cig Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 If you really want them to know you hate these patches, then quit playing them an load 1.02 back up. 1.02 is the best version by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Everybody loves 1.04, except a few former l337 backstabbers who can't do their "thing" anymore. The quality of the anti-1.04 posts shows clearly what kind of people these complainers are... "GF" and "LOL" is all you hear on 1.04-servers nowadays.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cig Posted July 15, 2002 Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 1.02 is the best version simply because it has more depth of play than the other patches. So before you all start going haha, 1.04 is best . . . 1.02 had multiple ways of getting 4,5 even 6 hit combos. And even after doing those same combos about a million times, I still have problems pulling them off . . . can you say the same about ANYTHING in 1.03 or 1.04? I think not. I do think that Backstabbing was cheap, but I would usually only Pull-Backstabb if someone tried to DFA me. Which I think is reasonable. A really easy solution to make 1.02 perfect would have been to make DFA damage 99 hps, then make it so that pull cannot under any circumstances knock you down. And of course lower BS dmg and tweek a few force powers. The autoblock is totally stupid, its the thing that has destroyed saber battles. All you gotta do is stand there an you block EVERY attack, moronic. Any retard can stand there an block every swing NO SKILL REQUIRED. Not only that but the damage on the new swings is way too low. 2 very controllable moves, kick and DFA were nerfed into uselessness. Funny enough, kick was the one PERFECT counter to backstabs, which they coincedentially made the kick infinitely harder to do when they made 1.03, the patch that made ass fighting so popular . . . I just think the game has lost most the skill that was needed to play it. I compare it to tekken, its like they made everyone have autoblocking on all attacks high and low. Its dumbed down in saber fighting. So in conclussion yes backstabbing was cheap, and Im glad its nerfed but did they have to nerf the depth, and everything else that made the game fun/challenging? Because now its more a test of luck not skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deetox187 Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 I agree with you 100% cig, the saber fights in 1.02 are far more elaborate and WAY more fun. With the right settings 1.04 can be fun too but it still doesn't compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iguelmay Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 i like 1.04.... IF (and this is a big IF) the server has saber damage scaled up to 2 or 3.... i think 2 is the minimum it should be set to. Right now saber battles are ridiculously tedious. Normal attacks do neglible damage and DFA is probablly the fastest way to get kills in FFA now. When saber damage goes up to 2 or 3 controlling your attacks becomes much more important. Each swing is a viable way to kill/seriously damage someone. Blocking and dodging become much more important. Mindless swinging and poor DFA's will get you slaughtered. Another thing i like is JK++. Saber damage is naturally scaled up and blocking is adjusted. Also force power tweaks are nice, not to mention dismemberment. The only problem is there aren't enough jk++ servers!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I agree with you on the saber damage issue, cig. But I am really tired of seeing this old dog........ The autoblock is totally stupid, its the thing that has destroyed saber battles. All you gotta do is stand there an you block EVERY attack, moronic. Any retard can stand there an block every swing NO SKILL REQUIRED. For starters, this is quite telling as to how much you actually played 1.03. A heavy swing broke through just about any stance even with the autoblocking. And autoblocking blocking everything is a myth. It didn't and if you don't believe me, you and I should hop on a server sometime, and you can play the part of the self-proclaimed "retard" and see for yourself. The truth is it blocks quite a few "frontal attacks" if someone is doing nothing, but if they are swinging or using a force power they are vulnerable. They are also vulnerable to attacks from the side and to particular frontal attacks depending on which stance they are in. And heavy swings frequently bust up the defenses. And in the all posts I've seen on this topic, I've never seen any "autoblocking makes it so no skill is required" poster provide an adequate explanation as to why increased blocking is any less skillful than the v1.02 method of having no blocking (i.e. every saber swing makes it through). All you have to do is get in close and swing before your opponent does. No thinking about where you need to attack to get by their defenses (heck you didn't get the swing you thought you were getting half the time), or about using a force power to make them more vulnerable. Just fire away and hope your randomly selected saber swing hits before your opponents does. The anti-autoblocking faction always makes it sound as if autoblocking has majorly wronged them or killed their dog. What seems to be missing from their logic or posts is that if you come across "a retard standing there and blocking every swing NO SKILL REQUIRED", he is not doing a SINGLE DAMN THING to you. Nobody in the history of v1.03 ever died by having their opponent autoblock them to death. Quite possibly they died, because their opponent waited out their tactic-less "I want my v1.02" saber assault, and launched a counterattack. This begs the following questions: 1) If someone is just standing there doing nothing, why didn't you try something else than a frontal assault? 