nelapsi Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 The reason I was so adverse to the transport limiting idea was because I use them frequently to drop a sizeable portion of my strike force on the opposite side of the enemy base during an assault. This would severely hamper this strategy for me and everyone else who uses a similar plan, and a no mech moving transport would absolutely destroy the main feature of most of my strategies. So, in short, it would be awfully hard on someone like me who has fallen in love with mechs. However, the slow reload time, lack of anti-air attack, lack of shields, and speed disadvantage against fighters would more than compensate for its ground attack and anti-troop bonus. Just a thought... Peace Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Kryllith, the GE has two UU's, the Dark Trooper and the pointless Probot. D'Blee, I agree that the fast fighter looks cooler than the advanced one. Also, the AtSt has a strong attack vs the other one because it has a strong attack period. Look what it did to the Ewoks or the Rebel forces. Darth Windu, AATs are very different. They fit the role of the assault mech because they were slow moving but had very powerful artillery weapons not unlike the ATAT. The MTT was purely for moving droids around. It had minimal weaponry and required AATs to defend it. Also, you have the unit creation system backwards. You're supposed to find a hole in gameplay or in a civ and find something in the Star Wars universe that can fill that gap (or make something up like Lucasarts did quite often :) ). But what your doing is finding a unit in the movie and trying to smash it into gameplay where there is no hole. However, as i said before, it could go into the scenerio box that way you could use it in scenerios and dont need to balance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Yeah, limiting the gunship in other ways would work too. I especially think the lack of shields would be good. Course, I wouldn't cut out mech-moving transports completely in any case (cut down the amount they can carry perhaps, but not get rid of them completely). If there were not space maps which required air transports to move units from one chunk of rock to the next, then it might be feasible to remove them completely, but as it is... Sithmaster: I think probots are generally a pointless unit (that's what scouts are for) but they proved to have some worth to me when I was playing on and island map and discovered they could go over water (guess I should see if they can go over space too...) There's an idea, I should try a TC probot rush on a water (or space if it works) map. Probably not a good idea in a real game since it's better to focus on building workers, but if it works... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 14, 2002 Author Share Posted June 14, 2002 sithmaster - in the movies, the AAT and AT-ST have very little, if any difference. But also look at something here, what other unit in the game has the abilities that the gunship is supposed to have? None, thats why it should be a unique unit. Also, look at the fighters of the races, X-wing, N-1, TIE fighter, droid starfighter, gunship. Pick the odd one out. All of the others onlt carry one (or no) person and can fly in space. The gunship carry's troops, has a 4-clone crew and cant fly in space. Also, as the other unique units, the empire has 2, the confeds have 4, the rebels have two, so why cant the Republic have another one? As for the specs, i would like to see the two repbulic unique units with specs like this- Jedi Starfighter- -normal fighter weapons -slightly faster than adv fighter -keeps unique abilities (ie cloaking) -more expensive than adv fighter -significantly slower build time than adv fighter Gunship- -speed, hitpoints, range between fighter and bomber -strong against troops, workers -moderate against heavies, mechs -weak against buildings, air, ships -available in tech 4 -be expensive!!! -carry two troops (no mechs, heavies etc) -no shields -double build time of transport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Doubt that gungan fliers can fly in space or carry people or are even mechanical/have lasers. Guess that makes them the true "odd one". Maybe the gungans should get a UU for their dinos. Oh, wait, they arent in the movies so they should remain the same. Just because things are portrayed in the movies one way, they shouldnt be in the game that way if there is no glaring reason to have them. MTTs, AT-ST, AATs,gungan mounties, AT-TEs, and dwarf and homing spider droids are portrayed differently in movies than they are in the game and are much different than their counterparts. Maybe they all deserve UUs dedicated to them. If you want a special gunship, ask to add it to the scenerio box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterEd Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Maybe a select amount of civs should have the Gunship, though I can currently think of three (Imperial Assult Transport. Rebel Corellian Corvette. Trade-Federation Landing craft) minus the Republic. Maybe the Republic should have better upgrades for their Gunships. Can a gunship though, shoot down enemy aircraft? I don't have the game still and I'm savin for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_Leader11 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Thats a good idea. Ur right, a few other civs hav gunships, of som kind or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_Leader11 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Still, tho, it would work really nice as a UU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 15, 2002 Author Share Posted June 15, 2002 People, no other civ has gunships, thats why it would be a REPUBLIC UNIQUE UNIT!!! Also, how would the stats i posted for the Jedi fighter and the gunship