TWF Holds off on 1.03, RAVEN LISTEN UP!

[WD_ToRMeNt]

http://www.teamwarfare.com/

 

Basicly they're saying that they've got so much negative feedback from the competative clans that they're not requiring the 1.03 patch, all TWF matches will remaim 1.02 untill further notice.

 

Raven, you'd better fix all this or the competative communty in JK2 will die.

 

Un-nerf the guns and forces.

[JSM]

OH NO!!!!

 

Clans don't like it?? This is terrible!!! Chaos!!! The world will end!!!

Raven will forever shut down!!!! Their failure to please the clans will destroy them all!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

[GRIMLOCK]

personaly i dunno what all the hubub is about since you guys asked for it.

Personaly, i like it, but then agian, i don't play amidst whiners, only friends i know who understand how the game works, not just how our twisted minds want it to work

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by GRIMLOCK

personaly i dunno what all the hubub is about since you guys asked for it.

Personaly, i like it, but then agian, i don't play amidst whiners, only friends i know who understand how the game works, not just how our twisted minds want it to work

 

Who are you talking to? If you're talking to us:

 

1. We didn't ask for anything.

2. Whiners. Because of their whining this patch was made.

3. We understand how the game works. We have ever since it's release.

 

JSM, there are more than freelancers like yourself that play this game. I have no objection to any saber "tweaks", but if Raven is going to cause an across the board nerf, then they need to have input from EVERYONE, not the whiners that complain they don't have force because they're too stupid to realize how to counter drain or because they get blasted on a gun server while they're using a saber.

 

Some of us play other forms than just dueling. CTF and TDM were playable. Now, both are severely crippled. Lighties have the upperhand on every map and every game type.

 

It is the competitive spirit that kept JK1 alive as long as it did. Since all competition has been nixed by this patch, it's only a matter of time before JK2 dies. You can sit around in 10 minute, no-damage saber fights. I want action.

[Fyunch Click]

Actually, if I may interject, let me explain in non-whining terms why the TWL has not decided to implement the patch for competitive play. ( BTW if you think there aren't many people playing, there are over 64 teams competing on the CTF full force ladder alone, generall with over 10 members per team. That is a lot of people)

 

The main reasons have to do with the ammo amounts and usage.

On most maps ammo for guns is in short supply, this was originally implemented to help balance the guns against the sabers. The respawn rate for the ammo is actually quite long. It takes time for ammo to respawn and you cannot pick up ammo by running over a weapon. This makes defending a flag or an objective very difficult. It also makes attacking an enemy flag carrier very difficult as he is likely to be using absorb and speed.

 

Usually defenders will put on speed as well but they will be a second to 2 seconds behind the other player and will be unable to catch the flag carrier. The flag carrier is using absorb so force powers are useless against him. Thus, they NEED guns. The alternate fire of the guns allows the defender to use splash damage giving the defender a much better chance of killing the flag carrier and returning their flag.

By reducing the number of shots it reduces the ability of the defenders to defend, both as the capper comes in for his flag run and as he leaves the flag area with the flag.

As you are only playing with 5 people on a team, you generally only have 2 defenders. 2-3 people are playing Offense or mid-field. They are focussed on disrupting the enemy defense and capturing the enemy flag. They will, of course, try a last ditch effort to kill the enemy flag carrier but are generally not loaded out for that type of encounter.

 

I know your first response is: Let them aim better. But, as a flag carrier myself, let me say this: My duty is to NOT MOVE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. I jump, i dodge, I roll. I move backwards. I do everything possible to confuse their aim. Therefore the defenders NEED splash damage weapons. The thing the patch has done has limited the competition aspect of the game.

It has improved the public game aspect possibly, I do not know, I have found no public servers running it yet.

 

The saber combat is not what the TWL is complaining about. On the contrary, they welcome the end to the endless DFA spamming.

They welcome the end to the constant drain spams.

 

I personally like the saber combat and most of the changes. I wish the heal hadn't been so drastically changed but I can adapt.

 

The reasons above are why the TWL is not adopting the patch for team competitive play. I have tried to give you a non flame filled version of the facts as I see them and from a team-competitors view.

 

It is your right not to agree with me. I just ask that you not personally attack me.

 

LoS- Fyunch Click

Team Captain, LoS- CTF FF, Sabers Only JK force level TWL Ladders.

[AssKicker]

BTW raven.... if u don't realize this... Sabers get boring really fast I playeD jk 1 from the start... Sabers were not what kept the game going .... for 4 yrs what kept the game going was the fast action from guns and Force ...not sabers that had 2 swings....Get real if you piss off the gun users this game will last 3 months then die... because saber newbies will get bored within months and this game will die.

