WIP: Ulic Qel Droma Saber

[Scotchy]

I don't see to many WIP: Saber threads here. I suppose it could be because they are not as anticipated as player models, but I decided that these needed a little community help to finish up.

 

SCREENIES LATER IN THREAD (SCROLL DOWN )

 

I'm practically new to game modeling. I've tinkered around for years but never really gotten into anything heavy-duty. Well, now I'm a Digital Media student concentrationg in Visualization (Modeling and Animation) and I want to get a jump on the courses I won't have to take for another year or so. I figured that weapon modeling had to be one of the easiest types of JK2 models to make, so I decided to do an EU saber that hadn't been done yet. Good practice, right?

 

Now, for the "please help me" part:

• I'm not sure of the ideal poly count for a saber model... that's why the above models range from 828 to 1200 polies. If someone could let me know, I would appreciate it much.
  
• I'm using Gmax right now (getting MAX 4 or 5 soon), and I have read some nice tutorials on the matter and have downloaded the .md3 importer/exporter. If you know of any other saber/weapon making tutorial than the one listed in the NEW TO THE FORUMS thread, please point me to it.
  
• As you can see above, the sabers are not yet textured. UVW Mapping in Gmax (at least doing it how that blasted tutorial instructs) is a royal pain. If there is any way I can UVW Map only certain sections at a time for a bit less eye and memory strain, PLEASE let me know.
  
• I only have ONE reference pic. If you can find more, I would be so happy.
  
• Aren't sabers supposed to have 2 tags; one for the blade and another for the hand? The tutorial listed in the NEW TO THE FORUM thread only speaks of one.
  
• Kind of unrelated, but does anyone know how to create a decent brushed metal look using Photoshop 7? I'm tryign out all the filter combos I can think of and I'm not having good results.
  

 

Thanks for any help, and I'll try to keep you updated... assuing anybody cares.

[SettingShadow]

Really nice sabers. I cant help you tough (I know nothing about modeling)

[Psynex]

There's a heap of questions! Let's see if I can help you out. But I think most of it needs to be taken one step at a time, so my answers may seem brief.

 

Ideal poly count - I'm not really sure either...to me, more then 500 is kind of high. Only because I never play with a saber in first person to see that much detail. above 1000 is really high. 828 isn't toooooo bad, but you should try and cut that down to at least 700.

 

There is a tut for saber making in Milkshape that had no more pointers then the gmax tutorial (at least in my eyes it didn't). But you could probably take a look at it anyway.

 

You can texture sections of the model at a time, but I don't have the time right now to explaing how. I have to scarf down my lunch and head to class in 20 mins.

 

reference pics I can't help with.

 

There are 2 tags in the original saber file. one tag_flash and one tag_parent. Flash is where the blade is emitted from, parent is where the hand meets the saber. Only the blade one seems to matter though. It will still work in game without parent.

 

Brushe metal basic (really basic). bottom layer, make a gradient of dark grey to light grey. Layer above that, using black and white as your two colors use a noise filter in monochrome. Then use a motion blur filter on it, and change it's transparencey/blending options until you get a metal quality you're looking for.

 

 

hope this helps out at least a little bit. I'll be around later on.

[-s/<itzo-]

scotchy check out this site click here . it should have some pics of ulic and his saber. hope it helps you.

[Scotchy]

Thanks guys. I'll try sketching a few concepts to see if I can get a better idea of the shape before I remodel the next one. I'll try t ocut the poly count down a bit, but for the sake of quality, I might not cut it down too much.

[Meat_Puppet]

Meat Puppet would like to skin saber.......Saber to high poly, which scare meat puppet. No reason why saber should be over 300 polys. Meat puppet say "Learn to optomize and good modeler you become"

[Scotchy]

I liek your angle meato... like it alot. As far as the saber thing goes... kyle's saber is 500+ polies... so I reason that other sabers that have been made by the public at large are usually a few more than that. I'll try for 700 or less, though.

 

Personally, I've always been a fan of heavy geometry with a light skin. While a good skin can do wonders for the look of a model... in reality there are no 'skins', just 'models'. I realize that the quake3 engine is limited... so I'll do my best to compromise between detail and function.

[Gram_Reaper]

I was working on an Ulic saber. But the guy that wanted to skin it still hasnt sent it back. Yours looks pretty good though. nice job on the generic sabers.

