Official JK2 1.03 Patch Thread!

[idlemind]

Originally posted by Corpse

the new damage system enhances the gameplay.......i mean hell it makes it seem less like a game(to an extent ) and keeps saber fights intense.

 

geez stop complaining and get used to the new system, its better than "ill spin around randomly and watch my saber go through the other persons and kill them"

 

i have to conclude again, that you people must HATE single player if you dont like this, which just doesnt make sense at all.

 

also you know why raven did what they did....BECAUSE THEY LISTEN TO THEIR FANS........many people wanted this change and they gave it to us, many are pleased, ppl who are complaining just dont want any change at all it seems. so what if the old combos works, its just a slight adjustment. hell yellow stance was NOT messed up.....i still use it and it works just fine for me, if not better.

 

Firstly, I'm willing to be convinced that the new damage system enhances gameplay. I laid out why I thought the old system was better for gameplay and gave a couple examples why. Please give me reasons why not knowing how much damage you just did helps gameplay, instead of just stating it as fact. The only reason I can see from here is that you think it makes combat more "hectic" or "chaotic" or "edge of your seat" because you can never be sure if the other guy is really hurt. But if I wanted a game that left me in such a state of confusion I would put a blind fold on and play 1.02. Then I would never know if I was winning, if I was losing, how I hit the other person etc. To me this follows the same line of reasoning. So seriously, tell me if your reasoning differs from my "blind folding" parody above.

 

And look, I know I'm complaining and probably being too vehement about it. Take it as an indication of my love of 1.02 saber fighting. This ferrari of melee combat was just ripped away from me by the very salesman that sold it to me in the first place, and was replaced by an el camino. And to make matters worse I have people trying to convince me that my combersome new automobile is in fact better than my ferrari. You're damn right I'll fight to get my pimp ride back, and harbor a degree of ill will towards those who weren't using the ferrari to its potential in the first place and as a result believe the el camino to be its equal.

[Myst]

Many of the things you've learned pre-patch that you can no longer "use" post patch are mostly abused parts of the game.

 

-Turning DFA

-Touching an opponent with the end of your blade when in heavy stance

-Switching stances to account for opponent's health

-Random swinging. To those of you who still do not know, parrying is actually possible and I've been killed a few times now when I am swinging away madly when the opponent makes a good block - my arm goes way back and I am totally open.

 

In Pre-patch:

It was said that you switch to blue because he has little health remaining. You do this in pre-patch in order to swing as fast as possible and get just a single hit that will be enough to win the fight. Now, since it "seems" harder to gauge an opponent's health, you must fight with the style you believe will deal damage to your opponent. The game is no longer BASED on how much health is left, but EMPHASIZED on countering the opponent's sabering stance, style and skill. This IMO is a change that is GOOD.

 

If you think that post-patch is all about random swinging, that is wrong. It totally contradicts the fact that blocking is so easy. If it's so easy, that means random swinging is just gonna be stopped. You NOW NEED to really aim the shots and do combos to force the blocker to be unable to stop your attacks. Pre-patch still required aiming for the opponent, but again, the only concern was amount of health remaining, not in actually getting solid hits.

 

As for the game changing dramatically, hey, lots of peeps are gonna stay v1.02, so don't you worry. Also, I still believe the change, although great, was beneficial to stop abuses in the game, and in the long run, will be more fun.

 

As someone said above, he played single player, then went to multiplayer and was "lost". Already this proves that the person enjoyed single player dueling enough and was out to play it online. So it was obvious that he would've still enjoyed the game if MP1.03 was in fact the retail version of JKII MP.

 

However, Raven changed the game dramatically and for this main reason, they should continue work on patching 1.02 separately from 1.03.

 

Myst

Myst

[Perniciosus]

Originally posted by MrDomino

The broadsword analogy that was used also doesn't seem to quite fit in here, as a lightsaber does not by any means weigh what a metal sword would (or maybe it does, I guess we never really know what those little suckers weigh).

 

While I understand your point, I do disagree. Look at the way strong saber style is treated in the game both pre-patch and post-patch. Strong style sabering in the game is like swinging a very heavy broadsword, not like weilding a katana. If the latter was the case, then all three stances should be equally as fast with only a change in stance animation, various specials and damage doled out.

