ArtifeX's "What Needs to Happen in 1.04"

[Xzzy]

heh the red overhead chop is still more than capable of one hit kills, I've roasted people who were at 100 health and 25 shields (ie, I was spawn killing) doing that.

 

Just depends on how squarely you nail them, due to 1.03's variable damage.

[ldeviator]

Most definitely... especially if they are knocked down and you plant it just right they are toast.

 

When they are standing they can block usually ... at least I think they can... I could be wrong... out of habit from 1.02 I back up about 3 steps when they start that animation and then charge in...

[rwhitty]

Let me start by saying I'm by no means a great player:) Looking through a lot of the posts on this site it seems to me that the main problem ppl have is the spamming of "special moves". Simple solution, easy to implement in a patch.....special moves require 100% of a full force pool. No more spamming:D Well, that's my 2 cents worth.

[Moradivh]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

 

Wish you'd lasted through the rotation long enough for me to have at you again. That was a painful way to go after such a long win-streak. I could have stood for a redeeming.

 

Heh, my apologies. But as I see it, dying before the rematch was probably the smartest move I pulled all night.

[Twins of Doom]

artifex, we need to go in a server without 15 other people, because a person can never "get into a groove" unless they are starting "in a groove"

[Moradivh]

You know how I'd balance duels?

 

1) Make it impossible to backswing/backstab a knocked-down target, as well as a getting-up-from-the-ground target, and/or a kicking/jumping target. That should help stop duels from degenerating into how often you can trip your opponent, while still allowing skilled players to occasionally take advantage of downed enemies by using normal saber moves.

 

2) Nerf backswing (maybe 60 damage, or 120-180 if it hits multiple times, but that's just a guess... it'd need some testing). A heavy backswing might do 10-20 more damage (since it's a little harder to recover from a failed swing) but that's it.

 

3) Buff normal saber swings (200% damage for fast stance, 150% for medium and strong styles).

 

4) Any apponents not using a lightsaber should take 150% damage from saber hits, because of their reduced ability to block. That ought to help even the score between gunfighters and saberists.

 

5) Saber throw: increase the force required by 150%. This is just a personal thing for me: I HATE saber throw. I hate the idea of using your sword like a gun and running like a spamming little coward the whole duel. It's probably used more often than ANY other swing (more than backswing), even in full-force games. That's just retarded.

 

6) No-force duels should NOT allow saber throw. This one's a no-brainer by now.

 

 

And that's about it. I also agree with ArtifeX's suggestions about drain, heal, DFA, and NF kicking/wall-walking. And I'll admit that several of my fixes are quite similar to yours, Artifex. But as far as I'm concerned, the rest of the stuff on your list isn't necessary. A lot of those ideas are cool and might help add realism, but frankly I'd be satisfied with Raven's current system if they just fixed the glaring balance problems. There are TONS of saber moves available already, and I'd be happy enough if ALL of them were viable at every level of play. That alone would be enough depth in gameplay to last me until the sequel, or expansion pack.

 

- Blind Moradin

[Twins of Doom]

1) Make it impossible to backswing/backstab a knocked-down target, as well as a getting-up-from-the-ground target, and/or a kicking/jumping target. That should help stop duels from degenerating into how often you can trip your opponent, while still allowing skilled players to occasionally take advantage of downed enemies by using normal saber moves.

 

2) Nerf backswing (maybe 60 damage, or 120-180 if it hits multiple times, but that's just a guess... it'd need some testing). A heavy backswing might do 10-20 more damage (since it's a little harder to recover from a failed swing) but that's it.

 

3) Buff normal saber swings (200% damage for fast stance, 150% for medium and strong styles).

 

4) Any apponents not using a lightsaber should take 150% damage from saber hits, because of their reduced ability to block. That ought to help even the score between gunfighters and saberists.

 

i'm in totaly aggreement with you there!

 

just one thing about backswing and knock down opponent

 

i think it should be it is possible to do, but the saber goes over them while they are lying down on the ground, this way you can get up and walk into it, but otherwise your safe

[ldeviator]

1) Make it impossible to backswing/backstab a knocked-down target, as well as a getting-up-from-the-ground target, and/or a kicking/jumping target. That should help stop duels from degenerating into how often you can trip your opponent, while still allowing skilled players to occasionally take advantage of downed enemies by using normal saber moves.

 

That's cool... that is like the other way of doing what I was talking about, and actually I invision it would be programmatically easier then trying to limit the downing of enemies.