unbalance the game? I still support this idea and i think it could be successfully put into the game as a standard game unit without causing balance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_Leader11 Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 u hav a point, but it would work best as a UU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 16, 2002 Author Share Posted June 16, 2002 greyleader - ive been asking for it to be a Unique Unit (UU) all along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 What is the point of the gunship, other than to look at and be like the movies? Do you have a burning desire to use an armed transport in a real game? Does it correct any gameplay problems or make the civ that gets it more popular or diversified? Does it strive to balance the game? Does it make the game more fun or add another level of stradegy? Didn't think so All it does is make the all ready popular Republic more desireable, make it too close to the Rebels (something Lucasarts has tried had to avoid), and reduce the need for both fighters and air transports. But, to bypass this, you could add this unit to the scenerio box specifically for the Republic (like the ewoks for the Rebels and the Royal guards for the Empire), and have a armed transport to use to your heart's content without having to throw gameplay out the window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 17, 2002 Author Share Posted June 17, 2002 1. What is the point of the gunship, other than to look at and be like the movies? 2. Do you have a burning desire to use an armed transport in a real game? 3. Does it correct any gameplay problems or make the civ that gets it more popular or diversified? 4. Does it strive to balance the game? 5. Does it make the game more fun or add another level of stradegy? sithmaster, in response to your questions, here are my answer's- 1. The point of the gunship would be to provide an assualt transport ability to the republic, rather than the current transport ability (yes, there is a difference). It would also make the republic more unique. 2. Yes, i do. 3. It would not correct gameplay problems, but would not cause them either if done correctly. I beleive that it would also make the republic more diverse, as for popularity thats up to the fans. 4. No, but as i said it wouldnt unbalance it either. 5. Yes and yes. I beleive that it would add many new strategies for the republic, and make them more fun to play with. It would also force the latering of strategy of players fighting against the republic. "...make it too close to the Rebels" - no it wouldnt. The rebels wouldnt have the gunship, while the republic wouldnt have anything like the A-wing or airspeeder. They would both excel in air, but in very different aspects of it. "...and reduce the need for both fighters and air transports" - again, no. The gunship would only have a very limited anti-air ability (think airspeeder) and would be slower and longe rto build than an advanced fighter. Also, it would only carry two infantry units, so to transport Mechs, Heavy weapons and workers, you would have to use the air transport. Besides, the air transport would still carry 5 units (compared to the gunships 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natopo Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 The Republic Gunship realistically can only carry 10 Clone Troops. The Gunship by no means fits in with the fighters, it serves better as a UU. Sithmaster, why are you opposing the matter anyway? Wouldn't it be nice to have a fleet of Gunships come in and destroy your enemies bases by deploying Clone Troops and using rockets and pod lasers to wipe everything out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi3112 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 I'd say the gunship should be an armed transport (new class) the Rebel armed transport should then be a YT-1300 (upgrade to modified YT-1300 for a falcon like transport) the Empire could get the gunboat (like in TIE-fighter, X-wing alliance, just because it's quite big for a fighter) can't think of any others so far. All can carry 1 maybe 2 troopers (or jedi). Make some differences in this class like and all are shielded (after seperate upgrade), all take long times to build Republic 6 turrets, can target each different units, gives 6 targets so far 2 main blasters on the top, can only target 1 unit together, makes 7 targets, slow rate of fire very slow, still faster than aircruiser very high hitpoints Empire only forward firing blasters ION cannons (always wanted those in the game) same as blasters, can disable a unit with a single shot after that needs to recharge just like Jedi after conversion, goes faster just a bit slower then a fighter very high hitpoints Rebel quad laser turret (upgrade for 2) can target 1 enemy each, quite powerfull, fast rate of fire faster then fighter high hitpoints This would also help to create differences in the civs, anyone else some ideas for the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natopo Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Here's my reccomendation for it: Republic: LAAT (Gunship) High armor and hitpoints Can carry 10 infantry Massively armed (4 pod lasers with independent tracking systems and dual fire rocket launchers for Air-to-Air) 3/4 speed of a fighter. Not very maneuverable. Empire: Imperial Shuttle Medium armor and hitpoints Can carry 10 infantry Armed quite well (4 laser cannons and twin torpedo launchers) Faster than a bomber, yet almost as fast as a fighter. Rebels: Same for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi3112 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Also looks usefull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Please... a gunship that can fire on 2-6 individual targets at a time, move at a speed faster than a bomber, and carry 10 troops? Why not just increase the speed of the air cruiser and make it able to carry troops? I hope you're thinking about upgrading AA along side all this... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelapsi Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Carry 10 infantry? Speed close to a fighter? Able to destroy entire armies in a single volley? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? Jedi3112 and Natopo, no offense, but you are taking a perfectly legitimate idea and blowing it WAY out of proportion. Your suggestion would be to create the all-powerful, unstoppable unit. I'm sorry, but I still think this would be the perfect unique unit for the GR: Hit points between a fighter and a transport NO shields Upgradable to have armor NO anti-air capability Able to carry 2 infantry units (that wouldn't be able to fire/heal/convert while onboard) Speed between bomber and fighter (closer to bomber) Excellent attack versus infantry/good versus mechs Weaker attack against heavy weapons/buildings That is a perfectly reasonable UU. It has strengths that are unavailable to other units (making it unique), but still has a counter to it (AA mobiles, AA destroyers, AA turrets, and fighters). Additionally, the Jedi Starfighter would make a great standard fighter for the GR. It could have a scaled down version for the regular figher, the standard version for the fast figher, and have the hyperdrive ring for the advanced fighter. But I am still game to the idea of having it be a second unique unit. But, as always, just my opinion, you can disagree... Peace Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Originally posted by Natopo Here's my reccomendation for it: Republic: LAAT (Gunship) High armor and hitpoints Can carry 10 infantry Massively armed (4 pod lasers with independent tracking systems and dual fire rocket launchers for Air-to-Air) 3/4 speed of a fighter. Not very maneuverable. Empire: Imperial Shuttle Medium armor and hitpoints Can carry 10 infantry Armed quite well (4 laser cannons and twin torpedo launchers) Faster than a bomber, yet almost as fast as a fighter. Rebels: Same for now. THIS IS COMPLETELY IDIOTIC I GUESS THE EMPIRE SHOULD ALSO GET AN INDESTRUCTIBLE DEATH STAR WOULD THAT UNBALANCE THE GAME ENOUGH FOR YOU??? This is even stupider than any of the examples in my sig, too bad its too long to fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelapsi Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 simwiz2, Kryllity... thank you... Two voices of reason in a sea of idiocy... Peace Out...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelapsi Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Sorry for the misspell Kryllith... Peace Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Darth windu, did you read my quote from Greg Street on your other thread/poll? Doesnt seem like it. If it does help game play and is only added to look like the movies then it is a dumb idea. Period. Ganeplay takes precendence over anything. There are other fighters like the gungan one and the TIE Defender that are nothing like a stereotypical fighter but they aren't UU's. The jedi starfighter is perfect conceptually as it is (Slightly faster attack would be nice). They were never used en masse or offensively like fighters (or gunships for that matter). They were piloted by jedi with force capabilities and only shot missiles. They were mainly used to move the jedi around or for reccionasse (SP?). They would be even less like fighters than gunships (which are by the way used excactly like fighters except for that transport thing). Another thing, you cant add a unit without changing some other unit, and say that it does't help or hinder gameplay. It does either one or the other, and since you said it doesn't help it, this idea must hinder it. Just trying to make this thread think more realistically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Originally posted by nelapsi simwiz2, Kryllity... thank you... Two voices of reason in a sea of idiocy... Peace Out...! Grin, well I don't know about a SEA, but certainly a lake or pond. Most of the discussions early on seem to hit on a decent presentation of how a gunship would work but these later ones... I don't know... sound like someone's too interested in power tripping. Oh, and no worries about the name. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Blee Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I think the most important thing to realise here is that, as Sithmaster has been trying to point out, the Gunship is not going to be changed. If the Republic was considered too weak then perhaps some sort ugrade might be considered as dovetailing nicely with a balance tweak. But it's not. There will, almost certainly, be no change. (I'd still like to see the movie Gunship art for the advanced fighter, but hey.) I realise that this post runs rather contrary to my earlier one suggesting stats for an improved Gunship. I originally thought that a lightly armed transport might be kind of cool - perhaps not necessary per se, but is the Probot really necessary? However, this is escalating wildly now, and it's all getting a bit out of hand. For those postulating the new Gunship as an expensive uberunit - bear in mind that a single Incom X-wing, a dedicated space superiority fighter and much more maneouverable than the Gunship, would normally encounter little difficulty in taking one out with a couple of proton torpedoes, since it could quickly get behind and above the larger craft and this render most of the Gunship's weaponry irrelevant. In this respect, at least, the Gunship's in-game designation as a fighter seems appropriate; in the air, what it would gain over a conventional fighter in terms of weight of fire it would lose in terms of agility and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.