 

But that's not the case at all. Medium is slower than fast, strong is slower than medium. Ergo, I believe my analogy of the strong style being like a broadsword is quite appropriate and, as such, I still hold that making it hard, if not impossible, to change directions midswing with the strong saber style is a major improvement.

[Myst]

idlemind is right. They should definitely patch 1.02 separately as it is, in too many respects a different game altogether from 1.03.

 

The ferrari is a different game, but to say the JKII el camino (v1.03) is garbage is wrong. The patch is great, and already I see the complainers are mostly against the major change, rather than any "unfairness" created by v1.03.

 

I understand your situation, and I'm sure 1.02 will continue to be played separately.

 

Myst

[Maugan_Ra]

There is a reason why the single player system is different.

 

Because most of the time in SP, you aren't playing against some sucker with a lightsaber. All you want to do is just hack a limb off some guy with a gun. When you FINALLY come across a guy with a lightsaber *OOOH CHANGE OF PACE, GOOD FOR SP CAMPAIGNS* then you want it to last longer than 5 seconds. You want to make it seem like you're in the movie, acting out the parts of Luke and Darth.

 

When I'm in multiplayer, all I want to do is kill the guy before he gets to my flag. I don't want to make it look pretty, hell, I don't even want to square up first. I'll kick him to the ground and eat him up. If you can't figure out a defense to my strategy, then guess what, to bad for you. Fact of the matter is, in 1.02, I could pretty much deal with any strategy that someone threw at me. DFA wasn't that big of a deal, it was slow enough that if you saw it coming, my grandmother could have gotten out of the way. Drain was fine. It was not that powerful. It was weakened by the fact that you are relying on someone elses force power to give you life... something that you have little to no control over. At first, I was sick of hitting a drainer, then having him run away only for me to chase him while he drained me... I figured out a way around it.

 

Saber combat is a joke. I conducted two experiments tonight, with both versions, and found conclusively that the new version promotes reckless swinging in chaos modes. (FFA, TFFA, CTF) while only dragging out duels (which sucks for people waiting in line, I want to play, not sit there). I should not be able to sit in a corner and just block everything that comes my way. Thats ridiculous, and insulting to those of us that actually learned how to time our shots. If Raven's idea was to tone down saber fights, then they succeeded. If I wanted to play an FPS where the close combat weapon was nothing special, then I would go play SOF2, which is another disasterous thing to roll out of Raven.

 

I never complained about the first version. So don't tell me that I've been asking for a patch, then I'm complaining once I got it.

 

If you indeed find my post to be whining: then answer me this, who orders the most whine and cheese? Those who complain about aspects of the game that they can't figure out how to adapt to, therefore producing a patch; or those who never had a problem with anything to begin with, and complain when they feel that their $50 investment was just ruined?

 

I'll reiterate what someone said before, if this were the original game, I would not have bought it.

[Perniciosus]

Originally posted by Maugan_Ra

I never complained about the first version. So don't tell me that I've been asking for a patch, then I'm complaining once I got it.

 

Very well said, Maugan. I've been saying the same thing for a while now. I never complained about any aspects of JK2. The overhand kill annoyed me, yes, but I learned to adapt. The drain/grab/smash whores annoyed me, yes, but I learned to adapt. I never sent anything to Raven or LucasArts complaining and I never posted any complaints on any forums.

 

Now that things have drastically changed, I write my grieviances and opinion - and they're generally flame free - and I'm always sure to put why I feel the way I do... and I get immediately called a hypocrite! I'm a hypocrite for complaining about the changes I never asked for, never supported, never *needed*?

[Myst]

Why would anyone commit "reckless swinging in chaos modes. (FFA, TFFA, CTF) " when most of it is blocked??? Reckless swinging makes it EASIER to block, so why would people do it? Because they are still used to old pre-patch style. Sure, the good guys like us know that aiming the swing is critical, but most of the medium/newer players didn't know this or completely believe it that they still swung wildly. Why would you be afraid of wild swings, if as you say you fought an entire duel blocking for godknows how many minutes if it so easily blocked in 1.03?

 

ALSO, anyone who's played this game at a decent level will tell you that DRAIN was certainly NOT WEAK, and most likely overpowered before the patch.

