How do you rate JKII?

[Prime]

They'll keep making them because people keep buying them hand over fist. I don't really play any other FPS, but as Kurgan said, doesn't the lightsaber and force powers already make this game one of the more unique FPSs? I mean, aren't most FPS just guns?

[Solo4114]

Having swords and magical powers is somewhat unique to FPS games, because usually you're shooting. That said, if you're gonna put lightsabres in, put frickin' lightsabres in, don't put glowing whifflebats in. I'm all for including lightsabres in the game, but if you're going to do it, you have GOT to take the time to do it right the FIRST time. 1.2 had basically zero collision detection with the sabres so you'd swing and swing and never block. Plus, you had the DFA, which was buggy and ended up being spammed to death. 1.3 removed the threat of the DFA, but left it powerful (you just left yourself open if you missed). It also bumped up the blocking, but at the same time, it left in the backstab, so the game boiled down to doing one move over and over again. 1.4 fixed the backstab, but nerfed the sabres to the point where it took quite a few hits to kill a guy. At the same time, if that guy's got a gun, he can probably shoot you at close range quite a few times while you're flailing away, trying to kill him. Sabres should've been absolutely lethal, with ALL moves taking only one or two hits to kill, and the real difference in stances being their ability to defend better or attack better when used against a different stance.

 

As for the force, well, again, the implementation of the powers was such that people would spam one or two powers (IE: pull/push, kick, throw, lightning, etc.). To me, the force is supposed to SUPPLEMENT sabre combat, not take over for it. In that sense, the game failed in its implementation of the licensed property on which it was based.

 

Basically they catered to the status quo which, while people are perfectly happy to shell out their cash for, gets REALLY old for a lot of us. There are plenty of people on here who are still vocal and still support the game and find it fun. I imagine that there are a great number of people who either became bored with the game, were pissed at the various changes made, etc. and left the game.

 

So, to conclude a rather long and rambling post (but you guys should be used to that from me, by now), yeah, the sabre and force made the game different from most FPS games, but not in any way that made it SUPERIOR. It was still the same method of combat (deathmatch or variations on that style), and while it loosely referenced the films, it didn't really do so in a way that was all that much fun after the initial novelty wore off. For me, at least.

[Kurgan]

Granted, the lightsaber is weaker than what is "realistic" in multiplayer (in SP its just about perfect.. the only people who can survive more than one direct hit have an official continuity supported reason.. ie: cortosis armor, heavy shields, etc) but there are still OPTIONS available to change that and the collision detection (ie: saberrealisticcombat for example).

 

The JK2 console and cfg files are very powerful, there is a lot you can do with the game right out of the box, and even after the patches. Now granted, the average player probably doesn't know a whole lot about 'em (especially if they haven't been exposed to any prior Q3 engine games), but the options are there and its not too hard to find out how to use them.

 

JK2 provides a TON of gameplay modes... though I grant you that about the only one that is novel to this game is Duel (some would say its just a Rocket Arena/Last Man Standing mod, but since most people play it with sabers only... its more like "Duel" mode in Rune:Halls of Valhalla).

 

Deathmatch is in every FPS game that has multiplayer, period.

 

Jedi Vs. Merc is a class based mod that can apply to any other game mode, but we've seen class based mods before in games like Half Life (team fortress classic) and mods like this have been made for just about every FPS game worth its salt anyway.

 

CTF is great fun but dates back to the days of Quake (of course its based on a real life game).

 

CTY is unique, but a mod of CTF after all.

 

Holocron FFA is a variation on Deathmatch, but its basically very similar to Runematch in the Quake series (especially Q3) and UT.

 

Lightsaber Only is unique, and the combat is far more complex than Rune, especially when you throw in Force Powers (which again, are far more complex than the Rune Powers in Rune).

 

Now, I admit, I would have liked to see more "different" gameplay modes, like some of the stuff that was proposed for Obi-Wan (Protect/Capture the Queen) and what we saw in MotS (KFY, and the player classes, there were four instead of just two).

 

More CTF maps would also have been great, as others have pointed out.

 

I am hoping that they do indeed make an expansion pack, and that they take a hint from MotS and go all out with it. I'm sure people who aren't happy with the game now, won't be won over by it, but it has the potential to remedy many of the oversights that those of us who do like the game, despite its few flaws, admit exist.

[Kurgan]

Case in point, I haven't heard one innovative feature in either Unreal2 or Doom3, yet both games are being hyped as the second coming of FPS games. Every few years the same thing happens... the biggest "feature" of the new game is the graphics and the AI.

 

Now don't get me wrong, sometimes you get stuff like the deformable architecture in Red Faction (then the game quickly disapeared from the scene), the "stealth" element in Thief (that wasn't really a "Shooter" to begin with though) and many people gush over the System Shock games (though I can't say 'cause I haven't played 'em). JK was innovative with its complex (up to that point they were all just glorified fists) melee combat and force system (with the dark/lightside and the path and experience system from single player).

