D.L. Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 While there are a lot of people dissing Raven, saying they don't care about the game, sulking over the new patch, very few people are actually appreciating the effort they are making. How many dev teams work so closly with the gaming community!? It's not present with a lot of games. Very few in fact. If you sent an email to a dev member, normally you'd be waiting days for a reply. Sent an email to Michael Chang Gummelt today. He had replied with some excellent information and help regarding bot routes within 3 hours. That's excellent support. How about everyone just takes a second to look back and see how damn helpful Raven have been over the last month, the game has being released? I'm not against constructive critisicm of the patch. It's not perfect but it adds a lot to the MP aspect. The mindless trolls who bash the patch are really who this is aimed at. Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
©-Kïzötzëphæl Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 A big thank you to Raven from me. You are the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRA_Wolf Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Yup..RAVEN = Game Making Gods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nill the Mean Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Harrumph! I totally agree. I hope Raven don't pay any attention to those who don't back up their arguments. I'm sure they don't... but people make mistakes. They have done good with grip/drain/heal/guns/DFA... but the blocking is overdone in my opinion... less sabre clashing during attack animations and more damage. And a smaller blokcing radius. Then the game will be even cooler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
posternutbag9d9 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Great Job Raven.. you made the game unplayable now that it takes up half your force to heal 20 whole health points! Now you get killed every time you fight with a saber from weapon spam... then you have times where you kill someone in a close battle just for them to spawn and finish you off since you can't heal. And luckily, raven didn't even change the level designs so that they would accomodate more healing! Great... Last game I buy from them. To totally change the entire design after people bought the game FOR that design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.L. Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 You don't have to install the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-wa jodar Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by posternutbag9d9 Great Job Raven.. you made the game unplayable now that it takes up half your force to heal 20 whole health points! Now you get killed every time you fight with a saber from weapon spam... then you have times where you kill someone in a close battle just for them to spawn and finish you off since you can't heal. And luckily, raven didn't even change the level designs so that they would accomodate more healing! Great... Last game I buy from them. To totally change the entire design after people bought the game FOR that design... Go a give your head a soak in acid !! WHINER !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOneCanoli Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I'd like to thank Raven as well. The game may not be perfect yet, but it has improved quite a bit, and I highly respect them for working closely with the community and trying their best to grant our wishes. Good form, Raven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 This is a much needed thread. As someone who has emailed Mr. Gummelt several times for various questions about the game and editor, I can say it's definitely been the most positive company/consumer experience I've ever experienced. You can tell dealing with these guys that they're gamers at heart, and that they really do CARE what the community thinks and feels about their products. A big hearty thank you from me! Thanks Raven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Why is everyone giving his opinion about the patch a whiner ? If he/she doesn't like it then he/she has all the right in the world to post his opinion here... Instead of saying that they're whiners, why don't you try to give a few arguments as to why his arguments are wrong instead of just posting the violin smiley... That said... i'd like to give my own reasons why I don't like the patch... My gripes are mainly about the saber system. The nerfs of the forces I can understand (altho they overdid it a bit on the heal/drain and made absorb a tad too powerfull). The changes to the saber-system leave me clueless as to why they did that tho... There's generally 2 things I don't like about the saber system... At first, the blocking/parries of SP they put into MP... While this might look nice and more "movie-like" it really narrows the gap between new people and more skilled people to the point that trying to play competitively is almost impossible without reverting to exploits or "cheap" moves. In SP this is perfect, due to the lag-free conditions, and because of the fact that it gives a nice change from fighting all the enemies who use guns against you. In MP however this just degrades the gameplay in such a way that in any FFA game you'll have an empty level, with every player concentrated in one big ball of sabers at an open place in that level, slashing wildly at each other while running around in that ball, or trying to use nothing but the backsweep, lightning (it's still the same, but