Wtf!? Kicking During Crouching!

[dolny]

Hey, i was just playing at my server (force disabled/saber only) and a guy made a DFA - he misses and i wanted to hit him and suddenly (he was crouching) i flew away (like after the kick). It happened every time he made a DFA and i wanted to attack him. The server runs on 1.03 patch.

 

He was just crouching after the DFA and doing nothing, but he kicked me somehow (-20hp) He said that he will never tell me how to do this... dammit... wtf?

 

[Yoda_623]

Hmmmm.....interesting tell me if you get it out of him sounds like a neat trick to learn.

[SeraphimII]

Sounds like a cheat. You can't kick in force disabled servers, you need jump lvl 2 and no force servers only have jump lvl 1...

[Homosexual Ewok]

It's not a cheat; repeat it's not a cheat.

 

While in crouch, or any other animation that causes you to "delay or pause" you can simply rapidly tap the jump button and press in the direction of your opponent to execute a flip kick off them if they rush in.

 

The DFA trick is the most common one.

 

You do a DFA and aim for the side of your opponent; they think you screwed up and go in for a kill.

 

You simply press the proper strafe key (as in left if they are on your left side) and start tapping jump.

 

As soon as the animation delay is over you will execute a flip kick off the incoming opponent if they are "up against" you.

 

It's actually very easy to do.

 

As for the "Force disabled" part, I have found that about 75% of all "Force disabled" servers have at least saber throw and/or jump enabled even though it says "Force disabled" on the start up screen. I am willing to bet that this was the case. I am not sure about jump, but saber throw is on by default in no Force duel servers in v1.03.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

Hrm.....SeraphimII is right.....odd. Perhaps you missinterpreted the situation...

[SPY_jmr1]

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok

It's not a cheat; repeat it's not a cheat.

 

While in crouch, or any other animation that causes you to "delay or pause" you can simply rapidly tap the jump button and press in the direction of your opponent to execute a flip kick off them if they rush in.

 

The DFA trick is the most common one.

 

You do a DFA and aim for the side of your opponent; they think you screwed up and go in for a kill.

 

You simply press the proper strafe key (as in left if they are on your left side) and start tapping jump.

 

As soon as the animation delay is over you will execute a flip kick off the incoming opponent if they are "up against" you.

 

It's actually very easy to do.

 

alas, its still a NF server... therefore your thery, though it is a good post, dont seem to apply to this problem...

 

sounds like a cheat to me, it the server pure?

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by SPY_jmr1

 

alas, its still a NF server... therefore your thery, though it is a good post, dont seem to apply to this problem...

 

 

If it was his server as he said, have him post his server config, I am willing to bet it was not set up properly and it was not a true "total Force disabled" server. I am just basing that on the way so many "No Force" public servers are not properly set up.

[Kalishnikov]

http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62410

 

"- No force powers except : force jump, saber attack , saber defend "

 

That clears that up, but I don't see why you try to justify it as not being a cheat. While it might not require anything external to use, I would at the very least call it a bug exploit, if not a cheat(given that I doubt the programmers intended for that to be in the game).

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by Kalishnikov

http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62410

 

"- No force powers except : force jump, saber attack , saber defend "

 

That clears that up, but I don't see why you try to justify it as not being a cheat. While it might not require anything external to use, I would at the very least call it a bug exploit, if not a cheat(given that I doubt the programmers intended for that to be in the game).

 

Hehe, I knew I was right about the Force setup (Are there any "true no Force" servers anymore?).

 

As for it being a cheat, you do not kick during the delay, you kick when it ends.

You can swing a saber when it ends, taunt, duck, jump, use Force powers, whatever.

You can do these because the delay period is over; it's a simple "bait your opponent" strategy.

[Kalishnikov]

I assumed from the original poster's message that his opponent was still in the part of the animation where he was crouched, vulnerable, and immobile, and not just crouching for no reason after he was done. If that's not the case, then ignore my last reply.

