Sorry, boys: MP still sucks.

[Fnord]

I imagine I'm going to receive a lot of flack from nay-sayers for being so critical, but the fact is that JKII's MP sucked before, and it sucks now.

 

I have to seriously question the intelligence of anyone who could call the game "balanced" in its previous iteration, though it must be easy to tell someone else to simply "get better" at the game when you're the one abusing its flaws. Much like the AWP'ers of CS, JKII's Drain-whores were no doubt the ones pleading that Raven leave their little baby alone and not give it a much-needed nerf (though Raven perhaps did too good a job). Not wanting to be biased, I can also concede that non-stop Healers were every bit as slutty, and the overuse of the Strong stance can be laid squarely upon their shoulders; after all, what else can bring down an enemy that constantly runs and heals but a one-hit wonder?

 

Even most Light siders will admit that Heal was a crock, and I persnoally think Raven did a splendid job tweaking it. Drain, on the other hand, was a power for the self-proclaimed elitist, and anyone with the wherewithal to recognize its blatant problems was simply called a whiner. That anyone could completely drain an opponent's Force pool with less than half of their own, all the while backpedaling as fast as their pursuer could run forward, should be pretty telling as to just how stupid the whole system was.

 

And let's not forget the whole push/pull thing in tandem with kicking. While admittedly fun, it doesn't take a whole lot of $kill press a few buttons, and push/pull remains some of the game's most glaring flaws.

 

The problem lies in the lack of viable defenses. Regardless of wether or not you've got one, two, or three ranks of push/pull, and regardless of whether you're standing still, running, or attacking, a point blank push/pull is going to put you on your ass. Period. I've tested it over and over and come away with the same results every time. Where once morons would throw DFA all over the place in hopes of getting a lucky hit, players are now devoting their entire strategy to putting you on the ground and smacking you with a Strong backsweep. I've tested it, and it works.

 

I give Raven a lot of credit for actually listening to the community and putting forth the effort to make a better game, but while the mechanics can be so easily manipulated and exploited, MP duels will continue to flat-out suck. I no longer see any point in attempting FF saber duels; there will always be at least one jerk that's going to do nothing but pull, and the moment he does, there's the sweep.

 

Raven was too quick to please with this patch and apparently didn't take the time to see to it that it works. The effort is appreciated, but some genuine balance and fair play is necessary if this game is going to succeed. Better luck next time.

[Hateplow]

Yeah. Once they nerf some whore power like drain or heal and DFA people will just move on to the next best thing everytime. Its sad. Of course, people who abuse these powers such as pull/swipe can be avioded by playing in a NF server but its still a pain in the ass to have to cater to these *******s bent on ruining a game as soon as possibal.

[Hateplow]

oh, and for all former DFA whores:

[Tree]

Yup I'm with you guys.

 

I thought after this patch people would be forced to actually learn how to use sabers.

 

I was wrong they just found something else to abuse.

 

I do applaude Raven for listening to us. The problem is when Raven puts things through balancing they don't think "hmm whats the most whorish way I can get kills requring the least amount of skill."

 

People now use the back stabs in strong and light stance. Your wrong though they don't need push/pull to do it and still f you up. Its just worse with push/pull. Protect doesn't even help.

 

Guess now I will have to wait for another patch.

I don't blame Raven I blame the community.

 

That is very well thought out and true post.

[JediCrow]

So No Force Sabers continues to be the way to play. No surprise to me.

[Zek]

Solution to Push, Pull, Drain, Lightning, and Grip: Absorb. If you're playing the Dark Side, you knowingly open yourself up to the above moves, and you have no right to complain.

[LooNBB]

They need to do something about throw as well... It is becoming the mainstay. Run Throw run throw run throw...

 

Yawn.

[Zek]

If you lose to a throw whore, you deserved to lose in the first place. It's more predictable than any saber swing, so it's extremely easy to block.

[Patton]

People suck? SHOCKER.

