MatrixCPA Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I actually got a chance to put u104 as a server-side mod up for a while last night. I wanted to get player reactions and see if the new vms fixed the logging issue. Here's how I see it. The good news is that the new vms did fix the logging issue and my admin bot went back to working the way that it should. The bad news is that I feel the patch created as many problems in gameplay as it fixed. I believe I have found 2 basic types of players populate the server. There are those who play just for fun and aren't particular about the mechanics of the game and there are those who focus completely on what aspect of the combat can be exploited to their greatest advantage. Obviously, these two groups don't get along so well because the fun players see the focus players as "move spammers" and the focus players see the fun players as "n00bs". Given that there has been no official patch for some time and not even a peep about what the future for JK2 will be, I held out on using the u104 patch. I think that because of the length of time that the v1.03a patch has been in place, the bulk of the regulars on my server have adapted themselves to that play style and those who don't like it and have stayed did so for their own reasons. Now, what happens when gameplay is significantly changed via the u104 vms? Well, the vast majority of the regulars leave because they don't like the changes and don't want to adapt. There are a few of the "fun players" who have stuck around that like the patch because they enjoy seeing the "focus players" suffer. However, once all the "focus players" leave, the "fun players" realize that the server is virtually empty and move on as well. Now, I realize there's serveral efforts out there to work on saber combat mods and such. I've considered checking them out, but have decided that I'm not willing to change the server behavior unless I believe that the player community is really moving that direction. It's unfortunate that Raven has moved on to other projects and left the JK2 community in the dirt. Depending on how things go over the next 3 weeks (I'm on vacation from work), I may take down my server in favor of another game. I'm very depressed by the fact that all my effort on the admin bot--which was highly desired by the community--went for naught because of the simple and yet needless changes that Raven made to the logging code. I had a brief moment of hope when the u104 code fixed the problem, but that didn't last long after seeing the player reaction and other problems the patch created. I've been experimenting with the Neverwinter Nights server and I'm looking forward to testing out the America's Army server--if for no other reason, I've always prefered the Unreal engine and server to the Q3 engine and server. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasco Smlee Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Sorry to hear you might take your server down Matrix. It's unfortunate that many players have now adapted to using those exploits in the 1.03 patch. It would be far better if a proper patch was released, then they would most probably adapt, as they did from 1.02-1.03. While there are only a handful of u1.04 servers this will never happen. Personally I much prefer the u1.04mod because it fixes all the gameplay exploits in the game. I regularly play on my server and would rather play against 'fun' players than l33t spammer 'focus' players I have also noticed that I do have a bunch of regulars now that seem to like u1.04, so I am quite happy with it for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 give it some time matrix. i cannot complain about my server. the trick is the micro community around our message board. we have mabe 20-30 players who regularly play on our duel server. as i came with my altered version of the 1.03a source code some of the leet players were happy and the spammers were not. but with time and arguing on the board most of them adapted and stayed on our little island. i would play something else by the moment if raven wouldnt give us the source code. now i managed to ballance the game out. no move is nerfed how it was in 1.03 or in the u1.04 (tho id dont know what this is exactly, i assume just compiled the given source code). backstabbs and sweaps are not useless nor exploits and so on... if u have only the server and no micro community around it, its hard to get this through. our people just realised how lame the other servers were and had to come back home like the lost son! wait until new gametypes come with the mods, i am currently working to get it done but its hard getting coders for my cause, i cant do it all alone. mapping is demanding enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaSyKiLL Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I agree with you Matrixcpa. I tried running the mods and allmy clanmates were pissed because all of thier "practice" (spamming BS) went down the drain. It disgusts me to join my server. 90% of the players spend 50% of the time running bassackwards. 9% of the players spend 100% of thier time trying out scripts. The rest (me included) play a few rounds, then leave. As soon as UT2k3 comes out you will see a lot of people migrate. I know I am. I'm sick of these buggy games full of cheaters and bug exploiters. I went from Red Faction (one of the worst cheaters games) to JK2 (much better but just as frustrating), now I'm hoping UT2K3 will be the cure-all fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivmin Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I must agree with MatrixCPA..that when turning from 1.03a to 1.04, then servers stay empty. Normally I had 40-60 players only every day...but suddently I had 0-5 players online But...I did not go back to 1.03a...I still use 1.04...and guess what ? Now all my 14 servers are all filled up again...in fact I have several clans asking for clan-servers every day. Just give it some time...it will happen. -- /me