Yes I'm a newbie - but what's with all the crap lightsaber fighting?

[Neon Ultra]

I have heard about this "saber backstab" but I haven't seen it for myself and don't know how to do it.

Thats one of the problems in the MP game - even though I haven't experienced it I can guess from everyones posts thats it's a problem.

After I had completed the SP game (which by the way was REALLY easy - I played the game on normal difficulty but I killed Tavion and Desann in less then 15 seconds without cheats or using any force powers other than force speed - and I didn't collapse the collumn to kill Desann), I played several bots games to get the hang of it. I found it fun - I was a clonetrooper with a purple lightsaber with a fiery effect .

I found the lightsaber duels fun - only when using fast or medium lightsaber style - strong style was a bit unrealistic - even though it was good for killing single enemies I didn't like using it. Usually I killed about 30 or so enemies in a free for all or team match with the difficulty on Jedi Master and lightsaber and force powers only. Looking forward to playing against tougher, human opponents, I entered a server.

Not that unexpectedly, I found the human opponets extremely tougher. Indeed for the first round of dueling I killed no-one. Then someone showed me how to fight effectively, and I started to kill a few opponents per dueling round. Even though it was effective (Can you believe I didn't even know about lightsaber blocking - eg. not attacking - through the whole of the single player game?) I found myself coming off the servers in disgust and going back to the bots.

Why? Because the fighting is crap. I'm sure all of us imagined fighting like in the films, or at least as close to them a game can get; slashing, parrying, dodging. But not lightsaber throwing - except very occasionally. And DEFINITELY not running away constantly, flinging your lightsaber then running away some more. Which seemed to be what most people did. And on the occasional chance of actual fighting, the enemy blocks for most of the time, only attacking when your back is turned - most usually throwing the lightsaber. The common tactic seems to be: wait for the naive enemy to attack, then saber throw him when he's attacking so he won't be able to block effectively, then run away and get ready for another go.

What crap is this? The day has finally come when bots are more fun to play against then humans?

I am disappointed. I realise it is not the developer's faults, unless it is the patch that has caused this style of fighting. It is most probably (correct me if I'm wrong) people who play the games soley to win and don't care about other people's fun factor. These people then force other people to change their style to rack up even a single kill. Before you know it almost everyone except newbies and a few others fight properly.

Fight like Jedis not like bastards.

[buzzblade]

You think that's bad, you should see a server where everyone is trying to point their ass at their opponents so they can get a 1-hit kill with a backthrust/swing. Add to that the jedis who waddle around crouched waiting to do an uppercut for a 1-hit kill. I'm not so bothered about the game balance aspect [i'm bad enough not to be interested in 'winning'], it's just that it looks so stupid!

 

It's actually quite funny to watch though [at first]........

 

Though I largely agree with your post [although throwing is actually a good way of annoying Assfighters and Squatfighters], especially the last paragraph, I think the poll misses the fact that it's not just about skill but also about attitude and style. No doubt it takes some skill to master the above techniques so as to rack up loads online kills, but where's the fun in that? Personally I don't care if people have skill or not, as long as they have the right attitude ie that the game is about having fun not just about winning.

[Mujaffa]

it's boring... you go into battle, using the same style as against the computer and you get slayed.....

[Dark Begger]

lol first of all, neon ultra, go and play some mp, THEN come back and comment on it. DO not just take people's word for it. As for assfighting, it was you people's faults (well..I mean the 1.02 complainers) that created this. they wanted less saber damage, they got it, and now it's so low that someone can come running with their back up close and not die. assfighting is completely the community's fault.

[{XG} Snape]

AssWars

 

Thanks Whinners you got what ya wanted.

 

Totally Agree with that statement

 

 

{XG} Snape

[Prime]

I agree that at this point dueling bots is more fun for me (with Ghoul2 on and sabertrace off). I find it much more entertaining than online FFA (though some duel servers I like). I guess my problem is that I am a Star Wars fan first and foremost, so I find the assfighters and one-move-wonders that much more disappointing. I just picture Darth Vader or Maul running around backwards, and weep.

[buzzblade]

The posts about Ghoul2 suggest that enabling it rebalances the backstab move [not sure exactly how]. If this is true, then once enough servers start using it, Assfighting should hopefully become a thing of the past.

 

I wonder if there is a server setting to rebalance light vs dark Force powers......

[Luc Solar]

Whoa! I can not believe I haven't posted on this thread yet! :eek:

 

Playing against people is mostly as follows:

 

1) They run backwards blindly period

 

2) They whore one single move, even the DFA seems still good enough to whore. This makes fighting them boring.

How many times do you have to slash a guy with his saber buried in the ground before he changes his strategy?

