TheRock Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Well, always remember guys, CD-Keys are a very good way to prevent people from pirating software, not to mention making the CD's copy proof. Not 100% effective, but it will generally stop the average JoeNobody from pirating. I also believe that 0% Piracy will not equal lower pricing. This world WAS about competition for lower prices. It used to be that if one company was in an area, and offered a service for , lets say $40, another company would come in and offer service for $30. The first comapny would be forced to drop thier pricing to be competitive. Now days, it would be the new guy, with the lower pricing, jacking his price up to match or exceed the other guy. Nobody tries to give you a better price anymore. They try and get every penny they can. If they see someones getting away with charging more than they are, they will raise thier price to match. If you dont believe me, check your local ISP pricing. It was dropping drastically....now its going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMNORFIN Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 People download warez versions of games because THEY CAN, you want it stopped then you go to the companies that place the software on the cd's and tell em to tighten up it's security and it's really funny that jk2 didn't even have a cd key requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Gloop Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 A high price for 3dsmax isn't a rip-off, its specialist software designed to be the best in its area, for professionals. Simple really, if you want the functionality, that's what its worth, and its not like you can only use it once. The amount of times Software Engineers like me use it, it's probably working out at £0.50 per loadup. Considering the prices of the products that we can make, the original price of 3dsmax in patheticaly small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefox98 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Video games cost more to make than a blockbuster movie? Example, Waterworld. Not very new movie. over 200 million dollars to make. Jaguar. Best possible one, 100,000 dollars. From Vagabond: Watch yourself icefox98. Your post has been edited for attacking another forum member. You have been officially warned. If you persist in unacceptable behavior, more severe action will be taken against you. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I do dowload warez, but if I like the game, I save up and buy it. If I dont like it, I delete it. No loss to the developer. Demos today are absolute crap, so I use warez as a substitute, as its an actual representation of the game I would get if I bought it, not smoke and mirrors like most demos. As for 3DSMAX, theres no way in hell I can afford 1000 for the software, and another 1500 for a computer to use it, so I have a cracked version of it. And I feel no guit for it either. They make their money on big company liscences anyway, and if I want to be a modeler and be a game developer myself, I cant live off Milkshape or the schools half-assed "education version" that I cant even take home. And Max alone isnt all that powerfull in the first place, without third-party plug ins, so I dont see the justification of the software costing 2 thirds of what my whole damn computer does. I realize warez is wrong, and I know it can only cuase harm, but I dont have a job (not my fault, minimum age is 16 here) so I have to use my money on games I know I will like. Cost of America At War (game): 4 million. Cost of Black Hawk Down: around 200-350 million. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I dunno what 3DSMAX is, but obviously it's high price isn't justified. However, just because you think that, say, a new Corvette costs too much to buy that you should go on a Grand Theft Auto run (in fact, if you wanna steal something, steal the game GTA and then steal the car in that game...much cheaper for getting caught that way). Like you, Lime, I've also gotten the pirated versions of games to test, but if I actually play them, I go buy them...and you're right, demo's SUCK nowadays. There does need to be some sort of justification for this 3DSMAX thing though, I mean, they say it's not useful without any 3rd party plugins (which, by definition of 3rd party [why not 2nd?!], the company did NOT make), yet it still costs $1000...I'm not sure I have a good answer for that other than, do what you feel needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 By the way, if I've offended anyone in anyway (not sure how I would, but I might have), I had absolutely no intention of doing it... Just so you'd know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I'm in the same boat as Lime-Light. And I like the fact that for free I can try a game out to make sure I like it before dropping 50 clams give or take a few bucks, to get a game home play it once and totally feel ripped off( Diablo II ). I've bought every game that I liked after downloading it free. Examples include Max Payne, Ghost Recon, Black & White...Most copies available for download that I've got made me want the original more anyway. Like the version of Max Payne that I downloaded. It didn't have ANY voice in the graphic novel sections, or in the game. I played a couple levels, decided it was a great game, went and bought it. I wish I knew a good place for demo downloading. It would get the same results as the method I use, minus feeling like I'm stealing. Gamespot used to have just about any game you could think of available for download, and they still do. But now they want the greenbacks. I'm not about to pay for a demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by CapNColostomy to get a game home play it once and totally feel ripped off( Diablo II (Warning: Personal Opinion to follow) WHAT?!?!? Diablo II was probably the most fun with a game I've had in a LONG time (with the exception of Black and White, which I bought a week after it came out ), I loved going through the cathedral the first time with my baby necromancer . However, I can see where you wouldn't want it. And you're right, there aren't any good places to get demos anymore (Happypuppy was the best, not sure exactly what happened to them), so to truely test a game, you probably DO need to DL the cracked vers and try