[Fyunch Click]

JSM,

 

The point of the game is Force powers and the light saber yes.

 

But in team competition, there are many tools. You use the force and guns at the same time, much as you would a lightsaber and the force. Not everyone uses a gun in a CTF game. If you took that from my post then I was not clear.

 

The issue is that an option has been limited. That causes a limitation for competition. Not everyone uses a saber constantly in multiplayer. Sometimes you don't bring a knife to a gunfight. It just isn't healthy.

[D.L.]

Originally posted by AssKicker

BTW raven.... if u don't realize this... Sabers get boring really fast I playeD jk 1 from the start... Sabers were not what kept the game going .... for 4 yrs what kept the game going was the fast action from guns and Force ...not sabers that had 2 swings....Get real if you piss off the gun users this game will last 3 months then die... because saber newbies will get bored within months and this game will die.

 

That's because the saber in JK1 was a glowing flashlight and it sucked. This saber is a lot more realistic. I rarely used the saber in JK1.

 

I never used guns in JK2.

[cig]

The flipkick, that now requires hitting jump twice is impossible to perform on other players. Near impossilbe to combo after hitting someone with it as well.

 

The special hop that used to be done after performing a flipkick doesnt exist anymore either. Hop was used to set up other moves. It was done by simply jumping immediately after you did a flip kick, you could hit your jump as hard as you wanted an would never jump high, you would just do the lowest jump move that was in the game allowing you to set up a 2nd move as you hopped towards your opponent.

 

The blue saber attacks are way too strong, you can backstab someone with a blue attack now an kill them out right at 100 health.

 

Changed the flip kick back to the way it was, for the love of god!

As it is now its worthless, its just not possible to get it off consistently. I dont even see why you changed this at all. It was one of the few things seperating the newbs from the skilled.

 

Make it so we can control the saber attacks better, blue an yellow attacks are still too uncontrollable. Let us be able to control the saber spins, right now its just flailing lucky strikes that wins the duels. Its stupid. I think all the stance attacks need to be slowed an swing animation be changed to longer, wider swings. Red attacks are the only truely controllable swings. We need a wider variety of attacks like the BLUE stance Crouch+Forward+Attack, and the RED stance Attack+Forward+Jump.( I know there is a yellow one but it sucks) The reason the Red one got used so much wasnt just because it was deadly, it was also one of the few swings you could control very well.

 

I want to be able to combo some moves, for instance, I hit yellow stance I saber spin, as that move goes off i change to blue and do the crouching attack as the spin ends, then i change to red stance as the rising crouch attack ends I do the red strike(A+F+jump) to end the combo. Can kinda be done now, but the moves dont really flow together. And its tough changing between stances like that. Or just give each stance their own combos like that.

 

Force powers are ok, for the most part now, except being able to push, pull, and grip people to their death off of cliffs, etc. into bottomless pits is still way too easy.

You should have to be very close(as in close enough to get hit with a saber) an have your opponent in your targeting sites in order to push, pull, or grip no matter what lv of power your force is set to . A crouching opponent should be harder to push, pull or grip. While Crouch Rolling you should be immune to push, pull, and grip. Push and Pull on some lvs( I think its the street one an the warring factions or whatever, the bottomless pit ones) is way too strong we just need better ways to defend against them.

 

The light side has a counter to push, pull(absorb). The dark side doesnt unless you have full force power an drain them to nothing. But if your fighting a light jedi he can put absorb on now the only thing a dark jedi can do is run away or he stands there an gets pulled to the ground an killed quickly. Allow dark rage to be more of a protection for push and pull and possibly change it from its current effect(s).

[JSM]

sorry, accidentally deleted my own thread.

 

anyway, yes i too wondered why jk1 lasted as long as it did. the sabers simply weren't good at all in jk1, and its not true to say that after a while nobody played with sabers, because i last played it online a couple of months ago and there were plenty of saber battles going on, even thought there were only two attack modes, and the effects could never touch JK2

 

i have no intentions of using guns in MP for JK2 either, and again there is nothing wrong with those who do. /Edit/ i guess when it comes down to it, its just a simple difference in preference:cool:

[WD_ToRMeNt]

JK1 lasted as long as it did because no other game out there could match the extreme gameplay of Some game settings of JK1.

 

I played FF BGJ for 2 years because it was just awsome. Judging by the way the forces work in JK2, Raven had no idea what made JK1 the best game ever.

 

This patch destroys any playability or worth of FF that JK2 had in 1.02.

[JSM]

It did last long, but there are far more people playing JK2 than JK1 now, so Raven obviously did something right. If the game is weakened by the patch, why don't you just stick to not using it?

