techsurfer Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 What do you think is up with Qui-Gon Jinn? There is certainly something about him that will be uncovered in episode 3! Lets look at the facts so far: 1. Qui-Gon Jinn was the padawan of former jedi turned sith apprentice Count Dooku/Darth Tyrannus 2. He was a rebellious jedi who was powerful enough to be on the council but seemed to defy their orders at times. "Qui-Gon's defiance I sense in you"-Yoda 3. Dooku thought that Qui-Gon would have joined with him in the Sith and he said Obi-Wan was too sure that Qui-Gon was truly on the light-side! 4. We hear Qui-Gon's voice in Yoda's meditation shouting "No Anakin, No" when Anakin has slaughtered the Tusken Raider tribe! 5. Qui-Gon did not disappear when he died 6. Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's tutor and Obi-Wan is now a very powerful and respected Jedi Knight - according to Anakin he equals Mace Windu in combat and is nearly as wise as Master Yoda. Qui-Gon said himself that he sensed Obi-Wan was a wiser man than himself! 7. He plays games of chance and takes risks that the council would not approve - maybe somehow this is rubbing off on Anakin! So to conclude there is something up with Qui-Gon that we don't quite know yet! I'm pretty sure he will be in episode 3 as a ghost but will this be to try and push Anakin back on the Light Path or to encourage him to be seduced by the dark side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyJAllTheWay Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Nice observations. You're prolly right about his coming back in Episode 3. I wonder why they didn't show him as a ghost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsurfer Posted June 3, 2002 Author Share Posted June 3, 2002 I think he will appear as a ghost in episode 3 because Liam Neeson has not ruled out that he won't be in Episode 3. So I reckon Qui-Gon shall return but what I can't speculate about is his role. Cloudy the future is. Difficult the Dark Side to see is. Wait we must. Prepared we must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungalow Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 One only disappears after they die if they want to be one with the force Maybe Qui Gon Jinn didn't disappear because he wasn't truly a light side Jedi or maybe he just wasn't strong enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Originally posted by techsurfer ...according to Anakin he equals Mace Windu in combat and is nearly as wise as Master Yoda. Qui-Gon said himself that he sensed Obi-Wan was a wiser man than himself! If you watch it again when Anakin says that he's being sarcastic. It's kind of him saying that Obi-Wan is neither of those things and that he is past Obi-Wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-GONE Jinn Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 If you watch it again when Anakin says that he's being sarcastic. It's kind of him saying that Obi-Wan is neither of those things and that he is past Obi-Wan. I think you're wrong. As far as I could see, Anakin really meant the things he said about Obi-Wan. Actually, I think you're way off the mark with your comment...But maybe it's just Hayden's..err..poor acting that makes us have different opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda_alex Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 How can you tell if anakin is being sarcastic. The guy who plays him delivers all his lines in such a monotonous tone they all seem the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 woa now people.......... Qui-Gon was a light side jedi. Why he didnt disappear is beyond me, but remember, Anakin turned to the light side before he died, he didnt vanish, but he WAS a ghost........... And when Dooku said that QUi-Gon would join him, He didnt say anything about being a sith. Remember, Dooku was trying to keep that little scheme that he and palpy had secret, so He wasnt about to go and admit he was a sith. Dooku only left the Jedi Order, not for the dark side, he just wanted to leave. He had to wait till the end of the movie before he revealed that he was a dark jedi. To Obi-wan, Dooku was just a bad guy. Qui-gon was fully a light side jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallacy Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 I can better word what has been said. The two jedi who have been seen to "dissapear" when they die are Obi-wan and Yoda. This happens because they surrender themselves to the force, and become one with it. Take a look at episode 1, as far as i can see Qui Gon didn't seem particularly willing to die, unlike Obi-wan in episode 4 and Yoda in episode 6. Both of these vanished without being attacked, Obi-wan never receives wound from Vaders attack. Also take a look at episode 2, the jedi that die in the battle against the droids did not vanish either. Anakin dies from a combination of being electrocuted by palpatine too much and not having his mask on. Those who die from mortal wounds do not vanish, those who surrender themselves to the force do. ---- For my next point, you seem to make a connection between master and apprentice - Qui Gon may be dark side because Dooku was. But take into consideration that Yoda trained Dooku, does this mean that Yoda would have been on the dark side for Dooku to join the sith? I think not. A link between master and apprentice, there is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X R Kun Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 I can better word what has been said Qui gon didnt disappear because George Lucas is a senile, fat tub of lard who forgots about all the wonders which made the first trilogy an instant classic. Let's just say he forgot all about the disappearance thingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 3. Dooku thought that Qui-Gon would have joined with him in the Sith and he said Obi-Wan was too sure that Qui-Gon was truly on the light-side! Actually Dooku just said he would join his cause. At that point Dooku wants Ob Wan to think he's still on the light side, and frankly he'd say anything to get Obi Wan to join him. If you watch it again when Anakin says that he's being sarcastic. It's kind of him saying that Obi-Wan is neither of those things and that he is past Obi-Wan. He wasn't being sarcastic, he was exagerating--he didn't want Padme to think he didn't respect his master, so he poured on the flattery. lso take a look at episode 2, the jedi that die in the battle against the droids did not vanish either. This is something I take issue with, when I saw the battlefield I thought most of the 'bodies' were downed droids--it's hard to tell. I can better word what has been said Qui gon didnt disappear because George Lucas is a senile, fat tub of lard who forgots about all the wonders which made the first trilogy an instant classic. Let's just say he forgot all about the disappearance thingy Apparently you can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Once question I have, is that why doesn't Owen Lars recognize C3PO in ANH? If we're to believe AOTC, he's been working with Threepio on the background for years (maybe even most of his life, ever since Shmi married old man Lars!). Sure, Threepio is now a GOLD droid, but other than that, and obviously having his memory wiped (they better explain that in Episode 3 and that stuff about Captain Antilles being their "last master") he has the same voice and everything. So either Owen is senile, has a good reason for taking in an old droid but not letting anybody know, or else Threepio's voice is actually common among protocol droids (the only other protocol droids of the same model we've seen were in TPM and that was TC14 who had a female human voice and was silver). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY_jmr1 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 kurgan, you forgot "E CHU TA" the wonder droid:D I am thinking that C3PO is of a very common line of droids. yes anakin built him, but wouldent it make more sence to have built the thing from a kit, or wrecked droid? as to the diffrent voices? maybe its the owners pref, or a brand kinda thing(C3PO=windows TC14=mac) comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GidionTheDead Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 In Episode I, there are no known Jedi who EVER returned as ghosts (although I also enjoyed the EU stories, we should stick to Lucas' own words: "Forget that crap...";well, more or less). After the imbalance of the force became stronger and to connection between the Jedi and force became weaker, some Jedi did linger (like Qui-Gon Jinn). Yoda later discovered a technique to remain behind as an active shade. He taught Anakin and Obi-Wan. That's the story. (Lucas said it somewhere.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryd0r Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Maybe coming back to a ghost is not of the force, but a special resurrection technique made by a special machine that was built by Yoda during his boring decades in the swamp. And he used it on Obi-wan and luke used it on yoda and anakin after they died. But he put too much blue paint in it so it made people turn blue. And the reason yoda "disappeared" was because it was a dramatic moment and they couldn't think of a good dying effect - i mean how should he die? should he just sit there forever? For obi-wan, they probably didn't have enough money or technology to do a cutting in half effect, so they just made him vanish because Lucas was a cheap bastard back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallacy Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 You kicked my dog you bastardgay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookooboid Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 " Take a look at episode 1, as far as i can see Qui Gon didn't seem particularly willing to die, unlike Obi-wan in episode 4 and Yoda in episode 6. Both of these vanished without being attacked, Obi-wan never receives wound from Vaders attack. " It did strike me as odd when Darth Vader checked Obi Wans clothes after he dissappeared but i never really thought about until i heard the above. Were we or i just blind? Did Obi kill himself when he turned his lightsaber up towards his face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russk Rijann Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 or this: Obi-Wan became one with the force in EpsIV because he knew Luke would still need some advice and possibly some tutoring. If he just died then Luke wouldn't of done allot of things. (like found Yoda etc) Qui-Gon didn't become one with the force because even though Obi-Wan might of needed some advice etc there where so many other Jeid around at the time to help Obi-Wan rather than Qui-Gon floating around telling him stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryd0r Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 probably the reason obi-wan became one was that he didn't think he could win the battle. Qui-gon was stupid and thought he could beat Darth Maul and was taken by surprise, with not enough time to become one with the force. Perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Burner Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 actually all the Jedi's in the original saga becomes one with the force even Anakin... its only Darth Vaders shell Luke burns... you can read about it on http://www.starwars.com and in Ep1 there has been examples of Jedi's who has returned as Ghosts... see Exar Kun... he was seduced by the Dark Side after some Sith spirit found him and seduced him with the Dark Side... ofcourse that is in the EU :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril He wasn't being sarcastic, he was exagerating--he didn't want Padme to think he didn't respect his master, so he poured on the flattery. Ok, I can agree with this. Either way he didn't actually mean that Obi-Wan was both those things. Seeing how Anakin did respect Obi-Wan(and felt they were friends and father-son) but he also felt Obi-Wan was holding him back(because of his abilities and a little push from Palpatine) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben15 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Actually, Alec Guiness (sp), hated the charactor and the dialog in the movie. It was his idea that he die and come back as a ghost so that he did not have to be in the sequels for more than a few mins. lucas agreed and obi-wan then sacrificed himself. As for the motivations of the charactor, he did say , if you strike me down I will become more powerfull than before. Also if you read the first Tales anthology, there is a story in which Vader travels to a planet and kills a female jedi (I dont remember the name of the story, look in Tales vol 1.) After she dies, she comes back as a ghost and is powerfull enough to hold back vaders arm with just her hand, she then dissapears. So it seems only the jedi who have completely dedicated their lives to the force, dissapear. Qui-gon, was a gambler and a bit of a rogue, so he did not live his life fully for the force. I guarantee he will not be comming back, then again, lucas has made some major continuity blunders before..remember Qui-gon asking Obi-wan, to do a midichlorian count on Anikan? Then later Obi-wan explains the force to Luke as a mystical energy that flows through all things, that seems to be a completly different idea. Maybe the old fart was just b.s'ing Luke, like he did about his father being dead. Lastly, we did not exactly see Vaders face when he died. Luke put him down. He may well have vanished but we would not have been able to tell as the clothes are left behind and Vaders armor would not crumple, therefore making it very hard to see if what was left of his body was actually still in the suit. The next time we see him is when his body is burning on the pyre, and his helmet is on. Actually the evidence suggests that he did vanish and become a ghost because we see him at Han and Leia's wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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