 

Good idea!

 

Hell.. come to notice.. them are all great ideas

[Flash25]

After reading Artifex's suggestions, all I gotta say is, if that is what 1.04 turned out to be, I'd play it. I was wondering what you guys would think of another suggestion.

 

I like the 1.03 patch. I like it better than the original game, but it is hard to hit people due to the increased blocking. I don't really have a problem with that, but a lot of people do. I'm also a fan of the saber battles in the movies. There aren't a lot of force power use in the movies, but the game is chock full of it. I wouldn't mind to see less force power use while not eliminating it completely. What if attacking and blocking used force power?

 

The force powers would have to be tweaked but I think it makes sense. A Jedi is able to do what he does with a light saber because he has the power of the force to control it. The more you attack or defend, the more force power you use. This way you have to make a choice. Do you use a force power, or save your energy for a better attack.

 

I think this could fix a lot of things. If someone comes on strong with an attack, they can wear their opponent down and eventually break their defense. If someone is spamming push/pull, they run the risk of not having enough force power to ward off an attack.

 

They could also make it so you need a certain amount of force to do a certain move, and that move would use a particular amount of force. A powerful backstab, or DFA would use up a lot of power and limit the amount of times you could do it in a row.

 

I like how force powers are seldom used in the movies. Saber combat is too intense to be pushing people all the time. That's why Darth Maul only tried pushing Obi Wan once. I think it would strike a nice balance between using full force on a server and no force at all. If this has been stated before, sorry for repeating an old idea.

[Moradivh]

In reflection, I'm starting to think my normal saber-swing buff ideas are off-base. Maybe it should be 200% damage for fast style, 175% for medium and 150% for strong. Anyways, whatever... it's hard to tell without a lot of testing.

Originally Posted by Twins of Doom

 

i'm in totaly aggreement with you there!

 

just one thing about backswing and knock down opponent

 

i think it should be it is possible to do, but the saber goes over them while they are lying down on the ground, this way you can get up and walk into it, but otherwise your safe

 

That'd be great, but as I recall the backsweep animation literally sweeps the ground. If you performed it on a fallen enemy it'd look pretty stupid, as the saber would travel right through his body with no damage. Furthermore you have to ask yourself: can I still hit him with the sweep while he's getting up, or jumping away, or trying to kick me after being knocked down? If the answer to any of these is "yes," then the trip-sweep still gives you a free hit, which means people will still spam it non-stop.

 

Frankly, I think cutting off the ability to sweep a tripped foe is the best solution. Sweep would still pack a decent punch against a standing enemy. Besides, a solution more complicated than this would probably take several MORE patches just to balance right, and we don't even know for sure if Raven's making 1.04, let alone any patches afterwards!

 

I know this fix of mine technically limits play options, which is bad, but I consider it a lesser evil. Would you rather play a deep and well-balanced game that denies the use of a small exploitable tactic (trip-then-sweep), or a game that forces you to spam that one tactic over and over just to compete with everyone else?

 

Flash25:

Yeah, this is always the debate: how can we make combat more like the movies?

 

I share your view that force powers should be spammed so much in saber fights. But getting it to balance out is terribly hard to pull off.

 

Let's say Raven took your advice, right now, and made saber swings drain your force. The first battle begins, a Light Jedi VS a Sith Lord. They charge each other. The Jedi turns on Force Absorb and the Sith fires off a blast of lightning, which is instantly deflected by absorb. So basically nothing happens.

 

Now they're in sword range, and they start hacking at each other. Both their force bars drain to nothing after a few rounds. Every time they try to use their saber their force is sucked dry. So finally the Sith Lord gets pissed and starts running away, hoping to recharge. The Jedi races after him. After about a minute of boring, monotonous running, the Sith tries to shoot another bolt of lightning. But oh-no! The Jedi's force has recharged too, and he turns force absorb back on. So again, no damage. Wash, rinse, repeat, until someone dies by the sword.

 

So basically, this makes force powers useless and SEVERELY slows down gameplay, since the opponents spend more than half the time running away from each other, waiting for their force to recharge.

 

Also, you mention force drainage being different VS attack and defense. That's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would solve anything. Let's say you lost more energy trying to defend than to attack: that would encourage people to be aggressive, right? So you'd probably have 2 opponents trying their hardest to attack MORE than the other guy. I worry that this would degenerate gameplay into frantic button-smashing instead of skillful tactics, turning the whole fight into one big saber lock. The guy with the twitchiest reflexes always wins. Am I right?

