Civ's for SW:GB 2?

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

 

(1) Civ III eliminated the aspect of tactics. You may say it's impossible to implement tactics in a round-based game? Well, look at Heroes of Might and Magic IV. Also, I've heard, RoN will be RTS, which makes it even more likely to get boring without tactics.

 

It's just not fun in games, though, as you've got no flanking, tactical retreats, diversions, etc. To put it short: No tactics. It's just a matter of having the most units.

 

(2) Yeah, and what about people (citizens) moving from town to town in Civ III? I supposed that instead of walking, thus being visible on the map, just teleported from city to city . And I guess the people building fortresses and such in Civ 3 just got the mateirals out of thin air. No, wait, you don't need resources, you just sit there poking at the ground with a stick/hammer/whatever then suddenly a fortress/road will just *POOF* spawn onto the building site ). The same way as those F-16s just hover over tiles by some magical force. Not to call you a hypocrite or flame Civ 3 or anything, but hey...

 

(3) Also, it IS possible to build nations within other nations. Just look at the Vatican State inside Italy.

 

RoN/Civ3 is like the Sims: You either LOVE it or you HATE it. (4) Personally, I HATE Civ 3. (5) Also, many who play Civ 3 HATE GB. Now if we can get back on topic and discuss which/how many civs there will be in GB2, that would be nice.

 

 

 

(6) He meant different from Civ 3 , not different from AoK.

 

+

 

(7) Will you stop flaming Windu. I hope the mods will get your sense of humor, because you've just been reported:mad:.

 

1 - I do not like Civ3 either, and I find moving hundreds of units around in the modern ages to get to combats that will just be resolved randomly very boring. (Especially when you attack a 1-hp AI infantry with infantry and it takes 3 of yours with it, and the next turn the AI attacks 3 fortified full HP infantry in a metro with infantry and beats all of them in a row) Sure, it just got lucky - again.

 

And RoN will have tactics. There is flanking in the game, and Generals and other special units. The Generals are not micro-reducing heroes as in that horrible game EE; they give your army special bonuses and allow such tactics as ambushing (your units are hidden so you can surprise an enemy from behind). Also it can help your army arrive to save a city in time by using force march. I think there are attack bonuses as well.

 

2 - Well Civ3 is not a very good game, and I admit it so I don't see why any of this is relevant. However if workers needed to gather resources, etc, for roads the game would be nothing but micromanaging workers.

 

3 - But it is the exception rather than the norm - while in normal RTS such as GB, etc, building a forward base is VERY beneficial and is included before or during almost every attack.

 

4 - I hate Civ3 too. I am trying to make the game playable with the editor, but it is an uphill battle.

 

5 - I know many civ3 players who call normal RTS such as Age and GB clickfests.

 

6 - Well for starters it's real time instead of turn based... there's more but I think the games being different genres is plenty to make them different.

 

7 - Did you really have to do that? It's not like I was flaming you, and if Windu isn't going to stick up for himself then that is his problem.

 

-Signature: Are you serious? Have you seen some of the other sigs on this board? There is even one that says "F [name]" to 2 people. Mine is quite mild by comparison. And it is true that Windu used to spam the boards with random ideas, and if opposition made his idea look stupid he would tell them to leave the thread.

 

Is this better:

...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.

 

-Copy-Paste Comment: It is obvious that he was just copy-pasting stuff from the RoN promotion page and using it as his arguements. That was not a flame, it was a fact.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Hey good ideas there Teabag. Replace goo with stones and mech factory stuff and u got a good civ.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Why can't we have an Ewok civ just for fun?!

 

Why does everything need to be so realistic?!

 

Think about Wookiee Berserkers.

They have metal swords!

And they can kill an AT-AT!

Oh, I thought an AT-AT could not be killed by swords....

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Because that would not be canon. About everything in GB so far is canon, maybe except from that stuff in the Naboo civ (if Naboo had tanks, wouldn't they have used them in EP1 ?).

 

Besides, do we know how sharp those swords of theirs really are? Luke cut trough the armor of an AT-AT with his saber, remember?

 

Why does everything have to be so realistic? Well, if slime balls taking down a TIE Interceptor is your idea of unrealism, well, you're just TOOOOO far away from it.

[Teabag]

I recall saying that the Ewok civ would be just for laughs...just like the Sugarbuzz team in Madden 2003. Besides, the Gungans use Boomba's. What do you think Boomba's are? Boomba's are basically a corrosive substance! When it hit those trade federation tanks it chewed throug the armor and fried the wires which is why you saw the electrical sparks. Why cant the Ewoks have their own form of Boomba??

