Sithmaster_821 Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 There is much talk going on about swgb2 and/or another upcoming Star Wars RTS. Most people talk about what units should be added to the game. But when they do post, they generally think only in generic units. However I think that unique unit sets are a much more viable option. The pros and cons: Generic units Examples- AoE, AoK, RoN, SWGB(sorta) Everyone has the same units, with various UU being the exception. Diversity is indroduced through disabling units and techs. Pros: Takes up little space, and isnt very expensive/time consuming Cons: To much similarity between civs, realism infringements (see any of Darth Windus threads), and forced units(gungan air). Also, if all units look the same, then alot of the unique feeling of playing from civ to civ is lost. Unique Units-Warcraft 3, Starcraft, AoM(sorta) Everyone has different units, with different arts, prices, abilities, stats, etc. Some units may share the same purpose, like spearmen, hoplites, and ulfsarks in AoM. Pros: Diversity, and equal balance between gameplay and realism, no forced units or similar feel. Cons:Alot of RAM is taken up (especially with 8 civs) which could spell trouble for already big games, small games, and lower end comps. Also is a bit costly and very time-consuming(imagine balncing 8 unit sets) Comprimises The SWGB approach-Keep generic units but make different art. Pros: more unique feel. Cons: All the other bigger problems with generic units still stay, and maybe are even bigger. The AoM approach-Divide 3 unit sets amongst 9 civs(or 2 amongst 4, etc.) Pros:Smaller and alot easier to do while retaining all of the pros from unique unit sets. Cons:Doesnt work for Star Wars universe. There is no concievable unit sets that can be divided up amongst individual and warring factions. Its up to you to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 It should definately be unique unit sets IMO. Maybe then Windu will finally shut up, and we wont have to hear any more of his Gunship drivel. About the RAM issue, RAM is easy to upgrade, and for those who have low-end computers, well they should just get new ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 Yeah, shutting up windu would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Why not keeping the generic set and make the units different? For example: Rebel Trooper: Low armor, more hit points, lower attack,faster speed. Stormtrooper: Higher armor, lower hit points, higher attack, slower speed. These changes can be easily made and does'nt take to much time or demands to much from your computer. But then LA can take his time for making a sequel and shutting up windu is a very nice idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 3, 2002 Author Share Posted September 3, 2002 Umm..luke that is pretty much unique unit sets with similar purposes:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 There is another sort of compramise. Have unique unit sets for things like AT-TE, AT-AT type weapons, but generic units sets for infantry (every one has infantry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 3, 2002 Author Share Posted September 3, 2002 But windu as you pointed out yourself, everyone's infantry is different. SBD's arent nerly strong enough and the BD is too expensive. Also, i think that most unit art that were forced (alot of units fit in this column), should be deleted in favor of other more relateable units. Those that are nessassry for balance purposes should be kept. Remember that with unique unit sets, the purpose of units likened to each other in SWGB does not need to stay the same. Think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 4, 2002 Author Share Posted September 4, 2002 Bump-didilly-ump-ump-ump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 What i mean with the infantry is that for all intents and purpose's, infantry are the same. Of course there are minor differences in firepower, armour etc, but i think it would be best to work off a generic set for units such as infantry. (although complete unique sets would be better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 4, 2002 Author Share Posted September 4, 2002 I will agree that standard blaster troopers share the same purpose, but once you start branching out, there are some forced units, and units that were clumped together that have very different purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 I agree with getting rid of forced units but only the not useful ones(geez gungan fighters What the....!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 8, 2002 Author Share Posted September 8, 2002 I know and its worse that theyre dinosaurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 they look a lot like the think we saw flying on Kamino, I wonder if they are the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 Doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 I think they look almost the same. I should check it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 I think generic. That's what's amazing about Star Wars - although each army is so different, they are also so the same. Don't get me wrong, I also love those unique unit set games. But I think generic suits a Star Wars game better, especially the way they've done it in SWGB (though Republic should have better heavy weapons ). On the Gungan Fighter issue: Yes, you did see the creature on Kamino. Originally that particular creature (now known as the aiwha) was designed for Empire Strikes Back to be a creature flying through the clouds of Bespin, with people riding them like we've seen. However, they proved to look too crap with 80's technology, so they were scrapped. Then, when the Phantom Menace was made, the Aiwha was suggested as a flying mount for Gungans, to be used in the Grass Plains Battle. This was also cut, probably because it was a bit silly. However, like several other scrapped concept designs, the Aiwha made an appearance in SWGB (the upgraded Naboo Starfighter and upgraded Trade Fed starfighter are also scrapped concept art). Finally with Attack of the Clones, the aiwha made an appearance, this time ridden by a Kaminoan. I think it looks more at home in the water then soaring through pink clouds or launching attacks on battle droids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 Ok, you got me. That was really intresting though. Admiral, although different civs units fill similar purposes, I think that unique unit sets fit the Star wars universe better because of the unique capabilities of each individual unit and the completely different ways each civ would play. Also, you can eliminate a lot of the units that made the game seem a little too much like the Medival ages and not like star wars (ie pummels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Not only pummels. Think about the cannons and the artillery?! What kind of beam is that? Should'nt they fire real laser beams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I see your point Sithmaster, and I tend to agree. I think if they do make a SWGB 2 they should get rid of pummels, cannons, air cruisers and half of the boats. There is just nothing that resembles them in the movies. Artillery is still important though, otherwise the Gungans wouldn't have a catapult. Although it could be made a second UU, but I'm not in favour of lots of unique units. I think the Republic Artillery is all wrong, as lukeiamyourdad pointed out, because it's against what we saw in the movies. Anyway, I still am an advocate for generic units. If each civ had unique sets, the game would be too huge and we'd see a return to simply Rebel vs Empire, or perhaps only Republic vs Confederacy, which I for one would not like. However, the main problem with generic sets at the moment is, as has been mentioned, the existence of units that don't fit, like Naboo Assault Mechs, Gungan Bombers, etc. For those who have played AoK, from which the engine was taken for SWGB, and particularly AoC expansion, I think the answer is obvious. In AoC, the "New World" civilisations weren't able to build cavalry. Many other civilisations were unable to build gunpowder units. I think if a unit doesn't fit, it should not be available, just like in AoK. And also get rid of pummels, cannons, air cruisers, sea cruisers, destroyers and anything else that just doesn't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 What i would say in altering units would be- -delete all naval units, make 'bongo' gungan UU -delete canon -give artillery canon range -delete pummels -give anti-air units ability to defend themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 1. then the gungans would be able to own any map that had the tiniest bit of water. 2. I personally think, with a little art and funtion tweaking the cannon should stay in the game 3. Why? 4. Pummels seem to much like rams but an melee building destroyer is nessecary 5. That way windu dosnt have to group his units and have his aa sit around and do nothing while his blob attacks aimlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Have certain generic things like everyone has a Mech Factory, a troop center and a dock. Then Make only rebels, Naboo and Repbulic have jedi factories and air centres. Rebels can have Bwings etc. Then make TF + Empire + wookies have Hvy weapons etc. This would be really cool. But preety hard to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 Not really, the civs would be different but equal, much like in the games named as examples under unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I dunno man... It is a little...well...I dunno...maybe hard to balance...or simply it would not give anybody else the ability to build hvy weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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