Enough of this canon #### debate!

[DocBledsoe]

I just re-watched that seen and cannot see any such look. Jango does hold a blaster in his left hand in the arena, but it disappears after his rolling escape from the beast.

 

I cannot argue with the hand severing b/c of the quality of this film. However, I must say it looks as though his hand is severed. Can't wait for the DVD.

 

9 times? That's a damn shame. I am a fan, you're a lunatic. But I understand, I watched the superbowl upwards of 10 times. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Watch empire again, if he isn't scared, he is lying.

 

Covering face: I mean you no harm.

 

I guess in this world of die hards that is some EU way of conveying complete peace? Blah.

[ET Warrior]

Your poor quality film must be causing problems, because there IS a look. Mace is lookin down at Jango and his face is just......Bad ass...

 

Ahhhh, i would never use EU to explain something that happened in the movies unless it was my very last resort. The reason Yoda covers his face is A. Luke has a blaster pointed at Yoda's face, and Yoda wants to show that he's not a threat, and B. Yoda is trying to make luke think he's just a crazy, old, crippled hermit. Yoda also goes through lukes stuff like he's never seen things like a lamp before....which we all know he has. In the end it's all a test for Luke....which he failed miserably.

 

 

And yes, i am, in fact, a lunatic.

[mez1109]

In the end it's all a test for Luke....which he failed miserably.

 

I am SORRY?

Please explain why he fails.

 

Why do people on this forum hate Luke, you can never say that Like is not as good as any other Jedi.

 

Do you know WHY?

 

Easy, you are all Star Wars fans?

 

YES

 

Well, George Lucas based Luke somehow in his own fanatasy self image, as he said many times, Luke is George's Hero in SW, NOT Obi Wan, NOT Mace Windu, NOT Yoda, NOT Anyone except of LUKE.

 

End of Story, so stop putting down Luke, he is supposed to be the best Jedi ever, I don't care if he doesn't have thousands of Jedi saber battles, or take on Vader with a blind fold and with his hands tied behind his back, as DocBledsoe says, all die, Luke does live.

 

You try to find any Jedi that survives the Empire at their strongest, with hardly any other Jedi help, take on the Death Star twice, get shot so many laser at him from Storm Troopers with no Light Saber some times to aid him, take on bounty hunters and the SW Mafia Jabba The Hutt, and fight Vader and Lord Sidious.

 

If Yoda is soooo GREAT, where the hell was HE?

 

In the swamp, sleeping next to frogs and trees lilke a hippy, while Luke does his dirty work, it is true, cowards or people who can't just be bothered always live longer.

 

I don't want to hear no rubbish that Luke didn't kill Sidious Vader did, and Vader didn't want to kill Luke, I attack one of you with a light saber, I try not to kill you, but I will if you are trying to kick the **** out of me.

 

Luke is a HERO, NOT SUPERMAN, he can not be expected to be the god of all Jedis, this is Lucas, not a Japonese Dragonball Z story, where the only way to win is to reach a higher and higher power level.

 

THE TRUTH, LUKE NOT DEAD, ALL POWERFUL JEDI and SITH

 

DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!

[ET Warrior]

Luke failed every test that Yoda set up for him. Plain and simple, watch empire again and watch. FIRST, Yoda tests luke's patience, so see if he has the patience to become a jedi. Luke gets mad, throws down his food and says "i dont even know what i'm doing here. I'm WASTING my time." Yoda sighs and starts telling obiwan he cannot train luke. THEN yoda takes luke to the cave. First he tells luke that he won't need his weapons, but luke takes the weapons anyway, and strikes down 'vader' with his anger, thus failing another test. And then luke failed to lift his x-wing out of the swamp. THEN luke left without completing his training to go save his friends...but he didn't do ANYTHING for his friends. All he managed to do was get his hand cut off and he actually caused more problems for Lando leia and chewie because they had to turn around and pick him up. Seeya.

 

Luke took on the death star once, and without Han Solo, luke would not have destroyed said death star. Lando calrissian and wedge antilles took on the second death star, and neither of them had the force. Also, Luke did survive after getting shot at by those many stormtroopers while not armed with his saber....but Han Solo and Chewbacca ALSO lived, and neither of them have the force. Han solo is the only reason that Luke wasn't shot in the back by Boba Fett.

