1.04 CTF now pointless

[|DEM|Mosleg]

Originally posted by Darth_Infamous

This is going to be a rant. I'm pissed. Extremely pissed. This patch is ridiculous. CTF games are now pointless, monotonous, boring, long, drawn out crap! I just finished, well I didn't finish, I quit the game at 35 minutes, because it was tied 1 to 1. I am seriously annoyed at all the nerfing that 1.04 has done. Now the common noob, can go out, purchase the game, update to the patch, and be on the top of the scoring without knowing anything about sabering, styles, etc. It's just horrendous. I want backstab back. None of the saber moves match their descriptions in the manual now.

 

BACKSTAB - It is a difficult move to time, but it is a fairly fast and devestating stab that can't be blocked. (from the manual)

 

Really? Fast? Devestating? Can't be blocked? What a load of crap. It's slow. Nerfed to about 25 pts of damage. And is now blocked often.

 

I know that the pull down/backstab move was being whored, but they fixed that with adjusting how pull works. They did not need to nerf backstab itself. Now there are no one hit kills. DFA sometimes, but not all the time. So games will now take forever. A lightside flag carrier can take a hit, run, and heal with either force heal or bacta. Games are never ending now and depend more upon luck then skill. I hope you anti-backstab crybabies are happy. You've made the game absolutely boring and tedious with practically no way to win based on skill. And those of you that say backstabbing someone took no skill...heh...you were the crybabies in the servers that bitched about being killed by it, but couldn't do it yourselves.

 

And don't even get me started on the jump-lunge move. That was a viable move. Now it's gone. Fine they wanted to get rid of people floating to safety, there are ways to do that without getting rid of the move entirely. They could have made it so you couldn't chain the move continously and that would have solved it, or something with timing it. But no, they just kill it outright. Yet they leave all the little bugs in the maps themselves like on CTF_Yavin with the invisible platforms people can get to. It's just ridiculous. Sorry if I sound like I'm bitching, well, that's because I am. I enjoyed 1.03, even with all the whoring of pull/backstab. Now the game is just lame and any noob can kill anyone who's been playing the game since it came out. Unbelievable.

 

I'm getting the impression that you're pissed because CTF gameplay is more even. I got tired of seeing one team with 8 and the other with 0. Raven's objective was to balance multiplayer gameplay, probably because people like you kept bitching. Now that they have balanced it you still bitch. What does it take to satisfy people like you. A feminist blowjob?

 

It's totally ridiculous. You can STILL pull->backstab, it's just more challenging and harder to do. But it's POSSIBLE, I did it a few times last night. If you can't constantly get kill after kill with your lameass "backstab" manuver then you hate the game.

 

I have my complaints about the patch, and I have my compliments about it. FFA fighting is now actually fun. But the downside of that is you see people constantly running backwards trying to backstab you, because they don't know how to use the new pull. In that case, they're always getting owned. Don't run backwards on me, if you take that chance you're taking another chance on getting your head seperated from your neck and shoulders.

 

If you don't like the adjusments then I have a simple solution. Go back to 1.03, but that's not the point, the point is if people can't constantly do the pussy-ass pull->backstab manuver then they're pissed. Almost EVERYONE I saw was doung the pull->backstab manuver with 1.03, so I knew people would be pissed off when they restricted that. But, it's not totally 100% restricted, it's still possible to do it, just not very often.

 

I think they should have it seperated for different gametypes. You should be able to pull people off their feet in CTF mode, but not in FFA and Duel. I say not in FFA because a lot of people use FFA for dueling. That would MAYBE solve a lot of the anger.

 

I'm pretty pleased with the patch, I never used the pull->backstab manuver, and now everyone can't constantly do it on me which gives me a chance. I used to average 10 kills per game in FFA mode with version 1.03, now with 1.04 I'm getting no less than 15, and often winning.

 

You said it gives n00bs a chance to go download the patch, and win without any practice. You're wrong on that. I'm a n00b, and I'm not afraid to admit it, and my first time with 1.04 I got slaughtered. I don't fight like a n00b because the guys in the clan I'm in spend a lot of time training me and teaching me how to block saber moves (|DEM|Qui-Traz in particular, he was one of the better players with version 1.03, and he's still good even with version 1.04 without the pull->backstab manuver). I say get used to it.