 

Oh and lets not forget that the Hydralisks in Starcraft fired goo like substance at those Terran Wraiths with good success!

 

This seems like he was surfing around Snoop Dogg's webiste and heard the word "ghetto" and thoght.."hey man that sounds cool..let me go around saying it"! I doubt if he knows what i means or even when and how to use it.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Ghetto (Dic. Def.): Walled-in districts without food or water constructed by the Third Empire during WW2 as part of the "Final Solution" to get rid of minority groups.

 

I recall saying that the Ewok civ would be just for laughs...just like the Sugarbuzz team in Madden 2003. Besides, the Gungans use Boomba's. What do you think Boomba's are? Boomba's are basically a corrosive substance! When it hit those trade federation tanks it chewed throug the armor and fried the wires which is why you saw the electrical sparks. Why cant the Ewoks have their own form of Boomba??

 

I finally get what this other guy meant. This "goo" is some sort of metal-eating acid that chews trough armor and starts getting into ships, also perhaps killing people. Good idea, except,

 

1. Because boomas are canon, Ewok acid slime is not.

 

2. Ewoks never had giant turtle shells, acidic slime, birds, or anything like that in ROTJ. However, Gungans had beasts, boats, and boomas in EP1, so they were about a full civ. LEC had to make about nothing up. With the Ewoks, it would be a totally non-canon civilzation. It's like saying "okay, let's make this game with the 2002 US Armed Forces fighting the 2002 North Korean Army fighting... the Aztecs. Let's just say that although Aztecs never had ICBMs, these Aztecs in the game had titanic slings that could propel these arrows over great distances.."

 

Yeah, it might be a good idea, but it's just not canon. Not Star Wars. It's like giving the X-Wing a cloaking device and say that "it always had it, it just never used it in the movies, books, or games :)". See what I mean? IMHO, it just would not be fun.

 

PS: Ewok boomas are actually electrical grenades that short-circuit the machinery of targets like the Ion Cannon on Hoth. Since the TF army is 100% machinery, it worked rather well (maybe organic being die from electric shocks or something?)

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Well instaed of goo, seeying as they had invented fire and fireworks, they could use them...

 

 

Rememeber, Ewoks are just for fun!

[Darth Windu]

With RoN, i would also like to point out that it has many features not found in other RTS's such as-

 

- flanking fire is more damaging

- holding the high ground is advantagous

- units are venerable crossing river's

- no need for transport ships

 

Also, there is a special unit called the General. This unit can cloak his troops for ambush, or make them march faster etc.

[Teabag]

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PS: Ewok boomas are actually electrical grenades that short-circuit the machinery of targets like the Ion Cannon on Hoth. Since the TF army is 100% machinery, it worked rather well (maybe organic being die from electric shocks or something?)

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When was the last time you saw electricity eat a hole through solid plate armor? And that's just our crappy modern tank armor..im sure the Trade Federation had much tougher armor plating! Why dont you go out and throw a battery at a tank and see what happens!

[lukeiamyourdad]

Teabag is right. And by the way how did the Ewoks kill a stormtrooper? With rocks? With whatever weapon they had?

In other words, they could challenge bigger civs just because they did challengethe Empire.

 

And by the way, the Wookiee civ is at 98% not canon and the Berserkers swords are still SWORDS.

[Sithmaster_821]

I think a comprimise is needed here. The just for fun civs sound just that: fun. But they would kinda ruin MP and seeing Ewok mechs... *shudders*. Remember LA brought us such creative art for units like the gungan AC *shudders again, so heres my idea: How about "just for fun civs" are included in the editor and possibly singleplayer but excluding from their tech tree units that just wont work. Then they're still fun and have little effect on the game. Note: Random will never produce one of these civs.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

When was the last time you saw electricity eat a hole through solid plate armor?

 

When the electrical bolt of the Ion Cannon blew big holes in that Star Destroyer's Shield generator, bridge, and hull .

 

And that's just our crappy modern tank armor..im sure the Trade Federation had much tougher armor plating! Why dont you go out and throw a battery at a tank and see what happens!

 

This battery on tank thing of yours makes it sound like you're deliberately misunderstanding me.

 

1. Several sources have called the energy balls electric. None have called them corrosive substances, this is just you jumping to conclusions.

 

2. Batteries do not lead electricity by hitting stuff , and I'm sure you know that. But if I coupled a really high-voltage battery to the power system of a tank, however, a couple of circuits might blow, like when a ligtning bolt hits a house. And, to turn what you said, that's just our crappy modern batteries..im sure the Gungans had much stronger electrical grenades. hah .

