A first look at ProMod 3.0

[Toa Tahu]

Yeah,about the jetpack sounds,I'd agree with that sound contest.Just change the sound a bit so it doesn't confuse players with the saber being on.

 

But I have one gripe.No offence,ArtifeX,no offence to anyone,but IMHO I think that to have a force power to even pull the (secodary) trigger would be silly.No jedi ever uses guns,and there is,IMHO,no force power concerning a gun's trigger-pull.And besides,Lv4 guns!No offence,again,but where in the world do you see a Lv4 gun force power!!I know I'll receive a LOT of hate mail for this,but I hope none of you receive any offence,please.

 

And besides,the Jedi Guardian concentrates more on the saber,not on guns.Anyway,I like the Jetpack idea and the prospects for it.

 

And,finally,ArtifeX,I hope that you shall put another level for saber force powers.Lv4 Saber Offence would allow you to push harder,and have another stance.(something that has the power of yello and the speed of blue maybe?),Lv 4 saber defense would allow you to defend against rapid-fire guns,IE the repeater.Lv 4 saber throw would let it find enemies to kill(heh,more like a dark side power)

 

And,I would also like the classic force powers(pull,push) to be upgraded to level 4.Push lv 4 would allow you to create an invisible sphere that would push away anyone in its radius,including repeater shots and rockets.

 

No offense,just my 2 sen worth,though.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Toa Tahu

...but IMHO I think that to have a force power to even pull the (secodary) trigger would be silly.No jedi ever uses guns,and there is,IMHO,no force power concerning a gun's trigger-pull.And besides,Lv4 guns!No offence,again,but where in the world do you see a Lv4 gun force power!!I know I'll receive a LOT of hate mail for this,but I hope none of you receive any offence,please.

 

...

 

I don't consider the Weapon Skills to be Force Powers. If you take a look at the screenshots at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that what was the "Force" setup screen is now the "Skill" setup screen. Both the Force Powers and the Weapon Skills use up skill points now rather than the old force points. The basis for this is that it takes time and effort to learn to do anything, be it using the force or learning how to use and maintain a mechanical weapon.

[Toa Tahu]

Ah,I'm sorry.No offense,ArtifeX,but it seems that the game seems to be delving out of the word 'Jedi'.But it's ok,it makes gameplay much more comprehensive,though

 

Other than that,Promod looks like it's going to be quite good saber mod.Anyway,today I tried protect,but one guy gripped me and then he did damage to me!I was like what the heck?Does protect protects you completely from all those force power again?

 

Anyway,I heard that ArtifeX is adding saga gameplay to Promod 3.Are you going to?I never heard any mention of it here.But if you are planning to add it,please,if it's a BIG file,please seperate it from the original ProMod,or else we 56kers won't get to download it(those who can play for a time of maybe 45 minutes like me)If it's small,then add it.And,do you think saga will be interesting?

[Syfo-Dyas]

Originally posted by Toa Tahu

Yeah,about the jetpack sounds,I'd agree with that sound contest.Just change the sound a bit so it doesn't confuse players with the saber being on.

No, it's not the same sound as the saber. I think you misunderstood something I wrote earlier.

It WORKS LIKE the saber. You push a button, and your saber turns on, and it has a special sound, right? And when you are holding your saber that is already on, that has a special sound. And when you turn your saber off, that has a special sound. So that is three different sounds -know what I mean?

 

So when I was thinking about the sounds for a jetpack, ArtifeX was talking about just one basic sound. I thought it would be cool if it could have a special sound for when the engines ignite, and a special sound for when it's on and you are flying around, and a special sound for when you shut the jet engines down.

So again, three different sounds

 

I figured it could be done, because the lightsaber already does it. ArtifeX seemed to think it wouldn't be too hard to set up. So that's how the Jetpack works.

 

But the sounds are not lightsaber sounds. I created new sounds from scratch for the jetpack. My hope is that it will add some excitment to the game, rather than just hearing recycled sounds that are already part of the game.

 

Hope that cleared up any misunderstandings that anyone might have had.

