A better question: WHY did they change ANYTHING?

[Bl4de]

Originally posted by Boreas

Also, people aren't complaining because they can't spam moves. If they were, they would say "I don't like 1.03 because I can't spam DFA", but they are saying they don't like OTHER THINGS.

 

Please, do not ASSUME they dislike 1.03 because of the lack of DFA. Anyway, the DFA spammers can just spam backstab now so they won't be complaining.

 

You really think someone would come out and say I SUCK! FIX THE NEW PATCH BECAUSE I SUCK!? No, they will make up other reasons to make themselves look better in the eyes of others. Maybe not all, but trust me, most of them. What I stated was people hate the new patch because of the dfa heal and drain nerf, and because saaber fights are now longer. That is the fact, not my opinion. 95% of the 1.03 whiners complain because of those 4 reasons, the other 5 % actually post something constructive for Raven to look at. Maybe if they are a coder, mapper, animator ect, they see flaws in animations, maps, several bugs, maybe graphic card issues. Those are the people I respect, not all these flaming children who say THIS PATCH SUCKS and have nothing to back that up with, except they can't kill people with DFA anymore.

 

MAYBE, just maybe, if all of these whiney kids keep complaining, Raven will just give up and stop patching the game all together. I know I would be pissed off at the community when they say I couldn't code. Just keep whining, that's how EVERYONE got their way in life, they just kept complaing. Yeah right. You get what you get, maybe get what you deserve.

[Demise_SOK]

Bl4de,

 

I dislike the new patch, but not cuz of the change to DFA, heal or drain. I dislike it because of auto-blocking, saber damage reduction and this stupid idea that swings do less damage at the beginning and end as if we are all wearing armor or something that takes the mid-arch of a swing to penetrate.

 

Otherwise, I love the patch.

 

From reading the boards it seems to me that only a small, vocal segment of the community truly adore this patch- the NF, saber duel people.

[Bl4de]

You have a valid point, I respect that. One thing you have to remember, as I've seen people say before, the gameplay. If it were even truer to star wars than what it already is, sabers should kill instantly, chop you in half, ect (luke's hand, darth's hand getting severed in 1 swing, you get the picture) you just can't have a game where things are realistic to whatever the game is based off of, unless that's how it's supposed to be (IE realistic combat sims). They changed the damage to make saber fights longer, interesting, and challenging. It makes your mind race when you're dueling an opponent, not knowing his health, wondering if you'll win or not, before 1.03 it was certain you would lose if you had lower health than the other person. On occasion you would get a lucky blow and win, but the chances are, the higher health you have, the more chances of winning you have. Now in 1.03 it doesn't work that way. I've battled it out for at least a minute with 20 health and still won, it gives people a chance, and at the same time gives people the same chance they had before if they are skilled.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Demise_SOK

From reading the boards it seems to me that only a small, vocal segment of the community truly adore this patch- the NF, saber duel people.

 

Well based on the poll on the front page, your wrong.

 

Out of 2,227 people

 

44.8% think it needs tweaking.

26.1% think it's perfict.

17.5% don't like it

11.7% think they changed to much.

 

Now what "needs tweaking" really means is open for debate, but clearly a lot more poeple like it then dislike it.

 

Some people think it's perfict, the majorty I would say like it but feel it needs some minor changes, like more ammo for CTF, slightly less blocking, slightly more damage from sabers.

 

Also based on all the polls done on these forms, it was clear that more people liked the patch then disliked it.

[[QGA]Vertigo]

Originally posted by Bl4de

 

You really think someone would come out and say I SUCK! FIX THE NEW PATCH BECAUSE I SUCK!? No, they will make up other reasons to make themselves look better in the eyes of others. Maybe not all, but trust me, most of them. What I stated was people hate the new patch because of the dfa heal and drain nerf, and because saaber fights are now longer. That is the fact, not my opinion. 95% of the 1.03 whiners complain because of those 4 reasons, the other 5 % actually post something constructive for Raven to look at. Maybe if they are a coder, mapper, animator ect, they see flaws in animations, maps, several bugs, maybe graphic card issues. Those are the people I respect, not all these flaming children who say THIS PATCH SUCKS and have nothing to back that up with, except they can't kill people with DFA anymore.

 

Hmmm... we can turn this around too ya know...

 

Who's to say you're not one of those guys who likes the new patch, just 'coz he still has a 1-hit kill move, the backstab/sweep... that is even MORE effective and easy to pull off than DFA...