 

Teabag is right. And by the way how did the Ewoks kill a stormtrooper? With rocks? With whatever weapon they had?

In other words, they could challenge bigger civs just because they did challengethe Empire.

 

God, for the n'th time, Ewoks won because of

 

1. Knowledge of terrain.

 

2. Fighting with the Rebels.

 

3. Element of surprise.

 

4. Traps, etc.

 

Also, we never had any evidence the rocks killed the stormtroopers! There is a difference between something like losing your balance and falling, or being knocked over by a rock, or something like that, but they did not kill the stormies.

 

You can't kill even an unarmored person by dropping a rock at him from 1.5 m above him. Yes, he might have a concussion, but he won't die. And the stormies wore armor plating, remember?.

 

That, and the Ewoks, also for the n'th time, cannot defend themselves!! They take one hit and die, which means they can't have more than 10-20 HPs, as they don't wear any form of armor. Same with their gliders and catapults: One or two hits and they either burn or fall apart. Second, they may knock some stormies over with their rocks, but hey.. how are you going to get AT-STs, Rebel Juggernauts, or AT-ATs destroyed? Also by throwing rocks at them ?

 

And what about Ewoks in a space scenario? We know they can't build spaceships or airtight spacesuits, don't we? Or, let me guess, they ride in the airtight stomach of our new friend, the vacuum-breathing giant turtle , and they walk inside bubbles of this airtight miracle goo of theirs! .

 

And finally, when the Empire arrived on Endor to scout for possible locations for an Imperial base, wasn't the odds something like: Imperial Scout Group VS Entire gang of Ewoks? Yet they got their butts kicked! Even with those overwhelming odds in their favor! Doesn't that imply, just slightly, that their Endor victory maybe was because of a BIT OF help from the Alliance ?

 

And by the way, the Wookiee civ is at 98% not canon and the Berserkers swords are still SWORDS.

 

98% non-canon? Several sources from before the release of GB states that the Wookies were technologically advanced. I don't see how that's so damn impossible for you to understand. I mean, it's like me saying that Alderaan can't be technologically advanced because we never saw even a piece of their civilization). Or are you being racistic and saying that "oh, you see Chewie doesn't wear clothes and he talks by roaring so thus his people have to be primitive?".

 

And regarding the swords, well, they may be

 

1. Really sharp,

2. made from a really strong type of metal, and

3. When used by the Wookies, they have a good deal of power. Hey, wookies slap kinda hard, so I guess they can put some force in their chopping, too.

 

I agree with Sithmaster, though, you could have it as a cheat code civ or something (all the Ewok buildings and some Ewok units). But NOT as a real civ. For the n'th time, it would not work.

[Admiral Vostok]

98% non-canon? Several sources from before the release of GB states that the Wookies were technologically advanced.

 

Please note these sources were NOT the movies and therefore the Wookiee civ is NOT canon. Canon = in the movies.

 

Also note that no-one is saying the Wookiees should be removed from the game.

 

I agree with Sithmaster in that The Ewoks should be a grossly underpowered civ, but made playable for fun. I suggest the only way you could play it is by selecting it specifically in the multiplayer setup screen. So just selecting a Random civ won't make you end up with Ewoks, they're only in the game if you explicitely select them. Maybe have an extra option like "Allow extra civs" if we want others to be playable.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

1) The Ganguns also do not have space tech, and niether do they feature in space scenarios.

2) U can damage a Juggernuat by trying to puncutre one of it's tyres (that's what they look like). U can knock over an ATAT by throwing strong round stones in it's path and hope it'll trip up.

3) Also u can very probably crush the pilots inside an ATST by throwing rocks at them... big rocks.

[Admiral Vostok]

I think it depends a lot on what SWGB2 would play like as to whether an Ewok civ would be feasible as a proper civ. If the could give units special abilities, Ewoks would be able to infiltrate bases, steal speederbikes and build booby traps. Sure they would get kicked by air, unless they could think up a booby trap for aircraft...

[lukeiamyourdad]

I agree with Sithmaster in that The Ewoks should be a grossly underpowered civ, but made playable for fun. I suggest the only way you could play it is by selecting it specifically in the multiplayer setup screen. So just selecting a Random civ won't make you end up with Ewoks, they're only in the game if you explicitely select them. Maybe have an extra option like "Allow extra civs" if we want others to be playable.

 

Great Idea!!!!!!!!!

 

Dagobahn Eagle: Try throwing big rocks on someone...you will see the effects.

 

Besides I don't think they won because they were with the rebels. There wasn't a lot of rebs. The Ewoks outnumbered the Imps. And how many Stormtroopers and other died in one shot?!

