editormg Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Bah thats like saying after watching empire strikes back "That was lame artoo didnt have a pericope in the first one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 For those talking about how the saber duels back in episode 4-6 being slow and dramatic, there reason is according to lucas is that the two jedi weren't in their prime, which is why for episode 1-3, the jedi are faster, they are in their prime, and can do some serious ASS kicking... Even Yoda, being 800 years old, was kicking ass... You da man Yoda! but thats what he said an a special they had Thursday night on TV. He talked about how Jedis in Ep1 -3 are in their prime, and still are young for the most part, and saber duels were more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmar Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 as for r2's rockets, lucas covers all the bases: http://www.holonetnews.com/55/business/1359_2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sintax Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 R2 may have had gadgets but roket boosters (whatever they called) are a bit more than a gadget. I find it easy to believe that he has his little claw, periscope and other stuff but the ABILLITY TO FLY! I figure something that useful would have been seen at least once in one of the situations in the originals. As for tech sure computers have changed alot but where talking about an extremely large scale here, but in the same timefram AK-47 machine guns have kept their status as one of the best pieces of weaponary. I wouldn't have a problem with just say difference in standard weapon and a helmet or two but it's everything from spacecraft to assult walkers, to trooper armour! I dont see how r2d2 and c3po would be kept around for 30years if they had replaced so much so quickly. As for the chrome and polish sure they've had years of peace but that doesn't bridge the poverty gap. Australia, Norway and much much of Europe have had long periods peace but you dont see 50 % of the population driving Luxury cars and most houses could use repair somewhere. Also keep in mind that the Republic isn't a perfectly functioning system (according to the movie) and it hadn't been formed for verry long either. But it's more "feel" and atmosphere which is being ruined rather than logic. Sure Lucas may say that they are not in their prime (I argued against this in a post + if an Arthritic yoda can do it why cant a guy with state art cybernetics) but hell I know more than one 50 year old who can beat just about any 25 year old I know in a boxing match (rather scary) and they havn't trained properly in 15 years. The real reason is that it is simply more trendy to introduce speed and flashy tricks. As for Lucas not brownnosing holywood for cash....well where do you think all the guaranteed profits (even if the movie was just footage of a cow chewing its cud, there would be profits). Plus he also recalled alot of the advertising, banners and stuff from the cinemas after they were screened (not sure on this as I dont work in a cinema so I dont care) which + more $$$$ for lucas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaJo Kesea Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Sintax, I don't agree with you. 1. R2's rockets were hinted at by Hasbro during Episode I, and the panels are sure enough there in the movies. I own an R2D2 that you can twist the head and the rockets extend from the side. I got this back in 1999. 2. The galaxy is on its way to a great economic fall when all money and time will go into weaponry and less money will be allocated to giving queens and senators beautiful chromed starships. Remember, Episode I covered a time when everything was streamlined and beautiful, when there was the beginning of the end of peace in the galaxy. Episode II hints at where Palpatine's power is going to take those ships that are beautiful and turn them to rusted garbage haulers with gun turrets. 3. Yoda uses the force to fight. You notice after his battle when he lets the force rest in him, he has to get his cane back. For Vader, sure he once fought with martial arts as Anakin, but even with the force, do you think he could launch himself into the air and do backflips with all that stuff he wore? He'd either break something or get tangled up in his cape, catching it on fire with his saber. His armor hindered him, not the force. As for Luke, he was a Jedi taught way later than when he was supposed to be, and he was learning an art that was many years old. Maybe his forte wasn't the martial arts like the knights of the Republic, but determined concentration instead. I think we'll see Episode III filled with bigger, less sleek battleships and more gadgety lightsabers. I predict we'll see prototypes for the X-Wing and Y Wing as the Separatists realize that the whole war was devised in the mind of a Sith and they become a rebel alliance with little funds and scrap metal. I agree to an extent that Lucas should consider livening up the graphics in the original trilogy after the completion of Episode III, though. I don't think he should change the action at all, but he could make it look like the films were all made with the same technology. I still can't get over that stupid blaster bolt that comes out of the AT-AT to destroy the shield