 

I'm not saying you are.... just trying to let you see things from the opposite side...

[Bl4de]

I see your point vertigo. But you must realize, I'm posting this from a neutral position, pointing out the facts, and from how I've seen people act and what they have said both in the game and on forums around the web. I know people who don't even know why they are complaining, they just go with the flow. Sad but true. And if I ever spam a move please kill me.

 

I like the new patch for what I told Demise_SOK, the new challenging duels and battles. Besides, they never made the backslash stronger in the patch, if anything they made it worse, I believe it was stronger before the patch, but no one noticed it, you know why? Because the DFA was not a tactical move (as in, use it when you have the opportunity, not spam it), it was a move you could kill pretty much whoever you wanted with it. So no one noticed the backslash, they had DFA. It's the simple truth. I'm sure you noticed the sudden attention the back slash got when the patch was released.

 

I'm using my force powers now to see into the future...I see the backslash getting nerfed and people spamming the flip-attack move with yellow stance......then beyond that, the yellow flip attack getting nerfed....and the blue jab attack being spammed and overly powered. It's a sad cycle, because some STUPID people can't stop spamming moves over and over because they are cheap and or can't get a kill otherwise. If this keeps up, we might not have any special moves left.

[SpaceMonkey1315]

Originally posted by Swordless

well many people did complain about DFA. i didnt care. a kill is a kill. i personally dont dislike the patch. its fine in my eyes.

 

this here is the perfect insight...lay off newb bashing, and just play the game for what its worth, let people play the way they want to

[BigM]

The only problem I have with the patch is that I can fight in a FFA for 10 minutes in a lightsaber fight against someone, and then another guy comes along and kills us with fletchett spam. First of all, it shouldn't take 10 minutes for someone to be killed with a lightsaber, no matter what. It just got boring. Second, I didn't have a chance against the guy with the fletchett gun because even the primary fire causes more damage than a lightsaber hit. IMO it should be something like 50, 75, 100 for light, medium, and heavy. (Note: I never use heavy, so don't accuse me of DFAing)

[posternutbag9d9]

Yeah, and if you had heal the way it used to be, you would have been able to heal after the gunfire and pulled his weapon away... as it is, you are helpless but to die every time...And I loooove how noone even bothers addressing the points of my previous 2 posts... the people supporting 1.03 just skip over what they can't debate against.

[Bl4de]

Originally posted by posternutbag9d9

Tree, What about heal? With heal doing 25 health for 2/3 of your force... I guess you must love dieing to weapon spammers instead of being able to flee and heal and then pull their weapons... Also, only people HERE complained... that does NOT represent the entire JK2 community by FAR... DFA was NOT overpowered.. again... all you needed to do was sidestep right and start a heavy stance swing and then kill them while they were stunned after jumping... I do it time and time again since I still play on the many 1.02 servers...

 

In 1.02 all the person had to do if they attacked, missed and someone else started attacking them was turn themselves with the saber still on the ground and it will kill them. Trust me, that's how bad the DFA was, now it is JUST fine the way it should have been, unable to turn when you hit the ground. Now it renders them vunerable, before the patch all they had to do was turn and it would either kill them or scare them off. I've tried it to see the hit range, and also got it tried ON. Hurts alot. Heal doing 25 health? Are you sure you had it on level 3? I had it on level 3 and it healed 50 points for 2/3rds...maybe my memory is just bad.

 

Weapon spammers = useless, you know why? Sabers deflect any lasers, and push deflects any throwables plus repeater 2ndary fire and rockets. If you can use force and the saber, you won't die by people using weapons. Besides, where does it say you MUST run and hide, heal, then pull their weapons? When I see someone using a gun I don't let them shoot, I pull it, or just kill them. You shouldn't even get hit when using a lightsaber. Unless he's 2 inches away with a rocket launcher that is. If heal could only be used after getting hit with a gun, great, but that wasn't the case. People abused heal so badly it would take a strong slash, special move (dfa, backslash ect), or a lucky head swing to kill them. Normally attacking them would result in them hitting their binded force heal button whenever they were hurt, which resulted in them having a higher chance at winning unless they just sucked. Combine that with 1.03 where heal wasn't balanced, guess what, fights would last FOREVER, as if people arlready didn't complain about the lengths enough.