 

Do not say the patch is bad. It is good way more than it brings bad. The only problem with it is it changed the game too much for some, and hence they don't enjoy JKII as much. That's why there should now be two versions of this game played online.

 

Myst

[Maugan_Ra]

Drain was weak.

 

There I've said it.

 

The ONLY way that it is effective, is if the target has force power to drain.

 

Once I've concluded that I'm playing a drain whore, I'll simply make sure that I don't have force. If he drains one, two bars, that was ok, he's getting 5 health. In the meantime, I USED to be able to use medium stance to kill them while they were busy trying to run away. Sadly, they only run more often now (in my experience)

 

While the drain/grip combo was particularly dastardly, absorb more than did the trick really. Once again, I didn't find any of the elements in the previous version to be that out of balance. I was perfectly happy with my purchase, and now, I'm feeling like someone stole a ferrari from my driveway, and replaced it with a yugo.

[hswarrior]

My thoughts...

 

I never had a problem with the old version...although it took me a good week to get the hang of it. heh After just finishing the game...I found the dueling much, much different. I learned to deal with the heavy DFA users and found that anyone only good at ONE style could be figured out and defeated. I've found the really skilled "jedi" were folks that were good with all styles.

 

I played version 1.03 for a good 4 hours tonight. I have only played on Duel servers with No Force...so I can only speak about saber dueling. The first map was good'ol carbon from Empire Strikes Back. I won my first 9 matches pretty much using the same techniques and methods I learned the past few weeks. You win quickly against newbie players...esp. those who swing crazily like drunken jedi. Against the skilled players the dueling was great. You have to be smart...think on the fly...change stances at a moments notice and it felt a lot more like the game in SP.

 

Notes:

 

*Light stance has a use now...(it actually always did...just no one thought to use it because a skilled red stance player would almost always win)...the backstab is a one-hit kill...but it's hard to land.

 

*Yellow is still good for being almost as fast as blue and dealing a fair amount of damage. The only thing that you can't do is a continuous spin move. You definitely have to plan more. It is harder to win with just yellow now. I'm not sure if I like it as much as the "old" version. The med. special is used a bit more now since DFA is not as successful...but it's easily countered. The spinning back slash is hard to master but is a great finishing move.

 

*Red stance isn't used that much now...but it's still good! If you ONLY use RED you will get beat for sure. But if you switch it up in mid fight you will be deadly. Red still takes at least 60-70hp with a direct hit. And since no one expects DFA...you can definitely surprize people with it once in awhile. Like in SP, I tend to use mostly blue and yellow...but certain maps Red makes fights a lot shorter.

 

*I never knew how much HP was left when fighting in the old version or this one...so I always had to "guess". I'm pretty sure when I've gotten a pretty good hit in and I've "felt" when I've gotten someone in trouble or on their last legs. You just have to be able to tell the difference between a solid "hit" and a glancing blow. I like it...in the old version just touching the guy with Red stance saber and you lost 75hp or died. This way feels more realistic...get max damage for full hits...part damage for glancing hits...couple of hp off for touches.

 

*More saber-locks! Fun, fun, fun. The fights seem longer...but I really don't think they are. Look...in the 1.02 ver...players were so afraid of being hit even once...they would circle and jump and wait and DFA over and over again hoping for that one hit...or swing and step back over and over and over...the match could go on forever. NOW...it seems more folks are getting into it with each other...taking a hit...giving a counter in return. The fights are actually shorter and better IMO...just takes more hits to win...usually. With the one-hit backstab(blue), med special, and the DFA...there's still a lot of quick fights too.

 

If you were skilled before...you should be even better now. I took what I had learned from the last patch and with a slight adjustment I won at least 3 maps tonight (record for me). Now newbies can't get a lucky DFA kill by doing it over and over again. Two skilled players have awesome duels. Throwing together 2 or 3 different combos together to get a good hit against a great player makes you think you have the force flowing through you. Making things up on the fly against an awesome player and barely winning with 1hp left...you can't get any better than that. It's much more fun than...whoops...I stepped on his saber...I'm dead. lol

 

Anyway...I enjoyed both versions...I just think 1.03 captures the JKII game a lot more.

 

Just my .02 worth.

 

BTW...for those that like the old version better...can they keep playing it? Just wondering.