Answer = Forever and he'll still keep spamming it even though you killed him 10k times in the exact same way.

 

3) duels = if saber throw is enabled, you will see a sudden change after hitting your opponent the first time. He'll stand still, back up if you approach and throw his saber every time you take a swing (a.k.a "The Tosser").

 

4) backstabbers.

a) in no force games they do a 180 turn every time someone gets close and execute a sweep/stab.

b) in force games all they do is run from player to player pulling and sweeping, pulling and sweeping. If you use absorb, no problem, they'll just blow past you and get the next guy who is unprotected. The fight ends the second they notice you use absorb.

 

I have also noticed that the players who use the beforementioned strategies, are very easily annoyed if you comment on their playing style.

Try saying to a pull & sweep-whore "nice pull and a great, fast sweep, GF!" and you'll get the following answer: "STFU n00b it is in the gameITISINTHEGAME FU its a valid move so STFU whiner!!!11!!"

 

Ecce homo..

[Nim_Cross]

The special backstab/backswing has become an issue. It get's quite annoying when half the people in the server run around ass first trying to get a one hit kill. This take no skill. The person may think that they are the best in the game because they are killing so often, but really, I could hand the game to anyone on the street and they can run around ass first in the middle of a fight. I find it okay when you at least mix it into your moves. What I do is that I'll fight and fight then I'll toss in a backstab. The backstab wont be me running backwards, just do a little twist and perform it. I don't think that the specials should be removed but I think that eather the power of the move should be toned down or the power of all hits are bumped up to make give it a less dramatic blow to the health points. I'm sure if something is done about this by Raven, another move like the uppercut and the kick will be whored up by half the JO players. Then the bitching and moaning will begin about that. I just say bring down it's power or boost up the power of all hits.

[Takeoffyouhoser]

What do you expect from multiplayer games though??

 

I just bought quake 3....and all anyone does is run and jump and jump and jump all the time.....so they don't get hit..

 

Worms 2 : all anyone did was use the ninja rope and show off by swinging around and then placing grenades ontop of your worm....BIG FUN THERE ( sarcasm)

 

The above posts pretty much describe my feelings for mp jedi knight... just a ****ty game with this new patch. I enjoyed it when i first started, but after the new patch, to me, it got alot harder to play it!!

Also, most of these people with they're clan names like

{F.A.G.} Phreak or whatnot.... these people probably have nothing else going for them in the self esteem department...so they're all bigshots on the net.... big deal!!! let them do their ballarina twists and let'm rack up the most kills..

 

In conclusion, I did enjoy mp jediknight before the patch...but i'll stick to SP playing and sp level making mostly...

[TheSithLord]

MP in most games now is about the philosophy: Play to Win not Play To Have Fun....i dunno, with people using the first one it starts to get really annoying.....i get REALLY pissed off at a guy/girl sitting in the top dueling spot for an hour 33/0 becuz they know exactly how to stab/sweep to kick ur ass

[The Truthful Liar]

Originally posted by Takeoffyouhoser

What do you expect from multiplayer games though??

 

I just bought quake 3....and all anyone does is run and jump and jump and jump all the time.....so they don't get hit..

 

I find Q3 to be an excellent game and much better than Jk2, in terms of getting patches and fixing bugs that is

 

Heck, I play Q3 more than Jk2 - I only have Jk2 installed because I enjoy learning new ways to map with force and sabers in mind - which really takes maps for Jk2 longer to make since you have to consider force jumps, speed, best places for saber action, etc...

 

But in gameplay issues, I'd say that Q3 beats Jk2 so far...

 

[atinymonkey]

I really can't believe that anyone on this thread trully understands the concepts of the mutiplayer fights. Although there are those who use repetative moves to score cheap kills, this is much the same to how genuine Jedis fight. My pal, Lewis, told me that when he was a Jedi they all just used one set of moves over and over. He told me even Luke used the saber throw to annoy people. He also used force pull on peoples pants, which is really unfair.

I would expect each person on this thread who don't understand the concept of the force in relation to saber fights should meditate and reflect on there goals and desires. Lewis said that inner peace will ensure victory, and that beer helped him to acheve this. I would appreciate any help that anyone could provide me in getting Lewis to his next stage of enlightenment, as to my knowlage he is the only Jedi from earth and needs our support.

Dig deep, anything you can spare , even if its only one can.

[Bill_st]

IMHO, this kind of issues (pull-backstab/backslash whoring) is just a combination of 2 things: letting a backdoor open in the game (in other words, the possibility of doing extremely cheap moves), and the existance of cheap players..