[JaledDur]

I wish they would fix the exploitable moves such as this classic favorite:

 

Push, turn around, down arrow, click, repeat.

 

 

All they have to do is push you down and then turn around and swing, thats it. At least with DFA you can get out of the way, but with this, you are totally helpless. And if you are moving trying to avoid their rear swings, you'll get your butt pushed on the ground a whole lot quicker...

 

 

Raven, I emplore you, dont go back to the way 1.02 was, but dont stay with this latest abomination. Just either:

 

A) Take out all the one hit kill moves or any other move that will be used repeatedly.

 

B) Make the special moves have a recovery time that is so great they are only used in special situations, and are not feasible for use all the time, such as what you did with the new DFA (bravo on that one btw).

[Vestril]

Quite honestly playing with the patch bores the hell out of me. Playing without the patch is fun and interesting to me. Many of the changes were perfectly valid, but it takes so long to kill people, sometimes I get bored halfway through a duel and just think about something else entirely...

[Bl4de]

Originally posted by Vestril

Quite honestly playing with the patch bores the hell out of me. Playing without the patch is fun and interesting to me. Many of the changes were perfectly valid, but it takes so long to kill people, sometimes I get bored halfway through a duel and just think about something else entirely...

 

I believe that's called ADHD.

 

[Vestril]

Originally posted by Bl4de

 

I believe that's called ADHD.

 

 

Or its called a boring game...I'm pretty sure I don't have attention span problems, only because I'm capable of sitting down on a train and reading for 5 or 6 hours without getting out of my seat....also I was a pretty good student back in the HS day

[Demise_SOK]

I think the 'risk' factor of backstab has totally disapeared. When I saw people preforming this move into crowds in 1.02 they were usully my next kill- not because they were the game leader or I feared them but because I remember this attack being alot easier to counter with regular saber swings prior to the advent of autoblock. Under 1.02 damage system one strong saber swing would kill the backslasher.

 

Now though, Raven has dropped damage on every attak but this one, in another thread Raven calls it an 'oversight'... sounds like an exploit to me, alot more then DFA ever was.

[Phr00t]

I use the backslash but I don't spam it. It's perfectly viable in a strategic situation. I finish some 3 move combos in red with DFA and do a backslash if I miss, whats wrong with that?

[Spider AL]

Well based on the poll on the front page, your wrong.

 

Out of 2,227 people

 

44.8% think it needs tweaking.

26.1% think it's perfict.

17.5% don't like it

11.7% think they changed to much.

 

Now what "needs tweaking" really means is open for debate, but clearly a lot more poeple like it then dislike it.

 

I'm sorry, but did you learn your statistic interpretation skills from Bill Clinton?

 

As of NOW, 25.1% of the entire vote say they like everything about it, but 74.9% of the vote either Don't like it, think they changed it too much or at BEST, think there are things that need to be changed in 1.04. I absolutely hate some of the changes made and the way they affect FFA, but I voted that I think it needs tweaking, because that's precisely what I think.

 

EVEN if you say the "tweak needed" voters are the middle ground, 30% of the people who voted say that the patch either "changed the game too much" or "don't like it." This far outweighs the percentage of people who are satisfied with the patch, the 25.1% who say it's perfect.

 

How you can POSSIBLY enterpret this to support your entirely imaginary claim that most people "like the patch," is beyond me. Puh.

[Vestril]

I think the point is that a big part of the community is dissatisfied with the patch, whether it's 75% 90% or 40% hardly matters (this poll doesn't neccesarily represent exactly what the community feels), it's still a sizeable chunk, and as we get past the '1.03 is lame--you suck Raven' posts, we're finding many valid arguments for minor things that need to change.

[Daveman]

My $.02 (admittedly I'm more of a duelist):

 

- Remove the "backstab/slash" moves from medium and heavy stances... make it light stance only.

 

- Reduce the damage of the light stance backstab, speed it up some, but plant the feet... don't allow turns while doing it.

 

- Keep blocking % the same, but reduce the blocking radius... make people FACE the blade/angle of attack in order to block.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Spider AL

How you can POSSIBLY enterpret this to support your entirely imaginary claim that most people "like the patch," is beyond me. Puh.

 

I base that on the other polls on this form, that had better worded options, and in those cases it was typical 1/2 or 1/3 in favor of the patch.