 

Another way to solve force spamming might be to lump HUGE casting delays on every ability. For instance, players could only cast push/pull once every 60 seconds, regardless of how much spare energy they have. In short, they simply CAN'T spam -- it's not possible. Unfortunately, this might have the side effect of making force powers almost useless, or at least painfully predictable -- every 60 seconds there'd be a traditional EXPLOSION of force powers from both players, and then the no-force fight would continue again. I'm not sure how many people would enjoy this sort of thing... but then again, plenty of people play NF games, so who knows? It might be a controversial subject. Somebody oughta make a mod to test this casting-delay thing.

 

Anyways, thanks for the replies!

 

- Blind Moradin

[Galakgorr]

Nerfing the backsweep in that manner (making it unable to hit downed targets) would only reduce combat options, which is a bad thing. It obviously needs to be tweaked, but maybe in a different way... reducing damage primarily, and maybe also adding some chance to block the sweeps (this would be plausible with the 1.04 blocking system proposed here).

 

And as far as force power delays... there already is a slight delay, which isn't too effective, but sixty seconds would be way too much. Combat is so fast-paced that delays like that would ruin the game. Besides, that would make having a force pool utterly useless, thereby ruining Drain yet again.

 

Honestly, the changes that really need to be made aren't all that drastic. A decent interactive blocking system, a few tweaks to force powers, and a few changes to saber attacks (backstabs, general damage and spin damage) would be enough to make the game much more playable.

 

Oh, and please make the light style lunge aim-able. It wasn't an overused move to begin with, and it didn't need nerfing.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Moradivh

You know how I'd balance duels?

 

1) Make it impossible to backswing/backstab a knocked-down target, as well as a getting-up-from-the-ground target, and/or a kicking/jumping target. That should help stop duels from degenerating into how often you can trip your opponent, while still allowing skilled players to occasionally take advantage of downed enemies by using normal saber moves.

 

That seems like a more complicated workaround than necessary. If you want to keep people from using the knockdown/kill strategy, then just give them better, more powerful options to kill their opponent while he's standing up. Don't take away something that's useful; just add more useful things.

 

2) Nerf backswing (maybe 60 damage, or 120-180 if it hits multiple times, but that's just a guess... it'd need some testing). A heavy backswing might do 10-20 more damage (since it's a little harder to recover from a failed swing) but that's it.

 

You aware that that would put the backsweep at less damage than a normal strong swing by your own formula below? That would make the backsweep not worth the risk.

 

3) Buff normal saber swings (200% damage for fast stance, 150% for medium and strong styles).

 

That would end up like this:

Light stance: current-- 20-30 proposed-- 40-60

Medium stance : current-- 30 proposed-- 45

Strong stance: current-- 40-60 proposed-- 60-90

 

 

4) Any apponents not using a lightsaber should take 150% damage from saber hits, because of their reduced ability to block. That ought to help even the score between gunfighters and saberists.

 

That would certainly be a big incentive to use the saber when you get close. I wouldn't have any problem with that, though I haven't had any difficulty with gunners.

 

5) Saber throw: increase the force required by 150%. This is just a personal thing for me: I HATE saber throw. I hate the idea of using your sword like a gun and running like a spamming little coward the whole duel. It's probably used more often than ANY other swing (more than backswing), even in full-force games. That's just retarded.

 

If your opponents are using saber throw that much, then you should be happy. Just stay about 10 meters away and let them exhaust their Force Pool. Them: empty. You: full. Them=dead.

 

6) No-force duels should NOT allow saber throw. This one's a no-brainer by now.

 

There was a change to the bitmath for the g_forcepowerdisable server setting that wasn't announced until later. this caused a lot of servers to have saber throw turned on during a supposedly no-force match. It's no longer a problem.

 

And that's about it. I also agree with ArtifeX's suggestions about drain, heal, DFA, and NF kicking/wall-walking. And I'll admit that several of my fixes are quite similar to yours, Artifex. But as far as I'm concerned, the rest of the stuff on your list isn't necessary. A lot of those ideas are cool and might help add realism, but frankly I'd be satisfied with Raven's current system if they just fixed the glaring balance problems. There are TONS of saber moves available already, and I'd be happy enough if ALL of them were viable at every level of play. That alone would be enough depth in gameplay to last me until the sequel, or expansion pack.

 

- Blind Moradin

 

My sentiments exactly. Either make what's there useful, or add more stuff that's useful. The former would certainly seem to be easier.

