Enemy Deaths

[Guest Jedi Master Xai-Qui]

Okay some may think this is a stupid topic but in JK you could cutpeoples arms off and they would fall to the floor and there would be a groan and the enemy would too.

Will you be able to do this in ob1?

It was a nice touch to JK/Mots which probably steams from the cantina scene in EP4: A New Hope. Where good old(I Mean Old!)

obi wan kenobi cut a strange aliens arm off.

 

 

 

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The truth?

Even Reality does not exist

[Guest Darth_Simpson]

The game is supposed to have a hyper-realistic physics engine, and every object will be handled with real physics. That means you can use every object in the game, well almost, and that no pre-animated deaths will be included. Every death will be different, acording to where you hit the person/droid from! Arms and heads and everything can probably be cut off!

[Guest Darth Pie]

Hey that would be awesome. Just think.....when your fighting Darth Maul you actually get to cut him in half like the movie!!! Don't mean to be stupid or anything I just thought that would be kinda neat heh.

 

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" If you only knew the POWER of pie! "

[Guest Kurgan]

According to LEC, hacking up body parts has not yet been confirmed.

 

It would be nice if at the bare minimum you could hack off arms like you could in JK.

 

However, what I'd like to see is the ability to cut somebody in half or hack off limbs in MP. That would be cool. It could be "turned off" in a menu if you didn't like seeing that (and there wouldn't have to be blood or guts). And the body parts could disapear over time, so they wouldn't build up and cause lag.

 

Kurgan

 

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 18, 2000).]

[Guest Neumi]

Of course we CAN'T cut a person to pieces.

For that, the eingine would have to calculate the new parts.

the only thing possible is to separate different body parts from each other.

But even THAT must be implemented by the programmers.

 

I don't know if some of you know that, but Dark Forces in Germany was on the index (nobody understood that, but at this point the WHY doesn't matter) - in MI3 there was a joke about. The german version of DF wasn't sold very often. That's why there was no german version of JK.

LEC don't want to take risks.

 

But we are Star Wars fans: Do we really care about blood and gore?

in Star Wars there was never blood and ther will never be.

Sure: Cutting Maul in 2 pieces would be a nice effect, but I would only like to see it at the end of the game, where it should be.

In MP I don't want to see death scenes like in Quake.

 

[Guest Kurgan]

I don't care about blood and gore, and I don't expect that in a LEC game with a "Teen" rating.

 

Of course we CAN'T cut a person to pieces.

For that, the eingine would have to calculate the new parts.

the only thing possible is to separate different body parts from each other.

But even THAT must be implemented by the programmers.

 

Lots of games have body parts that can be blown off. It's not a new thing. If they can do it..

 

And besides, this new physics engine they keep touting is supposed to be capable of some marvelous things.

 

Hey, EVEN JK HAD LIMBS YOU COULD HACK OFF!

 

So don't go telling me it can't be done.. or will be too system intensive. ; )

 

I'm not asking for much, just that in MP, as in JK's SP, you can kill a person with a particularly nasty combo and hack off an arm or cut them cleanly in two. This would be realistic, as it happens this way in the movies.

 

How many chopped off arms in the SW trilogy?

 

Darth Maul was cut in half!

 

If LEC's so big on not taking risks, why did they make it so you can be hacked into a thousands pieces by a giant fan in TPM game?

 

How about that guy who gets riddled with blaster burns in the second cutscene of Force Commander?

 

LEC apparently has no qualms about violence, so long as it doesn't create a "Mature" rating (which would lower sales).

 

LEC tends to release "family friendly" games, but that doesn't mean they are opposed to violence.

 

Hey, note ANH. Obi-Wan hacks off a guy's arm and there's blood everywhere.

 

ESB, the Special Edition, they add in a scene of a Wampa screaming with it's arm hacked off and a bloody stump.

 

Things BLEED, even in Star Wars!

 

In the game setting, I figure it could be just as violent as TPM game or JK and that would be perfectly fine. What's so wrong with that? It's certainly not a technology issue....

 

Kurgan

 

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 19, 2000).]

[Wilhuf]

Now for my interpretation of detachable body parts in Obi-Wan, 'in the tradition of Jedi Knight'

 

 

*voice of Maw* I put Jar-Jar's head on a spike for all to see!

 

Wilhuf

[Guest Neumi]

@Kurgan:

 

You see blood everywherein ANH? Are you sure you watched the right movie? With all the blood in this scene we hardly can fill a cup.

Sure, there is SOME blood in Star Wars, but normally it goes like "Bang, you're dead!" - and the other guy falls down.