 

Actualy no one can truly say what the comunity as a whole thinks of this patch, only the part you see. There may be 10's of thousands of people who love the patch that never come to this site. And there may be 10's of thousands of people who hate this patch, have quit playing tottaly so they don't bother visiting JK2 sites.

 

Statics and polls can be used to prove anything, depending on how they're worded. Which was somewhat the point of my post, someone else used the same data to prove that everyone hated the patch.

 

I guess it really all depends on how you define the "needs tweaking" vote. If that's a mostly postive, but could use some minor fixing vote, then it's clear that a great deal more people like it then dislike it. If it's a more negitive vote, then it's equaly clear that most people dislike the patch, or at least aren't tottaly happy with it. I tend to assume, that the needs tweaking is a postive vote, due to the fact there are already 2 negitive options in the poll, altho not everyone may see it that way.

 

Myself I voted for the "needs tweaking" because even though for how I play this patch is perfict, it could be fixed to make the other game styles more playable.

[Agen]

Originally posted by Daveman

My $.02 (admittedly I'm more of a duelist):

 

- Remove the "backstab/slash" moves from medium and heavy stances... make it light stance only.

 

- Reduce the damage of the light stance backstab, speed it up some, but plant the feet... don't allow turns while doing it.

 

- Keep blocking % the same, but reduce the blocking radius... make people FACE the blade/angle of attack in order to block.

 

This is exactly what needs to be changed for sabs (and the kick is killer to 56kers. i have been on servers where once tey see and 56ker they'll kick em to detah and oyu cna't stop it because of you dopn't see it starting.)

 

For CTF, the pace has been dramaticcly taken away, so add that back with more ammo too.

[Spider AL]

I base that on the other polls on this form,

 

Ahh so since this poll doesn't agree with your idea of the proportions of people who are satisfied with the patch, you simply ignore the percentages in this poll and declare that because previous polls substantiated your view, this one does too, regardless of how people voted?

 

Those other polls you refer to were held, as you say, on this forum. They will OF COURSE not get as many hits as a poll on the jkii.net main page, and will therefore reflect the views of the community less accurately because a smaller cross-section was used to form the percentages.

 

Thirdly, a lot of people are ONLY NOW realising the drawbacks to the alterations made in 1.03, and therefore more and more people will come here to complain about them.

 

that had better worded options

 

You left out three important words to preface that statement, and they are: "In my opinion." In my opinion, the wording is perfectly servicable, and the percentages are telling.

 

As for the definition of "tweaking" being debatable, the definition of "liking the patch" is equally debatable. Throwing rocks at an ice-skater is all very well, except when you're standing on the same lake.

[Jors C'Boath]

Just fix the Kick, makeing it a double tap on the jump, has totally negated this move for anyone on dial up(me). Also once someone does the backstab make them unmovable(recovery), unable to turn or look up and down. I have seen the backstab take out 3 people on one move while the user looked all over cuaseing the saber to do a complete circle of death.

 

Other then that I find the patch fine, I was never bothered by the DFA, as a quick push or roll took care of business. Drain was also a pain, but I learned to counter with a DFA or heavy side slash(baseball anyone?).

[flippo]

here's a point that i think supports al's views: there are still a ton of 1.02 servers out there. in almost every game i've played when a new patch comes out, the servers were updated in about 2 or 3 days. it's been more than a week now and i still have no problem finding a 1.02 server. something must be wrong with this patch if it makes 75% of players feel it needs work.

 

while i like 1.02 a lot better, i would like to see a compromise of the two patches. here's my perfect patch:

 

1. saber combat like 1.02's with improved blocking. if your facing your attacker you should block. but you must facing directly towards him.

 

2. DFA and backstabbing fixed.

 

3. heal and drain unnerfed. find a compromise between force cost and effect that will please everyone.

 

4. all of the 1.03 benefits, e.g. icons indicating no force, saber only, etc. and the chat icon above players heads.

 

5. improve guns. no, i'm not a gun whore, but i really like sabering them.

 

i'm sure there are other things, but i can't think of any. this game can still be saved and please everyone. there's need to flame each other or divide into 1.02/1.03 factions. SAVE THE COMMUNITY. FIX THE GAME.

 

also, i don't see why everyone says people who duel love this patch. i used to play mostly no force duels, and i can't stand it.

[Vestril]

also, i don't see why everyone says people who duel love this patch. i used to play mostly no force duels, and i can't stand it.

 

Indubitably, all that blocking gives me a headache...lol