[Moradivh]

Originally Posted by Galakgorr

 

Nerfing the backsweep in that manner (making it unable to hit downed targets) would only reduce combat options, which is a bad thing.

Yeah, that's almost the exact same sentence I had in my post. I repeat my opinion that it's the lesser of two evils.

 

And as far as force power delays... there already is a slight delay, which isn't too effective, but sixty seconds would be way too much. Combat is so fast-paced that delays like that would ruin the game. Besides, that would make having a force pool utterly useless, thereby ruining Drain yet again.

 

Not exactly. Drain would still be the Dark Jedi's only natural form of healing. And obviously different powers might have different casting delays -- 60 seconds was just a number I blurted out. Also, I wasn't suggesting Raven patch it like this. Obviously it'd alter gameplay in a very negative way for many people, and would demand a lot of balance adjustments to force powers and the pool. In all, I agree it's not worth the effort. But I'd be curious if someone hacked restraints like that in a mod, tried to experiment with em.

 

Originally Posted by ArtifeX

 

That seems like a more complicated workaround than necessary. If you want to keep people from using the knockdown/kill strategy, then just give them better, more powerful options to kill their opponent while he's standing up. Don't take away something that's useful; just add more useful things.

Too complicated? I thought my fix was brutally simple. Too controversial, maybe. But trip-sweeping goes beyond "useful": it almost guarantees a free hit every time, which to my logic means it'll be spammed a lot more than it should be, which makes it a tedious game-shrinking uber hit instead of a cool option.

 

Instead, we could try tweaking push/pull to make tripping slightly harder, but then you run the risk of making those powers useless again. Plus kicks pretty much do the same thing, and are hard enough to pull off as it is.

 

You aware that that would put the backsweep at less damage than a normal strong swing by your own formula below? That would make the backsweep not worth the risk.

 

Near as I can tell, it'd STILL be more useful than the fast forward lunge is now (better range, multiple hits possible), and I still use the lunge to good effect in matches. Granted I don't spam it, but it's a nice occasional sneak attack that takes a lot of players off-guard. Including you, if I recall correctly.

 

Of course, the lunge might need to be buffed slightly to compete with stronger normal swings. But the gist is this: I don't want either move to provide an uncounterable free hit. Idunno, maybe 90-180 damage for backswing, now that I think of it.

That would end up like this:

Light stance: current-- 20-30 proposed-- 40-60

Medium stance : current-- 30 proposed-- 45

Strong stance: current-- 40-60 proposed-- 60-90

Yeah, I thought about that. Like I said in a more recent post, I think maybe normal should get 175% the damage it has now, instead of 150%.

 

So it'd work out something like this:

Fast stance: 40-60

Medium stance: 50-55

Strong stance: 60-90

 

So on average, medium style would do slightly more reliable damage than fast style, with a greater range and defense-breaking capability, and more patient combos. Strong stance would do a lot more damage than either, but its weakness is still slowness and predictability.

 

Also, keep in mind that I'm not suggesting Raven use these exact numbers. They're just rough guidelines off the top of my head. A little in-house testing on Raven's part can probably figure out the exact stats.

That would certainly be a big incentive to use the saber when you get close. I wouldn't have any problem with that, though I haven't had any difficulty with gunners.

Neither do I, on dueling maps. But when they're firing rockets at me things get more complicated.

 

Still, I must admit something: I haven't played a heavy-weapon multiplayer game since 1.02, and I rarely played it then. Why? Because a) gunners would rape my dumbass lightsaber and b) if I wanted to fight with guns, I'd go play Quake/Counterstrike/SOF2-demo -- JK2 is all about the laser-swords, baby!

 

When I suggested the double-saber-damage thing, I was using the complaint in your "fix list" as a reference: sabers doing pathetic damage, guns having extreme advantage. Anyhoo, a regular CTF/FFA player who uses both guns and sabers might give better insight on this subject.

 

If your opponents are using saber throw that much, then you should be happy. Just stay about 10 meters away and let them exhaust their Force Pool. Them: empty. You: full. Them=dead.

Meh. That's a no-brainer. I can defend myself against mindless spammers. But even in your average fight you tend to see 3-10 saber throws going back and forth. The move is old! And if it required 50% more force energy, I still think it'd be very useful, but people would be more thoughtful about using it.

 

Again, this is just a personal thing for me. How often do you see saber throws in the movies? That's right: ONCE, by Darth Vader. Seeing the move over and over in every match just makes duels look fake. It'd be a lot cooler as a clever, occasional sneak attack than what it is now: a gun that pierces almost every opening and badass special move in the game, over and over.

