!! Blocking: The increase in blocking was a very nice move. However, simultaneously decreasing damage was a very bad move. What you effectively did was, make any fight take forever. Two people who are at completely different skill levels can still take literally minutes to finish a duel. And then when fighting multiple opponents, all hope is lost. It used to be that if you were _good_ you could take on 2, 3, 4 people at once with a hope of winning. A few very well executed moves could even the score up quickly. Now no matter how many well executed moves you do, they will eventually wear you down. If you kept the increased blocking, but upped the damage a LOT, you could make it so that if one person is far more skilled, they can win quickly. If the two opponents are even, it will make for a much longer battle than pre-patch. This is how it should be. Here's crossing our fingers for some life back into the game for saber fighting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithcloak Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I agree with you on most of your points Kiell_Randor except for light. I think its fine how it is, maybe its just the smallest bit fast, but not enough to be really noticible. Of course I never used light much. I stuck with medium most of the time, and still do. Sithcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myst Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I agree mostly for one major point: Up the damage on slashes. I also find that blocks aren't the main concern (although the blinding light is annoying), it's just that when you do get a hit, the damage is too low. As for the guy who was saying that he wanted to know exactly how much the opponent's health was after hitting him...that is a dumb idea. The sense of ambiguity is so important and IMO better since you won't just throw a saber or a quick lightninig just because you know health is low. And even at the moment, it's not too difficult to tell whether a guy is at 90-100, 40-60 or at 30 or under. But to know EXACTLY what health is just insane and should not be easy unless it's people with much experience. BTW, those afraid of absorb should NOT. Any half decent drainer can use drain for about 1 second to check for absorb and even tho it gives light extra force power, the time absorb was on is not even worth it. In many fights, I attempted to get drained with absorb on so I can get force points to heal myself. Unfortunately, they did not do enough draining to get me more than where I started. Absorb is not easily abused I assure you. But yes, these definitely need fixes: -Increase lightsaber damage for all stances (only slightly) -Decrease blocking radius (blocking frequency only slightly lower) -Not as much of the blinding flashes from clashing lightsabers. It should spark flatly, but it's not an explosion. Who would be happy with these changes only? Please think of how further changes would affect the game even more after these changes came to effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borf Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 They're being mean to me, i own half as much with medium as i used to and i'm having trouble with the flipkick, i mean, who waits infront of you while you tap the key twice, my only hope is the side kicks, which are "okay" BAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I purchased JK2 because I heard the MP aspect of the game was excellent (the game went gold pre-patch, incidentally). I took the game off the shelf and bought it because of the MP mechanics that existed when it was released. Now, as if I were a free Alpha or Beta tester, the combat system is altered beyond recognition. I purchased this game off the shelf, let me make this very clear, based on what I had seen, read, and heard about it. I did not purchase the game to take it home--March, April, and now May--to have saber combat completely changed by the first patch. This is an extraordinary decision on the part of Raven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazeFan Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Things I like: 1) Running backwards = slower 2) Less blocking and more saber damage (maybe a compromise in both aspects from pre=patch to patch) 3) Fists (Kinda goes with the jedi vs merc mode if that's supported in the future) 4) Less sparks (it's not a light show) 5) Less lightning dmg (overpowered compared to the rest) 6) More ammo or make it so that it doesn't consume as much ammo (but not so low as in the pre-patch) 7) Tone down backstab (again seems overpowered compared to the rest) That's all I can think of now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippo Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 he's at about x health about x health. i never said ok 70 hp gone 30 more hp. and it's not like this is a new system. it used to be like this. damage now is ridiculous, you have no idea how much damage your doing. you could be doing 1 from just running into him with the saber, or the weak damage, or full damage. what kind of system is that? it's a system that rewards swinging at your opponent mindlessly, hoping to not be blocked. and yes fitz, well said. i don't buy games that don't have kickass multiplayer. if jedi knight ii was realeased in its current form, it would never have been on my shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Preach on, Brother Flippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myst Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Although it may be difficult sometimes to know how much damage you've dealt from a blow, this too has some good points. In this manner, it makes the fight continue to be highly intense, since you never know if the opponent is near death. But this is all about opinion so we cna't really "judge" on it. However, a system that delas 1 damage everytime you walk into a lightsaber or get "singed" is better than losing 5 DAMAGE everytime this happened - which was the case in pre-patch. Lowering it down to 1% made a big diff and acutally LESSENS the amount of slashing around and strafing back and forth hoping to hit people blindly, since 1% each time is too long to try this. Post patch FORCES you to actually get good cuts into people and not just swing in the bold hopes that the tip of your lightsaber hits the enemy and deals 30%. This was insane, and has been fixed. Again, blocking and saber damage are the main things to fix right now. Saying the 1 damage is something extreme or worse 'new' is comepletely wrong. It used to be 5 damage. Forsythe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idlemind Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 flippo I think you're spot on. Being able to determine and remember how many times you had hit your opponent was a learned skill. One that set aside newbs from skilled players. Knowing your opponents health you could adjust your attacks accordingly. For example, if you thought that he was at 40 or below, you might try to finish him with a jumping blue uppercut. Or you could do a DFA to LURE HIM IN!, switch to blue, then do a surprising uppercut as he tried to hit you when he thought you were vulnerable (I loved to hear people complain because they thought I had killed them with the delay from DFA when in fact it was a blue strike). But now alas, this type of carefully planned attack would be ill-advised to say the least. I have no idea how badly hurt my opponent is. I may as well just keep trying to backstab him or swing wildly rather than like say, actually adjust my attacks to the rhythm of the fight. There is no rhythm anymore. And to whoever made the comment about us being like Beta testers I couldn't agree more. They completely changed MP saber combat on us for no real good reason. I have yet to hear a cogent argument for why yellow was changed so drastically. The only reason I can see for why blocking has been increased was because either 1) people complain about getting hit, so raven makes it so its ****ing ridiculously difficult to land clean hits, or b) people wanted it to be more like the movies (an ass-backwards argument for reasons previously expressed.) People say the new system isn't that bad, but that's not the point. This gigantic revolution in saber fighting was completely unnecessary. Only DFA needed to be fixed. Why should I even bother to get better at this new patch when I have no assurances that Raven won't completely change the system again in the next patch? I really don't enjoy spending large amounts of time developing skills that are rendered obsolete in one fell swoop. harrumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 the new damage system enhances the gameplay.......i mean hell it makes it seem less like a game(to an extent ) and keeps saber fights intense. geez stop complaining and get used to the new system, its better than "ill spin around randomly and watch my saber go through the other persons and kill them" i have to conclude again, that you people must HATE single player if you dont like this, which just doesnt make sense at all. also you know why raven did what they did....BECAUSE THEY LISTEN TO THEIR FANS........many people wanted this change and they gave it to us, many are pleased, ppl who are complaining just dont want any change at all it seems. so what if the old combos works, its just a slight adjustment. hell yellow stance was NOT messed up.....i still use it and it works just fine for me, if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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