Comparison of "assfighting" to UT

[Spider AL]

its not one hit that kills. Its multiple hits that kill. The backslash hits several times as it passes.

 

Oh I'm quite aware of that Shocky. I'm sure you're aware also however, that when one is... ahem... in a prone position, any backstab is impossible to avoid. The strong backstab, is unstoppable. Realistically, you go down, you aren't getting up again. Even if some people escape through luck or judgement every so often, that's what I call a one-hit kill. Nobody can defeat someone who does the knockdown/backswing combo, unless they do it themselves. This is a hard lesson I've learned, while on the FFA servers. You may not want to be cheap, but by god, you have to be.

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by Spider AL

You may not want to be cheap, but by god, you have to be.

 

All the more reason to remove this.

 

It makes the game boring.

 

It's unstopable (if it connects).

 

It has no real costs associated with it.

 

Either add costs, make it blockable, reduce the damage, or get rid of the thing altogether.

 

Personally, I'm for a reduction in damage (to the point where it will not kill a person at 100 health, but would do about 80 damage), but that it has MAJOR costs associated with it.

 

And I think the backstab move should be the same for all stances: a back STAB as in light stance. Meaning you kill the guy behind you and only him.

[ShockV1.89]

Well, my point was actually that the move can be fixed by removing the multiple hit aspect. Make it so one hit will do about 45-50 damg, and then wont hit anymore during the animation.

 

ShockV1.89

[Jessicka]

there's another 1 hit kill thats much worse then this backwards attack stuff everyone on here is talking about. I am suprised no one has found it. Hint - it can be done in any stance and always kills in 1 hit instantly.

[Hell Raiser]

Originally posted by Jessicka

there's another 1 hit kill thats much worse then this backwards attack stuff everyone on here is talking about. I am suprised no one has found it. Hint - it can be done in any stance and always kills in 1 hit instantly.

 

Hrm... lets see here, oh wait, that sounds like the backstab and backswing moves.

[Jessicka]

nope it has nothing to do with any special moves. in fact it was there in 102 but i guess they didnt catch it. you can stand still and all you have to do is ONE thing. I just said in my first post it wasnt all the backward attack stuff. You need to be facing someone for sure and it's a very simple thing. A bug in a bind. Very simple to do.

[Torin]

I really don't understand all the whining. There is a great difference between a newbie trying to backstab, which usually equates to running around backwards flailing your saber, and the expert person trying to backstab, which usually equates to quick spins and fast executions, a sign of skill.

 

I personally am very good at the backstab/sweep, and I NEVER run around backwards. The majority of the times I use it to hit and kill are when I either a) crouch roll behind them, b) jump over their head and backstab after landing or c) pull them down on the ground and cut them up.

 

I do believe that if you hit someone in the back with a light saber, they should die. And it just so happens, that the best way to accomplish said objective is with the backstab/sweep, as you don't have to turn around after getting behind them. If you get pulled onto the ground at someone's feet, and are prone, you deserve to be dead if you don't get up.

 

Which is another thing! I have fought my grand share of "assmasters" since the patch, and our fights do go on a sizable amount of time, because we are usually both adept at getting up very quickly and leaping out of the way, which CAN BE DONE! I have fought and killed 4 ass fighters at once, mainly because I could get away from them, and they could not get away from me. It is about skill in it's use.. it does one hit kill, but any retard running around backwards is a VERY easy target. Just forward+jump+attack while in yellow mode and they die, at absolutely no risk to you. It's pretty easy to avoid moves that stay so close to the ground if you JUMP!

 

Newbies whining because they get owned by an experienced assmaster is just a sign of the great different in skill levels. Newbie ass fighters run around backwards, expert assmasters spin and execute. And if you are standing right next to someone constantly attacking them, and they manage to turn around IN YOUR FACE while having THEIR BACK TO YOU, and still kill you, well, you deserve what you've got coming. It is a short range attack, after all. Just, for god's sake, don't stand there.

 

All I'm saying is, I have had little trouble against assmasters by constantly staying in motion, and not letting my force drain down to a level where I will be constantly susceptable to force pulls. And if you can't dodge newbies running around backwards, then you're still a newbie.

[Solo4114]

Torin,

 

The move itself is not unbeatable. It's incredibly cheap, it makes the game dull and boring, but it's not unbeatable. IF you're only dealing with a single enemy. IE: if I'm in a duel, I may die from the backstab/sweep maybe once out of every fifteen duels.