it, but if you really like it, you SHOULD go and buy it, but the problem is that most people don't. I had the cracked of B&W before I bought it, but I DID buy it. Then again, there are games that you don't even have to test to know they rock (Dungeon Siege and Morrowind come to mind ). Again, mostly personal opinion, the point is that if you're gunna pirate software and you like it, GO BUY IT. And for the love of macaroni and cheese, please don't help distribute it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefox98 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Black in White was a BORE. Just for the "tutorial" or first world it took like 5 hours...Ugh I hate that game. I'm starting to get fed up with RPGs and such...I think its because I played EverQuest.....oh well maybe some day my love for rpgs and real time strats will be rekindled. Heh Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnforcerSG Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Well, have any of you used Napster, Morphious, Kazza, Hotline, ect? Honestly, I occasionally will give a copy of the game to a friend, just so we can play over a lan or play together online or what not. I trust him not to make 10 copies for friends, and he does not. I agree that with games i dont know about, i would try to get a copy before buying it. If i like it, then i will get it off the shelf ASAP. If not, then thank god i did not waste my money. However, with Jedi Knight, i pre-ordered it knowing it would not be crap. With big programs, such as 3D studio, i say if you are going to publish anything or do anything serious (such as make stuff for games), get a legal copy. However, if you are say a student and you dont want to have to go down to the computer labs to do every project for a class, I dont see the big deal with getting a copy for something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krak3n Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Software Piracy is on the up. More and more people are finding out you can get software that would normally cost $300 for nothing. Are you telling em you would not be tempted? Warez is one of tho's things that will never go away. No matter what copy protection they put on games, they are always cracked. Operation Flash POint is a good example. Said to be crack proof and if you tried to copy it the game would nto function correctly, it was cracked with in a week..... You can moan and nag and tell them they are lamers for 'steeling' software but the truth is....if any of you have used Kazzar or similar programs, recorded your own taps or burned your own CD's then you have also stollen. It's the age old thing, People always want something for nothing, in this casem, you can get everything and anything for nothing. People as a whole will always take advantage. So really, theres no point moaning or nagging, calling then names and so forth cos it won't do a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 uh , what the hell icefox? ... there are a lot of posts after mine, did you just ignore them all just to flame me? ..i read other posts and threads by you..... you like flaming ppl dontcha? and everyone else, why is everyone flaming me because of one thing I said wrong? ... ok, I made a mistake, I admitted it earlier in this thread and corrected myself, ... well i was exaggerating really, but what I meant was that even though it ddin't take a budget of hundreds of millions dollors it still doesn't mean you should just rip off the software, if you like it, let the companies have their money and make some profit off their work ... I usually just d/l a demo, I don't like to sift through warez sites..... they are all ridden with endless pornographic ads and barely any of the sites have actual files on the server... the most i get out of them is a locked up PC ...... if a friend of mine has a game i'm interested in i usually play it or borrow it... i read all the reviews I possibly can.. well with a program like 3ds max 4 ,... yes I agree, if you plan to legally sell a game made with visuals modelled in that program you should have a legal copy well I use cheap counter parts.. i use a very low cost 3d game engine, and free or very cheap modelling tools. like 3d Canvas or milkshape... since I'm not really in it for profit , it's just a hobby of mine... well, I used those peer to peer sharing programs , but a lot of the music i downloaded I already had a legal version (on a record or tape or cd..... yes...a record, ...disco baby ) ... yeah, I can't find my record of "I will survive" so I downloaded an .mp3, and I couldn't find my snes so I downloaded roms of super mario games.. well i found my snes now so I deleted all that wasted memory yes, i think if you do have a copy of something and like it, you should go buy the game... chances are it'll work better anyhow heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Krak3n Software Piracy is on the up. More and more people are finding out you can get software that would normally cost $300 for nothing. Are you telling em you would not be tempted? Warez is one of tho's things that will never go away. No matter what copy protection they put on games, they are always cracked. Operation Flash POint is a good example. Said to be crack proof and if you tried to copy it the game would nto function correctly, it was cracked with in a week..... You can moan and nag and tell them they are lamers for 'steeling' software but the truth is....if any of you have used Kazzar or similar programs, recorded your own taps or burned your own CD's then you have also stollen. It's the age old thing, People always want something for nothing, in this casem, you can get everything and anything for nothing. People as a whole will always take advantage. So really, theres no point moaning or nagging, calling then names and so forth cos it won't do a thing. true, we could moan and nag and they won't stop... course not, the onyl way to stop them is to catch them and, eh, why bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I actually had the warez version before i bought the game and i only used it to see what the game was like. after i played the warez version for about 3 days i was satisfied with the game, so i deleted that version and paid like 50 bucks for the game. I know i could have gotten away with using the warez version, but i'm 19 i work and i