Guest darthjustin69 Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 plus personification means to add human characteristics to an animal or something other than human. The whole "personification" jsut dosent fit into waht your saying!!! ------------------ ... "You are no match for me weak Jedi" DARK LORD OF THE SITH MASTER Sith Order Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Calypso Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 ouch, i take it back, there is no hope for the sith as a whole, perhaps a few will salvage themselves after the order tears itself apart, but it looks dim right now ------------------ The Un-Council's Disgruntled Bounty Hunter -Calypso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Kanigget Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Again, let me repeat: I am not offended by what you say, Darth_Simpson. Let me ask you a question. Do you realize that quite a bit of what science portrays to be true has never actually been seen? Take evolution for example. No one has actually seen evolution happen, yet it is in the text books and taught in schools worldwide. The general population of scientists believe evolution to be the origins of life, YET NO ONE HAS SEEN IT HAPPEN. My point, seeing is no always believing, and religion is not the only thing that believes in things that cannot be seen. On believing things that were written a long time ago.(The New Testament was written almost 2,000 years ago, the Old Testament long before) Do you automatically dismiss anything that was written long ago? If your answer is "no", why do you dismiss the Bible? Because it's religious? Do you dismiss Newton's theory on gravity and physics simply because it is old? Should, in the future, scientists discard Einstein's works, because it is old? If it's been disproven, that's another thing, but it would not make sense to say something is not true simply because it is old. On your comment on the Ten Commandments, you said "About the 10 stone plates God supposedly gave Moses. One of them said 'Thou shall not steal'. Can you honestly tell me that EVERY Christian do not steal. Justan example of a rule that dont work very well. By saying this I do not mean that every Christian is a thief, only that there is exceptions to EVERY rule ever made." You're right, I cannot honestly say that every Christian does not steal. Or for that matter, swear, kill, have pre-marital or extra-marital sex, lie, covet, cheat, goes to church every Sunday, etc. The fact is, Christians are not perfect, and we do not say we are. IF someone claims to be Christian and says he or she is perfect, he or she is LYING. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us..." Christians cannot keep any of the rules God has made perfectly, that's where Jesus comes in. But I won't go into that now. My points to all this: One: DO NOT dismiss something simply because it is old. Or because it can't be seen or proven. Two: Christians do not claim to be perfect, or at least, they shouldn't. If one does, that one is lying. ------------------ Darth Wart's Strategy Guide in a friendly, easy to use form!(Sorry, that was bad.) http://JediPowerBattlesGuide.homestead.com/JPB.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth_Simpson Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Well, I do NOT dismiss anything simply because it is old. I dismiss Christianity because i do not believe in something I have never seem work. I havent seen God work, but I have seen Newtons laws work. I simply dismiss Christianity because I havent seen it work, and then it makes no sense to me why I should believe in it. And with the evolution,its true that nobody has never seen it, but we have proof that it happens. And do you really dismiss all the proof of dinosaurs just because God supposedly created the world in 7 days. Come on, we have so much knowledge about how the world was really created, and you someone caomes up with a fictional character, and then he suddenly creates the world instead? This was ok a long time ago, when we didnt have this knowledge, but then Darwin came along ang changed all that. I believe it is time to let go of the religions and accept the world as it was really created. And yes, it can be done. Once, man believed the earth was flat, but now everyone knows it is not. Why should we then listen to something that is NOT true? ------------------ Hunger leads to donuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth_Simpson Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Jedi Calypso : I do like the topic CHURCH because I like discussing with people who has different views than me. Hope thats not a problem for you? ------------------ Hunger leads to donuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Kanigget Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 I, nor does most of Christianity, dismiss the existence of dinosaurs. In fact, they are mentioned in the Bible. Hate to get technical, but the world was created in six days, not seven. There is very little proof that evolution happens, it is mostly theory based on speculation. And there is a fundimental LAW that disproves evolution's THEORY. It's called the Second Law of Thermal Dynamics or Entropy: Matter and energy go from organization to disorganization. I would like to debate this more, but I am late for work. I shall return. ------------------ Darth Wart's Strategy Guide in a friendly, easy to use form!(Sorry, that was bad.) http://JediPowerBattlesGuide.homestead.com/JPB.