unit variations between civs (SWGB2)

[Admiral Vostok]

A popular model for a future Star Wars RTS seems to keep things basically the same except make the units for each civ more "unique" (don't debate this here, there are other threads to do so). So this thread is to voice your opinions on how various unit classes should differ between civs, an idea that was started on the Generic/Unique debate thread, but I think it deserves it's own thread.

 

So I'll go first to demonstrate:

 

For Assault Mech equivalents:

 

AT-AT - Very strong armour, moderate speed, long range, area attack good against troops and mechs, carries 20 trooper sized units.

 

AT-TE - Moderate armour, moderate speed, medium range, area attack good against troops and mechs, carries 10 trooper sized units.

 

MTT - Very strong armour, moderate speed, short range, area attack good against troops, carries 20 trooper sized units.

 

Note these are not balanced, they would cost different amounts of resources and would be balanced with the civ as a whole, not on a per unit basis.

 

Also lets keep it only to units from movies and eu, so we're not saying "I think Wookiees would have this...", and we're actually basing it on stuff we've seen in action.

[Darth Windu]

The way i see it, the various Mech Destroyer's and Assault mech's would be-

 

MTT - fairly slow, very well armoured, anti-infantry weapons, can carry 20 troopers

 

AAT - moderately fast, fair armour, 1 assault mech canon, no troop carrying ability

 

AT-AT - slow, very well armoured, 2 assault mech canon, can carry 10 troopers

 

AT-ST - moderately fast, fair armour, anti-infantry weapons, no troop carrying ability

 

AT-TE - fairly slow, very well armoured, 1 assault mech canon, can carry 5 troopers

 

Gian Speeder - fairly fast, very little armour, anti-mech canon, no troop carrying ability

 

 

I also think that the individual units should be balanced as a civ, and should have stats that emphasise that civ's 'personality'. What i mean by this would be-

 

Empire - slow, heavy mechanised force - aggressive

Republic - slightly lighter, slightly faster/mobile mechanised force - aggressive

Naboo - fast, light mech/infantry force - defensive

Rebels - fast, light, mobile infantry/air force - aggressive/defensive

[Sithmaster_821]

Im surprised Windu didnt do the fighters so he could do his favorite unit. Oh, well, ill do them instead:

 

X-wing-Sheilded and strong but expensive and slightly slow current fighter attack bonuses

TIE Fighter-Fast and cheap, but very weak attack bonus vs air

Genosian Fighter-Strong attack and armor, but no sheild and poor speed, good vs ground units

Naboo Fighter-Similar to the X-wing, but high speed and lowered attack

Gunship-Carries troops and has high attack and medium defences, slow, attack bonus vs buildings/troops

Gungans-Better design maybe placing a rider a top their awiha, dies readily to air, but has bonus vs mechs

Droid Fighter-Similar to TIE but cheaper and weaker, possibly has longer range than most air

 

Other air units:

TIE Bomber-Similar to current bomber drops more bombs after upgrades

Y-Wing-Faster and lighter but shielded

A-wing-Same as current

Air Speeder-Faster but hp wise weaker than current one

Jedi Starfighter-Faster and more hp than current

Naboo Bomber-Similar to TIE but shielded and more hp and cost

Geniosian Warrior-Possibly make these double as ground units

There are so many others that arent in the game and i havent mentioned

[Darth Windu]

I agree with those aircraft.

 

With the Jedi Starfighter, i would keep its higher hp's and higher speed, but give it normal adv fighter weapons and take away its ability to cloak.

[Admiral Vostok]

Heavy weapons (for the few that are in the movies):

 

Hailfire droid: Very fast, with seeking missiles that can shoot ground or air, but lightly armoured and low hp

 

Gungan catapult: Excellent area attack vs troops, but very slow, weak and long reload time

 

SPHA-T: This is grossly underpowered in SWGB, so they called it "Clone Artillery" instead of it's proper name. It should be slow, but with massive range, really good attack vs buildings, and moderate armour and hp.

 

 

 

Also note whether you think a certain unit should be able to shoot air or not. The catapult and SPHA-T I'd say no, but troopers in general I'd say yes, as well as some mechs like AT-AT, Homing Spider Droid and maybe AAT (since one did shoot down an N1).

[Darth Windu]

As for anti-aircraft ability, i would restrict it to specialised anti-aircraft mechs and troops rather than giving everything the ability to shoot at air.

 

Or perhaps to make them even more formidable, give assault mechs the ability to shoot at air and dont bother with the specialised anti-aircraft mechs.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Er, with CC the Empire already has the ability to shoot air with thier ATAT. It's an Empire-unique thing. Lets keep it that way.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Wow, I wonder why nobody has already done troopers anyway I'll do it.

 

Stormtrooper: Slow, Low hp but high armor, high attack, med range.

 

Rebel Trooper: Fast, High hp but low armor, lower attack but faster attack speed, long range.

 

Battle Droid: 2 for the price of one(like the zerglings in starcraft), each droid would have half the hp and attack of the current battle droid.

 

Clone Trooper: Same as Stormtrooper.

 

Gungan Trooper: Fast, med hp med armor but shield that can deflect 1/6shots, low range and med attack.

 

Wookiee Trooper: Med speed, very high hp but low armor, med attack and med range.