[Myst]

"If he drains one, two bars, that was ok, he's getting 5 health. In the meantime, I USED to be able to use medium stance to kill them while they were busy trying to run away."

 

How can you catch up when he is running at the same speed as you backwards while draining? Most of the drainwhores you've played obviously did not know how to move backwards.

 

It's even on this post, most people agree that Drain was too effective and not weak. But go ahead and say whatever you want to say, after all, that's all that matters.

 

Forsythe

[toolboi]

Id like to say that I rather like the patch now that Ive gotten it working. I LIKE the changes to yellow, it feels more like it was supposed to now (longer, wider hits with fewer spins), blue is now good (its as yellow was pre patch) and red... well I dont know the dammage it does, but if its doing 2 swings a combo Im guessing that its doing less dammage (maybe 80 a hit?). Red is still too strong though its faster and still does insane dammage (I was amazed when I went against a bot who had litted me to nothin and just... chopped... to wipe him out).

 

Now all these changed GREATLY enhance duels but...

 

What about the rest of the game? How will this effect CTF or FFA?

[idlemind]

Originally posted by Myst

Why would anyone commit "reckless swinging in chaos modes. (FFA, TFFA, CTF) " when most of it is blocked??? Reckless swinging makes it EASIER to block, so why would people do it? Because they are still used to old pre-patch style. Sure, the good guys like us know that aiming the swing is critical, but most of the medium/newer players didn't know this or completely believe it that they still swung wildly. Why would you be afraid of wild swings, if as you say you fought an entire duel blocking for godknows how many minutes if it so easily blocked in 1.03?

 

ALSO, anyone who's played this game at a decent level will tell you that DRAIN was certainly NOT WEAK, and most likely overpowered before the patch.

 

Do not say the patch is bad. It is good way more than it brings bad. The only problem with it is it changed the game too much for some, and hence they don't enjoy JKII as much. That's why there should now be two versions of this game played online.

 

Myst

 

here is why 1.03 promotes reckless swinging. Because you can try all you want to time your yellow or blue or what have you, but it will most likely be blocked. So upon noticing that no matter how carefully you try to hit them when they are supposedly open they block most of your attacks, you logically employ the two options that yield the best results.

 

a) switch to blue or yellow and try to get as many attacks in as possible by holding down attack and charging. It doesn't matter how well timed they are since everything getting blocked anyways. What matters is that you throw so many swings at your opponent that your small percentage of hits that actually make it through is larger than his small percentage of hits.

b) do backstabs which are for the most part unblockable and do enormous damage.

 

So FFA's descend into four fighting styles, with various combinations of the four possible. First, there are people running around with blue or yellow on going crazy (as in they are holding down attack and running madly at groups of people). Second you have people running around backwards trying to score deadly backstabs. Thirdly you have the poor saps who are trying to incorporate yellow combos into the game. they invariably learn not to do this and switch to backstabbing. And finally you have people who throw their sabers at groups and get many kills since the throw does 30 damage, arguably more than you can get with swinging a saber in someones face these days.

 

And Myst, when I said I swithed to blue when they had low health, I specifically said I did it to use the uppercut, not to crazily swing at him till he died. Now, you could call this uppercut "cheap" or an "abuse" somehow because it would then kill him with one stroke, but what you call an "abuse" I call skill. I think there has been an abuse of the word abuse here. when people get killed they assume it's because someone is abusing some flaw in gameplay, when instead the person that killed them is just using what is in their arsenal more effectively.

[Myst]

Yes, you can play with 1.02 still and most servers are still 1.02.

 

My guess is that if 1.03 is recognized more, about 30% of the servers will still be 1.02. unless a patch comes out, in which case

no one knows what'll happen.

 

If you like 1.02, keep playing it. B1tchin about 1.03 will only lead to a new patch will probably be bad and against both what 1.02 and 1.03 people want. At least for now there will be both playing 1.02 and 1.03.

 

Forsythe

[Myst]

"Now, you could call this uppercut "cheap" or an "abuse" somehow because it would then kill him with one stroke,"

 

When did I ever say that?

 

All I said is that now the fighting is centered around getting good, solid hits, rather than focusing on how much health remains.

 

I can tell ya right now, blocking is not as bad as what you see in SP. In SP the blocker's arms stayed relatively constant. In MP there is more rebounding effect so wearing down a blocker's defense is not as hard as you think. Especially slices from the side, those are hard to stop.