2) If someone just "autoblocked" you into despair and have started counterattacking, why didn't you just "autoblock" yourself right back into the fight instead of fighting? The answer to number 2 is in my first paragraph above. The answer to number 1 has something to do with your skill relative to the "retard" I suppose. And I'll repeat my question one more time in the hopes of getting an adequate explanation....... How is it that autoblocking is any less skillful than autohitting? Why is the game making it easier to block considered "no skill required" while the game making it easier to hit someone is not? Viewed in this light it becomes rather obvious to most that in order to kill someone more skill is required with autoblocking than with autohitting. If v1.03 is no skill required, than that makes v1.02 what? Negative skill required? TDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I have an idea Write another petition for a JKII patch(even though Raven is probably too lazy to come out with one), or at the very least get JK2++ (the download is for server-side alone, and it improves the balance) But please, quit complaining, I don't think much will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yu-Law Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I just played JK++ for about 2 hours.... though I have all the respect in the world for [WD] I must say that guns still had too much of an advantage. There is practically NOTHING that can stop an absorbing splash damage gunner. (Which is BS) However, it is still in beta, so we'll see what happens. I still recommend it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cig Posted July 16, 2002 Author Share Posted July 16, 2002 "And I'll repeat my question one more time in the hopes of getting an adequate explanation....... How is it that autoblocking is any less skillful than autohitting? Why is the game making it easier to block considered "no skill required" while the game making it easier to hit someone is not?" The explanation is quite simple, auto blocking you actually do nothing an swings get blocked. I played 1.03 extensively, all i had to do was continually face my opponent, an even half the time NOT face my opponent an all swings were blocked. Red swings were made less reliable for one simple reason, the range of the red stance used to be its advantage which was totally taken away with the new autoblocking. At the same time the MOST controllable swings (RED stance) got an unneeded tweek which made them less controllable, an the yellow an blue were still uncontrollable. Incase you didnt realize, red had the longest range, yellow the next shortest, and blue had the least amount of range, meaning the lighter the stance you used the closer you had to be to score a hit. 1.02 had blocking, but a LOT of it was range from an to your opponent. In real sword fighting thats how it works, you rely less on blocking an more on foot work to confuse your opponent. With 1.03-autoblocking the red stance was made worthless and the yellow as well, blue became the new stance to use, because range now meant NOTHING with the new autoblocking, and STILL MEANS NOTHING. The most uncontrollable swing was and now is the best to use, which means lucky flailing wins matches being that now your only open when you swing, so of course the faster swings mean your open less. I annihilate people with blue stance when they use red now, I just hold down the attack button when I feel they will be open and strafe left, strafe right, I win. LOL "about using a force power to make them more vulnerable. Just fire away and hope your randomly selected saber swing hits before your opponents does." You obviously never played with red stance attacks in 1.02, EVERY SWING was more controllable that ANY 1.03 attack. IF you know how to controll them. And im not just talking DFA here. I'll admit 1.04 swings are good, but thats because they restored the 1.02 red stance virtually the way it was, and now blue and yellow seem to be more controllable than ever. But the swings mean nothing if they can all be blocked so easily. As it stands now Blue stance is proly the best. Yellows only use is the DFA in yellow stance. Red is worthless unless your opponent is dumb enough to let you get a red DFA off on him. And this is just hit-ability, not even mentioning the nerf to damage . . . nothing I love more than attack-run-away-and-heal/drain all day long. Red is sorely lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-tecc Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I would like to see more 1.02 servers too.. btw, anyone know a place that holds the 1.02 dedicated server tools? I would like to download these... Ohh and they should do a split-patch: choose betwean 1.02 style jk2 (except for bug fixes ofcourse) and 1.04 style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_st Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I agree 100% Cig. 1.02 saber fighting was by no means perfect (there were quite a few random kills with red style, and yellow and blue swings were a bit uncontrollable), but all in all it was sheer fun. 1.03 turned the frantic 1.02 saber style into a boring autoblocking hell, with more dumb autoblocking than I ever saw in any game. How's autoblocking a no skill you say? Easy, anything you don't do and the computer does for you, it is something that doesn't require skill. It may take more skill for the adversary to break that "improved" blocking, but that autoblock shouldn't be in the first place (it is made without your intervention), so moot point there. In 1.02 I remember playing FFA and CTF and actually doing fine using mostly regular swings (red), kicks and drain. In 1.03 doing that was utterly useless, I don't remember ANYONE, in all games I played in 1.03, using regular swings and scoring kills consistently. I repeat, ANYONE; at least in FFA or CTF, I didn't play duel. Many (most) people, in one way or another relied on the infamous BS and yellow DFA to score kills with the saber, so that is a good proof by itself that 1.03 screwed the saber fighting big time. Now that 1.04 fixes assfighting (which I strongly agree with), I guess -because I don't think I'll be playing much from now on- that saber fighting will be a tedious 1 minute per battle, in which you'll wonder many times whether you are wielding one of the most deadly weapons in the universe or a rusty old pipe you just grabbed from the ground, because no-one is slightly intimidated by it. For me 1.04 is just like 1.03 without BS, which is much better but it's still lacking. Sorely lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|DEM|Mosleg Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Version 1.04 is decent if you notice the only people crying about it is the ones who could only backstab. With 1.03 I was a big backstabber, but I still love 1.04. There are many 1.04 servers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deetox187 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by V-tecc I would like to see more 1.02 servers too.. btw, anyone know a place that holds the 1.02 dedicated server tools? Here you go, now get that server