BCanr2d2 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I am as British as an American.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt60 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I was under the impression that Lucas based his Empire , on the colonial British Empire circa 1700. (recall the ruthless conquest of undeveloped countires, followed by 'taxation without representation', and all the good stuff that went along with it) ( Ewok = South African ZULU tribe ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyth'emos Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Well we have more money than any other country and the best econommy, so if we could just wise up and leave the rest of the world alone and use all the money we are giving to other nations to sort out our own problems we would easily become the greastest and most free nation in the world..... and since the empire doesn't just throw money out there to whoever takes it they are that much better than the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_st Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I admit I've had a few good laughs reading this thread.. especially some parts: -The U.S. does have substantial flaws, but it is still the most prosperous, free and benevolent nation this world has ever seen. It is currently the world's greatest beacon of freedom Now, this has to be one of the best quotes I have taken out of a post.. I have lived (shortly) in the U.S., so I can very much speak for the "substancial" flaws that you were talking about.. Prosperous? Yeah, there are many rich people in the U.S. (though if you take a look at some of those "world's richest people" lists out there there are just as many rich people elsewhere.. but what does the - you called it like that - most prosperous country in the world reserve for the people that don't live up to the standards devised by their capitalists leaders? Utmost poverty.. not my idea of prosperity if you ask me. Beacom of freedom? Well.. it is free if you are comparing it to Castro's Cuba, or some other 3rd world dictatorship, but it is far from free as I understand freedom.. I would probably put the U.S. at the level of most european countries in some departments, though slighty below in others (party system, for example). About such "unimportant" issues like the death penalty or judicial system better not talk about it.. Benevolent? Only when America has any interest in that region (either political or economic), then America tends to be very benevolent. Do you consider American policy in the middle east as "benevolent"? Do you really think the U.S. military got involved in several wars/conflicts around the world out of interest?. You can hardly blame them though, because that's been the usual behaviour of every empire/powerful nation for the last millenia since the world is world.. just don't try to make us believe they are the best/most handsome/more free.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 I'll have to read over that article, but I always interpreted the "Empire" as representing ALL of the great empires of the past. The Austria-Hungry and Axis, the British and American, the Romans, Mongols, Alexander, Napolean, etc etc. Basically, when you think about it, you can't have an empire without some persecution, atrocities, crushing of rebellions, etc. It's inherently oppressive in some ways. Many of the so-called Empires weren't imperial in the military sense, but economically and politically they could still be said to "control" other nations, making them less soverign. In any case, I figure it's a big metaphor for government that serves its own ends with whatever means it wants, rather than protecting the common welfare for the good of its people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 America's public schooling system is bent on producing cogs, drones, through peer-pressure and standardized knowledge. They are being prepared for middle management in the corporations, so that they will be unquestioning of the policies of their company which will destroy the world. America has allowed corporations to take over most every aspect of our lives. In the interest of the corporations, we have allowed them to buy up our broadcast stations, flooding us with propaganda. Who can tell what's what anymore? Who can trust what CNN, Fox or any other news station says when their paychecks come from corporations that don't want us to know what they're doing? There're no more Woodwards and Bernsteins working at the papers because the people who pay the publishers don't want that kind of in-depth investigation. America is owned by the South, thanks to the discrepancies in our electoral college. This guy's only writing this article to distract from the fact that Lucas obviously based Newt Gunray and Lott Dodd on Newt Gingrich and Senator Trent Lott. I might sound unpatriotic, but that's what the media wants you to think. Patriotism isn't standing idly by and agreeing with everything put forth by D.C.. Patriotism is clinging firm to the ideals upon which this country was founded! Lucas is putting a very important warning out there. Never give up your freedoms in favor of your safety. Our forefathers fought and died for their freedom. Freedom comes at a price, never ever forget that. When you take the easy way out, let others control your destiny, you lose your freedom. Martial law must NOT come about, no matter what the risk, no matter how charismatic the leader. The Corporations must NOT take over our lives, control every aspect of them! F.D.R. himself said Facism is what happens when Corporations run the state. The Empire--a merger of the Republic under martial law and the Separatist movement under the control of the Corporations--is fascist. And it can happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedragon Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 stupid you are. watch the movies you must. correct your opinion you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Bad stuff the Empire did in the films: - Blew up Alderaan. For a few spie cells? We get the impression that it was destroyed to demonstrate the Death Star's (and hence the Empire's) power to arbitrarily crush resistance. Leia claimed they had "no weapons" which may or may not have been true. Then again, why didn't Alderaan's fleet attack the Deathstar when it trespassed in their sovereign space? Obviously they were not any threat to the Empire. So they killed at least a few billion people and destroyed property to make a point. - Slaughter of Jawas The group of Stormtroopers, looking for the stolen plans for the Deathstar massacred a group of Jawas (I didn't do an exact body-count, but it was at least 20 individuals and their property). They were NOT rebels or sympathizers, just people making a living. Why did the Troopers try to cover it up and make it look like the Sand-people (who seem to be hated and feared by the Tatooine colonists like Luke's family). - Murder of the Lars family The stormtroopers destroy Luke's boyhood home and kill his aunt and uncle. Owen seemed very anti-rebel. He often told Luke not to "get involved" and didn't care one bit for helping out those against the Empire. Note there was no cover-up of their deaths. I guess the Jawas must have some local clout (notice the Hutts control the planet, according to Panaka in TPM, and Jabba has Jawas at his court in ROTJ). Note that the Empire makes no move to wipe out or wrest control of the planet from the Hutts... Other than that, you can chart the other Imperial nastiness to combat policy (Rebel, Ewok battle deaths) and harsh discipline (killing incompetant officers by Vader on various occasions). Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 America is a good idea but it fails in execution. Freedom in America is fake. People are too lazy to care that they have no control of thier lives. Western culture is a dimentia, and eastern (for the most part) is equally as sick. The problem? The world is populated with people. The Empire is an enbodyment of evil, no way out of it, but lucas didnt show it too much, he was spending time on space battles and characters and such, which I think is better. You are supposed to assume the Empire is bad. Whay else would there be a rebellion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 My point in the previous post was to state that the author is wrong when he says that "normal... law abiding" citizens are left alone by the Empire. Again, it's like nuking an entire country to get rid of a tiny pocket of spies, brutal overkill (not to mention genocide). Let me guess, if people commit thoughtcrime they are worthy of death? The jawas are the equivalent of used car salesmen or pawnshop owners, certainly not people who deserve to be killed wholesale. Besides, they were only killed because of their association (unbeknownst to them) to a pair of droids used by the traitorous rebels. Another of the Empire's brutal injustices... Notice that Empire uses "fear" to keep people in line, fear of death! That's called tyranny! Freedom always comes with a price, but the American founding fathers (imperfect as they may have been in terms of their views on slavery of non-whites and women's rights verses men) they felt that being free was more important than living safely. Jabba the Hutt isn't stopped by the Empire either, it's only the Rebels who do the deed and bump him off... Sure somebody like Darth Vader wants "order" but does the end justify the means? The author forgets this point I think... The part about the Force being genetic is suspect as well. After all, the Jedi is a celibate order! Force sensitives are born, true, but they are chosen AT RANDOM from thousands of alien races! And training only brings out their natural abilities, each person has the same opportunities to mature. The Jedi don't choose people who have the force, nature does, and except for Luke and Leia, we don't even know if the Force has been passed on to another generation since they are celibate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyth'emos Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Originally posted by Lime-Light America is a good idea but it fails in execution. Freedom in America is fake. People are too lazy to care that they have no control of thier lives. Western culture is a dimentia, and eastern (for the most part) is equally as sick. The problem? The world is populated with people. The Empire is an enbodyment of evil, no way out of it, but lucas didnt show it too much, he was spending time on space battles and characters and such, which I think is better. You are supposed to assume the Empire is bad. Whay else would there be a rebellion? From what we see in the movies the empire really isn't that bad and there shouldn't be a rebelion. Oh, wait that would seriouslt **** upthe story line now wouldn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Originally posted by QuietSith I would highly suggest you reconsider comparing Americans to terrorists, even remotely. After 9/11 we are a tad sensitive about the subject (we lost a lot of good innocent people) - and it's basically asking for a forum ban. Just an FYI. FFS, as ignorant minded as most americans You werent the only people killed in the WTC there were people from all over the world! and im sorry you cant take someone making this comparison but if u dont like it then dont read this thread! Originally posted by obi-wan13 Our "Al-Queda Hunt" is in response to terrorist attacks caused by jackasses. I Don't think the rebellion used terroristic attacks on the Empire, seeing how the rebellion was more "light-sided" and went after military targets. 1. 'jackasses' is an opinion. im sure vader thought the rebellion were a bunch of 'jackasses' 2. the rebellion destroying the death star was a terrorist attack 3. the rebellion are different because they attack only military targets but this thread is actually about the empire these forums are getting way to political nowadays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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