[Psynex]

Gram_reaper - He never sent it back!? What kind of a statement is that. You should never send the only file away to someone you don't know for reasons just like that. You always make a copy. Oi, I am sorry for you and hope you have learned a valuable lesson.

 

anyway, on to bigger and better things like trying to explain how to map sections of the saber at a time. Start by applying a checkered texture map to the whole mesh.

 

1) in sub-object mode, select the group of faces you want to layout first.

2) apply a uvw map modifier and select a type (usually safe to stick with cylinder or planar map).

3) apply a uvw unwrap modifier and click the edit button. You'll only see the unwrapped faces you selected.

 

If you notice near the bottom of the texture mapping window there's a button with a red triangle. If you also click the plus sign next to the uvw unwrap modifier in the stack, there's a select faces sub-object mode. If you select that option under the uvw Unwrap, and click the red triangle in the texture mapping window, Only faces you select in a viewport will show in the texture mapping window. You'll see them appear as you select them.

 

4) Iron out any distorion in the checkered map. Then take the entire selection of vertexes and move them off of the stage area somewhere to the left, right, top, bottom, etc...

 

5) Collapse the stack back down to an editable mesh to lock in those maps.

 

6) Select a new set of faces and follow the same steps you just did until the rest of the mesh is mapped.

 

7) Once it's all mapped and you've returned back to an editable mesh, apply one final uvw unwrap modifier. We don't need map anymore because it's already been done.

 

You'll see all of your different mapped sections scattered around the staging area. Now just select those different sections and arrange them nicely into that staging square. Viola! You've made a skinmap.

 

It's hard to follow without pics I think. I downloaded a video on it and learned that way. Good video too, it's sped up for size and time, but you can pause and rewind and replay until you understand it all.

 

Good luck.

[Scotchy]

Thanks Psynex, I figured that was what "collapsing the stack" meant. I'll go look for that d/leable video you we're talking about. I discovered the "filter selected faces" button last night and that was a big help. I modeled a VERY simple saber (8 sided cylinder... like 30+ polies) and after battlign with md3view and my general tag alignment, I finally got it in-game. My skin actually took the most time to do... but it made the "rod-saber" look much more detailed.

 

I found out something odd... If I open md3view and then go to File > Open the whole process of converting to a .glm is useless. I have to double click on the .md3 I wish to open in order for it to work properly. Anyone else had this problem?

 

Oh and Psynex, If you could point me in the general direction of that d/leable vid, I would be very thankful.

[Meat_Puppet]

Meat puppet say you DONT HAVE TO collapse stack. MEat puppet just adds Edit mesh modifer. Which act the same as collapsing the stack.

 

downloadable vid for putting sabers in game?

[Psynex]

double click the md3 huh? I'll have to mess with that one. I've had my saber hilt finished for a while now with a small amount of editing to go on the skin, but can't get the blasted skin to adhear to the glm so in game it has a default grey and white skin map. Looks very similar to what you would see if a bird were to have $hyte on it! So if ya got any pointers on that I'd be gracious. Md3view yells at me when I try to load the skin saying the path it couldn't find the skin. My skin file points right to it, and the error even displays the correct path. I hate it!

 

Also, I have to look the link up for that video tutorial. And it's not a video tutorial for getting a saber in game, but how to skin map using that method I described above. And yes, right-clicking and selecting editable mesh will do the same as collapsing the stack, it was just the way I decided to describe that step at the time.

[Meat_Puppet]

meat puppet say all files must be in gamebata/base/models/weapons2/saber

 

EVERYTHING

[Psynex]

LOL. I new I just recently saw a link for that video tutorial, and wouldn't you know it was right here in this very forum. Just click here. It's top quality. You need a Techsmith codec installed to view it though.

 

During creation the files don't have to be in that path to compile it fine as long as the resulting files are all placed in that saber directory. I've done it before. I had a different skin applied without even having a skin for it to look up. I ignored the error and the result worked because the glm had the path to the final skin with it. I don't know why I can't get it to work now.

[Scotchy]

I always start from the base file and make a mimic file structure.

 

Example:

 

C:\My Documents\My Models\Ulic Saber\base\models\weapons2\saber\

 

...and I put all the pertinent files there (saber_w.md3, saber.jpg, saber_w.skin, saber_w.glm).