 

The latter is almost inevitable, unless you ban them , the former IS. The more you balance the game, and not let people whore on cheap moves (allowing better counter-moves, not making it so easy to perform, lowering the damage..), the less number of cheap players we'll see. Much more so if you provide an alternative to that ^^ . In CTF games for example, it is almost impossible to kill a FC with the saber unless you do a backslash or a saber toss.. Make it easier to hack someone on the back with a regular swing and you'll see less assfighters very soon.

 

/me crosses his fingers and hopes saber combats are fun once again after another patch..

[Bwana Dik]

Oh for cruing out the name of the sweet baby Jesus's sake!

 

Instead of whining: One hit kill this, lunge that blah blah BLAH!

 

Spend some time LEARNING the game. The very best players (The Darkside guys, UCLA Flux, 16 Shots et al [shout out to me peeeeeeeeeps]) use a balanced blend of attacks. They never use one style for too long. The BS is even easier to defend against than the DFA which was the Whine of the century. And the lunge? Ha. Here's some advice for you: Be a boxer. NEVER NEVER NEVER move straight forward or backwards. Lateral movement at ALL TIMES. And use all the styles.

 

Any part of the game that exists is a fair move. Quit bitching and learn the defenses!

 

Cazart!

[Mercen4ry]

Ok now, I promised myself I would quit bitching about BS and whatnot in public, but this thread has gone on for too long and I will do my best to address it without the above.

 

First off, I dispatch BSers on my favorite server as a matter of course, typically by showing them exactly how cheap their move is or serving them a little Disruptor bolt (gun server) while they're preying on an innocent player, typically killing (s)he and/or their victim in one fell swoop before the backstabber could get another free kill.

 

However, you seem to be missing the point here Bwana. Certainly, folks can just shut their pie holes and go on playing like usual. Sure, we could all just try and cope with backstabbers as a matter of course, and in some cases, become them. What these people are trying to say is: We shouldn't have to.

 

That said, let me work with a few non-Quake 3 (seen too many of these) analogies. For instance, let's look at one of the most popular MMORPGs out there - DAoC. Every so often, an exploit or problem creeps up on the game, while the Dev team intends a patch to be helpful the plan backfires, or people will exploit a bug like no tomorrow. Like the screenshot - keep door bug. Like old nuker damage problems. And what do the DAoC folks do about it? No, they don't force players to just, "Deal with it. Thank you for playing DAoC, have a nice day." They patch it, and rely on player feedback to tell them if their work was a success.

 

Or look at Counter-Strike. Folks have gotten away with aim-bots, invisible skins, and the whole nine-yards for as long as the game was (and still is) popular. But do folks just stuff it and continue playing like the game is going out of style should said player come on? No, they leave.

 

Now then, I'm not implying that JK2, being a game with free multiplayer online times, should be as readily patched as DAoC (at $15 or so a month) or that everyone should just leave. I'm saying look at the gaming precedent up to JK2. Players do not, should not, and will not just put up with an exploit or "legit move" that should not be as powerful as it is, which is why so many whine about it (including myself, on many occasions ), and it's our right to do so, even if it doesn't get the job done.

 

But enough preaching. Just whining about it to the seemingly-deaf ears of Raven will not cut it these days; if Raven were planning to release 1.04, they would have done it a long time ago, probably due to the release of the SDK (I still hope they will, though ). There is to my knowledge, however, a setting and a mod that seem to remove many of the exploits of 1.03, and even return some of the fun back to sabering - GSD (Ghoul 2 enabled, sabertracesaberfirst 0, and cg_dismember 300) coupled with the 1.03++ mod. Need proof? Try this server:

 

Rage and Honor (GSD)

Simply Type "/connect 65.113.116.20:28072" in the console, or find the server using the all-seeing eye.

Also view this thread for important server information pertaining to settings and custom maps:

http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64272&pagenumber=1

 

That said, it is my hope that folks will try out this solution, and even if they end up not liking it, they at least know that they tried; it's better than just sitting on your hands and bitching all over this board (venting is fine, IMO, but it won't get the job done ). Hopefully in the future we will see less of these: and instead see more of these:

 

Merc out.

[Bwana Dik]

None of what you said addresses the 2 most basic concepts in my thread:

 

1. This is not a cheat

 

2. The back stab is ridiculously easy to defend against

 

Learn it! Don't try to dazzle me with your "precedents." Play the game, learn the defense and you shall, I promise, crave the day that all people stop whining about a required (yes, required) part of the game.

 

Gotta give you credit, Merc. Very well written.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I would BS you for old times sake!

 

just play, yo.

[Mercen4ry]

Well thanks. It was kinda implied in my post, but let me outright address those two for clarification:

 

1. That statement is subjective. Literally, yes it is not a cheat. However, it is horribly unbalanced IMO, and that's why Backstab / Backsweep are out of line here.