still waiting for UT2k3-demo to be released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatrixCPA Posted July 4, 2002 Author Share Posted July 4, 2002 You might want to check out America's Army. It uses the UT2 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightHawk420 Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Im going through the same on my server... Damn near everyone in an uproar cuz they can't use they're old air lunges in battle, or any other cheap spam moves. Or they say it's now a red whore fest. I must of been the only one to read the part in the manual where it specifically says red is good for one on one battles... As the majority on my server used blue because they could air lunge and throw... Anyhow I've been playing with mods on my server, and as soon as people lost the game bugs, and cheap ass spam moves all hell broke loose. I dunno maybe you do lose players.... at least on my server I"m only concerned about the guys that will stay and play and really fight, as opposed to long ass duels with a 2 hit combo expert. If I we're you matrix.... I"d run the JK2++ Beta 3 mod... It ups saber damage a bit, and also removes the spams. So for a CTF server it will still keep kills quick, but fix the spam moves. Not sure it will help your server stay busy, but I really like the mod myself, being someone who rely's on basic saber moves, as opposed to picking one special move and spamming it, the JK2++ mod really favors how I play, and leaves the spammers whining and dieing. Just be sure to turn ghoul2 off, if you run the mod duels are finally interesting again on my server. I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I just put up the Vulcanus Mod. I was stupid not think it would include the 1.04 changes, but it does. I got it for the admin stuff and multiple duel capability but am actually glad for the combat changes as well. I Like it. There are a few funky things still, but it squashed all the spam moves and for that I am happy. Granted it's not perfect, but the good outweighs the bad in my opinion. I do play for fun and I have no illusions about being the best saberist so I find the changes very welcome. Now it plays more like I thought it should all along. The moves I use seem to fit better into the new changes. I use regular combos mostly and throw in a special here and there as I think it was always meant to be. Yes, there was an uproar when I rolled it out, but I haven't noticed any significant drop in attendance. I think it's mostly because the learning curve in this version is a LOT faster than the previous changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak_iSuk Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Here's my two copper... I'm sticking with u1.04. My server is small (FF DUAL/six public slots/15 dual_fraglimit/2 fraglimit) and i like it that way. I have my regulars who are there alomst every night as if on schedule and i have new visitors who showup daily too. I can say that my server logs are a testament that most lplayers lke the combat changes in u1.04. If i've done my calculations correctly I've have had over 300 unique IP's connect and stay for at least two matches in the last five days. Most users average about 7-10 matches a day. My math could be off but I feel confident I did it right. (I could never get a stats generator working for my win2k box so I'm making my own monstrosity in VBA. ) My biggest enemy with keeping the players happy is picking the map rotations since i host custom maps exclusively and so few users actually go and DL the maps from here or JOM before joining. The bottom line is this: I feel I am providing a usefull service to a gaming community I care about. When they leave I'll stop. But I do understand how you guys feel! P.s. Let me also add: MATRIX, without you this commity WILL suffer harshly! You're posts here are more responsible for my sever working than, anything else i read, anywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightHawk420 Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Okay I have to change my opinion. As of tonight I decided to run the Vulcanis Adminmod as well permanently. Although I really liked JK2++ many players didn't. go figure... anyhow.. The admin mod uses the changes in u1.04 but also adds multiple duels, and some great admin commands. Dak_iSuk, if I we're you try this instead, same as u1.04 except you as an admin get some new toys. Already I'm tickled to death by the kind of fights I see on the server now. The game still flows well, but no longer is assfighting, lunge/throw, or run real close up and pull down a problem. I agree with the 2nd post above, the game now plays much much closer to what I expected from the beginning. For example when you pull off a special move now, you can really get freakin hurt if you get dumb about it. Now blue stance is more effective against red, making red whoring not so much an issue. But at the same time lunge isn't the only effective blue move against red... The admin mod itself doesn't do anything to the gameplay, but does add some niceties... such as during duels now the sabers don't just go up. now the players have to turn them on. Well anyway my 2 cents yet again. I think I gave yall a nickel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak_iSuk Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 [Off Topic]So where do i get this Vulcanis Adminmod? I searched every JK2 Site i know except jk2files.com because it was down and i cant find anything. [/On Topic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasco Smlee Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 I found it under the 'tools' section of this site. Gonna check it out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak_iSuk Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Thanks! For some reason I thought an adminmod would be in the mods section. I got it now. it's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightHawk420 Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Yup