 

Just in case I wasn't all too clear: Whenever I open the md3view.exe and attempt to load a .md3 file from within the program, the whole process is screwed... I can't load a .skin or export a .glm. HOWEVER, If I simply open the .md3 file in question by double-clicking it (this of course requires that windows assosciates .md3 extensions with md3view.exe) everything works fine. I suppose because it can backtrack all the way to the \base\ folder everything works out fine.

 

Question: do most people ACTUALLY USE winzip to make .pk3's?!?! I use PakScape... it's much easier to use (It mimics Windows Explorer)... you can get it from the Valve Editing Resource Center.... or just follow THIS link and download it directly.

 

EDIT:

 

Since I didn't think this question warranted an entirely new thread, I'll post it here.

 

Is there any way to specify where the other blade comes out (for \THEDESTROYER or JediMOD/JediPLUS)? Is it a new tag I have to create, or is it simply a fixed length away in the opposite direction of tag_flash? If so, what is the length?

[Psynex]

I wish we had more control over that second blade emission. But the answer for your Q is no. It's calculated in code. I tried making a saber claw (like wolverine from x-men), thinking I could trick the engin into using duplicate tags with the same name to emit more then one blade, but sadly only the originally created tag had a blade.

 

Now, if you'd like to contact mod makers for say jediplus, and ask them for a feature that will allow saber makers to add tags in sequential order (tag_flash01, tag_flash02, tag_flash03, etc...) up to a certain limit number then maybe we'd have more saber mods in the WIP section. It would give us all more design options. One thing me and my friends figured though is that each blade might count for damage so the author would have to make the other blades dummy blades.

[PalnGipanji]

Unless the skin is successfully loaded in MD3View, then it won't save the skin path in the glm, which is why it won't stick to the model no matter what paths you have set. I really don't know how you're still having a problem with that, Psynex, but weirder things have happened.

 

Also, I'd really advise against putting everything in base/models/weapons2/saber... everyone at this point knows about JediMod v1.2 or JediPLUS enough to be able to use those mods to select saber hilts. The most annoying thing is replacing in-game models, especially when it's unnecessary. So, if you do plan to replace the default saber hilt, at least offer a Mod Compatible version, stored in base/models/weapons2/saber_sabername.

 

One more thing... as long as your model has under 1000 UVs, you're fine. Don't worry about everyone coming down on polycount... if you need those polys, then use them. Everyone else can choose whether or not to use it or download it. Besides, it's not like everyone on a given server is going to use the same hilt. I just don't see the point in whining about poly counts, especially when the game itself has a pre-existing limit. Use 'em if you got 'em!

[Scotchy]

Thanks PalnGipanji,

 

I AM planning on making it mod compatible... I just set it up with the default saber path so I can test it in SP (where I can actually use first person w/ saber).

 

UPDATE TIME:

 

I've temporarily culled the Generic Old Sabers. Thanks to the reference material LBuRNa hooked me up with, I've decided to also make Ulic's "Outcast" Saber. The Outcast Saber is in the final stages of uvw mapping and skinning. It's exactly 643 polies and works fine in-game. Here are some Pics:

 

WIP: Ulic Qel-Droma Outcast Saber

Pic 1

Pic 2

 

I'll try to have the first saber in-game tonight.

[Psynex]

Hmmm...maybe I'll try using a mod compatible directory structure to compile the GLM saber instead of the default. Should I create it in C:\Program Files\Lucasarts\... the full game path? Or shouldn't it make a difference? Also, does md3view need to be in that folder with the files? Because that tid-bit was being thrown around the forum somewhere.

[Scotchy]

Just so long as you start with \base\ it doesn't matter where it is.

I'm running WinXP... if that makes a difference. About the md3view.exe location... it needs to be in *default install path*\Gamedata\Tools\ to work at all.

[-s/<itzo-]

glad to hear that my reference pics helped you. anyways its lookin good. can't wait till you begin skinning it.

 

 

i got question, how do you turn saber hilts that you download from the internet into mod compatible??????