 

Myst

[idlemind]

actually you didn't say that did you? Nevermind then carry on.

 

[CooLJoE]

Thank you Lucasarts you flippin morons!

 

You guys had a great game going here and you changed it for the worse.

 

I recently got very good at saber-only servers. Kept my score within the top 4 on all maps for CTF (cept when I go defensive for a map).

 

Now I log on today to find that my favorite server went to 1.03 and has no one on it. The server is usually packed and hard to get into. So I wander over to a new server thats saber-only and start to play for the first time with 1.03.

 

What do I find? That I'm turned off from playing JO completely. I even heard others saying they they are now addicted to NOT playing JO.

 

Look what you've done! On top of that I can't even get my self NEAR the top of the score charts. And my tactics have all gone bye bye. I killed maybe 2 people in 1 round, when I usually kill tons. And I noticed 1-hit kills are now easier to execute and harder to defend. Usually the jumpkick would be a good way out, but its hard to execute that now. And I noticed that when I use absorb, I don't see it. So I run around forgetting I have it on until I hear the quiet sound of it being used (which is hard to do when all you hear are sabers and death sounds).

 

All that you guys have done is reward the newbies by destroying the top gamers tactics and skills. You evened out the playing field except for those who mastered the 1-hit kill (which is what MANY complained about and you didn't deliver a change to).

 

So thanks Lucas/Raven. You have just lessened my online JO MP addiction big time.

 

With this change, I'm gonna have to stop recommending the game to any of my friends (of which many wanted to buy the game soon). And one of them had been looking forward to getting it. Guess he won't anymore.

[Myst]

Uh, yea I did:

 

"In Pre-patch:

It was said that you switch to blue because he has little health remaining. You do this in pre-patch in order to swing as fast as possible and get just a single hit that will be enough to win the

 

*starts here*

 

fight. Now, since it "seems" harder to gauge an opponent's health, you must fight with the style you believe will deal damage to your opponent. The game is no longer BASED on how much health is left, but EMPHASIZED on countering the opponent's sabering stance, style and skill. This IMO is a change that is GOOD."

 

Look and READ at my post above if you want confirmation.

 

Myst

[Maugan_Ra]

be prepared for the onslaught of people who feel that because Raven says so, you should adapt to an entirely different style of play.

 

I wish there was a smiley.

[Myst]

Most people here, including me say that defending IS EASIER now because blocking is quite easy. However, coolJoe says that

 

"I killed maybe 2 people in 1 round, when I usually kill tons. And I noticed 1-hit kills are now easier to execute and harder to defend. " <---- DEFEND is harder now??? 1 hit kills are also a rarity now since only one or two moves one hit kills...if ANY.

 

________________________________________________

 

And you’re right Maugan, except I’m not one of those people. If you read my post above it says,

 

“The only problem with it is it changed the game too much for some, and hence they don't enjoy JKII as much. That's why there should now be two versions of this game played online.”

 

Nice try tho

 

Myst

[Maugan_Ra]

Its not all that big a deal really... the same people that used the old DFA are the ones using the new one. Like I said before, if you don't like it, figure out a way around it.

 

Thing is, it was alot easier to see the old DFA coming, I mean, theres a guy flying at you with a look on his face like he want to skewer you.

 

You'd think that seeing a guy walk into a fight backwards would alarm you, but when your stuck in the even larger chaos mobs that this saber combat has created, you're not paying attention to what direction someone is facing really. It may just be me.

[CooLJoE]

Myst - Well, I just got done playing a few maps with the new patch. All that I noticed was that I was being killed easier with the 1-hit kills. I used to complain about it at first, but like many others, I got better and was able to avoid/counter it. Now Raven goes and makes Medium stance harder to use (my usualy stance), and the 1-hit kill became easier to perform (from what I've seen). I am happy that the start/end of saber swings doesnt hurt much at all, but the 1-hit kill thing needs to disappear. I'm having people pull it off and kill me with 1-hit while I have 100hp and 25shield (basic amount you start with).

 

Kickflip isn't too hard to learn. I still pulled it off on many people, but it did get hard to use and most people are able to back away before I get the 2nd key-click.