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Calypso Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 no, i dont have a problem with that, and im sorry if i offended you with that post, ive kept an eye on you, and you seem like a really funny person. [just looking at your quote, thats great!] i, as well as many other christians, do not dismiss you as a bad person just because you dont see the world the same way. i believe in GOD, because i have seen HIS work, HE has done wonderfull things for me. sometimes, when things get rough, i may have doubts, but i think that every christian has had thier doubts at one time or another. maybe your eyes will bw opened, maybe not, but in the meantime all i, or any other christian for that matter, can do do is say a prayer for you. keep in mind, i am in no way critcising you, you can believe what you want, i just felt you should hear my side, i hope we can get along and share some laughs about the simpsons and such, untill our paths cross again, darth simpson, may the force be with you ------------------ The Un-Council's Disgruntled Bounty Hunter -Calypso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest porkins Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 woah! it looks like some of us are a little grumpy and need to eat some food! ------------------ Jedi Uncouncil Fata$$, Lord of Disgusting Bodily Functions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Calypso Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 [by the way, thats about as serious as i get] im sorry you all had to see me like that, i appologise, but i accually tend to make sence about once or twice a week, thats takes care of this week, so i should be good for a few days ------------------ The Un-Council's Disgruntled Bounty Hunter -Calypso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth Sidious Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Movies are but metaphors on life... Religions are yet metaphors on the struggle of good and evil... ------------------ Dark Lord of the Sith "Wipe them out...All of them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 84Elan Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 I have just finished reading everyones point of view. I too have raised many of the same questions that where brought up here I myself was brought up as a christian and went to chistian church school for 8 of my 12 years of school before collage. The way I see it is that religion is all in the eye of the beholder much like every thing else in this world is. What one person likes another hates and so forth and so on. I myself am not total sold on the whole God thing although you can not say that there is or was never a Jesus that did some wild things like miricals; Due to the fact that it is documented in Roman and I beleive Egyptian texts that a man named jesus did walk the earth and do some nuts stuff. Yet I can not see giving God credit for things that you as an idividual do. I mean some one has something good happen in there life ie. Jeff Gordon wins a race (for example there are other people but this one comes to mind fist i know i am going to get Flak for that) but he or they always thanks God. Why? Was God in the car on the radio saying Jeff let go of your feelings let go and pass Earnhart on the outside. I think not. He did it himself with the help of his team and engine builders .He might thank God for putting him on this earth or something but other than that I think that we are pretty much on our own. Other folks see it different but we are not all going to see eye to eye except when it comes to jedi power battles and the argument is that Plo Koon is the best jedi for Battleing Maul.. NOT!!!!!!! Peace out Gents; I relize the irony of me writing this piece after all of my posts dissing this board for non JPB material but this one does have some substance too it. ------------------ Remember...Your Focus Determins your Reality.... [This message has been edited by 84Elan (edited May 02, 2000).] [This message has been edited by 84Elan (edited May 02, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest COW Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 right ------------------ Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liquidkid Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 well, i didnt read all the posts up in this n-otch cuz i'm just lazy enough, so i dont know if this has already been said... but i'm going to contribute anyway. in highschool i had a teacher that showed us a big special called "blah mythology blah blah" or something like that. point is there was a huge segment with some guy (i have such a good grasp of all the details)talking with george lucas about the mythology in starwars. (yeah i know. i cant believe my teacher showed us this either. i think it was my junior year of highschool in my honors english class. oh, by the way... it was a jesuit (catholic) school! ha ha!!! anyway, i digress) so uh... oh yeah george was saying about how he definately threw many religious elements into the star wars saga. but not just christianity. he took fundamental elements from other religions too. he said he did it all on purpose. that he wanted people, especially kids to ... hmm... now i cant remember exactly how he said it... and i dont want to give everyone a false quote from george. it was something like he wanted people to ... oh i just dont know... not "be more religious" ... but something like that. not as drastic though. ... he didnt want people to lose religion... he wanted to introduce it to younger people... oh i dont know... leave me alone. u get my point. good? great. oh, and up above... i was totally lieing about one thing.... i'm totally lazy enough. lazier. much much laz.. ------------------ LiQUiDKiD -UNcouncil Master of Insults, Supreme Chancelor's Hitman, All Around Bully. P.L.U.R. <> J9K-4-LIFE <> JEDI-4-LIFE <> MCL [This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited May 08, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jedihorn1 Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Hey all, I have been reading everyones posts. I have just a few things to say that may clear some things up. 1. Evolution is a THEORY. A THEORY is just that. It has not been proven yet. If it had it wouldnt be a theory, it would be fact. 2. to just re-itterate what Jedi Kanaggit said. Christians are NOT perfect. We mess up everyday, but it is by God's grace and the blood of Jesus, who died as a sacrifice for all, that we are Forgiven and our sin is forgotten. 