Special Move BS has taken over saber fighting

[HSChronic]

Ok the special moves werent all that used in 1.02 except the death from above one. Now in 1.03 that is all that is used, and has taken saber fighting from an elegant form of combat to seeing who can push the person over the fastest and then scewer them with the 180-stab. Now special moves are cool and all but uhhh how about blocking them, Oh wait you can't.

 

Raven either take out this 1-hit one kill BS or make special moves blockable. I can't stand getting on a server and fighting someone then someone comes along in the middle of the group and does the 180-stab and kills 4 people. It has just gotten to be a joke now trying to fight anyone with a light saber because all they have to do is turn around and hit back and attack, and you are dead. I used to play this game for hours on end in 1.02 and not get sick of it, now in 1.03 i can't stay on a server for more than 10 minutes without getting sick of people using the same cheap moves all the time. People hardly fight with lightsabers anymore they just do 1-hit 1 kill moves and move on to the next person to do the same BS cheap move.

 

I have programmed mods before and balance is not an easy task but hell this game is so out of whack now it is stupid. I think I am going to uninstall this game until a better solution is made for these cheap moves.

[Bill_st]

Amen to that.. I meant to post a thread about this, but seeing how many threads are on this subject I guess this is a common issue.

 

I also used to play endless hours 1.02 without getting tired, and I relied 50% on the saber and 50% on force powers.. never even touched the guns. But 1.03 came along and now we have a TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAME. I think there were balance issues in 1.02 but changing almost everything is plain absurd. When there are issues you just "tweak" things, not change them all the way.

 

 

- On 1.02 fighting with lightsabers was mostly about using yellow/red stances, and using all kind of combos with the occasional special move (kick, backstab..) . Now, 95% of the "fights" consist of ppl trying to push/pull each other and backstab while their adversary is down, or zero-skill assfighters running backwards to kill you in 1 move.. Excellent improvement over 1.02. Now, these "backstab duelers" will say that backstabbing requires "skill" as well. That it is an art in itself.. The fact is.. backstabbing makes much more damage than regular swings (what's the matter, jedis can swing the lightsaber better backwards than in front of them?), it hits everything in a wide arc (and even more if you turn as you make the backstab, actually extending the swing to about 270º arc), and on top of all, now that the regular swings are so easily blocked, this one is really hard to block (if you can block it at all). A move that properly balanced should be used only when someone is approching your back and you want him to back off, has in fact turned to be the one and only super-mega-move that true jedis need to kill all their adversaries I think it would make more sense if the backstab was a short and fast backslash that made slightly less than average damage, but didn't have the recovery time that the blue stance one has right now.. just an idea.

 

- On 1.02 , people complained that gunwhores kept killing saberists from a safe distance. Instead of making it easier to push these shots, the "fix" has been making these weapons consume more ammo.. does this make sense?

 

- On 1.02 , there were a few force powers that were so powerful that many ppl abused them. There were moments when so many ppl spammed drain on the rest that it was virtually impossible not to get mad about it: that needed a tweak. Also, force heal was so powerful that many ppl would just hit and run, heal, keep fighting.. run.. heal... ad nauseum.. : that needed a change too. The answer in the patch: making them a shadow of what they were. Now almost nobody uses them anymore. Why bother, they are useless..

 

I could rant over and over, but I don't need to.. the fact that so many ppl keep bringing these issues to this and other forums is enough to make Raven think for a sec what they have done with this patch, and what they should do to correct the damage it has done to this game..

[MTAIRS]

Do you think Raven even tested 1.03? I mean there's something deffitnately wrong and even i (a 14 year old) could catch something like this.

[<>Phant0m<>]

I completely agree, i cant understand why a backstab should be any more damaging than any of the other moves, maybe if they just made it the same damage as a heavy swing hitting once.

 

Ive gone past getting mad about the BS, and im pretty good at killing them now, uve just got 2 learn the range of it and u can pull back and hit em hard in the recovery time.

But still this definatly should be addressed in the next patch, as ive said b4, this BS move should be an surprise attack not a finishing move

[graigsmith]

backstabs are being overused because saber combat takes too long. backstabs are fine.. sabers just need to hurt more.

[graigsmith]

not only that another problem caused by making saber combat take so long is that dark rage in saber mode is practically useless.. the dark jedi can swing till dark rage runs out and never even hit a blocking jedi. and almost never hit a swinging jedi.. the swords connect too much.

[Bill_st]

Yes they need to tweak things somehow to make ALL force powers attractive.. Right now only a third of them are actually any good... others suck major **** like heal, drain (both after 1.03), seeing, mind trick.. Anyone has seen btw people using team heal or team energize? I only saw a guy using team heal on me once!