 

I'm sorry, but you guys are asking for way too much at this point. You're asking Raven to effectively make one of the COOLEST moves in the game useless. From the little I've played with the patch, backstabbing isn't any easier to do than it was before, and if you run backwards in an attempt to do it, you end up looking like an idiot.

 

Many people don't care about looking like an idiot or not. They don't even care about having fun. They just want to win. This is where "whores" come from. There is a reason I don't play JK2 online. I play with bots, and I play at LANs. Why? So that when someone is being an idiot jerkoff, I can go and punch him in the face. There's no anonymity to hide behind, so people just play to play.

 

My suggestion is to stop complaining all the time. You CANNOT rely on Raven to make changes to a game simply because people abuse it. People are that way. They're dicks. They're losers. They're selfish. This is humanity, and I lost my faith in it a long time ago. Stop taking the game so seriously. Find a good server to play on, with people that are there to have fun, and you'll find that - patch or no patch - the game is fun to play. Play with dickheads, and it sucks.

 

And for god sake. If you're gonna bitch at someone for whining about the new patch, don't turn around and make a new thread whining about backstabs. You'll sound like a big-headed, mouth-breathing, drooling, idiot. Not pointing fingers at the topic starter, this is just a plea to everyone to make an attempt to NOT BE STUPID.

[hyrit]

Ugh, I promised myself I wouldn't post about the patch, but here goes...

 

At least when people were DFAing, dumb as it was, it was at least resembling something a Jedi might do... But now I commonly see people head into battle walking backwards. I don't see people pull and swipe...I just see them back into a crowded area and swipe, killing 3 people at once. And is it just me, or is the backswipe pretty much unblockable?

[Zek]

Patton, let me share a little scenario with you, okay?

 

You see someone in heavy stance(or any stance, really). You run up and swing at them, and much to your irritation, they immediately pull you and you fall down. Then they turn around and do the heavy backswing. Boom, you're dead, regardless of whether or not you had 100 health 100 armor, and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

It's the same for the Medium and Light backstabs, the heavy one is just stronger. Even without pull, it isn't really that hard to hit people with them; certainly not hard enough to justify the insane damage.

[Ferox]

both heal and drain suck.. and for that matter so does force period.. thats why i love my nf games . the real fighters are in those servers.

 

but btw since your complaining about the dark side... you dont see dark side people able to run around invisible using jedi mind trick do ya? personally i think drain balances that out pretty well.

[[SICK]OLMofo]

Well seeing as the Gunners are totally excluded in anything jk2, this game is binned for me as far as MP. Its gotta be the biggest joke I've ever seen since RTCW. How many excuses are players gonna give b4 they realize that the game just sux's as a MP game.

 

And play CTF in JK2? LMFAO! Sorry I wont be playing this crap anymore.

[Patton]

Originally posted by Zek

Patton, let me share a little scenario with you, okay?

 

You see someone in heavy stance(or any stance, really). You run up and swing at them, and much to your irritation, they immediately pull you and you fall down. Then they turn around and do the heavy backswing. Boom, you're dead, regardless of whether or not you had 100 health 100 armor, and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

It's the same for the Medium and Light backstabs, the heavy one is just stronger. Even without pull, it isn't really that hard to hit people with them; certainly not hard enough to justify the insane damage.

 

I recall hearing someone at Raven say something about the damage on the heavy back-swing, and the way push/pull not working as intended. Those are legitimate complaints.

 

But I don't think this constitutes a change to the backstab. I use it when it seems appropriate. Example: The very first fight I had with the new patch against someone (my brother) he jumped over me, and I did the light-stance backstab, and killed him (he had about 60 health.) Now, thats perfectly fine. It SHOULD kill him. I mean... I jabbed a lightsaber into his body. If I had used pull on him, that would be stupid. If I used pull, I would have cut his head off while facing him, not turn around.

 

But like I said. People will be people. They'll do stupid **** a jedi would never do, just to get a kill, regardless of them having fun while doing it. Its a cool move, and I just don't want Raven to do something to it, where people who use it legitimately get the shaft.