 

Sorry, I had to get it off my chest, it's been collecting every day about the people constantly bitching. I know I'll probably either get banned or flamed, but I'm only speaking the truth. Peace out!

[ryudom]

ok i dunno if this has been said in this tread, but for CTF i'd put g_saberdamagescale to 3 or 4. that = FAST kills which is good right? now stop the winning. now bs is powerfull and so is every thing else

[Darth_Infamous]

Mosleg did you read ANYTHING of what I said? Or did you just scan it and make assumptions lumping me in with people that bitched about backstab. You know what they say about people who ASSume. I did not bitch about backstab, and I'm not bitching now about the ability to spam pull/backstab. If you took the time to read anything I wrote you'd see that them nerfing pull was fine with me. And the move does not work anymore. You have to do it 4 times to kill someone cleanly without modifying the saberdamage settings. And as far as EVENING out games...sure if you call 8 noobs against 8 decent players playing for 30 minutes in a 1 to 1 tie EVENING out the game, then you're right. But that's crap. The game is all hacking now. People hitting force speed or dark rage and just killing their mouse 1 button. HACK HACK HACK! As I said ANYONE can go out, buy the game, and be at the top of the scoreboard now.

 

Ever think the reason the games were 8 to 0 was because of the simple fact that the team with 8 had better skilled players? If people would manually even out the teams then maybe 8 to 0's wouldn't happen. But how many times do people switch up teams willingly? Everyone wants to be on blue, or if someone's on a certain team their buddies all join that team instead of auto-joining. Or if a clan is on the server they all hoard onto one team. THATS where the imbalance was. NOT with backstab. IT was MEANT to be a one hit kill. Now it's not. My whole point is that the backstab move ITSELF should be put back the way it was, even the pivot wasn't what pissed people off. It was the fact they were getting pulled to the ground first and being left open without defense. THAT was the problem. Not the move. The whoring of PULL THEN STAB was the problem. Why is it so hard for people to see that?

 

You lump me in with the people who were probably bitching about it, while the reality is I loved the 1.03 patch. The only problem I had with it was the fact that it made light side so much more powerful when in 1.02 I had been darkside. So I switched to light. No biggie. Now powers are even but saber is worthless. This last game I was on, another 1 to 1 great one for 30 minutes, all everyone was doing was kicking and saber throwing. How much fun is that? And the sad thing is, YOU HAVE TO do that now. It's the only way to guarantee a kill. Or you can hit force speed, and run around flailing the saber aimlessly hoping you hit something. Tell me how EVEN that is. Tell me how that 5 year old kid who can't even read could run around and get to 3rd on the scoreboard. Tell me that's even. It's not. It's crap.

 

Someone mentioned NF duels. Well I was just on a few Duel servers. In true NF duels now (meaning no jump or throw) everyones just crouch camping. Boy that's fun, try and dfa them, they roll away, can't kick em, or throw at em, so they sit there and wait for you to attack, then they lunge. Hmmm, fun. Atleast before you could jump over and backslash at em. Sigh. Whatever. It took Raven what 2 months between 1.03 and 1.04? If we have to wait that long again, or if they're not gonna fix this, I'm sure this game will go in the MP toilet. Come on GALAXIES!

[.:Silver:.]

Infamous, everyone is tired of your bitching. Everytime you enter a server and i tear you a new one you bitch and now that 1.04 has made you work for your kills you cry like a little girl. Time to uninstall Infamous and get a new hobby.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Darth_Infamous

[

Someone mentioned NF duels. Well I was just on a few Duel servers. In true NF duels now (meaning no jump or throw) everyones just crouch camping. Boy that's fun, try and dfa them, they roll away, can't kick em, or throw at em, so they sit there and wait for you to attack, then they lunge. Hmmm, fun. Atleast before you could jump over and backslash at em. Sigh. Whatever. It took Raven what 2 months between 1.03 and 1.04? If we have to wait that long again, or if they're not gonna fix this, I'm sure this game will go in the MP toilet. Come on GALAXIES! [/b]

 

Have you ever considered moving around the lunge and hitting them while they recover? It's really not that hard. Are you also aware that a well timed medium special will go over the lunge and do huge damage to an opponent? Maybe if you hadn't been so reliant on backstab you actually might have learned the above.