understand how hard it is to do things like this. buying something from a company is a way of saying "i appreciate the work you do for me so i'm paying you back for your time and effort and looking forward to anything new that you might make." without our money people like raven cannot continue making games. it seems that our society is degenerating into a worthless squabble. how would you feel if you worked for months even years perfecting something that you loved just to have some worthless bum steal it from you and SELL it himself? in anycase i agree with the concept that you should be able to try things out before you buy them, but after the testing the money should be spent if nothing else to show your appreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhoj Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Krak3n {cut to make it shorter} You can moan and nag and tell them they are lamers for 'steeling' software but the truth is....if any of you have used Kazzar or similar programs, recorded your own taps or burned your own CD's then you have also stollen. Slightly incorrect. If one has bought the album/cd/tape, then burning one's own mix or putting them to tape is LEGAL so long as only the one who bought the cd/album/tape is using either copy. But, I could be wrong about the scope you are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeraphimII Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Blah Blah Blah! Piratings bad m'kay Blah Blah Blah! Lets devote a thread about it that will acompish nothing, but either drive a bunch of people to argue or write too damn much about why their right and everyone else is wrong, m'kay. Blah Blah Blah! /me thinks this thread suxs, m'kay. But in the words of the Human Tourch... FLAME ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterD-LeyAmas Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I am with all of you when you say that warez games should not be used as anything else *except* for *maybe* trying out the game before you buy it. Game designers are more in the "starving artist" category than other designers. I myself do not have any ripped copies of games on my computer. However; one cannot say that Microsoft deserves $300 dollars from me (when I would have to save a portion of a couple of paychecks to afford that) in order for me to have the most up-to-date version of their OS; which they'll update in two years and ask me for another $300 to keep up to date. You just can't ask me to do it. Not when they have already charged THOUSANDS of businesses for hundreds-of-thousands of copies, EACH, of this same software at $300 a pop, and have already made their money back 100 fold. Sorry, I feel no guilt in using Microsoft's programs (or any other programs that are overpriced just for businesses, such as 3dsmax) without paying for them. I think every retail consumer who uses them on home computers should get them for free. It wouldn't hurt Microsoft in the least. I don't tell anyone else how to go about getting them, but I'm certainly not going to work away a month's worth of in-pocket cash in order to keep my computer up to date, just so the CEO of Microsoft can sleep at night (probably on a bed of money); and I don't believe anyone else should either. But, you are right about games. This ended up being a lot longer than I intended. Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastan Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I'm just surprised that LA decided not to use the CD-Key system for online play... it works very well with all the other Quake 3 based games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterD-LeyAmas Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I was suprised by this too. I think LucasArts just figured that it wasn't worth the effort. Which it probably isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipe Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Yeah, the cd key works well until people with keygens screw thousands of people over and support is left to deal with the mess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 CD-Keys will ALWAYS be cracked, since they are all based on an algorithm of some sort. Algorithms being mathematic can be relatively easily reproduced, there has to be another way to protect CD's. Won't get caught in the apparent flame war that has developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterminator234 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Aoshi I actually had the warez version before i bought the game and i only used it to see what the game was like. after i played the warez version for about 3 days i was satisfied with the game, so i deleted that version and paid like 50 bucks for the game. I know i could have gotten away with using the warez version, but i'm 19 i work and i understand how hard it is to do things like this. buying something from a company is a way of saying "i appreciate the work you do for me so i'm paying you back for your time and effort and looking forward to anything new that you might make." without our money people like raven cannot continue making games. it seems that our society is degenerating into a worthless squabble. how would you feel if you worked for months even years perfecting something that you loved just to have some worthless bum steal it from you and SELL it himself? in anycase i agree with the concept that you should be able to try things out before you buy them, but after the testing the money should be spent if nothing else to show your appreciation. thats why theres demos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 i didnt see any demos when i wanted to buy the game a few months ago. maybe you should get your timeframe straight maybe there are demos NOW but there werent demos when the game was first released. maybe companies should release the game and a demo at the same time i think that would be pretty effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreeP_303 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Tonight On Fox: Opinions gone AWRY!!!! see the breakneck speed of morons posting about how there shouldn't be any software piracy in the world. witness shocking discoveries that big ceos of ISP's actually endorese warez!!! pffft...worst thread ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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