3. I once thought as Darth Simpson did. I had never seen God move before, but He did in my life. As an example on how God moves. I was a voulenteer Chaplin for a prison. i have seen convited felons, all over 260 pounds of muscle collapse into my arms, crying and saying that they were sorrry for the wrong they had done. Having a 260 lb dude nammed Bubba repent and ask God to forgive him tends to show that God does move. one more, probably the best. This guy was an 18 yr old Athiest. He was a drug dealer and addict. He murdered someone and got sent to jail. He got saved and felt called to preach. the prosecuting attorney was trying to get him an exicution sentence. to make a long story short, he ended up only serving 8 1/2 years and is now the Pastor of one of the biggest Churches in the US. God moves and He forgives. I hope and pray that if anyone is readingthis and doesnt believe, that God would move in their hearts. He is real. He completly changed my life and the lives of some of my closest and most loved friends. He can do the same to you. Yes there are rules, but they are not impossibble to follow, and when you do mess up, God forgives and loves you anyway. ----------------- There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, only knowledge. There is no passion, there is serinity. There is no death, there is the Force. (GOD)-Jedi Code [This message has been edited by jedihorn1 (edited May 07, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liquidkid Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liquidkid Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 maude does not appear, as she has become one with the force. [This message has been edited by liquidkid (edited May 02, 2000).] [This message has been edited by liquidkid (edited May 02, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShadeShifter Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 JediHorn is correct. Evolution is just a theory. Yes scientist have made fossil discoveries, but there are gaps (large gaps) in the fossil record. Scientists take these fossils and then speculate on how they might evolve. More than not, they leave out the possibility that this might have been a distinct creature. I, too, have seen God work in a persons life besides my own. I was a summer missionary to California this past summer. While there, I met a group of student that were going to Paris as missionaries for a month. One weekend this group and several others went to the beach. One girl in the group got caught in a rip tide, and while under she hit her head on the ocean floor. When they brought her up, she was blue. The rushed her to the hospital. While there, the doctor said that she would have to stay in the hospital for several days and that she would have to have to wait even longer to go to Paris which really disappointed her. Her whole church was united in prayer. By a miracle of God, she was out of the hospital the next day (Sunday), and she left for Paris with the rest of the group on Monday. Some say that they can't see God, to that I respond "Where are you looking?" ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acid_Rain327 Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 All right...I'd like to ask that religion be discussed no further, as it is a touchy subject, obviously for us all. I could argue against religion unyieldingly, and make arguements which would both stir up, and end parts of this discussion, but I believe in "each to his/her own". If a person chooses to believe in something, more power to them - no one can tell them it is right or wrong, because there IS no right or wrong with something like this. I will say this, however. In the late 1930s, a man named Charles Darwin travelled to the Gallopagos Islands, which are located off-coast of South America. There, he saw variations of finches, which were identical to the species he saw on the South American mainland. They had differently developed beaks, claws, and colorings, but were of the same species as those on the mainland. He actually SAW the effects of evolution first hand. He devised the Theory of Natural Selection, and decided that the finches on the Gallaopgos Islands had "evolved" to a point where they could better survive their surroundings. Essentially, he developed the Theories of Evolution, which are a heated topic within this forum right now. I personally believe in Evolution over Creation, but there is one very important aspect which blurs the line of differences between the two: Charles Darwing was a VERY religious man, so much that he was a prominant priest in his church. So, a man with unyielding acceptance and belief in a God, had generated thoughts which contradicted the very knowledge religious people hold of God, and their creation/existance. People to this day believe he is an athiest, and is against God, and similar religions, but he was actually very much a religious individual. So, he accepted both his religion, and his new discoveries. Take this into consideration before continuing this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShadeShifter Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 I'm not saying that adaptaton does not occur. Animals adapt to their surroundings and over time their physical appearance my change. What I do disagree with is the idea that one species can change into a completely different species. Darwin's finches were adaptations of the same species. They evolved to meet their need. Evolution does take place, but on a much smaller scale than, for instance, a parrot changing into a hawk. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acid_Rain327 Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 I understand that completely, but evolution such as that of man takes place over millions and millions of years - not just slight variations, but the progression into a more developed and more able to survive species. There are numerous cases of evolution that people believe to be true, and on some levels, they have been proven. Take dinosaurs for instance - palentologists are developing theories which do illustrate how Dinosaurs may have evolved into birds. The skeletal structures, hollow bones, the development of feathers during the Jurassic Period - all of them lead to conclusions that Dinosaurs did evolve or progress into birds. Now, the evolution of ape into man isn't nearly as far-fetched as the example I gave above. Despite missing links, the entire process IS believable, and does account for a striking amount of human development. I mean absolutely NO disrespect to anyone of religious beliefs, but the theories of evolution have fewer gaps in their illustration than recordings such as the Bible. Again, I do not mean any disrespect, but it is evident, and there are striking examples of the breaks in continuity within the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShadeShifter Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 I don't mean any disrespect either, but since you brought it up, show me a discrepency in the Bible. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liquidkid Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 havnt u guys seen "end of days?" that's proof positive that it's all true! no, of course you didnt see that movie. well, here's a pic from the movie that should convince you, i'm sure of it! so there you go! hooray! end of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Kanigget Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 Acid_Rain, have you ever sat back and thought about the mathematical improbability of the evolution you're talking about? That things evolved so perfectly that they came to exist as they do now? I have a friend who read a book on the Chaos Theory(yes, it's a theory, not proven, but it's more plausible then the evolutionary theory). It's very clear that mathematically, evolution on a grand scale COULD NOT have happened. It's just not probable. The theory on how man developed has taken a hit in the past years. Neanderthals were proven not to be man's early ancestor, further widening the missing link. Here's a discrepancy in science, actually used by scientists: One way to determine a fossils age is by looking at the age of the layer of soil it is in. To determine the age of the layer of soil, look at the age of the fossils that are in that layer. Circular logic. It doesn't work. Scientists also use carbon dating to determine the age of fossils. They assume that the carbon 14 is and always was constant. This is not so...the level of carbon 14 has changed so dramatically that a penguin which died eight years ago was tested. It was determined that through carbon 14 dating, the penguin had died 300 years ago. You seem to trust science implicitly. Science is not a constant thing. The only thing constant about science is it is constantly updating itself and disproving theories. Religion, on the other hand, Christianity to be specific, if kept in it's true and original form, has not changed. IT IS constant. ------------------ Darth Wart's Strategy Guide in a friendly, easy to use form!(Sorry, that was bad.) http://JediPowerBattlesGuide.homestead.com/JPB.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barnabas Antilies Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 I'm sorry to say Acid but you can't you Darwin ( not Darwing )as an example. After all of his writing he rejoined the church and renounced all of his works. ------------------ Father Barnabas Antilies, Supreme Chancelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jedihorn1 Posted May 3, 2000 Share Posted May 3, 2000 okok. i didnt wanna have to get into this evolution debate, but i hate to see someone misinformmed. 1. If you wanna go by probability and mathmatics: the chances that evolution would take place within an organism is less than the chances of letting a groupe of monkeys bang on a keyboard for a couple billion years and come up with a complete, flawless, copy of shakespear. i hate to tell ya but this is FACT not THEORY. This is what scientists have said the probability rate is. Don't believe me, look it up, and make sure to read from valid sources, not just some high school kids web site. (that was not ment to put down anyones view point) 2. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, if not i apologise, but as far as I know, Yes, Darwin was a Christian,and yes he came up with the theory of evolution, but he later disproved his own theory, and apologised for comming up with it in the first place and asked God for forgiveness. Again, if i am wrong on this point i am sorry, but i am 98% sure this is acurate. it has been a while sinse i have studied this stuff. ------------------ Check out my site for SW news rumors, fan fiction and chat! <A HREF="http://jedihorn1.homestead.com/jedihorn1.html There" TARGET=_blank>http://jedihorn1.homestead.com/jedihorn1.html There</A> is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, only knowledge. There is no passion, there is serinity. There is no death, there is the Force. (GOD)-Jedi Code [This message has been edited by jedihorn1 (edited May 07, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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