[Pada-Wan]

"you were the crybabies in the servers that bitched about being killed by it, but couldn't do it yourselves. "

 

Are you sure? I think they knew how, but they didn't resort to being so cheap. Everytime someone kills me via backstab, i make it my mission to go after them and beat them WITH SKILL. Watching the people run backwards to kill me via backstab is sad as hell.

 

 

"Come on GALAXIES!"

 

Forget that. I aint gonna pay monthly to play this game. Unless...it is the best star wars game ever

 

It sounds like you get most of your kills with backstab. I'm glad its gone now. It takes almost forever to beat your opposition with a lightsaber now.... just like the movies. The ROTJ, ESB, and EP1 fights were long as hell. I dont want to win a duel/battle in 2-3 mins with a lightsaber. I want a epic long duel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And CTF does sorta suck now. oh well, no biggie. Play some other mode

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

You want this thread to be deleted just because you think Sabs CTF is a stupid gametype?

 

The hundreds of people who play Sabs CTF would disagree with you.

 

Its a different style of game to Guns CTF, its not about chasing down the carrier its about surviving long enough in the enemy base to kill the carrier.

 

Don't say it shows a lack of skill to kill a flagcarrier with backstab, when you yourself clearly don't have any experience of the game-mode

 

This thread so far has been highly constructive, its pretty conclusive that the patch has screwed up CTF. Every decent player would use the saber at some point in CTF, even in guns. On the servers I frequent, i've yet to meet one person who likes the patch.

 

First off I said this thread should be deleted due to some of the ridiculous arguments about how CTF is ruined becasue backstabs aren't one hit kills.

 

Second, the fact that you say saber ctf is surviving long enough in the enemy base shows just how poor the saber performs in a CTF environment. The saber is ineffective in killing escaping cappers, thereby forcing you to try and kill a flag carrier in his/her fortified (well if the team is decent) base. Obviously there are going to be long standoffs when the only weapon you have to kill a carrier is a melee and you have to run through three to four defenders just to get to a carrier.

 

Third, it is a lack of skill killing a carrier with backstab. People backstabed all the time in guns ctf because it was a one hit kill that anyone could easily pull off. People that could rung around the map dodging gunfire at ease would eventually be hunted down by a pull/backstabebr and killed becasue the pull/backstab routine is a 1 hit kill that anyone could pull off and one that was incredibly overpowered until the last patch.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by [JA]-HooDWinkeR

Also, IronJedi, not every "noob" could do the pull/backstab. That's why they whined about it. And, there was a fine line between being able to do it, and being able to do it well. After seeing your post, I'm sure you were one of those people who whined about the backstab. And the saber used to be one of the strongest weapons in the game... now the DEMP 2 is better than the lightsaber. A player used to be able to do damage with his/her saber vs. a gun... not anymore.

 

And it won't JUST be Sabers CTF that will be screwed up, what about TFFA Sabers? Nobody's gonna stick around WAITING for someone to kill them after two or three minutes, they'll go get powerups.

 

And are we all forgetting about one ENTIRE gametype? The "Jedi Master" gametype is now COMPLETELY gone. Who in their right mind would use the now crappiest weapon to fend off gun weilders?

 

The sacrifice of many fun gametpyes for what? So that NF Duelists can have saber fights that last longer, and are more "true to the movies". FF Duels now include saber throw whoring, just like 1.02 (doesn't that sound like a step BACKWARDS?). How long do you reckon it will be before people begin to complain about saber throw? And then maybe they'll whine about Lightning. Maybe even grip, dark rage, protection. Perhaps they'll move on to how "unfair" it is that you can actually move around whilst performing ANY attack.

