Is This How To Play Jk2 From Now On?!

[Jedi_Jack]

i was in our server today (ROMAN JEDI ARENA) and there was a player in there called "WTF" (yes, i typed that correctly) and he was owning everyone with about 20 kills at the end of the game to everyone else's 5 or so. after watching him in spectate mode and then reading the lucasforums about sabering, i realized he was doing a VERY common move that seems to be all the rage.

 

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Medium Backsweep -- Back + Attack (with enemy close behind)

 

Speed-- Fast

Range-- Short

Defense Piercing-- 100%

Damage-- 80-250 points

Tactics-- Upon knocking your opponent down, run up to where he lays, spin 180-degrees, and perform this move. Done properly, this means instant death for your target.

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he must've killed 10 ppl this way that i saw. very good move, but does it have to be his only one? he was really good at it, but ... IS THIS THE GAMEPLAY OF JK2 FROM NOW ON?!

[Arrghman]

if you're constantly killed by backstab which has not changed in the patch, then you should try to dodge or get out of the way, it really isnt that hard especially since the guy doing it can't even see where you're going. and if he keeps trying to knock you down then don't let him, knock him down first and hit him with a heavy swing, use drain so he cant push/pull you or even use absorb so he can't push/pull you. dont charge at him, let him come to you.

 

there are so many possible counters to someone who uses this move...

[fitzwilliamd]

if you're constantly killed by backstab which has not changed in the patch, then you should try to dodge or get out of the way

 

This is not accurate: the medium backsweep has been changed in the patch; in addition, the light backstab is now a virtual one-hit-kill. The strong version is similar or identical to the 1.02 type, and I used it to spice things up on occasion. Now it is spammed relentlessly.

 

However, Light stance backstab is now far more powerful (usually a one hit kill) and Yellow stance backsweep has been augmented in this patch.

 

In 1.02, on occasion I would show off a bit and use the Light backstab as a finisher move. It was quite difficult to pull off against a proficient opponent--25 to 35ish damage. But oh how satisfying when it did land for the killing blow.

 

It is not completely fair to say that only backslash is effective; it is, perhaps, the most effective. In addition to backslash, the medium special, and the strong DFA are still fairly useful in moderation.

 

Incidentally, the servers I have been on today have been a backsweep pull/backstab contest. It is a shame that we have come to this from such a previously spectacular saber combat system.

[Tarus]

Just today a guy back walked into me and did a backstab...the problem is when I saw him running backwards I did the medium jump over and stab down. I went right over his backstab and killed him.

 

Its not hard usually.

[§øníç]

If you get knocked down you deserve to die. If this guy can manage to knock you on the floor then there's no reason why he shouldn't kill you in one hit.

 

[Arrghman]

okay, so i was wrong about the changes to the backstab... but that doesnt make it any less hard to dodge or aviod

[ThingAhMajig]

I've been backstabing since this game was released.... It was not difficult to execute. PPL were too busy trying to DFA all the time... use backstab and DFA in conjunction...

 

There is an abudance of stupidity in the universe... more then hydrogen molecules I believe.

[pcmacman]

Arrghy is right, there are soo many ways to counter it. Its pretty easy to get out of the way. Plus if you are pushed/pulled down jush mash on your jump button and get out of there.

[MotionMan]

When I get knocked down I just back flip back up and jump over him while using force lighning..Suckers!

[drevilhsx]

There a ton of ways to counter it in 1vs1 duels yes. But when someone comes into a FFA group ass first they'll almost always get at least 1 kill.

 

So at the very least FFA has been soured.

 

Plus its just plain stupid that I can whack someone 3 times in the back of their head and they'll still be standing, but if they swing ONCE behind their back I'm toast. How realistic is that?

[Zek]

According to Raven, backstab was overlooked and they have plans to fix it in the next patch. Relax.

[Indreju]

While I agree that it is avoidable, it isn't as easily avoided in non Duel situations as some would have you believe. It is near impossible to always have a force power high enough to not get pulled over, and even then, at extreme close range, you will fall over no matter what.

 

That said, I have yet to once successfully jump up off the ground before dying to the backsweep from Medium / Strong stance. Simply mashing the jump button to do the spin jump / back flip up isn't fast enough or the damage area is screwed because you don't seem to honestly jump over it. This could be my fault I'll admit, but after three nights of trying, it would stand to reason I would make this jump at least once.

 

As good as the skills are and valuable to the game, I honestly believe this is less of a problem with the saber combat and more of a problem with needing to tweak exactly how push & pull work. Just my own opinion there of course.

[tempest8008]

Originally posted by Indreju

As good as the skills are and valuable to the game, I honestly believe this is less of a problem with the saber combat and more of a problem with needing to tweak exactly how push & pull work. Just my own opinion there of course.

 

 

Yeah, and a good opinion too...

 

As far as I'm concerned, if you have Lvl3 in Push and Pull, and you have enough Force in your Pool to use either one, you should be COMPLETELY immune unless you are in mid-air.

 

What I'd like to see is a system where a Force Push against another player requires, say, half the Force the Pusher uses to block.