generator on Hoth in ESB. That was so lame, but if Lucas would just add a white core to the bolt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartis Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Lucas has already stated in an interview that Episode 3 is going to be very dark, he goes on to say something about how the current fan base may not like it or that it may not be able to keep not having a PG13 slapped on it. But he goes onto to say 'Thats how the story goes, the fans know this nothing I can really do' Personally I liked Episode 2, had alot of the key things that Empire had when I first watched it. Lately I'm beginning to think alot of people are WAY too picky about things that happen in the movies. Sure the saber combat is different but Episode 4-6 Obi Wan was old(and not as powerful as Yoda so no using hte force to speed/agility himself) Vader was atleast 1/2 machine(I really doubt his suit itself couldn't have been bypassed to do alot of the stunts in Ep 1-2) wich I'm sure even if the best machinery in the galaxy it still would have hindered him, Luke trained by Yoda for a time but I didn't see any saber combat covered in the training of course this younging wouldn't have known how to really successfully fight with a saber take it from Obi Wan in Episode 2 "If you practiced your saber fighting you might rival that of Master Yoda", Luke really doesn't have anybody to practice against. But the R2 rockets throws me off abit, Not pissed they had them in there just didn't feel that they were justified to come out in Episode 2, Should have atleast been something in Episode 1 that he used them for briefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daybeez Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 OK heres my 2 cents on the progression of star wars movies.. OT = origional trilogy pre = prequels About Starships... Yes they seem shiny-er and sleeker in PRE , but did you see any ships the size of a star destroyer or super star destroyer in the prequels? NO. And in the future, OT, it seems they figured out that there is power in numbers.. compare the number of tie fighters the empire had compared to .. say... the trade federation army. Also if you had not noticed all the planetary systems have alot more money and freedom in the prequels.. that because in OT everyone is under the thumb of the empire and what you see now in the prequels will eventually get destroyed. SABER FIGHTING.... Well technically speaking, why on earth would lucas NOT make the saber duels as visually stunning as possible, given the advancements in special effects since 1977?!?!?! Can you picture darth maul fighting with slow deliberate overhead swings??? it would look stupid, its too late to change the duels in OT (not that he should) so why hinder a great movie just to apease nay-sayers? BUT.. If you wanna talk about the story line i think its pretty simple... Vader obviously realized he was much more adept with the force than luke so he chose to rip large objects from the walls and floors and hurl them at luke (empire strikes back). When you're the dark lord of the sith you dont rely on saber tactics to win fights.. you use the force!! and remember.. he did not want to kill luke in the throne room.. he wanted to convert him. Not to mention he was wearing 50,000 lbs of mechanical body parts. (exageration) Obi-wan was in the same boat for the most part.. and it was obvious he never planned on winning that fight in EP4 , he sacrificed himself to save luke and company... he started luke on his way and was ready for the next life.. err.. whatever you call it when you become a blue transparent freak. And luke.. well... considering he started almost 15 years late in standard jedi training, with only one previous jedi vs jedi encounter before RotJ i think he did pretty good. Count how many times he swings his saber, and compare that to the jedi in the prequels with all their training.. As for R2D2 .. has anyone read the link on Delmar's previous post.. if not, please do so before making any more stupid comments about his jets... Lucas DID cover his ass on that one. BTW delmar , thanks for the link ive never been to that site before and its a good one. Im sure someone is gonna find something wrong with my opinion here but i doubt it will be anyone, such as myself.. who actually saw the original STAR WARS in theatre so many years ago.. Ive been a star wars fan longer than most of you have been on this earth and i personally love the fact that lucas has continued his masterpiece which is the star wars universe. Without the prequels most of you would have forgotten about lightsabers and the force by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daybeez Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Oh , and one more thing... LOVE SCENES.. Do you honestly think anakin would turn to the dark side over a relationship as watered down as .. han and leia ? In case you didnt figure it out by now that eventually becomes his breaking point. Its a bold move by lucas and i think it payed off big, without that type of character development people would say in EP3... " that makes no sense he was such a good guy why did he turn bad?" His over-the-top devotion for her will become his folly. And besides that Nat Portman is NICE ! Any red blooded hetro male should cheer for scenes like that! If not, wait