 

[lameness]Raven, I really find being able to run and walk a little... I dunno, it's kind of unfair. People are doing it too much, like this one time, this guy was fighting me, and he like... started to walk, and run... he was moving all around. I couldn't believe how unfair it was. PLEASE, Raven, PLEASE take out the ability to move in any direction in the next patch... in the original Star Wars (A New Hope), that's how Obi-Wan and Vader fought, afterall... they were hardly moving, aside from pivoting. I want this to be more like the movies, PLEASE, Raven! PLEASE TAKE OUT THE ABILITY TO MOVE AROUND![/end lameness].

 

*To those who do not understand, the above statement was addressed as a mockery to those who find special moves in general, "unfair".*

 

As for your first paragraph, you must be playing with some incredible gunners, or playing a mod, because the demp is weak, very weak. As I've said before, if the only way you could kill a gun user using a saber was backstab, then your obviously not a skilled saber user. There's this thing called heavy stance, two solid hits and the other person is dead. Thats in addition to having the other force powers at your aid.

 

As for your second paragraph, well its kind of hard to win tffa if everyone on your teams goes around collecting powerups and doesnt try to kill memebrs of the other team.

 

As for Jedimaster, well if your the only guy with force powers, that means you could..pull the overly dangerous guns away (flak and repeater) and use medium and heavy stance toslash at them? Not that hard. Saber beats every type of energy weapon in the game with the exceptionof the demp, which does barely any damage outside fof stripping your shields.

 

As for your full force duel analysis, does saber throw kill you in one hit? Is it unblockable? No. Try dodging and countering.

 

You can still kill people with a saber, you actually just have to put effort into it. No more cheap and easy kills.

[Talon_of_BHG]

seems to me the issue is saber damage being too low. g_saberdamgescale 3 or up will make the saber quite deadly. I run duels with it at 3 and believe me it doesnt take me long to take out someone just wildly swinging their saber. I never used backstab really and I racked kills just fine in 103 which probably accounts for my ability to beat saber defences head on. I am used to facing opponent and not going for the backstab. This isnt a shot at anyone I am just saying give yourself some time to develope your defence penetrating skills before jumping immediately to the Ihateit camp. saber ctf (with force I assume) had the same argument about it taking forever to take out someone with the saber. The only reasonable tactic was the backstab since it did a quick kill. Now that the backstab has changed ppl lost their quick kill. for answer look above at saberscale console command. Raise the saber damage and u have the entire arsenal of saber attacks that can now be as effective at cutting down opposition as it was intentionally meant to be. Just trying to put in some constructive words here.

 

ps - I liked mid air lunge and its still a viable maneuver if you assign a force cost to doing it IMO.

[ryudom]

my duels usually don't last long, even with the saber damage at normal. ppl that widly swing sabers take about 5-15 seconds. but, if you want evan faster action you can always RAISE THE SABER DAMAGE with g_saberdamagescale but no one seems to listen to me. maybe the ppl will read the bold.

[WD_Rage]

I've got a group of letters for you all:

 

JK2++

 

Seriously, try it out. You may like it.

 

WD's server runs it all the time. 146.20.43.203:28070

One of Jolt's servers run it (number 4, I believe), as well as Cheaters Wayside (though no cheaters are welcome).

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Since the patch has been released I have been killed ONCE by a saber in a competitive game. This is including Sabs CTF.

 

[JA]-HooDwinker is an experienced and skilled player, so don't just assume he's another one of the old backstab spammers, but when we can turn our saber off in a Sabers game, stand still for 30 seconds or so when being attacked by 3 or 4 people at once and come out alive, you know something is VERY wrong.

 

I would love to play on servers with the saber damage scale increased, but considering the fact that i'm limited to the few UK servers with low pings, its going to hard to convince companies like gamesdomain and barrysworld to change the settings especially considering the servers don't have admins ingame.

 

Yesterday I had a few really enjoyable Guns CTF games, but I would have preferred it If I had an effective melee weapon. After all when you're close to an enemy, if you start shooting at them with an energy weapon they will just switch to saber and block, and an explosive weapon will kill you. The offensive power of the saber in CTF was very important.

[Homosexual Ewok]

Talon_of_BHG has the right idea people.

 

The settings in my sig can be raised up to 200 if you like, sabers now can be more lethal than they ever have been in any of these patches.

 

You want the old style CTF back?

Set the damage scale to 5 and watch how fast flag carriers go down.