 

Did you see Darth Maul bleeding? I surely didn't.

 

Also the fight on Jabbas ship in ROTJ shows, how a family friendly movie has to be. The light saber has absolutely NO effect on the enemies.

 

You mentioned chopped off arms. but did you mention chopped off legs? Or chopped off heads? No? Why not? Why can't we find more body parts in SW? It's simple: Because people acept a chopped off arm, but nothing else.

We see chopped off arms in a lot of old stories and legends, it has a special meaning.

 

LEC don't take risks, because they don't have to.

SW is a very unbloody universe.

To be cut into pieces by a fan (we don't see any body parts) is something else as if another person does it. And beside the chopped arms it's impossible to do it.

 

I was surprised by the FC intro. But I think they made an axception here, because they wanted to do a different game, not a SW game, but a real time strategy game in the SW universe.

 

I'm not against violence in games. why should I? But I don't think we will see too much of it in Obi Wan. That's all I say.

 

 

Come on, do you really expect LEC will create something like Die By the Sword? You got to be kidding.

You should know them better than that.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Neumi (edited June 20, 2000).]

[Guest Kurgan]

You see blood everywherein ANH? Are you sure you watched the right movie? With all the blood in this scene we hardly can fill a cup.

 

Star Wars: A New Hope (Episode IV), both the regular and the SE, both feature the cantina scene, where ObiWan hacks off a guy's arm, and the bloody arm sits there on the ground for a second or two, camera focused on it.

 

You have to admit, there's blood in the movie, like it or not. And in ESB as well.

 

In TPM, I can't quite tell, as I don't have the film, but I did notice a bit of "dust flash" when Maul is sliced at the end. According to some folks on various SW sites, that's "blood."

Sure, there is SOME blood in Star Wars,

Exactly my point. I never said that ObiWan needs to have geysers of blood or gibbing or anything like Soldier of Fortune or the Quake games. I never said that!

 

But, it would be well within the SW "universe" and tradition if there was a bit of blood.

 

And as I said before, other SW games have had hacked off limbs! JK/MOTS and TPM for example. Yet the game still had Teen ratings and remained true to the movies.

 

What's so wrong with that?

 

All I'm saying, is in ObiWan you should be able to hack off a person's arm with your lightsaber in MP (as well as SP) and be able to cut somebody in half (as Darth Maul was in the movie).

 

That could be included and still get a Teen rating, and be perfectly cool. I never said I wanted to see intestines and gallons of blood spewing everywhere with every hit. If I wanted that, I'd play Mortal Kombat.

 

I'm just asking for some of the realism we saw in the SW movies.

 

Also the fight on Jabbas ship in ROTJ shows, how a family friendly movie has to be. The light saber has absolutely NO effect on the enemies.

 

That is incorrect. Luke kills dozens of guys, they scream and clutch their wounds, and you see BLASTER BURNS on their scorched flesh. How is that non-violent? How about the Wampa in ESB SE? He has a blood stump and you see his severed arm fall to the ground as he roars in pain!

 

Or chopped off heads?

 

In TPM, several "heads" are ripped (not chopped, RIPPED) off. Notice Jabba as he eats that animal during the Pod Race. Notice that Sea Monster ripping the head off another sea monster with it's teeth in the underwater scenes as they go through the planet's core. As Yoda would say.. mmmmm?

 

 

We see chopped off arms in a lot of old stories and legends, it has a special meaning.

 

I agree, but then so do chopped off heads.

Ever read "Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight"? That archetype is called "the BEHEADING game"! So it's not out of place at all.

 

SW is a very unbloody universe.

 

There's much more blood in the SW movies than in the games, that's for sure. I've seen plenty of blood in the SW comics though.

 

 

To be cut into pieces by a fan (we don't see any body parts) is something else as if another person does it.

 

It's a trap. It cuts your body into pieces.. your head, your arms, legs, and chunks of flesh. I don't see any blood, they look like manaquin parts. But still, you have to admit, that's a pretty violent way to die.

 

Why is it okay to kill people by the dozens, choke them, cut off their arms, shoot them in the head, etc, but not okay to show a drop of blood, or to cut a person cleanly in two? Or cut off their head? Answer me that!

 

And beside the chopped arms it's impossible to do it.

 

That is incorrect. Did you ever see Die By the Sword? Did you ever see that mod somebody released for JK that let you cut off heads? I rest my case.

 

I was surprised by the FC intro. But I think they made an axception here, because they wanted to do a different game, not a SW game, but a real time strategy game in the SW universe.