[Gram_Reaper]

no you misunderstood, i have a copy. Im just a horrible skinner. I still have the model but the thread died due to 0 respones. Sorry for the misunderstanding

[Psynex]

ok, I give up!! I didn't have the tools folder in my Gamedata folder and all the tools still worked just fine, so I moved the Tools folder into Gamedata. Then I decided to move all files out of the main base directory as not to cause any other issues. So here's my current file set up:

 

C:\Documents and Settings\psynex\My Documents\3D\base\models\weapons2\saber

 

That's where all my files are

saber.jpg (512x512, 8-bit)

saber_w.skin

(w_saber, /base/models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg)

saber_w.md3 (which does have the saber geometry named w_saber to coincide with the skin file)

saber_w.glm (rather the glm it gave me with a crap skin)

 

The error I get from md3view is this: "texture /base/models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg" not found

 

 

now you tell me what the hell is wrong. It seems like everything is in proper order. If I ignore the error, the skin still doesn't show up.

[Scotchy]

saber_w.skin

(w_saber, /base/models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg)

 

That is what's wrong... remove the /base area. Correctly, the .skin file should be set up as:

 

w_saber,models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg

 

And that's a direct quote. I actually had trouble getting a revamped version of the first saber in-game last night. I looked at the .pk3 I had made and immediately realised the problem... I had zipped it up with a base\ folder inside.

 

You see, when makign anything that needs to be zipped into a .pk3, the game assumes that the directory that the .pk3 will be placed under will be in between the first order of folders in the .pk3 (i.e.:models or gfx) and the \GameData folder (i.e.: base or jedimod). This kind of applies to just about everything else in the game... the game expects that directories like models or gfx to be somewhere in the 'in between' area. Example: ...gamedata\<foldername>\models\...

 

Think of it this way; the assets0.pk3 is just an extra step in a simple folder layout. Let me example this. [note: underlined objects are double-clicked or non-directory objects (i.e.: not folders but files). Parenthesis enclose the file structure of the .pk3.]

 

C:\Program Files\LucasArts\Star Wars JK II Jedi Outcast\GameData\base\assets0.pk3 (models\weapons2\saber\saber_w.glm)

 

To the game , the above is roughly understood as this:

 

C:\Program Files\LucasArts\Star Wars JK II Jedi Outcast\GameData\base\models\weapons2\saber\saber_w.glm

 

The .pk3 file itself would not necessarily be a whole new directory but a way of compressing the 'assets', as it were, for better HD space manageament. If the assets0.pk3 were a step in the above file address, it would probably be somewhere in the red slash above.

 

I hope that helped a bit. If I got wordy forgive me but I actually talk like that. Kind of unnecessary.

 

Psynex: I apologize if it looks like I'm assuming you know little here; I'm not, believe me. If you can model and skin, then you understand directory structires. I just felt like explaining it. Maybe I'll ask KMan to add this post to the sticky to help people who don't understand .pk3 files.

 

.::[EDIT]::.

Oh and Psynex... maybe you should just uninstall the game and start from scratch. Backup all your savegames and .pk3's that are not backed up already and start fresh. Install the game "Automatically" so it will be installed in it's default install path. THEN install your tools to the ...gamedata\tools\... directory and you should be alright. I did it a few weeks ago and it saved me so much clutter and confusion.

[PalnGipanji]

Psynex... I wish you'd said that earlier about your saber skin path. Scotchy is correct about what the skin path should be.

 

Here's what I have...

 

Starting from:

E:\Program Files\Lucasarts\

 

Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast\ <-- Game Directory

JK2Mods\ <-- all of my downloaded pk3s (acts as backup)

JK2EditingTools\ <-- the directory that holds my toolkit

 

from:

E:\Program Files\Lucasarts\JK2EditingTools\

 

base\ <-- the beginning of the file structure meant to mimic the GameData\base folder ( my WIPs are stored in this structure under models\weapons2\saber_sabername)

 

tools\ <-- all my tools (modview, md3view, etc)

 

So basically, it doesn't matter what directory you install the game or toolkit to, just as long as your WIPs are found in your toolkit directory structure. I hope that clears up any confusion about proper WIP placement.

 

On a different note, there was mentioned something about the tag_flash and tag_parent. tag_parent has no apparent use whatsoever, or at least, I haven't noticed its use yet. The position of the saber in a model's hands is determined by:

 

a) the saber locater on the skeleton that drives the model (basically, the model should be made so that the hand would arrive at the same position that the saber is connected to the skeleton)

 

b) the saber's orientation to the origin in your 3D modeling program. If you move the saber away from the axis origin, then it will also be displaced in the game, no matter where tag_parent is, or if you even have one at all. I wouldn't bother using it, but to each his/her own.