[iceman9722]

I agree. Backstab moves weren't powered up in 1.03, regular saber moves were powered down. I have to switch to Strong stance to kill a gunner in 1.03! I can run right up to a guy with a stormtrooper blaster in Medium stance and give him two diagonal slashes and not even faze him. The only time I actually attack a gunner with my saber now is if I catch someone sniping with the Disruptor, and even then I use an overhead chop with Strong just to be safe. When you can't even kill defenseless foes there is obviously something wrong. What I do now when someone is assfighting is use the diving slash special move for Medium. They run right into it and sparks fly like crazy, and it blocks the backstab/backslash. I then proceed to cut them in half (for 20 damage, of course, thanks to 1.03). Otherwise I'd just kick them, but I haven't been able to do a forward-facing kick yet. Just sideways. I guess I'm just slow.

[C]-[33S3/\/\@N]

The answer to all of this is quite simple in my estimation.

 

Make saberealisticombat useable in MP

 

Before you flame me for such a simplistic solution, think about how the gameplay would change for the better.

 

Backstab would still be a 1 hit kill, but....................... so would MOST other moves, isnt that what lightsabers are really all about?

 

 

Thats my 2 cents worth

Cheers

[C'jais]

I'm really tired of talking about the backstab now...

 

"Backstab is too powerful compared to the rest of the low-damage moves, so every1 uses it."

That is true, but until someone fixes the regular saber damage, backstab is still too powerful.

 

"A game NEEDS a one-hit-kill move."

Not true. The most popular of games have no sure tactic of beating someone, they allow flexibilty. A moot, self-contradicting argument.

 

YES, we all agree that it is wrong, too powerful, badly implemented and so on. Anyone who doesn't agree on this should check out the rest of the threads discussing this.

 

Raven WILL fix it, so don't worry people. Otherwise, people can fix it themselves, through modding.

[Mercen4ry]

I totally agree, backstab is too powerful, and to make it worse, folks these days just spam pull, leisurely position themselves, and use the stab. Worse yet (noticed this earlier) is the old pull-one-hit-move combo can also be used with the yellow finisher, which means just nerfing backstab would not aleviate the problem entirely (sure, it would get rid of no skill backstab and backswing spammers, but as far as pull-one-hit spam is concerned, the lamers would just move to the yellow finisher. )

 

As such, I propose the following:

 

1) Add a wait timer (1 to 3 seconds is good) between a force power like push, pull, and possibly grip and performing the higher damage moves. That way, spammers would actually have to use "skill" to get a frag using the said moves.

2) Nerf, at the very least, the backswing. Since backstab is a little harder to connect and cannot give "multi-kills" in general, I would say putting this down to the 70dmg level would be about right. However, I would say the backswing should do around 30-45 dmg per target. That way, it's still useable not unlike lunge, and may give a kill or two without spam.

3) Make the overhead hack more powerful (at least, back to its original level), and drop the damage on the yellow finisher slightly. Since both moves are very hard to connect in an extended saber duel or melee (the former is much harder than the latter), my belief is these moves should be stressed for the power, not backstab.

 

Now, moving on to general JK2 outside saber duels, I would like to address the following:

1) Nerf the damage of the Tenloss. Slightly. Ok, don't kill me for this, as I am (and will always admit to being) a sniper at heart. However, 2 shots to one kill, no matter where you hit, is just a little easy IMHO, and in general it pisses folks off when I do it to them. OR the devs could add headshot/area detection for the Tenloss, pushing skill a tad more. Dunno, just a thought in this area, not too worried about it.

2) If the larger weapon alt-fire is going to cost more ammunition, at least make the repeater cost less than the Golan Arms. Since both do excellent damage but lack in sheer equivalence of firepower, I would say a cost of 25 for the golan alt is fair, and 15 or so for the repeater. Another IMHO, of course.

3) Balance the two sides a tad more. Ever since 1.03, most dark jedi have turned to the light (myself included ) due to the nerfing of grip (hey, I can't move so fast anymore. ), drain, and so forth (DFA, anyone?).

 

That's just my humble opinion. As for the saber fighting in general under 1.03, I say keep it; I just played a small saber-only, no backstab (or force powers beyond passives) tourney, and had a blast. And if folks get mad at the excessive blocking, there was a variable posted the other day to set it back to 1.02 settings. End of story.

 

Merc out

[Bill_st]

Agreed, there aren't too many things that need to be done to fix the gameplay issues introduced by 1.03 . If we get rid completely of 1-hit combo spammers (no matter what finishing move they use, be it DFA, backstab or yellow finisher), and force people to use a variety of moves, saber fights should be a blast. Right now, they aren't

 

And about force powers I'd say reverting the situation to at least half way between 1.02 and 1.03 should be about enough, especially unnerfing drain a bit so that it could again be a counter for absorb. The prove that force powers get balanced in a future patch would be that roughly 50% of the people chose dark side again.. right now less than 20% of the people are darkies I think (like me, I am still with the true power of the force )

 

Making further changes to gameplay to balance the game could lead many people to believe they are playing a completely different game from what originally was.

[Twilite Zoner]

I used to play saber only servers but the assfighting got old. So I have been playing all weapons servers and to my surprise the assfighting in there has been minimal. I guess with the added danger of guns people have to think more than usual

[{XG} Snape]

sup

 

Absorb should depleat the force powers somewhat quicker and also there heath like darkrage does.