[dolny]

Originally posted by Kalishnikov

I assumed from the original poster's message that his opponent was still in the part of the animation where he was crouched, vulnerable, and immobile, and not just crouching for no reason after he was done. If that's not the case, then ignore my last reply.

 

That IS the case - he was still crouching while i was kicked! He wasn't kicking - he was still in the part of the animation where he was immobile...

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by dolny

 

That IS the case - he was still crouching while i was kicked! He wasn't kicking - he was still in the part of the animation where he was immobile...

One word.

Latency.

You may have been at a 0 ping on your server but your clients are not.

A lot of times what you see happening is not truly what is going on at that exact moment.

I don't know how many times I (with a ping around 20) have shot at a (150+ ping) guy standing right in front of me only to see him standing 6 feet away a split second later due to latency and packet loss.

[Sutek]

Latency would be my guess as to the reason - especially if one or the other is using a dial-up connection. He would appear to be stuck in the recovery phase of DFA, while his computer was busy sending the latter half of the kick move to the server - or the other way round, your computer not receiving packets at the same rate as he is sending them to the server.

 

Either way, he was being a jerk. I have a few suggestions:

 

Step further away when he DFA's, for preference, circle out and round behind him when he lands - perfect for backsweeping while he can't kick you.

 

Dodge it and wait. Taunt him as he recovers. Heavy sideswing through him as he flies past you to one side (or as he lands next to you - hurts a damn sight more than a kick :> ). This may take some practice.

 

If he automatically flip kicks after a DFA, (say by use of a script, which is a possibility if both your computers were running on good connections, a script executes commands faster than human reflex and you'd be flying away while he completed the flip animation - returning to a crouch, by the time you return to look at him, he's "not moved"). I've lost this one a bit. I'll start again:

 

If he flip kicks automatically wether you are there or not, then if you aren't in range he will simply jump sideways. My preferred tactic here (I have a fast connection, and a good ping is essential) is to switch to heavy, start a sideways sweep and time it to pass through his landing point. Often defences are not up due to the jump and landing. Time it right and it's goodnight Jim-Bob.

[zanex]

Been hanging in the shadows since day 1 and never felt the need to post but this time I really have to give A little FYI,there are plenty of hacked players out there and the BS Latency story Aint cutting it or hiding it..I ran into 30 guys doing the same cheap hacked move and seen eveything from force hacks to 1 hit kill hacks and anti ban hacks ,And also Q3 has the same problems ..Hello this is based on the Q3 engine And there are plenty of exploits out there for that.So what did you think it would not come over here?

We need a system check script that wont allow any modified pk3 file or scripts other than what the host has installed to enter a game .than you will see some real playing going on ,

[leelink]

I would have to say your wrong about the hacks, at least on pure servers. I havent run across anyone that had indefinate force power or any other special ability and I have been playing since the game came out. there are two combos i know of that cant be blocked once the first hit or kick is in place that take off 80 to 200 hps. these are actual combos. on is 5 seperate moves and requires perfect timing.

[zanex]

leelink people like you were claiming the same when Q3 was thought to be hack proof ,that there was not cheats on pure server ,lag ,its a combo move ,ETC .

1 I am aware of and totaly know every special move in JK2

2 not a newbie

3 been here since day 1 like yourself

4 Old vet of the quake scene

 

I first began to notice the 1 hit shot hack ,and it was not a disrupter shot it was from the pea shooter also I should mention 100% health and full shield and no lagg ..

 

second thing I began to notice overpowered force powers with never ending power..so 1 choke hold your dead kinda hack .to make sure it was not lagg or other system related bug I went into spectator mode and watched the loser..and sure enough force meter never went down and the sob had both light and dark force powers ,so he could grip you shock you and absorb and heal than go invisable and throw ya off the bridge

6 other players caught on and we tryed to ban him and we just could not because his name changed automaticlly when votes were cast to boot this @sshat.And he even said he was Hacked up the WaH ZoO and that no one could touch him ..

 

This one is my all time fav the "I float in the air and snipe your @ss hack"seen this 2 times ,I may have been the same jerk Who knows ,

 

And this all Happen on A pure server ,Others may come to add to this ,But my whole point is Its not bullet Proof,To be honest this makes the cheap backstab script look like a skinned knee script.