same here never found it, till I stumbled upon it in tools section one night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyplaya73 Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 You should try the DUEL_SE mod. I have tried em all and it is by far the best one out there for the following reasons: 1) customize the amount of damage for kick, saber throw, lightning 2) customize the damage for all saber stances, special moves and back sweeps 3) multiple duels in FFA 4) option to enable invulnerability when your saber is down in FFA 5) backup, back roll is slower 6) push / pull doesn't knock down as much 7) can't spin as much durning a back sweep 8) saber feels stronger overall http://www.nitemares.de/duel_se/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 hmm i am not sure if the rolling back and stuff is caused by my mod. i thought it would be a general issue in the original code. and i dont like this "feature" bcause it is not constant but depends on the ping. e.g. if playing on lan i dont have this laggy backrolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyplaya73 Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 Yes you are right. The back roll thing is part of the 104 code. I play from my home LAN and my back roll is slower just the same as eveyone elses so I'm not sure what you mean? I think it is good and necissary because before people could just backup or back roll and throw at you. Now if they do that there is more risk involved for them. Many people have been asking for slower back movement since the beginning and I was one of them. It balances things out. I think all this stuff is subjective. It depends on what modes of play your server uses and what force powers you allow and how you want the game to be played on your server. The main thing with all of these MODS is that they have to be customizable. No one will ever create a MOD that will be perfect for everyone. Raven tried that with 103 and it failed. That is why I like your mod so much becuse I can now control exacly how the game plays and so far most people on my server are happy with it. Some people are not happy with the 104 changes like no blue lunge in mid-air and the lack of movement in back sweeps. I ballance this out by making the saber stronger overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 yeah these were all bugs. the midair blue special was annoying. so were the backsweeps. they even forgot to implement the damage ramping system for those! but now its in and very welcome too! i hated it when i touched the tip of the saber after a special or a backsweap and died. i am not sure about how good it is that server admins can change damage to their likings. that may change the structure of the community. i think the players will gather in microcommunities around some server or just one alone. it will be a hard time for ladders and stuff like that. atleast for laddersites without their own servers where players can expect fair and known circumstances. if i had some coders at hand i could make this mod far better for tournaments than what we have now. i dont like the duel mode anymore with this waiting. why cant there be more than just one duel at a time? a more complex system would be more enjoyable for all players. thats why i tried to do it with this duelffa cvar and allowing multiple private duels ind ffa games. but that lacks of this duel tournament system and athmospthere. players can do what they want and thats not a good thing... mabe some coders will contact me after i submit my mod to jkii.net. jk2 has a lot of potential and i cant think of playing anything else online for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyplaya73 Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Yes, true. I'm not endorsing any kind of crazy changes like making blue higher damage then yellow. I'm talking more about small adustments. The regulars on my server have had no problem adjusting. The ratio of damange is like how version 102 was. If you wanted to put some controls in there as far as how drastic someone could change things that would be a good things but the ability to make small adjustments is necessary. I found that you default values made heavy too strong compared to the other stances which is not fair for fast and medium users. I think that I have done a good job in ballancing out all of the stances but heavy still rules in the hands of an expert. People have been telling me that they like the way it plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 who knows the future, mabe i will do this too. but i doubt that u have the old 1.02 damages back. dont u remember? heavy made 100, always! and yellow 60! not they do it too but there is a modifier that halfs the damage for jedimasters and stuff... keep that in mind when u callculate those damage values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietSith Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 1.04 is great... I'm using it on my server too - plus I made some other available server changes - see sig (bottom of page). I really hope more servers simply put the mod in their base directory and it let it do its thing. My server gets full all the time because people love the changes. A few hate it because they are used to the backstab/sweep stuff - but no big loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightHawk420 Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 It's funny I see assfighters come in and try to do they're thing, only to get they're heads consistently handed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietSith Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Haha.. yah it's fun to watch - justice at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightHawk420 Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 So funny to hear about this new official patch.... guess my players may get into an official ladder yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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