 

The problem that I have is that with this move in the game, games degenerate into masses of people backstabbing and doing nothing but that. The game becomes a pointless exercise in seeing who can do the backstab fastest in a crowd of people. If you do it quicker than everyone else, you win. That's the game in a nutshell when you are on a server with a lot of people doing this move. Eventually, it becomes unavoidable, and you either switch servers or join in in the chaos.

 

The point that I'm making about this is that having this move as it is in the game makes the game MUCH less fun. Picture this. You're on a server. You're having great duels with other players. They use force powers, different moves, you counter with your own, etc. The game is intricate and fun.

 

Then some guy shows up on the server. He starts pulling people towards him and doing the backsweep. He runs up to people engaged in a one on one duel (not a challenge, just a fight), and sweeps 'em both. Pretty soon, using ONE MOVE, he gets to the top of the score list and pisses a number of people off on the way. Then, one of the pissed off people decides to give the guy a taste of his own medicine. He starts using the move exclusively on the guy. But he manages to catch someone else with the move while killing the first spammer. The guy HE kills ends up spamming the move too, now, to fight off TWO guys using the move. And it spreads. Until the whole server is dominated by assmasters doing one move over and over again like a broken record. Maybe a few other people join in the game and try to fight 'em off using different moves. And maybe they can fight off one or two of 'em. But then three or four others show up, and cluster around them, all trying to backstab each other, and even if you ARE agile and fast, you get caught in the crush eventually. As everyone backs into each other and spams the move over and over and over again. The game ceases to be fun.

 

THAT's my problem with it. Aside from it being cheap and not really belonging in the game, it's just no damn fun playing on a server dominated by one move.

 

I can handle myself easily against a single opponent spamming this move. I'll just keep running and kicking the guy until he stops. Or I'll dodge, or throw, or use lightning, etc. But against three or four assmasters, the game just isn't any fun and I lose interest VERY quickly.

 

THAT's the point.

[Torin]

So, what, YOU can't handle people, so it's not fun, so it deserves to not be in the game? Hmm.

 

Well, you know, when I fight against 4 assmasters at once, I usually don't even try to backstab, as it requires standing still for longer than I like, I usually just change to red style and slash them to death since they are constantly swinging and unable to block.

 

OR you could do the yellow jump attack.

 

OR you can use force powers to protect yourself.

 

And against backstabbers/sweepers, it does NOT have to degenerate to that on your part. There ARE MANY ways of killing someone who is trying to MAKE HIMSELF VULNERABLE TO YOU. Next time it happens, try switching to red style and slash him to death as he flails around with his blue/yellow style. Now, if you can't avoid getting killed while do nothing that keeps you stationiary, then well, I'm sorry for you. You can pull someone down and axe chop them to death just as easily as you can pull someone down and backsweep them, it just so happens that the backsweep is a more guaranteed kill than the previous.

 

It comes down to this, if you can't handle newbies walking backwards, then you suck. If you don't know to not walk into a crowd of 4 people trying to assmaster each other, then you suck too.

 

It isn't only assmasters killing the assmasters. Not to even mention guns... and I don't know about you, but it's PRETTY HARD to expose yourself to and kill a guy running around with a gun while he's shooting you in the back and head.

 

And during 1on1 duels, I do use backstab/sweep, I just mix it in with everything else I do. The process of setting up a backstab/sweep does leave you open, and easy to kill if yo see it coming. Not really the best tactic to use 100% of the time, as you are constantly exposing yourself to the enemy. So you roll around, jump over your enemy, etc. I usually get ready to turn and back attack my enemy whenever I notice I am low on force, as you can usually expect to be pulled next to someone.

 

A good jedi uses every tool available to him, and if you think you can't beat 1 guy using a gay technique then you're sadly mistaken. Worst comes to worst, just use the light side, turn on Protect and it's all a moot point. Just WAIT for him to backstab you, even STAND BEHIND HIM to encourage it, and when he does, cut him in half. Even if he hits you too, you'll stay up and he'll go down.

 

I think it's the people like you who I get the most enjoyment against in combat. I use backstab/sweeps against random people, then they whine and I go kill 3 of them at once. Then they just all start trying to back attack like newbies, RUNNING AROUND BACKWARDS and I switch to red and hack them up. Then they whine some more and try fighting me normally again, and I sweep them all to death. If you aren't as able, don't try acting like it. And until you can successfully fend opponents from this tactic, and COME OUT ON TOP (which can be done!) then there is some obvious room for improvement. So instead of whining about people who are better than you, using the current best tactic in the game to kill someone because they CAN, go play some and get better and maybe you'll have a different view of it all tomorrow.

[ShockV1.89]

>applauds Torin<

 

Well said, well said!