 

JK2's force system in SP was less complex in that your powers were pre-set based on the game (though people have complained how "silly" it was to get extra force stars for finding all the secrets in a map in JK1) and you couldn't choose what powers you wanted to be improved, or light/darkside choices or turning to the darkside based on killing civies. But I like it because it still provides more variety than your average FPS game, and the Star Wars universe (which I enjoy anyway) helps it too.

 

I will give the game developers credit... it takes a lot of work to come up with a good single player campaign with a coherent story, interesting characters, fun secrets, puzzles that are difficult but not too frustrating, good scripted events, quality cutscenes as rewards and to continue the story, etc and levels with decent architecture, atmosphere and balance. All so that people can play and beat the game in a day and never play it again! ; )

 

And on top of that making MP balanced and fun, with enough features to keep people coming back, and putting up with all the problems of people complaining and cheaters trying to ruin it for everyone, its no wonder so many games fail or get delayed.

[Solo4114]

yeah, but really, I'd rather the game had been delayed for, say, three months, if they could've put in Saga gameplay. From what I understand, that was a gamplay mode where you played similar to RTCW, except that you played a SERIES of maps in which your actions on the last map would affect the progression of maps or how you'd play in the next map. Again, that's just my understanding based on some things I've read in here, so it may be utter horsecrap.

 

As for Unreal2, Doom3, etc. people will always be wooed at first by flashy graphics and improved AI, and indeed, that does help an SP game. I actually quite enjoyed the SP game here, because I felt that it reasonably captured the Star Wars experience. Also, as you got further along, the guns (which I still have a bit of a problem with) became less emphasized, and your use of force powers became more emphasized. Where the game broke down for me was the fact that a.) you can only replay Single Player so many times before you get bored and b.) when that happens and you turn to MP, the experience REALLY left something to be desired.

 

As for all games including DM style gameplay, that's not strictly true (RTCW out of the box didn't have this style originally -- I don't know if they ever released an expansion pack for that, but I'd heard somewhere that they did and added a game mode). That's not really the issue, though. All games release DM because, if all else fails, they know that people will still play it. But some games really support other modes like CTF. While CTF isn't all that innovative, nor are class based mods, it's really the way they go about implementing them that can be (IE: if Saga gameplay worked the way I described above, THAT would be REALLY innovative). Even so, if this game had not been that innovative, but had actively supported other gamestyles than DM more than they did (IE: more CTF/CTY support), it would've been much more fun for me. I'd still consider an expansion pack if they released one, but I'd be VERY wary about it and would wait probably a few months before buying it, to see if it was taking off, what people here said about it, etc.

 

See, that's the other thing. I don't trust gaming magazines or online publications anymore. I used to, but now it seems that they just hype up whatever game has been hyped already, and dump praise all over it. BF1942 is a great example. That game received it's fair share of hype prior to release, and when it was released, the reviewers glowed about how great it was that you could drive tanks and fly planes in an FPS. They also really glossed over some MAJOR problems with the game, pre-patching. It wasn't until 1.2 came out that I even bought the game, because I didn't trust that things would be fixed and I read between the lines when it came to the reviews. Plus, how good can a review be when you've only had a week to play the game? You'll get someone's intense first impression, but dammit, after shelling out my $40+, I want a game that I can play for at least a YEAR, not just a week. Jedi Outcast, once I finished the SP game, kept me hanging on for about a month or two before I became bored and fed up with it. Then 1.3 came out, I saw the fixes and was happy, until people discovered the exploit of the backstab, so I quit again after playing for a month. Then 1.4 came out, and I came back, only to find that the sabres were nerfed, and regardless, the underlying game modes were still boring old DM when you got down to it, so I left again (permanently) in about three weeks. That's not very good longevity in my book.

[Kurgan]

That reminds me, I should play that Saga map, it looks cool.

 

I enjoyed MP far more than SP, mainly because the non-Saber play and the puzzles left much to be desired. The atmosphere was GREAT don't get me wrong, and I loved the storyline (despite what some have claimed about it being a ripoff of I, Jedi... at least it seemed to leave out some of the goofier ideas from that book) and characters.

 

Second of all the Force system in MP was far more complex and interesting, with the powers playing off each other, though I could have lived without the level of "nerfing" of drain and heal, but I guess Raven knows best...

 

Why didn't we get an automap in SP? Why did the IR goggles "suck" (for lack of a better word), and why didn't we get to use Seeing? Maybe it would have made the game easier, but I think they could have done it right... oh well.

 

SP was great for the recreational RPGer in me, MP was great for the action-gamer in me. Great game. Not perfect, but great.