 

Sure the play can get recharged from absorbing pushs, pulls, lighting and Grip.

 

But the use of this force power is just onesided big time. Drain was nothing compaired to this. Or make is so Drain refills force powers also instead just heath.

 

How hard is it to Kill a ASS Pirate with absorb on?

 

Or should make the player with absorb on move slower.. Didn't see Yoda Running around when he used it in the movie.

 

Let see HHHMMMMMmmmm He was standing still and it took him some time to condense the lighting to obsorb it

 

Just a thought

 

{XG} Snape

[Mercen4ry]

Agreed, absorb combined with other powers is too powerful. My solution?

 

-I like the idea of drain countering it. Currently, it has no counter, so this would be appropriate.

-Disallow the use of force speed while absorb is active.

-Cut the time it can be active in half.

 

Well?

[Snake13]

hmm but I find using absorb is the only way to have real saber fights and not just seeing who gets thrown off the cliff

[Mercen4ry]

Yes, so do I, but the thing about this solution is you could just reactivate it, solving your problem. The idea here is to prevent the "speed absorb" cappers that many folks have complained about in CTF games without really destroying the power, and to give dark jedi --something-- to counter the move with, since currently absorb is uncounterable.

 

Dunno though. Since most ppl really don't have problems with this power other than speed 3 coupled with it, most of what I wrote is really more of a pipe dream to bring dark jedi back to the game.

[Sith Menace]

I don't like the back-slash/stab either. It becomes pure luck when more than one person in a game knows the move perfectly on who gets the push/pull first followed by the lamer move after.

 

I don't use the move unless I come across an ass fighter or some noob who abuses it in every single fight, thats when I step in and put the noob in his place.

 

Someone mentioned putting saberrealisticcombat (a sp cheat) into mp. I think this is an excellent idea, however ONLY for effect NOT for actuall kill use. This would be a cool added feature of you could take a head off, slice someone in half or take arm(s) or leg(s) off.

 

What I mean is if someone has 5 health for example and ANY contact with the lightsaber is going to kill them anyway, that the final strike can take off limbs. The limb(s) that come off would depend on the type of saber strike used. Basically a finishing move like a fatality. They don't even have to use blood, just make it like the sp game.

 

I think this is a more realistic approach to not only the star wars universe as we have all seen limbs come off in the movies (episode 4 - Obi-Wan takes a bar flys arm off) (Episode 5 - Vader takes Lukes hand off) (Episode 6- Luke takes Vaders hand off) (episode I- Obi-Wan cuts Maul in half) (Episode II) Anakin loses an arm) Basically EVERY star wars movie made to date someone loses a limb to a lightsaber strike.

 

So why shouldnt the game be more true to the movies in this way? Also, if a laser were to cut you in real life, you would lose a limb very easily. As I said, "Just a finishing move" Great idea and I hope Raven makes this in the next patch.

 

If they can totally change things from 1.0.2 to 1.0.3, I'm sure they could easily add something this cool in addition to fixes for 1.0.4.

[Snake13]

yess the abosrd speed cappers are annoying, but considering all abosrb is is a counter attack I don't think you need a counter-counter attack. Making it so you can't speed and force at the same time would solve the capping problem

[Homosexual Ewok]

I'm sorry but in v1.02, I actually avoided saber swings my opponent made because I knew all it took was one good shot and I was toast. This was fun, fast paced and exciting because not only did I have to concentrate on getting my hits in, but I also had to use defensive/evasive tactics due to the lethal nature of the saber.

 

v1.03?

After 2 to 3 minutes of running around playing "sparky saber auto-block combat" with my opponent, I put my saber away and kick him to death...in about 1/4 of the time.

 

I use the back sweep/stab for the sole reason that "normal" saber combat has become much like a game of two people battling with flashlights.

[Dunedain]

HSChronic is exactly right. This overpowered unblockable special move stuff has to go.

 

These completely unbalanced backstab and backspin moves *must* be fixed.

These moves have turned saber duels into jokes. They result in cheap

and totally unrealistic duels where people deliberately turn their

backs on other players and run at them just so they can get

cheap easy kills.

 

Turning your back in a duel should get you killed, not give you easy kills

against skillful opponents you can't beat in any kind of fair fight.

 

One part of the solution to these "backwards" moves

would be to make saber on hits on players' backs more deadly.

If you get hit cleanly on the back you take massive damage (as

would really happen in a duel), that would greatly discourage

turning your back on an opponent, because it would get you killed

very quickly.

 

Lightsaber duels used to be a lot more about skill, now it's just

lamers that spam their girly scripts and use spin and backstab

all day.

 

Raven HELP US, please. Give us back our saber duels where skill

is what decided the match, not how many times you can do

the same cheap moves over and over and over...

 

cjais:

 

You mentioned that Raven will definitely fix these backstab

and backspin moves.

 

But in the recent interview that was posted, they said they

didn't have any comment on further patches for JKII.

 

Why on Earth would they not confirm they are at least working

on the patch? Sounds strange to me.