due to the outragous blocking it has becom SO much more effective), or the dfa (yes, people are STILL abusing the dfa. The reason that it is possible is that everyone is running around in one big group, and they jsut have to do a dfa in the middle of that group to get a kill or 2). While a few blocks might be good it is really overdone and it should be toned down by at least 75% (imo) Servers could include a "SP saber system" option (or something like that) for the ones more interested in role-playing or who just want to see pretty graphics/movie-like fights. Second... there's a system implemented to reduce damage at the beginning and the end of a saber-swing. While this is a good idea, it's overdone... a LOT. Damage at the beginning or ending of a red slash is almost nothing. It would make more sense if the damage difference would be something like 5 or 10... (wich means a minimum of 90-95 for a red slash) There.... a post from someone who doesn't like the patch, complete with an explenation what I don't like, AND a few comments on how it could be improved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Originally posted by JRA_Wolf in another thread-- Quoting DIRECTLY from my email inbox: "We're not reverting to anything, complainers are just going to have to get used to it all over again, I guess... :/ " Michael Chang Gummelt Gameplay Programmer: Jedi Knight II Raven Software http://www.ravensoft.com" Put up or shut up, thanks bye. I found this in a different thread...I was...incensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Uh, I'm 90% sure that that's BS and that he/she is just bluffing... IF that would be the opinion of raven, they would have posted that here a LONG time ago.... heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 I'm reallllllllly hoping it's BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Legend Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 There is a difference between constructive criticism and whining. As for the e-mail, I don't care whether it's true or not. I doubt it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Vestril - I concur with Vertigo...as someone who has been in contact with Mr. Gummelt before, it really looks like a fabricated email. Not to mention, the guy posting it follows it up with two smart comments Now put up or shut up, Thank you Bye. and you anti=patch junkies are going to be obsolete! pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for me. If Raven really felt like this, they wouldn't have listened to the complainers the first time around, and we wouldn't even have this patch. Yesterday, I sent a question to Mr. Gummelt asking about the patch and how they feel about it, and his response was that they knew they wouldn't be able to please everybody and were monitoring things. Sounds a lot more like ChangKhan, eh? TDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S!TH!NAT0R Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Thank You Raven, you rock!! -JK2 is a great game and the 1.03 patch,though not perfect with a couple minor issues, is damn good! -Keep up the great work! -SOF2 is going to own so freakin' bad! -I'm so addicted to the SOF2 MP test! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Yesterday, I sent a question to Mr. Gummelt asking about the patch and how they feel about it, and his response was that they knew they wouldn't be able to please everybody and were monitoring things. Sounds a lot more like ChangKhan, eh? TDS Yay!! Thank you for making my fears go away. I'm really not that gullible, but...well it seemed too ridiculous to be a lie... I really do respect Raven, but as someone said in a different thread, it really is kind of crazy of them to make huge changes in gameplay to a game that had already gotten some impressive reviews. It all seemed a little extreme to me. I don't expect them to reverse a lot of the changes, but I have a hard time enjoying the game as it is. When I first started playing MP I loved it, straight off, and I tried to enjoy the game with the new patch and I just couldn't. I don't mean to say that it sucks, just that it made the game worse for me personally. I may be in a minority but it seems like making a number of rather drastic changes after the game had been out for only a month is premature. It says to me that Raven doesn't have faith in their initial product,which causes me to lose faith in them. It's very nice to know they're watching and trying to meet the needs of the gaming comunity though If this patch was any indicator they will probably cut back on many of the changes and continue to try and balance out, and I'll keep patching and hoping that one of the patches will allow me to enjoy the game as I once did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 QGA Vertigo - your post is the first I've seen that goes into why you don't like the patch in a smart intelligent manner. You post actual facts and give situations, whereas 95% of the flames against the patch, say wholly incorrect things like "I hate this patch because it added the backsweep" or "this patch sucks, cuz now it takes no skill." I'll take a small issue though with your claim that the patch really narrows the gap between new people and more skilled people to the point that trying to play competitively is almost impossible without reverting to exploits or "cheap" moves. This is true to a very small extent, the extent that when it came out everybody had to unlearn what worked in the old version, and figure out what works in the new version. From a results standpoint in the beginning you can say new