 

There was a change to the bitmath for the g_forcepowerdisable server setting that wasn't announced until later. this caused a lot of servers to have saber throw turned on during a supposedly no-force match. It's no longer a problem.

Good to know, thanks. But I believe the problem is still rampant on the average-joe NF duel server, not that I've played many of them recently. I could be wrong.

My sentiments exactly. Either make what's there useful, or add more stuff that's useful. The former would certainly seem to be easier.

Agreed. Much easier, considering the game's already been released and Raven's busy with other projects.

 

- Blind Moradin

[Ono-Sendai]

I'm just going to thank Artifex for sticking up for all those who actually know how to play the game and don't want to see it 'newbified'. I don't agree with everything he proposes, but his heart is definately in the right place.

 

Someone's gotta do it, and I certainly don't have the time to... =)

 

Ono-Sendai

[Galakgorr]

All that saber throw crap would easily be fixed by putting in a longer delay between uses, or increasing the amount of force power necessary to throw it. I'd rather see a delay, just cause powers in 1.3 use so much of your pool as it is. Maybe if the delay were significantly longer, the damage could be upped a bit as well, making it a sneaky, formidable attack, but not a spammable one.

 

edit: i know they fixed the throwing problem in no-force duels, but in FFA duels it's still annoying as hell. i fought a few people that just held down the roll key and the throw key and spun around like morons. at that point i gave up, severed the duel and fired a rocket into his face. there's no fun in fighting like that.

[ArtifeX]

Ono:

 

"(strangle)...I'm just tryin' to help!...(strangle)" -- Lando

[tempest8008]

Originally posted by Galakgorr

All that saber throw crap would easily be fixed by putting in a longer delay between uses, or increasing the amount of force power necessary to throw it. I'd rather see a delay, just cause powers in 1.3 use so much of your pool as it is. Maybe if the delay were significantly longer, the damage could be upped a bit as well, making it a sneaky, formidable attack, but not a spammable one.

 

edit: i know they fixed the throwing problem in no-force duels, but in FFA duels it's still annoying as hell. i fought a few people that just held down the roll key and the throw key and spun around like morons. at that point i gave up, severed the duel and fired a rocket into his face. there's no fun in fighting like that.

 

I've never severed a duel....

How do you do it?

 

Oh, and as for saber throw I'd like it made quicker, like Vader's in RoTJ, BUT if you can react fast enough I think Push should deflect it or Pull cause the saber to fall to the ground.

[Xzzy]

> Someone's gotta do it, and I certainly don't have

> the time to... =)

 

Course after all this pontificating, the problem becomes trying to get Raven to listen and react.

[Bluezman]

I've never severed a duel....

How do you do it?

I hope this wasn't ironic or anything and I make a fool out of myself now but anyways...

 

To severe a duel, simply run away. The farther you run the weaker that white glow around you becomes and at some point finally the duel is severed.

 

Oh, you can also jump into an abyss, that also brings up the "The duel has been severed"-message

[Moradivh]

Originally posted by Galakgorr

 

All that saber throw crap would easily be fixed by putting in a longer delay between uses, or increasing the amount of force power necessary to throw it. I'd rather see a delay, just cause powers in 1.3 use so much of your pool as it is. Maybe if the delay were significantly longer, the damage could be upped a bit as well, making it a sneaky, formidable attack, but not a spammable one.

You're right that saber throws happen real fast -- 1 throw per second is possible at close range, and you can chain up to 5 throws for 30 damage each (150 total) before your force dries up! It's incredible how little energy the throw requires -- all you need is 3 ticks on your force pool, so even a totally drained player can saber throw every 4 seconds.

 

A bigger casting delay wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it'd solve anything. For the most part, only idiots do multiple saber throws in rapid succession -- more than a single throw is usually blocked, unless your target is stupid enough to leave a 5-second opening in his defense.

 

Problem is, even if there was a casting delay of about 5-10 seconds, a good player could still snipe his opponent almost every time he tries to do something interesting, like a special move. So there'd still be about 3-10 saber throws every game.

 

See, if throwing was a risky, costly maneuver, I wouldn't mind being killed by someone who throws rapdily. If I somehow manage to leave a 3-second opening in my defense then I deserve to die! It would be cool! But as it stands now, there's no risk, no skill involved in throwing because it costs so little energy. Throws are a dime a dozen, and it cheapens their coolness factor.