I CAN say that Luke is not as good as other Jedi. We saw for our own eyes in ESB that Yoda is a LOT more powerful than luke. He lifted lukes X-wing like it was nothing. Luke barely moved it.

I don't want to hear no rubbish that Luke didn't kill Sidious Vader did

That's not rubbish....that's fact.

[DocBledsoe]

Atleast you are admitting that Yoda is a liar.

 

Lies deceipt creating mistrust are his ways now.....hmm maybe it all makes sense, maybe Yoda wants Luke dead b/c he is the Lucas Jedi and not a real Jedi. <sarcastic>

 

Yoda was a liar. Test or no test he lied.

 

So what's wrong with Anakin getting a little? Nothing. But wait, they both die....

 

They all die anyway...

 

None of them are real. I feel like Holden McNeil, ET is Jay, mez is Silent Bob and we're in that f***ed up movie....

 

Kevin Smith is the only true Jedi

[mez1109]

ET Warrior, does Luke not learn from his mistakes in ROTJ, and becomes a real Jedi with anger control etc.

 

The tests of Yoda did not test his capabilities as a Jedi only, they tested if he was to become a SITH just like daddy, and all signs of anger and frustration, the same properties of Anakin, but Luke stayed good, not bad, so he did pass in some way, even though the signs were bad at the beginining, this is called good story telling, keeping the audience's thought of what might happen unbalanced you could say, that anything may be possible during the story.

 

Still, none of what you said was anything new, and it still doesn't show that Obi Wan, Mace Windu orYoda are better.

 

If Yoda is soooo good (repeated before), why did he die in the swamp like a wussy, Jedi die with honour.

 

Princess Leia HAS got the Jedi powers, and Han Solo and Chewy are the co-chaacters who seem to live through things that others don't

 

Look at R2D2, they lived (if robots live) or survived all the SW sagas, but they are only comic relief, even though lots of Jedi died within the Arena scene, these two robots and Padme survived, hmmmmm who would win a Jedi or Padme, it's like saying Jango should have killed several Jedi and at least scratched Mace Windu, Not going to happen, but I think in SW if GL wants, Padme could kill a Jedi with a laser gun.

 

ALL Jedi DEAD, LUKE Alive.

[MotionMan]

Yoda was not a lyer. He was mearly testing Luke. He was probably testing how Luke reacted to certain situations.

[DocBledsoe]

And how does he test Luke?

 

SAY IT SAY IT!!!

 

Yoda was LYING to test Luke. LYING. He lied about being afraid and he lied about the way he looked at things (according to you).

 

This is black or white, there is no gray area. He is either afraid, or he is lying.

 

I'm waiting for someone to say he was cloned and the Yoda that fought Dooku was the Sith Yoda. But I don't care to heat why this is outrageous, b/c that is silly. Explaining what could be and what couldnt be within the realm of fiction is about as outrageous as it can get.

 

ROTJ should have had this exchange in it:

 

Luke: "Master Yoda why did you cower from me when I first arrived? Were you scared or deceiving me?"

Yoda: "Little green hypocrite am I. MMMMMM. Make something of it you want to? Stomp your stupid ass I will. Yours is not to question."

Luke" "I'm sorry master-

Yoda: "Apologize not!

Luke: "I'm sorry you turned to the dark side- <light saber ignites> Yoda's head and sliced cane hit the floor>

Luke: "My ass you can kiss. Green piece of Sh!t you are."

[MotionMan]

Why would Yoda be afraid of Luke? He was obviously acting the part. Yoda could have eaisily thrown luke across the lake with the force. Luke had minimal training as a jedi. And with "minimal" im giving him too much credit.

[ET Warrior]

If Yoda is soooo good (repeated before), why did he die in the swamp like a wussy, Jedi die with honour.

Yeah, i guess i forgot about the part in episode 2 where we see the plaque hanging on the wall in the jedi council room that says Jedi Must Die with Honor. And where exactly is the dishonor in dying of old age? Lets recap, Yoda has trained Jedi for 800 years. He was the most powerful jedi in existance. he is also the only reason that luke knows how to do more than force pull his lightsaber to himself after 2 minutes of trying..he saved both obi-wan and anakins life in ep 2......will probably save OTHER people/jedi in episode 3.....yeah....what a wussy.