[Comatosan]

Why is there so much hostility to people who wanted the sabers balanced? They voiced their opinions and got heard, now do the same and voice yours.

 

I'm sorry that the guns got nerfed, I really am, but if you would take the time to organize the clans together and present your case to Raven, I am sure they would listen. It's not necessary to come here all pissed off and throw insults around. Hell as a saberist only, I'll argue the case for you, if what you say is true.

[AcceptableRisk]

Maybe you guys could stick to 1.02 and Raven will fix everything in 1.04? Raven must see that the weapons are too weak. It might be a very good thing if they made a gameplay mode for Weapons Only. That way you guys can have your game and the rest of the saberists can have their own.

 

While sabering seems to be the predominant feature in JK2, and it is in fact the reason why I got it, you have to sympathise with the gun users.

 

I got this game mainly for force powers and a light saber, but I really miss the weapons from JK:DF2. The rail detonator in particular, as well as the repeater, which was completly ruined in JK2:JO (inaccuracy..).

 

After reading some of the threads here, I tried taking on some bots in the FFA Bespin level with guns and they seem severly muted, nevermind running out of ammo really quickly. There's not much originality either, if they weren't taken from JK then they were stolen from another game. (flak cannon, rocket launcher). Part of the reason JK was so cool was the uniqueness of the weapons.

[Mormegil]

Speaking of CTF, JK1 had an intelligent CTF level called the Challenge at Nar Shaddaa. Now there's something missing for JK2.

[HSChronic]

I say that heal needs more tweaking. Right now heal is not even worth the points you put on it. A good system for heal would be the following. Drain should have a similar system implemented.

 

 

Heal:

 

Level 1: 10 pts, 1/3 force pool

Level 2: 20 pts, 1/2 force pool

Level 3: 35 pts, 2/3 force pool

 

Drain:

 

Level 1: up to 20% health restored with full force pool

Level 2: up to 30% health restored with full force pool

Level 3: up to 45% health restored with full force pool

 

 

Also we need more CTF levels, only 4 levels IS NOT ENOUGH WE WANT MORE LEVELS. There should be at least 8 CTF levels. Also the guns were too nerf'd only about 1/4 of the ammo should have been changed. Yes the game is about light sabers and force but at the same time that is why there is a sabers only mode, so that you don't have to worry about people being retarded with guns. If people don't want guns play sabers only, its not in the game to not be used. If you take the ammo down make either 1. More ammo on the levels, or 2. change the ammo respawn times so that they are more abundant allowing for aduquate ammo supply.

[Father Ruckus]

Originally posted by JSM

OH NO!!!!

 

Clans don't like it?? This is terrible!!! Chaos!!! The world will end!!!

Raven will forever shut down!!!! Their failure to please the clans will destroy them all!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

 

LOL i agree....i played in a JO match. It was boring regardless. Just quake with the force, whoopee. Best compitition game is tribes.

 

I play JO for Pubbing, dueling, and 2v2 duels. If i wanna use guns i'll go play Quake or UT. If i wanna play a tactical comp game i'll hit up some tribes.

 

edit: also its TWL not TWF...Team Warfare Ladder/League(either or) not Team WarFare

[muffo]

Look, seriosly, this patch is generally GAY.

 

just because people discover tactics that work, they change it!

 

lets all remove the rocket launcher from quake 3 and the colt from CS... see my point?

 

i can acept the DFA move change, thats an improvement for sure, but strong saber style is now CRAAAAP!

 

"oooh, but its too powerful"

 

yes, thats why IT COSTS MORE BLOODY POINTS YOU IDIOT!

 

did nobody realise this???

 

andd now heal is GAY, it was useful to heal rapidly between fights, now i have to wait 10 mins, let the leader get an extra 5 kills before im ready to go again, not that i should bother, just put on blue style and stand there = all attacks blocked.

 

why do u suppose that saber attack has POINTS???

 

did u really think blue style would be better than red, blue at 1 pt, red at a total of 14 pts...???

 

get real, i didnt spend the points for a piece of crap style

 

bloody gay patch, i dont even want to play anymore, i spend ages learning techniques and styles, what happens? they become useless.

 

say goodbye to half the JK2 community

[Sir Losealot]

Originally posted by muffo

Look, seriosly, this patch is generally GAY.

YOU IDIOT!

bloody gay...

say goodbye to half the JK2 community

 

I would like to kindly notice, that this is not a Ku Klux Klan board. We don't hate and kill gays and black people here.

 

What if Luke is a black gay who has made a cosmetic operation? By the way, my congratulations on your sociological research, resulting in discovering that the half of the JK2 community are white, non-gay people and the other half, black, bloody homosexuals.