 

 

Originally posted by Ono-Sendai

 

I'm just going to thank Artifex for sticking up for all those who actually know how to play the game and don't want to see it 'newbified'. I don't agree with everything he proposes, but his heart is definately in the right place.

Heheheh... I second that. Cheers.

[Xzzy]

> See, if throwing was a risky, costly maneuver,

 

It would be much, much cooler if saber throws could be interrupted like they can in the single player game.

 

Someone throws their saber, you force push them (or pull, or grip, or hit with an attack), they lose control and suddenly they're defenseless until they run to wherever their saber dropped and pick it back up.

 

The benefits are obvious; throwing has a beneficial counter, throwing has a risk, the game is teeny bit more realistic, and it becomes self limiting because there's very few people who are going to willingly risk their most powerful weapon.

 

Manipulating objects with the force requires concentration, witness any of the movies to see that. The only type of force manipulation that seems to require little thought is a simple pick up and throw.

[knyte]

First off Id like to say that I do find Artifex's site to be a good resource for JK2 information. I have respect for the time he takes to put up the information, and the time he takes to maintain the site itself. I have enjoyed playing JK2 and from the day it came out and more or less know that it will be up for game of the year for 2002, and since I bought it I have had nothing but enjoyment from the game. My point here however is that JK2 is just that, a game, its never going to be anything else, theres never going to be an Olympic league for Jedi Knight 2, theres never going to be an All-Star World Reknown Team of Saberists, its always going to be a game built for play and recreation. I think you all take it just a little too seriously, building an honor code for a video game is a little over the top guys and demanding that the producers of the game change it to fit your PERSONAL preferences is a little too much over the top. If you want to completely change the way JK2 works then by all means grab the PROVIDED game tools and mod the hell out of it. Rearrange every single aspect of the game and then play til your eyes dry out and your fingers are nothing but bone and fingernails, thats why the producers released the tools, so those very PERSONAL PREFERENCE changes could be made. Basically what Im getting at, is that you should just enjoy the game for what it is, stop analyzing, reading into, imagining that it could be something more to your liking, its never going to be, its designed to offer fun and playability to various player skill levels and styles. You build a game around the premise that the only people who deserve/should play are the ones who are "l337" as you say and guess what, no one will play it. So chill out, relax, drink less Coke and get more sleep, everything will be fine.

[Xzzy]

> a game, its never going to be anything else,

> theres never going to be an Olympic league for

> Jedi Knight 2, [...] its always going to be a game

> built for play and recreation.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe people like to talk about this stuff because designing games is fun?

 

Past that, when people pick a game to play, it's reasonable for them to expect a tidy and consistent rule set that forbids undefensible tactics.

 

This is why chess remains popular, why Go has lasted so long, why people continue to play checkers, play baseball, basketball, and so on.

 

When the ruleset is broken, you can be guaranteed that a few players will want to try and fix it.

[Moradivh]

Oringally posted by Xzzy

 

Someone throws their saber, you force push them (or pull, or grip, or hit with an attack), they lose control and suddenly they're defenseless until they run to wherever their saber dropped and pick it back up.

Hmm... yeah, you're right. That might solve the problem, and it's MUCH cooler than my simple energy nerf. Also, it probably wouldn't be that hard to implement, since it's similar to the formula in singleplayer.

 

However, it might be marginally more difficult to program than just upping the energy consumption of throws. And if drops occured even HALF as often as saber throws do right now, it might get pretty annoying. Again and again, the fight would degenerate into one player searching frantically for his saber while the other player chased him. It'd be funny as hell the first few times, but if it happens too often... well, it'd slow the gameplay to a halt. And there could be other problems I can't think of yet.

 

Still, it's an idea worth considering... it'd certainly scare those saber-throw spammers. And it doesn't sound hard for Raven to patch in. Might be a good addition, not too annoying... hmm...

[knyte]

Undefensible tactics? Broken rule set? What are you talking about? I cant think of one thing in JK2 that is classified as "undefendable" if you have any notable amount reflex and brain power. If there was an undefendable move in JK2 they would remove it, thats why 1.03 was released, to balance out some of those possible issues. Guess what guys, the people making JK2 DO know what theyre doing, they actually make alot more than you do to make these games, they probably dont need much help. All Im saying is that you shouldnt harass people making video games because you think they should be designed around YOU, not the other 100,000 people who may be happy playing it the way it is. My mother has a term for that, its called being selfish.