You won't even have to use the backstab, you can wipe them out with normal swings.

 

Talk to the admins of the servers you play in or e-mail them via the contact info most servers have on the loading page.

This stuff is great, just give it a shot.

[SeraphimII]

Originally posted by Darth_Infamous

Someone mentioned NF duels. Well I was just on a few Duel servers. In true NF duels now (meaning no jump or throw) everyones just crouch camping. Boy that's fun, try and dfa them, they roll away, can't kick em, or throw at em, so they sit there and wait for you to attack, then they lunge. Hmmm, fun. Atleast before you could jump over and backslash at em. Sigh. Whatever. It took Raven what 2 months between 1.03 and 1.04? If we have to wait that long again, or if they're not gonna fix this, I'm sure this game will go in the MP toilet. Come on GALAXIES!

 

LoL! Let them. My favorite thing to do is plow through a light lunge with a heavy downward swing. I take 10 damage they take 90-40, a fair trade. The timing can take skill to use but like all things it's just ONE of the many counters for every possible move. Another thing is get in range of their lunge and dodge it then strike them from behind. Don't just say something is unbeatable and dub it lame, when its not. Learn to act and react.

 

Much to learn have you, Young Grasshopper.

[Ranking_skin]

HAHAHAHA CRYBABYS!!!!!! I'LL GET THE TISSUES!!!!!!!!

 

*they killed back stab boo hoo wa wa wa*

[SWS_Bossk]

Alright, so, I rarely post, but I figured I should chip in here. It appears that the entire JK2 community is split in two. Half like the patch, half don't. Both sides have viable arguments supporting their cause, but, there are more issues than what has been stated here.

 

Agreed, that backstab need not have been nerfed so much. I'm content in the knowledge that I could kick ass without backstab during the 1.03 patch, and I can still kick ass without it now. I did, on the other hand, enjoy using it for flag carriers. There's nothing like sneaking up behind someone with mind trick on and beating them to shreds in half a second. That's real, that's all possible in the SW universe. Nobody survives a lightsabre going through them =P

 

Push and pull getting adjusted, that was extremely good. Now Dark Side has a chance for CTF! They can actually run the flag back with minimal (though still some) fear of being pulled off a ledge because someone is hot on their tail. The Force is even again! In version 1.02 it was all Dark Side... version 1.03 the Light Side, now, like Anakin become Darth Vader, it is evening out. Kudos to Raven for fixing this major issue! Although the light side is more powerful in the SW universe (aka, EU and movies), fora game like this, it's best that they remain on equal terms.

 

As for the light stance lunge, as a programmer myself, I know it would have been impossible for them to prevent you from chaining it in the air. The very move takes you forward for the lunge, hence ceasing your downwards motion. They did the right thing, though I do miss the move, by removing your ability to use it in the air. What Jedi can change directions in mid-air anyway? Maybe, just maybe, instead of removing the move entirely, make a modified version of it for use in air which doesn't take you forward, but still throws your saber out a bit?

 

To the people who are complaining about CTF games lasting forever, I feel for you. Truly, it is a problem. How fun is it to run around endlessly after a flag carrier trying to kill him, while he goes from one powerup to the next? Yes, I know, the major argument here is "teamwork", but, you go out and join the average server. Who exactly can you rely on to do what is necessary and help you kill their flag carrier? Strangers are not team-players. With regards to 8-0 games, that's only fair. Some teams are stronger than others, there's no way to avoid that. It is the human element.

 

My biggest issue has already been said, but I'll say it again. For every one of the patches, Raven has been listening to the majority. The majority wanted red DFA nerfed so you can't spin with it (Very good job majority! Most appreciated!), Raven cut that out. The majority wanted pull-backstab removed, they got both pull and backstab removed. Raven cut both out and modified them to an extreme. Now the majority isn't happy. I rarely encounter people who are happy with the patch, even though I am happy with it, though slightly miffed at certain points.

 

No matter what Raven does, some people won't appreciate it. I agree backstab should be restored to its prior strength, but people, you have only yourselves to blame if you're unhappy with the patch, unless you never complained about backstab / pull-backstab (I never did, I used it, I sucked it up when I got killed with it). Raven is only doing what you want.

