Darth Windu Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 To be honest, the only thing at the moment that REALLY annoys me is what they did to the Republic Gunship. In my opinion, the Republic should have the Gunship and Jedi Starfighter as their unique units, and just get a different fighter. As for the stats of the Gunship, this is what i think- -fighter armour -hitpoints in between fighter and transport -powerful ground attack (no anti-air) with bonus vs troopers -speed inbetween fighter and bomber -be able to carry 2 infantry units Thoughts? PS: If there are any guys from the game development team reading this, you did a good job, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE change this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 9, 2002 Author Share Posted June 9, 2002 So no-one here has an opinion about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natopo Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Dude, same here. I really was hoping the gunship would be like the one in the moviem with rockets for air and ground and the powerful green pod laser things for supereffective ground attack but no, they just had to make the Gunship a fighter! Maybe they can put it in a patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Blee Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 I certainly think the Gunship could be a lot more interesting. It could be quite simple, too; just give it; Hitpoints - more than a fighter, less than a transport - perhaps 100? No shields An attack - same as a landspeeder vs. air (i.e. weak but functional) and about the same as a Jedi fighter vs. ground - in fact, it would seem more appropriate to have the Gunship fire that blue homing missile thing, since it fires missiles in the film) Same transport capacity as a transport Increased cost - more nova than a bomber, plus carbon/food Think that might work quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natopo Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 My opinion is that it should be about 3/4 as good as an air cruiser with 2 different weapons. Those rockets for air assault, and those green beams for ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Blee Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Wouldn't that be cool? Problem is, the AoK engine, and the AoE one before it, has always shied away from dual-attack units. Ensemble was considering doing this sort of thing with the original AoK - the Samurai unit was to have both a bow and a sword attack - but the idea was dropped. Then again, since something like a fighter has different attack bonuses against ground and air units, the change would surely only be purely cosmetic and not hard to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 Well it appears we think alike about the gunship, hopefully Lucasarts is watching and taking notice. I agree about the gunship having the rockets and no shields, but it should be heavily armoured and have a smaller load than an air transport and only carry troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koenig Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I can't see how they were unable to create it. Mech Destroyers can have troops onboard and they fire, so logicaly it should be possible with Air Units, prehaps it shouldn;t have the missile launchers(or have the Unique ability that they have no Transport Vessels, but both their fighters and bombers can carry 5 troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 This isnt really a good idea b/c gameplay>realism and it would totally make the republic player to strong and overpowering airwise (Stronger than fighters and can hold units i dont think so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Blee Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Sithmaster, that's not entirely true. "Overpowering" is rather a sweeping statement. Transports are already stronger than fighters, considerably stronger. The Gunship's air-to-air attack, as I mentioned, would need to be quite a lot weaker than that of the fighter. It would basically be a less resilient version of the transport, able to hold its own against, say, a single fighter or AA trooper. One thing that does strike me however is that Gunships would need to either have a very low attack vs. workers, or be a T4 unit like the A-wing. Wouldn't want Gunship rushes, would we... that is the only scenario I can see where the Gunship as suggested might throw the game out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 11, 2002 Author Share Posted June 11, 2002 sithmatser - thats not true. As the post above this one stated, the air-to-air ability of the gunship would be very weak. Besides, compared to say the Rebel Advanced fighter, the gunship would be- -more expensive -have a much lower anti-air, but better anti-ground -slower -be able to carry 2 troops -slightly longer to build -have no shields (but a few more hitpoints) -become available in tech 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DashRendar Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu -have no shields (but a few more hitpoints) Well in AotC when Padme falls out Anakin screams "PUT DOWN THE SHEILDS PUT DOWN THE SHEILDS!!!" so if you're going for realism they DID have sheilds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koenig Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 no he doesn't he says "Take us down, Take us down", if it had shields she wouldn't fell out and Windu wouldn't have been able to block shots in the door way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 It would make a good scenerio box unit (if its only for realism or a cool battle for geonosis scenerio it fits perfectly and you dont need to balance it). However if you think that the republic needs an armed transport (not a new fighter art) for any reason be my guest. The A-wing was added to differentiate Rebs supperior air from the Naboo and the Republic. The Air cruiser was added to stop turtles on space maps and chepa unit flooders on land ones. Power droids were added to help fowrad builders and drop off points. Why is the gunship nessassary? Also, the At-St isnt really a mech destroyer, its more like a slower stronger strike mech. So why didn't they make up the art for the Empire's mech destroyer and use the At-St as a unique unit. Because there's no point and they are getting rid of an art that casual players can relate to in favor of something that doesnt exist. And for a casual gamer, the first few minutes of a game decides if its your fav or sits and collects dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 12, 2002 Author Share Posted June 12, 2002 sithmaster - you are comparing chalk and cheese. The point im making is that the Gunship does have the abilities that im asking for. For example, compare the X-wing to the Gunship, there are huge differences, then compare the AT-ST to the AAT, there really arent any differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Of course, if we're going to be sticklers for the movies, then the Confederacy's AA artillery should move faster than any mech or troop... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelapsi Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Darth Windu, you could be onto something... I think it would be a great unique unit! But I think they should make the gunship the unique unit and use the Jedi Starfighter as the fighter... plus, the fighter upgrade could add the hyperdrive ring instead of making up two variants on the gunship. Great idea... just wish the people at LucasArts would listen. Anyway, lemme know what you think about the Jedi Starfighter = fighter idea... and as always... Peace Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 I think they "dumbed down" the Gunship because it would have been overpowered. I still wish they would have made it worth creating in the first place. The fighter is nothing compared to what the Gunship should be capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 The Republic should get ANOTHER unique air unit to make it even more of a rebel replacement... ...And that republic unit should be strong and armored and have some AA and good anti troop and i suppose why not throw in 25 range just so it can be as strong as in the movies... ...And AT-AT's should be invincible to everything but airspeeders... ...And mechs should be able to walk on troopers and crush them instantly... ...And mechs should be able to walk on water... ...And a lot of other overpowering/unbalancing stuff that I haven't bothered to read yet but I am sure is there... Buit seriously, if they made GB exactly like the movie, the Empire would win, hands down, every time, it would build an indestructible death star and destroy all enemies. And GB wouldn't be too fun with only one civ worth playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Blee Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Also, the At-St isnt really a mech destroyer, its more like a slower stronger strike mech. Come now Sithmaster, watch the bit in ROTJ where Chewie's AT-ST shoots the other one, then tell me it isn't really a Mech Destroyer :-) Seriously, you and SimWiz are right - gameplay>"realism", and this is the main reason why it would be unrealistic to expect any change of this sort. I just really like the Gunship... sigh. Tell you what, accepting that no changes in game balance should be made... what about switching the art for the Republic Fighter/Fast Fighter? That wouldn't hurt... I'm always loath to upgrade my fighters, because I don't like the FU Rep. Fighter as much as the cool-looking Fast Gunship Fighter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 simwiz - you're going a little overboard here, but in one point you are more or less correct. In the movies, the AT-AT's could only be taken down by snowspeeders, so what do the game designers do? Make the snowspeeders really powerful against the AT-AT's. The point about the gunship is that i would like it to be a unique unit for its special abilities, plus it is a unique unit in that there is no other unit in the game that would match its abilities (ie. Destroyer droid, probot, snowspeeder...) nelapsi - good idea. What i was thinking was keep the Jedi Starfighter as a unique unit, but give it fighter weapons (same air and ground attack, rate of fire) and keep its other abilities (slightly faster, ability to cloak etc) but keep it so that it is more expensive than fighter's and it takes longer to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelapsi Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Thanks for the props Darth Windu, but I still think it would be perfectly fine as a regular fighter. I think it would be a little too unbalancing to give the GR two unique units. I don't think any other race has two (can't think of one right now, but could be wrong) and the GR is so strong already. Plus the ability to cloak is a little far fetched. It couldn't cloak in the movie (aside from hiding in an asteroid crater) so why can it in the game? Just my opinion, though... Peace Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Just a quick point about the movies; Luke seemed to have no problems taking out an AT-AT all by himself... which probably explains why jedi's are good against Assaults It's a moot point, but Rebels have 2 unique units (speeders and A-wings), Confeds have 4 (3 animals and the genosian warriors), GE technically has two since only their Assaults can attack air. I'd say making another unique unit for the republic might be interesting, but I'd also say they should take away something if they did. If the gunship could carry troops, take away their air transports so they can't fly mechs/artillery. Or if this is too harsh (think not being able to fly mechs/artillery around on an asteroids map), then perhaps limit the carrying space of the transports to 2 or 3 units instead of five. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelapsi Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Sorry, I was brain farting... I was only thinking of Fortress created units... I think thats a little too harsh of a penalty... how about limiting the gunship's abilities... Giving it only anti-ground capability with a strong anti-unit attack but weak against buildings. Something to separate it from the bomber. Speed between a fighter and bomber. Some range, but a sizeable reload time... I don't think its fair to penalize people (like me) who use air transports frequently just because the GR has the gunship. Oh well... Peace Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Either way. I just figured if people were using gunships to send troops (I'd included workers, healers, and jedis in this too) then they wouldn't be using air transports to do so, so why give them the advantage of a troop transport that can attack in addition to the regular transport? Cutting the carrying capacity just serves to offset the fact that the gunships would be carrying units. Limiting the gunship in other ways (like offense) would help too... the sizeable reload time you mentioned would serve well (to this point I'd been thinking they'd attack as fast as the fighters). Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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