 

2. I have to say no here. While it is remarkably easy to kill the backstabber with a *BFG* (insert your own favorite here) or a backstab of your own (and if you use absorb), should you be caught off guard and the said person gets off a backstab in your face with or without your saber drawn, your chances for a block are almost nill. Besides, I'm a stat hound. I don't like getting killed by said method any more than I like mister backstabber with a 10:1 kill to death ratio. Mark me though, I still have fun and play for the sake of fun, so please don't mark me as "@$$hole" with a big fat "L" on my forehead.

 

Oh, and for the sake of "play the game," I think I'll tack on my sig this time. (hope it works)

[Mercen4ry]

Ok, for some reason this forum won't recognize the URL as a link. While I try to figure out vbCode all over again, here's the link:

 

http://www.sneakybuffalo.com/jkii/statstest/playerpage.php?player=['o']Mercen4ry

[Calexus]

Im don't complain about the backstab since i know how to counter it:D BUT it gets boring when 2-3 people are running at you with their arses

 

[NightFallMyriad]

I used to play online. That was pre 1.03.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the patch... just not what it's done for multiplayer.

 

These days I get much more of a kick going for what I call "epic" battles.

 

Basically, I square it off against a bot in a historic setting and try to have a lightsaber battle that looks really cool. It's actually quite fun.

 

You win some, you die some, but if Luke manages to kill you with the medium flip move, you cheer anyway.

 

Dueling Jango Fett at Kamino is fun.

Dueling Vader on the Death Star is another example.

Hell, even dueling a reborn in the bespin exhaust shafts.

 

 

Bots are cheap. They aren't script kiddies and they don't spam moves. There's none of this backstab BS, you don't get DFA'ed and there's no flame wars.

 

I just wish someone would implement a little bit more AI, and add a mod or something where only neutral force powers are allowed. I find that lightning, grip, absorb, mind trick, rage, drain, heal and especially saberthrow take away from the game. Push and pull are fun, but only if it's defensive or as a cool finishing move with the backstab.

 

Mostly I want the duel setting with kick the way it used to be. No double-tapping, just quick and easy. Maybe it should be double tapping for walls, but not players. Then again, side kick is just as effective.

 

Pure saber skills with jump and some bots running around is all you need. Period.

 

Humans suck. That applies to real life too. I know plenty of humans and I don't really care for too many of them. They just get in the way and I don't have time for their shananigans. Why should I put up with it online? After all, I are one, and I sometimes wish I weren't.

 

I think I've lost track of my point somewhere in there...

 

Oh yes, mp is sucking because it's human nature to ruin things through greed and thirst for power. Fight bots. It's much more fun.

[Nihioteanka]

People who defend the pull/backslash obviously use it. They don't want to see it go. These people arent here to PLAY the game. They are here to get high scores and rub it in your face. Most backslashers would be up a creek if the game was more balanced. When the tell you that it is easy to defend against, it is usually a ploy to get you to accept the current patch. Dont fall for it. Easy to defend against or not, it is a big tip of the balance in the lamers favor. lamers need this patch to get big scores and feel better about themselves. And what the hell is up with RAVEN?? Where the hell are they in all this? If I ran my biz the way they are running theres I would be in dire straights. I have un-installed JK2 from one of the 3 machines at my house. The rest will follow soon. Its just sad to me that I payed $45 for a game that was killed by all of us.

 

Good games like this one will continue to be killed by those who are willing to exploit its flaws to get ahead. Its an even bigger slap in our faces when they testify that its "not cheating" or "its in the game,learn it." To me thats just a cop out.

 

Shame on Raven for not getting on top of this. Shame on the lamers for killing this game.

 

Look at the attendance. You can see less and less people are playing now. Hell, whenever I post on this forum it lasts (by lasts I mean on the first page to been seen) for days noy as opposed to hours like before. Interest has dropped off for this game. As a consumer I will think twice before buying another game, seriously.

[Mercen4ry]

It may be a little premature to announce this (since QS just "fixed" it), but I think we've found the answer to no-skill dueling and assfigthers in this mod. While I posted JK2 ++ along with GSD, shutting down Ghoul 2 had an unexpected result - It made normal fighting feasable and fun again.

 

That said, I just went through 15+ duels (and won about 12 of them) on the Rage and Honor server, and not only were there about 3 special moves performed between all of them (JK2++ nerfs backstab/sweep anyway, so not just those. One lunge, one medium finisher, and one backstab if I remember, and that was by accident ), but all of them ended in under a minute. Wow.

 

Sound too good to be true? If settings stay as they are now, it isn't. Come join us, and relish in the death of assfighters.

 

65.113.116.20:28072