 

I guess me and several others just had no problems with the pre-patch version. The only people who really complained were those who had no clue how to defend from being pushed/gripped/pulled off ledges. And when we told them to absorb or use force push back (works against grip very well), they just came back with "light side sucks". Like thats an excuse.

 

Force heal is fine with me. Didn't effect me then or now. And for those who thought the pre-patch force heal was lame, you guys just needed to learn how to kill someone properly. I used to have long duels within CTF games and neither me or the other guy complained. Infact right after one of us was killed, both would usually say "good duel" or "nice kill".

 

I'm just mostly upset with the crappy changes made to the sabers. I guess now I'll just have to go to servers with Sabers AND guns and whore the guns. Saber-only has just become too depressing for me.

 

Pretty much all this did was cater to the newbies/whiners from the pre-patch era. And now it has created a whole new bunch of newbies/whiners. And unfortunately I'm falling into that category.

 

And if you don't like my opinion, tough luck. I HAVE played the game with both patch and no patch. I have also been playing games like this for a long time and have never seen as horrible a change as this. Not in starcraft, not in tribes2, not even in the entire Quake series or UT.

[Myst]

Well, I'm gonna play both 1.02 and 1.03, don't know about the rest of you guys. I like the new system, but the old system was a classic and I'm not giving it up.

 

Guys, just go play the version you want to, and neither 1.02 or 1.03 servers will die off, since as someone said, it's about 50/50 of the people who like/dislike the new patch.

 

Myst

[D.L.]

Right, I played online with the patch for the first time last night.

 

It's a huge improvement (but then again you knew that)

 

We had no drain/grip whores thank god!

 

Red Stance was used still quite a bit but it's more blockable now (I was useing Blue last night as a test to see it it's worthwhile)

 

I will admit there are a few whores trying to do the backward stab now but in all fairness if you can't see what they are planning when they are backpeddling towards you, you deserve what you get.

 

To be honest, most of the people online are just idiots (in my experience)

 

Playing on Bespin and I thrashed them in a 20 limits, 8 person FFA. How!? Not one of them used Force Push. They were all using lightning or drain (still)

 

I saw one other person using push. That was it.

 

The sooner people adapt to this the sooner everyone will have a beeter time online.

 

Duel Server: Had some excellent saber fights. Lost this 10-5 but damn it was a great game. Saber fights last between 3-10 minutes. No more running away and hiding to heal here. Great!

 

Just get used to the patch. It's very cool.

 

I'm not too worried about the other weapons. If I want to blow someone apart, I'll go play Q3.

[idlemind]

Originally posted by Myst

Uh, yea I did:

 

"In Pre-patch:

It was said that you switch to blue because he has little health remaining. You do this in pre-patch in order to swing as fast as possible and get just a single hit that will be enough to win the

 

*starts here*

 

fight. Now, since it "seems" harder to gauge an opponent's health, you must fight with the style you believe will deal damage to your opponent. The game is no longer BASED on how much health is left, but EMPHASIZED on countering the opponent's sabering stance, style and skill. This IMO is a change that is GOOD."

 

Look and READ at my post above if you want confirmation.

 

Myst

 

myst I have nothing against you but you aren't making any sense. I had originally said that you said that blue uppercut was cheap and an abuse of a game flaw. I then rescinded said statement when I realized that you had in fact never said any such thing. This was basically me saying "my bad". i.e. when I say "you're right you never said that" this is what I am referring to. And if you look at the quote above you never mention the blue uppercut. I think we are just getting carried away here and not really reading things carefully, either of us, so lets just chalk this up to some trivial misunderstanding and move on ok?

[Nill the Mean]

Yes, let us all move on!

 

I say we all do our best to make the people who hate the patch enjoy it! Let's help them get around their problems with it, and then if they still aren't satisfied let's concentrate our efforts on addressing the issues that need to be tweaked in the next patch. I'm totally positive that Raven will fix the last big problems in the next patch.

I think the game needs a nice balance between 1.02 and 1.03 saber combat. Since so many features have been added to 1.03 it would just be silly to go back to 1.02 saber combat permanently. We would lose out on a bunch of cool things that will be even better after the next patch! I admit it will probably take quite some time before the next patch arrives, so to get back to my first point: Let's all do our best to make this game as enjoyable as possible for everyone.