Why is it any different if they make it an RTS instead of a FPS? They are both SW games, and they both show violence, and if I'm not mistaken, FC has the same rating.

 

I'm not against violence in games. why should I? But I don't think we will see too much of it in Obi Wan. That's all I say.

 

I agree with you. Most games are violent, even sports games. The exceptions being children's games and puzzle games. You can even make a case for Pac-Man being "violent."

 

All I am saying is I want to be able to cut off another player's arm or cut them in half if I pull off the right moves and hit them.

 

That's not much more than was in JK honestly. They didn't put it into MP because of lag, but nowadays, it's entirely possible to do and not cause lag. Take a look at any modern FPS and you'll see that's true.

 

Come on, do you really expect LEC will create something like Die By the Sword? You got to be kidding.

 

No, not at all. Adding the ability to hack off limbs in MP is no different from doing it in SP, except you need to make the parts disapear over time (like after 10 secs to a minute).

 

You should know them better than that.

 

No need to try to insult me, I'm just pointing out the facts that you seem to have missed, about SW, about JK, and about other modern games.

 

There's really no reason for the developers not to include the feature, that I can see.

 

It's not a big deal, but it's not the issue you make it out to be either.

 

Kurgan

 

[Guest Neumi]

Pretty long posting.

 

I don't try to insult anyone, okay? I thought talking to you I don't need to insert smileys. Seems I've been wrong.

 

I didn't MISS facts, but I thought about and learned they are unimportant. That's all.

A blaster burn in Star Wars is not a wound you notice if you don't look for it.

If I mean violence, than it is violence you see without searching it.

EVERY way to ie in this games is violent. What difference makes it if someone shoots you or if you fall into a fan? We should search another word than "violence".

 

At this point I can only repeat myself:

I don't think they will implement much possibilities to see blood and body parts.

 

ps: When I was talking about "not possible to ..." I was tallking about JK. Do you really think I am to stupid to know it would be possible to implement it? THAT is an insult (but I don't care).

 

Ok, that was it for this thread.

Answer if you want or let it be.

I surely don't want to break every posting into it's single words anymore.

 

Another thing: Since my mother tongue is not english: Do we always say "rip off" a head, no matter how it was done?

 

[Guest Darth Pie]

Rip, tear, slash, chop, cut.................I don't care what word you use for just as long as it falls off but not on it's own. heh

 

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" If you only knew the POWER of pie! "

[Guest Jedi-Qui-Gon]

<font color=green6>I dont know if someone already said this but in ROTJ a Rodians head falls off. Luke slashes him and you see his head fall off as he goes into the Sarlacc

 

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[Guest Darth Pie]

Oh yeah I remember that, I thought that part was funny as hell!!

 

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" If you only knew the POWER of pie! "

[Guest Kurgan]

Maybe I missed your point Neumi.

 

Let me sum up what I think...

[*]Point #1:</li> The cutting off of limbs has been in previous Star Wars games.

 

[*]Point #2:</li> Cutting off limbs is a common occurence in the Star Wars movies.

 

[*]Point #3:</li> It is not beyond the technological limits of Obi-Wan (or previous SW games, see #1).

 

[*]Point #4:</li> The games that featured slicable limbs still got a "Teen" rating.

 

[*]Point #5:</li> LEC tends to shoot for the "Teen" rating with their games, but is not above putting violence in their games, as Star Wars itself features violence.

 

[*]Conclusion:</li> There is no logical reason that Obi-Wan will NOT feature the ability to cut off limbs.

I think this makes perfect sense. My only addition to the above statements would be that I hoped that the cutting off of limbs would be a feature in Obi-Wan's multiplayer. JK had it in Single Player, but not Multiplayer.

 

There is no difference between cutting off the arm of an AI character, and cutting off the arm of a human-controlled character, EXCEPT accounting for lag (over time, piled up limbs will cause extra lag or clog the level).

 

This is easily remedied by making the severed apendages disapear over time (which is very easy to do).

 

I honestly don't care about blood in Star Wars games. I was only debating with you about that, because you seemed to be saying that a tiny bit of blood was totally against Star Wars because it had never appeared in the movies (which isn't true).

[*]Final Conclusion:</li>

 

Forget the blood/guts, I just want to be able to hack off limbs in Obi-Wan multiplayer.

Kurgan

 

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 24, 2000).]

[Guest Kurgan]

Looked through the Special Edition: didn't see any Rodians lose their heads, sorry.

 

The blood and gore of Star Wars:

 

ANH:

 

In the cantina scene, Obi-Wan hacks off the forearm of that alien who picks on Luke. You don't see the actual limb being cut off, but you do see the bloody limb lying on the floor as the alien screams.