till you hit puberty and you will know what im talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sintax Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 ...sigh....ok Nothing wrong with having love scenes, the acting could have been better and they could have been done executed much better but this is not a romance movie, so you cant be to picky about that. Sure Vader may have armour but theres not hell of alot of it. If vader can swing, walk and jump he can move like the arthritic yoda (using the force) plus remember Vader is much stronger than yoda. You can give a million and one reasons why he would be slow but those million and one reasons have the same basic counters. As for Maul. Yes I can visualise him fighting slower, as thats how anyone not in a movie would fight ("speed catches up with you" and exposes many weaknesses that a simple stab can fix as theres no strength to stop the thrust). Or better yet have maul be fast and the two he is fighting at the regular speed. This would be perfect as not only would it make Maul one hell of a dualist but his actor is the only one with a large amount of martial arts training and therefor he is the only one who can pull off the shear amount of speed without look fake. Technically maul would not have been able to fend of two powerful dualists who can move at that speed, unless they tried to fight one at a time or Maul possesed some amazing advantage over them (which he didin't). I have no problem with Maul and Yoda +few more being fast, I'm saying every boy and his dog should not look like they are whirrling a boton (marchig band thingy) but fighting. However thats just the logical arguments. I feel that the speed doesn't let you be on the edge of your seat waiting for someone to give in a saber lock, instead you say wow "thats impresive" and then take in less + real fights are not this fast. R2d2 flying emphasis on: "1999" (if it's older and u just bought it in '99, but you will also note lukes muscle bound proportions in the late 90's toys). Bottom line is it is still lame. Tech- dont think theres much more to say but... The nice chromy, shiny and slick ships and vehicles that we now see in the pre-movies would by logic the old rusted bombs of the originals instead we see more chunkier less "startrek" ships and vehicles in use. Also America is called the greatest democracy in the world (at least by Bush), it citizens have amazing amounts of freedom of speech and access to weapons. The country it'self has a huge trading advantage over almost every country in the world yeat if you look at newyork+washington it's not that prety and the average quality of cars+buildings is overall in the "could be better" stage. -dont make this thread political, by the way just an example, if offend you email me- i may be being nitpicky but avoiding other details, acting, characters and storyling (which I see as nitpicky) these issues and flaws are what I and most people I know feel detract from the movie. However it is to late to change it now and I agree with a comment I heard that episode 1 "highlandered" the series. Episode 2 was a HUGE ASTRONOMICAL improvement on Episode 1 but it still just doen't sit right with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaJo Kesea Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Here's some more input from me... I think the love scene wasn't lame at all for a Star Wars love scene. Sure this movie isn't "The Horse Whisperer" or "Bridges Over Madison County," and I would never want it to be. I think that Lucas did a fine job of balancing action and romance. I wonder...is it a more sexual sort of love we're looking for in a movie these days? Well, if that's what we want, we can forget the PG rating, and I think that would be another extreme entirely. (The violence could be upped ever so slightly, but I don't think we shoud move into the sexual realm.) As for saber fighting, the force gave Maul aggressive speed, and it gave Qui-Gon and Obi Wan speed to keep up. Notice "Force Speed" is used in Jedi Outcast, because it is indeed a force power. How else could Yoda do all those flips and swings when he is half crippled from age? Remember, too, that something terrible hapens to Anakin in Episode III, and who knows? It could be possible that Vader forgot how to do the martial arts in conjunction with the force, or lost such flexibility with his legs and arms when that big mass of circuitry was placed in his head. As for the political system and economics... do you think Lucas would model his movie entirely after our political system? Goodness, the movie would have an R rating because everyone would be getting rompy with a female secretary or office worker on all those platforms in the senate! (Bill Clinton reference) But seriously, the government system on Coruscant works well, and ther IS money to pay for big, beautiful starships. Palpatine has a different idea though. He wants less beauty and more power, but he has to get to a position where he can demand such a thing. Notice the early Star Destroyers, and how they are starting to take on that rugged appearance. Let's see what lucas has in mind for Episode III. There's a piece of the puzzle missing, and I think in the end we'll all be applauding him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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