 

This is my point of view from a LAN gaming perspective. Barring any bugs I haven't found, this version is nearly perfect (once again, I haven't played it thoroughly, but from what I've seen...) and its perfect when you're playing with people who play to play. Raven can't do anything about the way people play, and no matter what they do, people will find a way to be stupid. Its human nature.

 

But I see your points. If I played over the intar-web, and every server had people pulling/back-slashing, I'd be annoyed too. But a patch is not what we need. We need people to not be stupid (like I said) but that just won't happen.

[Aoshi]

Bah for all you people that complain... you talk way too much. I think force powers are more or less fine just the way they are. If you dont like drain whores then drain them first (unless you consider this gay; in that case go play something completely mindless like DiabloII). For all the rest of us who enjoy the fun of the game find a counter they always exist. Though i will have to concede the whole push/pull knock me down thing. That is REALLY annoying and completely ruins a good saber battle. Maybe raven could knock down the stun time a bit or something to even it out cause i've been playing mp many a time to just get knocked on my ass and sabered heavy style. For all of you that do this... learn to fight face to face or go find a rocket launcher and let me push the rockets back at you k? As to the force powers just learn to deal with them or quit. Less lag for me anyways. Well that's my two-cents cya online.

[Skidrowpunk]

I completly agree with you. Backstab is really messed up. I mean, who whould do that IRL leaving thier front unprotected. It doesn't matter if their in back of you, you should turn around. And the heavy backswing, thats dumb, i mean a sword of pure energy or any sharp object going straight through your body without you blocking it is just NOT going to do THAT much dammage. Thats so unrealistic. And push/pull is unrealistic too, because, if you had Telekenetic powers and you were one with the force, would pulling someone with enough force to move giant blocks knock them down? I don't think so. Don't even get me started on the guns. They are soooo unrealistic, i mean, what laser gun (e-11) fires that fast with that much accuracy? None that i can think of. ANd the alt-repeater fire doesn't do enough dammage, i think it should be a 1 hit kill IMO to balance out the guns. Then we have the tenloss sniper rifle. This is way unbalenced, i thhink we should take the scope off of it. ANd 1 last thing, you should take out force jump, because noone can jump that high, ever.

[[QGA]Vertigo]

hmmm... sarcasm... :D

[Skidrowpunk]

By god, i didn't think anyone would get it!

[Sludgehed]

Personally, I like the game as it is. I rarely play on NF servers. There's really nothing in the game that can't be countered. The only problem that I see with the way the game is balanced as far as force powers are concerned. To play a dark jedi, you have to pretty much always get the jump on your enemies, and disable them before they can either put their defenses up or disable you. As a light jedi, you have to always be able to predict what your opponent is going to do, in order to properly defend yourself. For the casual gamer, this is a tall order. I think, however, most of the people willing to post on a forum are not casual gamers, and thus their is a certain level of performance and talent that I expect from them.

 

What it seems to me that the bulk of you are complaining about, and I apologize if my perception isn't accurate, is that people are cowardly. This isn't a fault of the game, it's a fault of the person. Yes, you can back up and use drain like a mofo, and then use heavy style. You can also heal while running about like a fool. If that's your style, then by all means, enjoy. You can push, pull, kick, one-hit heavy style, backstab, whatever. The ability for a person to do that is not the system, it's the person.

 

In order to remove the ability for people to do things with force powers that result in their eventual victory, you'd need to take away the ability to do cool things with the force. Personally, I think that doing cool things with the force is the main thing that makes me feel like a superhuman inter-galactic jedi badass, as opposed to some jerk with a glowing sword.

 

I understand the frustration that comes from running at someone, being put on your ass and then stabbed to death. This isn't very much fun. However, take away push and pull so people can't knock you over, kick so they can't do damage while knocking you over, grip so they can't drop you off a ledge, drain so they can't disable you, heal so they can't recover, heavy style so they can't do alot of damage, quick style so they can't spam, throw so they can't hit you at range, seeing so they can't find you, mind trick so you can find them, dark rage so they're not powerful, lightning so they can't spam damage, speed so they can't get to you, protect so you can hurt them. While we're at it, we might as well just get rid of the lightsaber. I'm sure we could just talk about our problems, instead. Why fight? Why be able to do cool stuff? I'm sure we could as easily settle our dispute with a rousing game of twister.