 

ShockV1.89

[Spider AL]

Torin, you obviously haven't played against anyone savvy enough to knock you over before backswinging you. The backswing by itself is not the most annoying thing in olde christendom. Pull/Backswing is. Force games degenerate into "who pulls wins." It's a one shot stop. When prone, you can't "switch to red and hack them up" because you're lying down on the floor. They can't miss either. If as I do, your opponent is using absorb, it degenerates into "wait until he's run out, then pull/backswing him."

 

If all you play is NF, then... erm... Fine. Whatever turns you on.

 

I think it's the people like you who I get the most enjoyment against in combat

 

This is just getting personal. Solo's just making his points, don't be childish.

[Torin]

Yes, I have fought against people who pull me down before attempting to backsweep me. What do I do? GET UP!!! Start hitting the jump button the second they pull you, and TADA, no sweep! NOT TO MENTION, if you keep enough force power in reserve WHILE YOU ARE FIGHTING, then you will NEVER be pulled down to someone's feet. It's like you people have never played the game before, and don't even understand how force powers work. And, obviously if you don't use level 3 Push, then you deserve every pulling down that happens to you.

 

You are losing to force powers, not the backsweep. So, if I pull you to my feet, and instead axe chop you to death, does that still make the backsweep broken??

 

Geez. Try keeping some force power in reserve next time, and IF YOU RUN OUT, run away for a minute, regenerate a little force and run back in! TADA, NO PULL DOWNS! Imagine that..

[JediKnight Dave]

you newb stfu omg please just go away Torin. people are piss because they want a good duel fight not ass in your face ****. i hope u use that name to play jk2 cause i am going find you and slap you around like a...

[Torin]

Well, actually, yes, I do use Torin as my name in game.

 

So Mr. Know-It-All, since you know what people want and exactly why they are complaining, what makes a good duel?

 

I know that I don't run around ass first, so I obviously don't fit into your category. And when I duel, I am not always looking for an opportunity to backstab/sweep. I do however, switch to yellow and backsweep if ever I successfully pull them down on the ground to my feet, but generally I use heavy style and try to cut them down while they are frantically swinging, which is what all these backwards walking twits you refer to are doing.

 

So please, if you can't recognize a newb from someone's who has actually played the game, then I can't wait till you find me on a server, and I hope it's a duel server.

 

And Spider, you're right. I apologize Solo. I just get aggrevated easily by people whining about dying to a certain move over and over when it's obvious they aren't doing their part to avoid said move.

[Spider AL]

Yes, I have fought against people who pull me down before attempting to backsweep me. What do I do? GET UP!!!

 

This isn't technically true, though it is true in the majority of cases as a lot of people who try the combo have trouble positioning themselves correctly to start the sweep. I and many others however, have cultivated the ability to pull and sweep in one single motion. No amount of button-tapping can help you evade it. That's why it's now known as the cheap one-hit-kill, and that's why it's the most popular move among those who wish to win. It's still boring however... I mean, since the move is so fast, one must use it almost exclusively. One tedious move all the time taints even the sweet, never-dulled taste of victory.

 

NOT TO MENTION, if you keep enough force power in reserve WHILE YOU ARE FIGHTING, then you will NEVER be pulled down to someone's feet.

 

That's simply not true. In the middle of a strike or shot, or while running, you can always be pulled or pushed with level 3 of both powers, regardless of your force stock. That's another reason the move is so prevalent, and cheap. Nobody but Absorb users like myself have any immunity to it.

 

And Jediknight Dave, you appear far too young to post on these boards.

[Chanke4252]

UT is the most ballanced and fun MP game that I have ever played. I dont really think that any game, except early versions of counterstrike (which i never played so I wont pretend to know about it), can stack up against it when it comes to MP. I didnt really like some of the guns, but that was just for cosmetic reasons usually. The redeemer is always fun if you can manage to get your hands on it. (insert The Beatles' song "yesterday" here) Sadly, I havent played that game in a while due to my newly found lack of a broadband connection. Those were the days.

[ShockV1.89]

The potency of the move is exactly what I'm talking about in comparison to the shock combo of UT It's so damn useful. Is it cheap? Sorta. Is it a one hit kill? Almost always, if it hits right. Is it fast? Hell yeah, shock combo is real fast at close range, and so is the backstab. Backslash is a little slower, but it has a greater range.

 

Perhaps the shock combo is a bit more counterable than the backstab, but not by much.

 

All the backstab needs is a little bit of tweaking, and its a perfectly viable technique, much like the shock combo.

 

I must admit, though, clan games of UT became incredibly boring. It boiled down to "who can shock combo the fastest, and who can pin the enemy spawn points with combos." Bleh.

 

ShockV1.89