 

Super Battle Droid: Slow speed, med hp but very high armor, med attack but short range.

 

Naboo Royal Trooper: Fast, med hp and med armor, low attack but long range and faster attack speed.

 

That is all.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

With the Jedi Starfighter, i would keep its higher hp's and higher speed, but give it normal adv fighter weapons and take away its ability to cloak.

 

One problem. If you make the Starfighter nothing more than an improved fighter, then what is the purpose of the republic Adv Fighter? If you are going to do that then you might as well make the starfighter the republic fighter - which is not only rediculous because of differences in use, but I suspect you have a different motive. You want to open up a UU spot for your gunship.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

U forgot the Jedi Master UU

[Sithmaster_821]

Simwiz is right. The whole cloak but bad aa attack clearly shows how starfighters were used for reconnaisse not dogfights. And your idea overshadows the civ's primary attacking air unit (your much beloved gunship).

 

Edit: Post 500!!!!!!!!! Yahoo!

[Darth Windu]

I was actually figuring that on unique unit sets, but still...

 

With the Jedi Starfighter - we have only ever seen it in the one movie, and then it really didnt do much, so we dont know what its actual role is. Having said that i belive there was a scene cut from ep2 where there was a battle between Jedi Starfighter's and Droid starfighter's in space, which was before lucas decided to give the geonosians their own fighter. The Jedi Starfighter (not Jedi Recon Craft) is also portrayed as the Republic's main fighter in the game 'Jedi Starfighter'.

 

In my opinion, the Jedi Starfighter should be a normal fighter but with slightly higher hp's and slightly faster.

[Admiral Vostok]

I tend to agree, Windu. The Gunship is an airspeeder, not a fighter. I think the Jedi Starfighters would be potentially more powerful and faster than other fighters, but with low armour. Do they have shields? I'm not sure... Anyway this would emphasise the fact that they're only good with a Jedi behind the stick. However I think we might see a support fighter for the Jedi Starfighter in episode III, flown by Clonetroopers. Actually, now that I think of it it will probably be a TIE fighter!

 

 

I disagree with your Super Battle Droid, lukeiamyourdad. They were fairly mega, and they had a built-in repeater blaster. I was thinking:

 

Slow, high health, high armour, strong attack, medium range.

 

They'd be pretty expensive though, probably the most expensive trooper.

 

 

And I don't think everyone should shoot air, but I think a fair few units should and make aircraft stronger so they are as good as in the movies.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Actually the Jedi Starfighter isn't really a fighter.

 

Look here and you will understand:

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/delta7/index.html

 

It did employ weapons but the pilot preffered to use is force ability to avoid aggression, so it sould not be a regular fighter.

[Sithmaster_821]

Agreed luke, jedi starfighters are mainly for transporting jedis and gathering info, thus the cloaking tech and the huge LOS tech.

[Darth Windu]

luke, sithmaster - as i said, we really dont know. However, it does say on the databank that the Jedi StarFIGHTER is a 'light interceptor', not recon craft. Also, from the cut scenes from ep2 and the game 'Jedi Starfighter' we see that the Jedi Starfighter really is a fighter.

[KoL ShadowJedi]

stich to relevcance, no debating!

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

luke, sithmaster - as i said, we really dont know. However, it does say on the databank that the (1) Jedi StarFIGHTER is a 'light interceptor', not recon craft. (2) Also, from the cut scenes from ep2 and the game 'Jedi Starfighter' we see that the Jedi Starfighter really is a fighter.

 

1 - Just because it is called a starfighter does not mean it is primarily used as a fighter. The Jedi's private transport/recon vessels can be named whatever Lucas wants them to be named. Would Jedi Recon/Private Transport have sounded at all interesting? No. You name a ficticious object based on what sounds good, not rigidly based on what it does.

 

2 - Well in in Episode 2 I saw the starfighters whisking the Jedi from planet to planet, occasionally defending themselves as necessary along the way. I would guess that is a major use based on that evidence alone.

[lukeiamyourdad]

1 - Just because it is called a starfighter does not mean it is primarily used as a fighter. The Jedi's private transport/recon vessels can be named whatever Lucas wants them to be named. Would Jedi Recon/Private Transport have sounded at all interesting? No. You name a ficticious object based on what sounds good, not rigidly based on what it does.

 

Some body said in another thread that it could be called jedi shuttle witch sounds good. But anyway it's called a starfighter because it is small and needs only one pilot or two.

[Darth Windu]

simwiz - consider the example of Luke and his X-wing Starfighter in ep5 'The Empire Strikes Back'. If we had only seen that movie, we may have the same debate we are having about the Jedi Starfighter.

 

In that movie luke uses his X-wing basically as a shuttle, it just flies him from planet to planet and does no fighting at all.

 

The point im trying to make, is that we dont know.

[Admiral Vostok]

I agree with keeping the Jedi Starfighter with pretty much the same abilities and weaknesses as it has. I also agree that maybe cloaking isn't the best thing - it's supposed to be Jedi Mind Trick, and how the hell a Jedi waves his hand around like that while speeding along is beyond me. Maybe it should still be pretty fast but have an amazingly large LOS, so it can be used to "spy" but from a distance. It would have a far greater LOS than any other unit, even a Jedi Master (who would still be able to mind trick). I also think all Jedi units should be able to mind trick.