people and skilled people are starting from the same point. But as a player of this patch on-line for three nights now, you can definitely see that there are skilled players with the patch that are advancing to the point of definitely being able to school the newbies with the new saber system. And I'm talking those who don't spam DFA or backswinging or the like. In the end, your argument is true, but only for probably the first couple times you play the new patched version. Once you get the hang of it, your skill starts to take over. Trust me on this one! TDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 It says to me that Raven doesn't have faith in their initial product,which causes me to lose faith in them. It's very nice to know they're watching and trying to meet the needs of the gaming comunity though To me, I think it's much more of the second part up there and not a lot of the first. They realize a couple a things. A) what it's like to be a gamer and what you generally want as one but also B) that the forums by no means compromise their entire community. Plenty of people will buy this game and never even play MP, much less think to get on any forum to talk about the game and its good and bad points, or what patch they're going to run. One thing that I find most disturbing about many of these posts against the patch is the lack of respect and insinuation that these people aren't doing their job, when in fact they may be doing it just a little too well. (note to all those who might flame, I didn't say you don't have the right to do that! Just that *I* find it disturbing) TDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksider Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Ignore the whining sheep Raven, JK2 is one of the best games ever after this patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drallvekk Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 CONS: they removed all the medium stance moves the backstab is to powerfull less damage, it takes to long to kill someone (boring) very limited hit indication the hit range seems a bit too extended in every stance (unrealistic) allows saber throw (as an option) in no force duel PROS: no more death from above spam nice force adjustments fixed some minor interface issues on the multi screen select the ingame chat pop up box is cool (although it is over used) the patch was a step in the right direction but all they had to do to the saber system was take out the dfa spam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 To DarkSide... Wow, first time I get a coherent responce to something I post, instead of the violing smiley But yeah, after playing again for a few hours, I noticed that you tend to get better at it. I was doing pretty bad at first, and now kick most people's ass after a few hours of constant gaming, so there is some factor of skill in there anyhow... but... the majority of people who end up winning still seems to be the ones backstabbing/using the headless ckicken style in the light stance. This is true for duel as well as (if not, a LOT worse) for FFA. In a duel you'll see two people fighting, and now they'll actually move in closer to each other. While this is a good thing, the same happens in FFA. People tend to go at it in one huge chaotic group, making FFA games very random. Just before I stopped playing and checked these forums again, I tried an FFA game again, knowing that I had learned a lot about the new style of gameplay. After playing in a server for 20 minutes I still am convinced the new saber system destroys FFA playability AND still narrows down the gap between good players and less good players. Yes, I did end up 1st, but, only by a difference of 4 points, compared with the worst guy with a comparable time in the server (by some fluke I joined the server only seconds after it changed maps). I played about 5 duels in that server, and whenever I would challenge the guy who's last I'd always win. If I would be THAT better than that guy, then why is the difference in score between us so small ? I had 21, he had 17 kills... I'm still of the same opinion that gameplay was better pre-patch. Also, a factor that we need to look at is the bandwidth the game takes. With the SP saber system in MP comes a higher bandwidth usage, along with higher CPU usage for the server and higher pings. A server I normally ping 30 to now gives me pings of 70-80. This only started when that server (and other servers to wich I pinged similar, 30 pre-patch, 70-80 post-patch)converted to v1.03... Any server that's still v1.02 hasn't changed in terms of lag, so I'm 100% sure it's not my connect... yet another reason I don't like this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvolt Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Raven thanks for the hard work in keeping JK2 interesting and constantly developing new upgrades to the game. We may not like all of the changes but he no one gets what they want. I for one like the patch and look forward to new ones but, not right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiee Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Originally posted by drallvekk the ingame chat pop up box is cool (although it is over used) I just have to ask.... How can a box that pops up when people are away be overused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 In a duel, some people put up the chat box, type 3 words, and wait for their force to be replenished while the ther waits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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