A Tie Fighter(in the movies) can get killed by one shot while in the game, they can take as much punishment as a Z-95 Headhunter!

[Sithmaster_821]

I think they won because the good guys always win, especially when the good guys are furry and cute;).

 

You guys do realize that they won because the movies would suck if they didnt, so Lucas made the stormtroopers extra dumb and the rocks extra potent. Sure they were allied with the rebels but there were like 10 rebels on the entire planet. They won merely because they were destined to win.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

1. Once you shield Z-95's, they can take a good deal more punishment than a TIE. That, and in EP4, even an X-Wing could be crippled or destroyed by one shot!

 

2. Yes, rocks might hurt. No, they don't nearly hurt as bad as a blaster bolt. They don't even hurt as bad as a bullet.

 

2b. Rocks can't be thrown a tenth of the lenght a laser bolt can travel.

 

3. Just that an armored Z-95 can take as much punishment as an armored TIE Fighter does not have to mean an armored TIE Fighter can take as much damage as a contraption built out of fur and sticks.

 

4. Gungans could build submarines capable of handling the immense pressures of depths), and also, they built a city underwater (which humans have yet to accomplish). Seeing that they can seal out water and water pressure, they can seal their ships so that vacuum doesn't slip in.

 

5. Lucas wrote the movies, thus what he says neccesarily has to be "real Star Wars". Remember, not every damn technical feature in Star Trek is explained in the shows/movies, doesn't have to mean they aren't "real". The reason Wookies weren't in the movies is no action took place on the Wookie homeworld. Duh . Again, that's like saying the Alderaans were at a Stone Age level because we never saw their technology in the movies, isn't it?

 

6. Yes, you can puncture the tires of a Juggernaut. But no, this won't destroy the Juggernaut .

 

7. I don't see the fun in playing a grossly underpowered civilization. Think: If you had one civ in GB that could advance no further than to TL1, would you want to play that civ? Off course not, as they would get their sorry butts kicked. That's about what ewoks are.

 

8. To kill people inside an AT-ST, you have to breach it's armor, and I don't think rocks that big can be thrown physically.

 

9. Sithmaster is right. They sucked, but Lucas is in love with anti-materialistic Commie bears (see other thread ).

 

10. The Ewoks outnumbered the Imps, yeah, but in a fair fight..

 

For the n'th+1 time:

 

* Knowledge of terrain: The Ewoks knew the forest, had trapped it, and so on.

 

* Alliance with the rebels. Yes, this helped them. Why? Well, without the rebels opening the bunker, the ewoks would have lost. Just look at the scene where Leia gets shot: They're obviously pinned down, as a trooper feels comfortable walking out of cover and into the open telling the rebs to surrender. If the Imps were losing, he would have stayed in cover, wouldn't he? Obviously, the Ewoks and rebels were either stretched thin or dying.

 

* Element of surprise. The Imperials were cought completely off guard: All of them were standing in a ring around the rebel soldiers, and nobody watched their backs. It was easy for the Ewoks to surround the Imperials surrounding the rebels. Then, when the Ewoks attacked, they were attacked from litteraly everywhere by Ewoks and Rebels.

 

+++++

+***+

+*x*+

+***+

+++++

 

x: Rebels.

*: Imperials.

+: Ewoks.

 

Look at the Imperials. Doesn't look like a good tactical starting point, does it?

 

11. Regarding Wookies, nobody wanting to throw them out: Well, I want to throw the Wookies out and make a 3D game with 3 diverse civs like AoM.

 

12. The Ewoks doesn't have a tenth of the units that other civs in GB have.

 

 

Can we get off of the Ewoks for a second and discuss the other civilizations, or did you Ewok fans scare all the mature forummers away:mad:?

[lukeiamyourdad]

If you don't want to play the Ewok civ(if there is one) than fine don't play with them.

 

By the way, who are calling immature?!

[Sithmaster_821]

scare all the mature forummers away

Im still here! Oh, wait, oops, sorry,just forgot again that im immature:( I tend to slip up from time to time.

 

Although, to me personally the Ewoks dont rate high on the fun factor, I do believe that LA's proposed Underworld civ could work, not only because of their role in the movies, but because they have units that fit each catergory (except maybe jedi/sith). Another civ that could work would be the Trandoshans, mainly because they too were involved with the Empire and you cant talk about Wookies without mentioning Trandoshans. They were also highly advanced, and the current scenerio box has trandoshn buildings and units.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

I suggested Transdoshans.

[Sithmaster_821]

Actually i suggested them back when jcb was doing the new civs poll.