 

I am also sorry to hear that white, non-gay community is going to leave the game because of black, animalistic gays. Another question is whether we should allow Muslims to play JK2. I would need some help and input from you muffo, on this one.

 

But seriously, I stopped playing JK2 three weeks ago because of the game imbalances. After the patch, I started to play again and I mostly like it.

 

I guess we should say goodbye to half of JK2 community and say welcome to the other half. There is no loss.

[Luc Solar]

We will all miss you muffo. I can't see how anyone can go on enjoying the game now that you're about to leave. :(

 

LOL!

[MrCrusher]

Then the clans should continue to play 1.02 amoung themselves. This patch is a vast improvement for the Jedi theme. It is only you and your clans that stand to lose.

 

....Play it for a week or two then you and you clans will have grounds to complain.

[TheDarkSide]

Here is my response to those 'competitive' ladder climbers/clan match types.

 

I respect your opinion, but in reality only two weapons were nerfed, and in fact they weren't made any less powerful, just made so you had less shots of the alt-fire.

 

Anyways on to my main point...I've raised this in other threads with nary a single response. How many UT CTF ladders use the original 4 maps that came with the game, how many Q3 CTF ladders use the original maps that came with the game? I suspect that they don't. They use primarily widely acclaimed user made maps that are much better than the original maps.

 

If your primary complaint is that there isn't enough ammo to alt-fire the repeater a sufficient number of times, that is easily remedied through new maps that are made with more ammo. Sure those maps need to be widely distributed, but you're telling me if a well-designed CTF map were released with enough ammo to make you happy again, it wouldn't spread through the "competitive" gaming community like wild-fire?

 

 

Fyunch, your above points about flag cappers using absorb and speed are valid ones, but in my mind, that's why JK2 CTF is inherently problematic. Much better, but not widely played is CTY. Essentially CTF but with the capper not allowed to use force powers. You can't use force powers on him per se, but speed and rage are your new best friends as a defender. Why hasn't the competitive JK2 gaming community jumped on CTY with both feet? It requires ALOT more teamwork to cap the flag.

 

One last point, you 'competitive' guys are acting like CTF has become unbalanced because you feel you can't defend your flag adequately. Well actually the game IS still balanced, since the other side has that restriction too! If your flag is now that much easier to cap, then theirs is too, and in fact tried and true strategies in CTF work even more effectively (like using your enemies ammo regens so he can't get to them, etc). You may claim that you don't like what CTF is in v1.03 , but you cannot say it is unbalanced. If one side had more ammo then the other, then you would have a legitimate gripe.

 

Just my opinion...no flames please, just civilized responses.

 

Thanks,

TDS

[Father Ruckus]

Funny how the #1 team on TWL full Force CTF ladder is going to play 1.03 and not 1.02.

[Bwana Dik]

For cripe's sake, people, listen to yourselves!

 

THIS IS A GAME!

 

This is not a way of life!

 

What would your mother think if she read these nasty, gramatically flawed essays? Shame on you!

 

By the way, if you weren't so busy whining about the new patch, you might be PLAYING, and learning the new strategies! You have just been given a new game that is excellent! Play and shut up!

[Beefshank]

I just find it strange how so many people freaked out so quick! You guys (well the guy that started the thread and others like him on other threads) seems completely unable to embrace change. You can argue all you want about how the new saber system levels the playing field for noobs, but I personally haven't noticed anything like that. I won more fights than I lost before, and I still win more than I loose. The fights do take longer now, but so what? One 10 minute fight is as good as ten 1 minute fights. Somebody up the thread doesn't like long fights, and says he needs "more action." So I guess "action" = kill to him, as opposed to "action"= action as in long ACTION PACKED fight.

And even if it does even the playing field, SO WHAT? If you guys that claim you are so good really are (and I know your not or else you wouldn't be complaining, you'd be hoening (sp?) your already practiced skill) then letting noobs compete closer to your level will give you more challenges (i.e. more good fights). So I guess you don't want lots of good fight? You want lots of kills against new people who are just starting out? Oh yeah, you guys are great players.

 

 

 

Finally, I hate to break it to you. But MOST PEOPLE in every game DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR CLAN THINKS! You are a very small percentage of the people playing any game. Now I don't think there is anything wrong with clans, but when you post or talk like you actually carry weight BECAUSE your in a clan, it just makes you (and your clan members because of you) look foolish.

 

It's just a game, and you are just big-egoéd geeks who think you're important. Play, patch, don't play, don't patch. But know you getting laughed at. Sorry.

 

By the way, this post is in no way indended for "Fyunch Click". You posted a great Point of View from a clan, and were very nice. I hope to see you in a game some time!