 

So if it takes 10 Force to Push, you only need 5 Force to block, it's automatic, but it TAKES 5 Force from the defender, so your Force goes down as you are pushed, but only 1/2 as fast as the Pusher, using the logic that things like to keep on doing what they are already doing (takes more energy to start something that is stopped than to leave it stopped).

 

The other thing I want to see is changes in how the STANCES work. If someone spits themselves on my lightsaber, they shouldn't take "incidental" damage.

 

The lightsaber, no matter HOW it hits, should do the same damage. If just the tip jabs you, that causes less damage. If it is a quick slash that DOESN'T penetrate the body, it should cause more damage. If it passes THROUGH the body or a limb, it should be a kill. Period. An unshielded dueller is ripe for carving.

 

I've lost count of the times I've done a light lunge against the BACK of a Heavy Backswing spammer, watched my saber pass THROUGH the body, and still get killed...

[ShogunBlade]

i noticed a few posts where people have said.. yeah i just avoid the backstab and counter.. while this is all good and well on certain maps.. where you have the room to get out of the way.. point is people have tweaked mouse sensitivity to the point where the slightest touch on the mouse will turn a 180.. go on the darkside servers.. there are some really good backstabbers there.. personally im going to stop playing this game in mp until the problems are fixed.. a back stab should not mean instant death and should be blockable.. especially if your saber is in front of you.. you should not be able to move around when such a move is executed.. and you should take 2x the damage if you are countered from a back stab.. comon raven this is purely logical.. wtf.. oh im a jedi ill just back stab my way through the galaxy.. heh try to back stab vader lol

[Brandon Real]

Hi There. I'm new to the lucasforums. I to can also relate to this. However I'm not on the receiving end of the backstab. I believe the problem is with push/and or pull to. Last night I was in a Force Duel 1v1. Usually I prefer no force, but last night I was screwing around. I'm not sure if they were foolish players, or the Force powers needed some tweaking. But the second someone swung at me, I'd be at their side, Force push them down, get to them quickly, and BAM turn and backstab. They had 0 time to react. Did it 18 times in a row before I left. Now how is it a duel when swinging the saber practically means death to someone who can manage force well? In a way I believe if you can manage force well to where you control your opponents, then you deserve the win. However it should probably be more complicated than that. Maybe if Force Push/Pull used more mana, however in a duel i doubt it'll matter that much. Anyways, I'm still learning, and might be missing something.

[Falryx]

Agreed, push and pull are too overpowered. They're great powers and all -- but it sure would be nice if their impact was reduced to jumping and extremely-low force times.

 

Tempest has an interesting idea, and one I wish we could figure out how to implement. Of course, a meaningful SDK would help the community hammer out these tweaks and eventually the popular mods would gain ascendance and the community itself would help balance the game.

 

Instead, Raven's choosing a path of great resistance.

[Baron Fitz]

So Raven's "fixing" this in the next patch eh?

 

Pardon me if I'm a little cynical. I much preferred saber action in 1.02. Less of this running around backwards like a monkey on heroin. Sure, you had drain and grip whores, but absorb easily negates such cheapness.

 

Unfortunately, we see the logical progression of what happens when you make sabers next to useless in a frontal engagement: people start running around backwards because it's the only way to get kills. (which isn't terribly "realistic") I mean, come on, it's a LIGHTSABER. You shouldn't be able to survive more than 1 good hit with one....

 

I think I'll be unpatching and having some fun the old-skool way. There's absolutely no use for medium now, other than the dang backsweep. You can't chain moves easily anymore, and it does virtually the same damage that light does. One should not strengthen one style simply by destroying another. Sure, they got a few things right with the patch, but messed up the lion's share the other things they did change.

[Xzzy]

> Agreed, push and pull are too overpowered.

> They're great powers and all -- but it sure would

> be nice if their impact was reduced to jumping and

> extremely-low force times.

 

If they are indeed overpowered (not stating an opinion here), it's not the ability itself that's too strong, it's the counters against it.

 

Force pull someone within a certain range and they fall down, every time. That probably shouldn't be, there should be some kind of resist factor above and beyond force skill, much the way kick works.. sometimes kick knocks someone down, sometimes it doesn't.

 

Push/pull negating should probably have a bigger window too. Given that two opponents have the same skill in push or pull, someone should be able to resist the force nearly as well up close as they can from a bit of a distance.

 

perhaps something could be inserted whrere a person resisting at close range would have their defenses weakened as if they had actually cast the power.

[Dea]

I think if they change all back slashed to back stabs the problem should be over. As someon stated already, if you get knocked down you deserve to die. But people walking backwards into a knot of people and scoreing 3 kills with one hit is a bit over done

[TexRoadkill]

I dont understand how you guys can complain about FFA servers. Since the dawn of multiplayer gaming FFA servers have been for kiddies who want a quick action fix. Why would you even expect things to be fair and orderly?

 

The push/pull is a bitch in duels. It seems like 2 good players would spend most of their time waiting for the other to make a mistake then hit them with the force. That would be boring but pretty realistic.