Princess Leia HAS got the Jedi powers

Princess Leia has a high midichlorian count. She has no idea what or how she should use them. she has the same 'powers' that anakin had in ep 1. Basically she has good reflexes and is luckier than most people. And Han and Chewie still survived, no matter what you say, meaning they are apparently just as talented as Luke skywalker, and han solo has saved lukes life more times than luke has saved han's.

 

And DocBledsoe...i'm not sure..but are you saying that because Yoda lied to Luke he had to have turned to the dark side? Because if you are that means obiwan was a dark jedi too, because he told luke that vader murdered his father....and he lied to the kaminoans when he was on Kamino...

[DocBledsoe]

And you ACT by LYING.

 

Act - A manifestation of intentional or unintentional insincerity; a pose: put on an act.

 

You are saying he lied.

 

If not lying then he was afraid.

 

Pick one. You lose.

 

You are lying to yourself b/c you are afraid of the truth.

[MaTT[-FcG-]]

Originally posted by mez1109

ET Warrior, does Luke not learn from his mistakes in ROTJ, and becomes a real Jedi with anger control etc.

 

INT EMPEROR'S TOWER - THRONE ROOM

 

Vader stalks the low-ceilinged area on the level below the

throne, searching for Luke in the semi-darkness, his lightsaber

held ready.

 

VADER

You cannot hide forever, Luke.

 

LUKE

I will not fight you.

 

VADER

Give yourself to the dark side. It is the

only way you can save your friends. Yes, your

thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them

are strong. Especially for...

 

Vader stops and senses something. Luke shuts his eyes tightly, in

anguish.

 

VADER

Sister! So...you have a twin sister. Your

feelings have now betrayed her, too. Obi-Wan

was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure

is complete. If you will not turn to the dark

side, then perhaps she will.

 

LUKE

NOOOOOOOOooooooooo!!!.....

 

Luke ignites his lightsaber and screams in anger, rushing at his

father with a frenzy we have not seen before. Sparks fly as Luke

and Vader fight in the cramped area. Luke's hatred forces Vader

to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a

vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his

father further toward defeat.

 

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword

to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off

at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the

mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the

edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke

moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark

Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased

agitation.

 

 

You call that anger management?

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by DocBledsoe

And you ACT by LYING.

 

Act - A manifestation of intentional or unintentional insincerity; a pose: put on an act.

 

You are saying he lied.

 

If not lying then he was afraid.

 

Pick one. You lose.

 

You are lying to yourself b/c you are afraid of the truth.

I guess i missed the part where it says why it matters if Yoda was not 100% truthful to luke..........

[MotionMan]

I dont recall watching the part were it says Jedi Masters are saints:rolleyes:

[ET Warrior]

It was on a sign, right next to the sign that said Jedi Die with honor

[DocBledsoe]

 

I'll accept that as an admittance of lying. Where do I get the need for honesty? Episode 2, you saw it 9x.

 

"Joined the darkside Dooku has. Lies, deceipt, creating mistrust are his ways now."

 

 

I'm not arguing this anymore. You have lost and are now backing off and backing down.

 

Im disappointed....surely you can do better.

 

Sadly I will just continue to embarass you.

[MotionMan]

I guese every single Jedi we have ever seen in the movies that have lied(jokingly or seriously) have now gone to the darkside:rolleyes:

He was most likely playing the part of a crazy jungle creature.

[ET Warrior]

yeah...like i said. ObiWan has obviously joined the darkside.

On Kamino

Lama Su: "Would you like to inspect them?"

ObiWan: "That's, why i'm here."

 

An obvious LIE, as obiwan did not know they were even making clones for the republic. And obiwan lied in a new hope, when he said that Vader murdered lukes father. Then he told stormtroopers in mos eisley that r2 and 3po weren't the droids they were looking for. Lies again. Obiwan was apparently nearly as evil as emperor palpatine himself!

 

Then of course QuiGon tried to mind-trick Watto, and convince him that Republic credits would work fine....when they wouldn't, This of course also makes QuiGon evil.....then Yoda, the greatest of all Jedi masters didn't really lie, so much as he acted more foolish than he really was... so he's evil...

 

Yoda was not saying at the end that telling lies makes you evil. He was saying that Dooku had joined the darkside, and so what he says is meant to create distrust. You say i saw it 9 times in episode 2....you showed one, not very good example. show me 8 others.

[mez1109]

I don't understand why you are contradicting yourselves.

 

Jedi are like monks, they have a code of rules, and like Vulcans (sorry to those that hate Star Trek), they try to have perfect inner piece, and not lie or do anything evil based.