WE all have to keep our eyes open and report this here or where ever and get it fixed some how.These Hacks may be on the same idea as Game trainers and are memory resident programs and its not modifing the files themselves thats why it getting past the pure server

These events above are very extreme compaired to the very small hacks giveing a slight advantage extra HP and a tad bit more power in the weapons, these guys can blend in very well with the nonhackers but still come out on top in a game

 

I have been around since Quake 1 and Halflife, I have seen it all, every hack out there and have seen this story over and over again .And again history repeats its self once more

[Bluezman]

zanex: I'm buying into your stories as in it is possible to do this (i.e. hack pure servers)

 

To what dolny originally reported I stick with HomoEwok's explanation. If that guy realyy was that sort of hacker he surely would have done other less subtle things than just "go-into-a-kick-after-a-dfa".

 

Simply executing a kick while in a dfa animation so that the kick starts immediately after the dfa is alright in my book and neither a bug nor a cheat.

 

However, the point was that the kick didn't start after the dfa animation but already while the guy was still crouched.

 

And here I think - also as HomoEwok stated - this is due to lag. I also experienced stuff like that like being hit by a light lunge in the face and didn't see it coming because the split second in which the animation was supposed to start got eaten by the server lag.

 

dolny: probably best to stick with the above mentioned tactics to counter this. It is no goog idea to stand within kick reach of a guy performing a dfa anyway...

 

Just my 0.02 €...

[Homosexual Ewok]

Zanex, I'm not going to get into a lag/no lag debate, but what you are saying about hacks is coming from a "players" point of view.

 

When Quake 3 first came out I played it "clean", but after getting sick and tired of watching the hypocrisy of so called "1337" clan members hack and deny it, you could say I "turned to the Dark Side", so to speak...

 

I attempted to learn everything I possibly could about exploiting the Quake 3 engine and was more than happy to distribute bots to the hands of greedy little newbies for no other reason than I wanted to see them ram them right down the throats of the "1337" ones.

 

I moderated at a rather well known game hack site for quite some time and I still regularly communicate with people who have not lost interest in game hacking the way I did.

 

What you are saying about the Quake 3 pure client authentication system is nonsense. There has been one, yes only one, public "pure crack" released for Quake 3 and it was for 1.17.

 

Currently, there is only 1 pure server working hack for Quake 3 and it's a cvar crack that lets you use a r_shownormals wall hack.

Cvar hacks are not hard to do, but you are limited on what you can do with them.

 

That’s it. Sure there are about a dozen auto shooters and aim bots, but they will not load on pure servers.

(I am talking vanilla Quake 3, not mods like Rocket Arena 3 and it's ever so easy to modify cgamex86.dll)

 

"Pure" not only checks for the loading of client side files, it also checks for the correct file size and contents inside of your pak files.

To get around this you have to load the game through a modified executable, and trust me, making one is not as easy as it sounds. id software learned their lesson after they found out about the first public one.

 

Currently the only public hacks for Jedi are a couple of server crash/reroute applications, the XQZ wall hack (that works on every game that runs in opengl, but requires you to modify files in your c:\windows\system directory, and most people can't even get it installed properly) and a couple of script packs.

The no-vote kick thing is more of an exploit; anyone can do it if you know how.

 

That’s it. Granted one would have to assume there are a few silver (as in private) hacks, but by their very nature, they never make it to the public.

 

Flame away if you want, I really don't care. I have my reasons for doing what I did, but trust me you are not playing against hackers, scripters yes, but not hackers.

 

The vast majority of Jedi Outcast players are polite, respectful and just out to have a good time.

While we all strive to win and be the best, the "I have to ownz0r all the n00bz" mentality is only present in a small part of the players I have seen.

The rabid foul-mouthed "1337 speaking" trash that populates most other games has really stayed clear of this game for the most part. Maybe that will change once someone makes a terrorist wearing a ski-mask skin, who knows.