 

If you want it fixed, let them know, but think about what you want before you ask. You've only got 3 wishes, and the next patch is number 3.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

oooh, good post, I agree.

[TKMaim]

1.04 just doesn't cut it in SO/FO CTF games. I have to agree with Infamous. I've spent more time than I care to mention on 1.02 and 1.03 servers. On both 1.02 and 1.03 you could still play SO CTF and play it well. After 1.03 came out the only viable option was the pull/bs/kick/lunge. Now that 1.04 is out the options are kick.

 

I've played against Infamous plenty of times and have never, ever seen him spam a move. He's one of the best people on any SO/CTF server I've seen. Sure, I got owned a ton of times by him and by others, but instead of coming on this board or others and whinning about why I can't compete. I did something about it. I learned. I watched. I spent time talking with some of the best.

You know what? I can compete with any of them now.

 

The 1.04 patch has truely destroyed the SO CTF game.

 

Luckily my favorite server kept 1.03. Infamous knows which one I'm talking about......

 

Good luck... and BTW I'm starting my own server in the event that Hero changes the server to 1.04, us 1.03 fans will still have a place to go....

[SeraphimII]

Ok why won't ppl learn type g_saberdamage 4-200 bazillion! and you'll get Strong Sabers that kill quickly and make ctf with saber only fun as hell. Although higher setting will make it way too easy to kill people.

 

 

 

Please read everything and if this doesn't work SAY so, don't just go babling on and on about why sabers only ctf sucks like your not reading what other ppl are saying.

 

 

Sorry if this seems like a flame.

[Talon_of_BHG]

what seraphim said

 

[Silent Bob]

Hmmm... Sounds like soccer to me!

[|DEM|Mosleg]

Originally posted by Ranking_skin

HAHAHAHA CRYBABYS!!!!!! I'LL GET THE TISSUES!!!!!!!!

 

*they killed back stab boo hoo wa wa wa*

 

Wahoooo!!! Let's run to the local convienent store and grab a few boxes of tissues for them.

[Novastorm]

Well i have only seen CTF posts here, but a quick note on duel what happened to me about 30 minutes ago on a server, this guy was just doing drain all the time so he always had full health and i had no force.....toher than that he just hacked away....normally i'd just backslash (what i call it) this idiot....not even pull/backslash....don't need that one idiots like that....normally...but alas i have 1.04 now...totally ####ed up, n00bs rule the world, well they can have it, i'm letting my JK2 disc gather dust untill they bring the backslash back (ie. probably never so i won't see you guys around)

[Mercen4ry]

Originally posted by Novastorm

Well i have only seen CTF posts here, but a quick note on duel what happened to me about 30 minutes ago on a server, this guy was just doing drain all the time so he always had full health and i had no force.....toher than that he just hacked away....normally i'd just backslash (what i call it) this idiot....not even pull/backslash....don't need that one idiots like that....normally...but alas i have 1.04 now...totally ####ed up, n00bs rule the world, well they can have it, i'm letting my JK2 disc gather dust untill they bring the backslash back (ie. probably never so i won't see you guys around)

 

My I find it funny that move spammers have been crawling out of their holes since the release of 1.04. Sorry Novastorm, but I have no sympathies here.

 

As for my thoughts on "pointless sabers" in CTF, just view my FRR. It contains all the information laced with sarcasm that you could ever need.

[Talon_of_BHG]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Novastorm

Well i have only seen CTF posts here, but a quick note on duel what happened to me about 30 minutes ago on a server, this guy was just doing drain all the time so he always had full health and i had no force.....toher than that he just hacked away....normally i'd just backslash (what i call it) this idiot....not even pull/backslash....don't need that one idiots like that....normally...but alas i have 1.04 now...totally ####ed up, n00bs rule the world, well they can have it, i'm letting my JK2 disc gather dust untill they bring the backslash back (ie. probably never so i won't see you guys around)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

why didnt u just hit him while he was in his drain animation? after a couple hits he either doesnt do it or he dies. of course the games i play have saberdamagescale set to at least 3 or 4 so backslash isnt the only move that would work.