 

ALL Jedi have a 100% personnality, either they are 100% Evil or 100% Good, but Luke is an exception, he is 50/50.

 

For example Luke gets angry to protect his sister from Vader, but he does NOT join the Dark Side, so there is not much of an argument that Luke is Evil, not even Sidious understands this, as any Jedi that does what Luke did, goes normally to the dark side, just look at what happened to Anakin revenging his mother.

 

The point is, that Luke is probably the perfect version of a Jedi, as he is NOT always lawful, but also disproves Yoda's theory of total goodness, with that anger and fear being the signs of the dark side.

 

This also give Yoda the excuse to LIE, but Yoda is NOT Luke, and he always mentions the bad properties of a Sith.

 

Still lieing Yoda is not Evil, if you agree with that, angry Luke is neither Evil and in perfect control of himself.

 

After ALL this, Luke WON, and he didn't join the dark side.

 

Please stick to your point, either being a bit Evil is alright or NOT, but you can never put Luke in this equation, as he has this unique Human property of expressing anger, but controlling it when needed.

:D :D

[ET Warrior]

Yeah, did you watch obiwan duel darth maul? After QuiGon was killed, obiwan was attacking maul with all his anger and aggression, you could see it on his face. But then he calmed himself and finally defeated maul. Luke's not the only jedi who can be angry and still stay on the light, seeyabye

[Woad]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Yeah, did you watch obiwan duel darth maul? After QuiGon was killed, obiwan was attacking maul with all his anger and aggression, you could see it on his face. But then he calmed himself and finally defeated maul. Luke's not the only jedi who can be angry and still stay on the light, seeyabye

 

Hell even Yoda looked pissed and made what sounded like a growling noise right before he fought Dooku. Obviously he composes himself but Yoda got just a little ticked at the slaughter of countless Jedi and then the attempted murder of one of his students.

[ET Warrior]

And then Obiwan looked awfully mad at the Acklay when he finally killed it....but he still didn't go over to the darkside. So basically, Jedi are not trying to be perfect. They still have emotions. What makes them Jedi is the fact that they don't let their emotions rule their actions.

And where exactly are you coming up with Yoda's theory of perfection? I have yet to hear Yoda ever mention that Jedi must be perfect.....

Luke was not in perfect control of himself. He Lost complete control of himself when he was attacking vader....he lost it so much after he had Vader on the ground and beaten he still kept chopping away at him with all his fury. The only thing that calmed him was when he saw that vader's hand was mechanical, just like his, and something about that reminded him that Vader was his father...and he did not want to strike down his father.

 

Jedi do not have to be perfect, but they DO have to avoid using the force for selfish means, or for no reason atall. Like when Anakin used the force to steal padme's fruit and cut it for her. He said that if master obiwan saw him doing that he'd be very grumpy. Because that is an unnesesary(sp) use of his powers.

 

And again i will say that Yoda was not lying when he first met luke on Degobah. this is what happened

Luke: "Steal there's something familiar about this place.....i dont know, i feel like.."

Yoda: "Feel like what?"

*Luke spins and points his blaster at yoda's face*

Luke: "Like we're being watched"

*Yoda covers his face with his arms, a gesture of harmlessness*

Yoda: "Away put your weapon, i mean you no harm"

 

Yoda was not scared of luke, and he probably didn't figure that luke would shoot him. But the best way to get luke to lower his weapon would be to show him that he was just a harmless old creature.

This debate is stupid however, because I guarantee you that George Lucas himself would never say that Yoda joined the darkside....and i have proof from the movies themselves.

RotJ, at the end, yoda's spirit is sitting next to Ben and Anakin. There you go

[Woad]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

RotJ, at the end, yoda's spirit is sitting next to Ben and Anakin. There you go

 

Bingo.

[MotionMan]

LOL this dicusion is ridiculously simple to understnd.

The problem is that some people have their "own" theories as to how jedis behave or sith's behave or whatever and even though the facts are put in front of them they still stick to their beleifs.

Like the 100% Jedi Saints or the 100% Demon Siths...*sigh*

 

*And please Mez dont compare the Jedi to Spock(Vulcans) from star trek. Jedi are far from being like the vulcans.

[Norin Radd]

Hey, you have to love that Vulcan death grip.

 

". . .Oh, good morning Mr. Spo-. . ." THUNK!