up! http://www.jedicenter.com/downloads/index.phtml?id=132348&language=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-tecc Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Deetox187 Here you go, now get that server up! http://www.jedicenter.com/downloads/index.phtml?id=132348&language=en Thanks, friend... Ill try to get it up soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idlemind Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 I agree, 1.02 was far better than 1.04. The saber battles were just more fun. Having said that however, I've resigned myself to the fact that we are never going to see 1.02 style play again from Raven. And you can make a 1.02 server, but eventually there just wont be anybody playing it anymore. Newbs won't even know what 1.02 is. All in all, I enjoy 1.04, just not as much as 1.02, but I'll still play it. At least I'm playing at all. I bascially quit 1.03 until 1.04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-tecc Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Originally posted by idlemind I agree, 1.02 was far better than 1.04. The saber battles were just more fun. Having said that however, I've resigned myself to the fact that we are never going to see 1.02 style play again from Raven. And you can make a 1.02 server, but eventually there just wont be anybody playing it anymore. Newbs won't even know what 1.02 is. All in all, I enjoy 1.04, just not as much as 1.02, but I'll still play it. At least I'm playing at all. I bascially quit 1.03 until 1.04. What ever happened to standing for something you believe in? For me the decision was simple: If I want to have fun = 1.02 If people get their voices heard and show Raven/LA that 1.02 is the way to go, then the next patch (if there will be one) maybe finally will be towards the 1.02 way. Until then I'm going 1.02... anyone with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Originally posted by cig "And I'll repeat my question one more time in the hopes of getting an adequate explanation....... How is it that autoblocking is any less skillful than autohitting? Why is the game making it easier to block considered "no skill required" while the game making it easier to hit someone is not?" Well if u had any skill whatsoever u would know how to break through their defenses with no problem I know i dont have any gripes about the autoblocking (it made those pesky always hit saber throws go away), now about the disconnect/reconnect bug dropping the player.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 Originally posted by Luc Solar Everybody loves 1.04, except a few former l337 backstabbers who can't do their "thing" anymore. The quality of the anti-1.04 posts shows clearly what kind of people these complainers are... "GF" and "LOL" is all you hear on 1.04-servers nowadays.. I seem to run into your annoying posts all day. CAN YOU PLEASE USE FACT AND STOP WITH THE BS What is this Quality of anti -1.04 posts crap! You can't defend it AT ALL. all you say is "it takes more skill now" "it takes more skill now" "it takes more skill now" "it takes more skill now" "it takes more skill now" "it takes more skill now" And nothing else! You can't even make a valid point!!! Then you write this like we are all so stupid we will believe it.. "GF" and "LOL" is all you hear on 1.04-servers nowadays.. " Please man I play 1.04 and you know what I see a lot more "this patch sucks" "this is boring" "yawn" You say everyone loves this game? Then why is there a a drop in active on-line players? They may not be leaving your servers but the numbers don't lie. I have actually seen the numbers go up in people that play 1.02 because of this patch. When people start to play the original version you know that the patch is not making peopl too happy!! You need to stop posting lies and enjoy your 1.04 while it last, because it won't be too long before Raven realizes that they are losing gamers because of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 Originally posted by {DHU}Screed Originally posted by cig "And I'll repeat my question one more time in the hopes of getting an adequate explanation....... How is it that autoblocking is any less skillful than autohitting? Why is the game making it easier to block considered "no skill required" while the game making it easier to hit someone is not?" Well if u had any skill whatsoever u would know how to break through their defenses with no problem I know i dont have any gripes about the autoblocking (it made those pesky always hit saber throws go away), now about the disconnect/reconnect bug dropping the player.................. First things first. Please put a end qoute command after the text you wish to comment on. Second - you as all other 1.04 defenders did not answer cig's question. "How is it that autoblocking is any less skillful than autohitting?" You evaded it by attacking him. The fact is you could not answer it because you know that what he is getting at is true. Auto blocking is garbage! If he had skill he could break the block? If you had skill you wouldn't need it to block throws, which by the way seem to have no trouble blocking in 1.02. The fact is this - those that like the patch had a ruff time playing the other versions and needed Raven to remove certain moves and weaken others so that they could win. No matter how you look at this, they did not have these problems because their skill level was TOO HIGH. Fact: You sucked against <insert move here> but now that Raven has removed it, you have a better chance of winning. wooohooo for you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 Originally posted by V-tecc What ever happened to standing for something you believe in? For me the decision was simple: If I want to have fun = 1.02 If people get their voices heard and show Raven/LA that 1.02 is the way to go, then the next patch (if there will be one) maybe finally will be towards the 1.02 way. Until then I'm going 1.02... anyone with me? I am! Please search for Dreps Saber Master servers ("dreps" is in green) if you want to find me or my clan [P:DJ] on-line. The fact that we have to argue that needing Raven to remove moves for you, proves that you aren't that great is ridiculous. However if we ever want to take this game out of the I-can't-win-please-patch-it people's hands we need to make as much noise in this forum as possible and e-mail Raven as much as possible just like they did to get this crappy patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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