 

ESB:

 

We see a Wampa feeding on a bloody carcass (Luke's Taun Taun?). The Wampa has blood dripping from its Jaws as well.

 

Luke's face is bloody after his encounter with the Wampa.

 

Near the beginning, Luke cuts off the Wampa's arm with his saber. You don't actually see it being sliced off, but you see the arm fall to the ground, and the Wampa (complete with bloody stump) roaring in pain.

 

Han slashes open the belly of his dead Taun Taun to help save Luke. You actually see the blade slash through the skin and the guts spill out. Of course you don't see any red blood.

 

While on Dagobah, Luke encounter's a "vision" of Darth Vader, and cuts off his head. You see the head cut off, but no blood.

 

During the final battle scene Luke has his hand slashed off by Vader, and we see it, including his hand actually flying off. He clutches the stump. No blood.

 

RotJ:

 

When the Rancor's neck is crushed by the pit door, that Luke activates with a rock in Jabba's Palace, you see a blood trickle down the beast's face.

 

During the final battle scene, Luke hacks off Vader's hand, leaving a smoking stump (with wires coming out).

 

TPM:

 

During the Bongo scenes ("the planet core") we see underwater, a Sea Monster having its head ripped off by another.

 

During the Pod Race scenes, we see Jabba rip the head off a live animal he's eating.

 

During the final battle, Darth Maul is sliced in half at the waist by Obi-Wan. We don't actually see the cut being made, but some claim we see a "spray" of blood mist as it happens. Maul's body falls in half as he plunges into the pit.

 

There you have it, and of course that doesn't include all the Droids who are dismembered by various cutting instruments, and the millions who die when planets and space stations are blown up, etc etc.

 

Kurgan

 

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 25, 2000).]

[Guest Jedi Master Xai-Qui]

Oka there is not much blood and guts in star wars. In ROTJ in Jabba's scenes they could not make people be cut in half cos they did not have the equipment avalible to make it look realistic! When jabba's rancor gets killed you can see some blood on it's neck where the door slammed down on it.

Also neumi I did not understand that thing about DF and JK and not selling well...in fact it just confused me.

Oh and I just want a to have an arm and cutting people in half!

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The truth?

Even Reality does not exist

 

[This message has been edited by Jedi Master Xai-Qui (edited June 24, 2000).]

[Guest Dave Maul]

Don't forget the confrontation in the cave in ESB, where Luke cuts "Vader"'s head off.

 

Both the games and the movies are violent. They've done it before, so I don't think LucasArts are going to stop now.

 

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Dave Maul

[Guest Kurgan]

Good point about "the cave" scene in ESB.

 

Kurgan

[Guest Orbvs_Terrarvm]

And don't forget about when Han Solo was frozen in carbonite. There wasn't any blood or anything like that but I remember that almost scarring me as a child. I almost wouldn't leave the theater when the movie was over I was so upset.

[Guest Joe Joe Binks]

Pansy...

[Guest Kurgan]

Please keep in mind the whole violence thing is just my opinion, based on what has come before.

 

The LEC developers basically said "there may or may not be hackable limbs" [in multiplayer], so at this point we don't know. They didn't state their reasons why of course.

 

It could be the game is so violent already, they don't want to push it to hurt the rating (shoot for a "Teen" rating and you get more sales from a wider demographic).

 

So it's up to them to decide in the end. Personally I hope we can, but that's just me. ; )

 

Kurgan

[Guest Orbvs_Terrarvm]

Joe Joe Binks, I am a pansy?

Well lets see.. ESB came out in 1981, I was in 1st grade then..... I probably was a 6 year old pansy in 1st grade. Great thing about maturity is progress which I am gathering you lack by the looks of your post.

 

 

[Guest Dave Maul]

This guy's been annoying everybody on the TPM forum lately. Just ignore him and he'll go away.

 

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Dave Maul

[Guest Saesee Tom]

Yeah, me especially. Say, did someone say something about no blood is Star Wars? When the arm is severed in the cantina, there is blood everywhere. Also, Owen & Beru get fried pretty nicely into realistic skeletons. (You have probably already said this)

 

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 28, 2000).]

[Guest Tie Guy]

Who cares if you can cut droids in half or dismember them. It should be expected. They do it in the movies. Plus, if it was in older games then it should be in the newer better game. Haven't you seen the trailer.(I think it is at gamespot.com). What i want to know is if you can cut through walls. That would be awesome! Just like Qui Gon cut through the blast doors. That would probably be really hard to do but if the whole physics things was realistic then you should be able to, right?