 

If someone abuses a power, stab them. If they kill you anyway, point out to them that they are cheesy fembots. They will likely take a moment to talk to you about how they're actually 1337 players, and their score is awesome, and someone will come along and chat kill them. Doesn't get much funnier than that.

[Lazybones]

For my first post on this forum, I have to agree with Sludgehed. I've had a lot of fun games on public servers (after almost a month playing the game, I've gravitated toward playing mostly CTY), and while every now and then I find a server where the skill level is way beyond me, most times I find my niche and have a good time. At first I frequently fell prey to red-stance strokes and being gripped off ledges, but now I can avoid the former (and get in a few blue-stance counters while they're recovering) and absorb pretty much kills the latter (I always play as light, except on force teams servers). I like the teamwork and strategy in the game, and find the presence of force and sabres makes JK2 a fun break from the more traditional gun-based fps games out there.

 

My 2c, and game on,

Lazybones (see you on the CTY servers!)

[mIRC]

Originally posted by Skidrowpunk

I completly agree with you. Backstab is really messed up. I mean, who whould do that IRL leaving thier front unprotected. It doesn't matter if their in back of you, you should turn around. And the heavy backswing, thats dumb, i mean a sword of pure energy or any sharp object going straight through your body without you blocking it is just NOT going to do THAT much dammage. Thats so unrealistic. And push/pull is unrealistic too, because, if you had Telekenetic powers and you were one with the force, would pulling someone with enough force to move giant blocks knock them down? I don't think so. Don't even get me started on the guns. They are soooo unrealistic, i mean, what laser gun (e-11) fires that fast with that much accuracy? None that i can think of. ANd the alt-repeater fire doesn't do enough dammage, i think it should be a 1 hit kill IMO to balance out the guns. Then we have the tenloss sniper rifle. This is way unbalenced, i thhink we should take the scope off of it. ANd 1 last thing, you should take out force jump, because noone can jump that high, ever.

 

Stupid post.

 

You want it to be just like SW? Saber goes through/sear anything it touches. Meaning that any swing should be a one-shot kill. PLease, continue trolling.

[Blamer]

Originally posted by mIRC

 

Stupid post.

 

You want it to be just like SW? Saber goes through/sear anything it touches. Meaning that any swing should be a one-shot kill. PLease, continue trolling.

Moron alert...

[Nill the Mean]

Originally posted by mIRC

 

Stupid post.

 

You want it to be just like SW? Saber goes through/sear anything it touches. Meaning that any swing should be a one-shot kill. PLease, continue trolling.

 

Stupid person.

 

Patch kicks ass! BUT...

The backstab does need to be nerfed a bit. I have already seen a lot of people doing this and it doesn't even work that well. It just looks stupid. And it is really lame.

To solve ALL the games problems Raven should do this in their next patch:

1. Tone down blocking a bit.

2. Tone down saber clashing during attack animations a bit.

3. Make the blocking radius more narrow.

4. Reduce the sparks made by clashing sabers.

5. Up the damage on ALL saber attacks.

6. Put in the FISTS!!!

7. Erm... FISTS! Yeah!

[Skidrowpunk]

mIRC i didn't think i'd ever see someone so incredibly stupid. But, you seemed to have proven me wrong. I made it so Painfuly obviouse, that a 2 year old could have gotten the underlying point. Incase you haven guessed by now, that post was made in Satire, or, for a moronlike you to understand, SARCASM!

[Nill the Mean]

Who cares about mIRC? He's an idiot! Let's ignore him... Concentrate on me! What do you think of my opinion? Read it! Go on... it is clever isn't it?

 

Don't make me say fists again.