[Kainite]

First off I'm a big fan and I'm really looking forward to Promod 3. Any even vague ideas on a realse date yet ? Could you update your site as well to say how much you've done and how much you've got left to include, although I understand you're a busy guy. You never know, you could be the first gooseman of JKII

 

(gooseman was the inventor of counterstrike for halflife for anyone who didn't know)

[Moradivh]

Whelp, last night I got to see the promod jetpack in action for the first time. I suck at using it since I don't have it bound to the right key yet, but the mechanics are great. Artifex kicked the crap out of me with his gunner build, using remotes and turrets to counter my mind tricks, digging in on some small part of the map and setting a horde of explosive traps at every entrance (I won't even mention the medpack incidient... oww). And even without the remotes he always listened for my saber/footsteps/rolls and could usually slaughter my invisible self with heavy weapons. And on the few instances where I got close enough slice at him, his damn jetpack would usually blast him to safety. I'd push him clear off a cliff, and he'd survive falls a Jedi with force jump would die from. It was getting pretty tedious near the end. I'll have to make serious Jedi force adjustments before I try fighting him again... once I master my technique, yeah...

 

Anyways, I don't think gunners will be disappointed with the new promod.

 

My one big critique of the jetpack is that it really, really needs some sounds and FX. Without them the effect is just weak. I wasn't even sure Arti was using it at first, till it dawned on me that a lvl4 gunner can't have force jump.

 

Artifex, I know Syfo-Dyas is working on the sounds, but in the mean time I've made a few temporary ones you can try to use, just till Syfo gets his finished. Didn't take me long with Soundforge and a few Star Wars weapon blasts I downloaded. Granted my sounds aren't the highest quality, but I think they'll be alot better than nothing. Let me know if you're interested and I'll email them.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Kainite

First off I'm a big fan and I'm really looking forward to Promod 3. Any even vague ideas on a realse date yet ? Could you update your site as well to say how much you've done and how much you've got left to include, although I understand you're a busy guy. You never know, you could be the first gooseman of JKII

 

(gooseman was the inventor of counterstrike for halflife for anyone who didn't know)

 

I make frequent updates to my moddb site here:

 

http://promod.moddb.com/

 

I can't access my ftp while I'm at work, so I tend to update that site more frequently.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Moradivh

Whelp, last night I got to see the promod jetpack in action for the first time. I suck at using it since I don't have it bound to the right key yet, but the mechanics are great. Artifex kicked the crap out of me with his gunner build, using remotes and turrets to counter my mind tricks, digging in on some small part of the map and setting a horde of explosive traps at every entrance (I won't even mention the medpack incidient... oww). And even without the remotes he always listened for my saber/footsteps/rolls and could usually slaughter my invisible self with heavy weapons. And on the few instances where I got close enough slice at him, his damn jetpack would usually blast him to safety. I'd push him clear off a cliff, and he'd survive falls a Jedi with force jump would die from. It was getting pretty tedious near the end. I'll have to make serious Jedi force adjustments before I try fighting him again... once I master my technique, yeah...

 

Anyways, I don't think gunners will be disappointed with the new promod.

 

My one big critique of the jetpack is that it really, really needs some sounds and FX. Without them the effect is just weak. I wasn't even sure Arti was using it at first, till it dawned on me that a lvl4 gunner can't have force jump.

 

Artifex, I know Syfo-Dyas is working on the sounds, but in the mean time I've made a few temporary ones you can try to use, just till Syfo gets his finished. Didn't take me long with Soundforge and a few Star Wars weapon blasts I downloaded. Granted my sounds aren't the highest quality, but I think they'll be alot better than nothing. Let me know if you're interested and I'll email them.

 

Sorry, Moradin, but I gotta tell everybody about the medpack incident, as you call it. It's just too freakin funny not to tell!

 

We were on CTF_Bespin, I was a gunner with level 4 explosives and gadgets skills (among a couple others), and he was a light side Jedi. After fully stocking up on all the different explosives, I ran back to the narrow hallway that looks out to where my team's flag was located, next to the three +25 medpacks. I could hear the distant hum of his lightsaber, and his footsteps, but knew he'd be using mind trick to stay invisible. I quickly placed three detpacks right over the top of each of the medpacks, which were rendered totally invisible. I then turned to face the center of the map, and listened as his saber hum sound got closer and closer behind me.

 

I can only imagine what a morsel my apparently undefended back must have presented to him. I bet he was feeling mighty bloodthirsty right then. As soon as I thought he was close enough, I ran forward quickly and detonated the packs. BOOM! Dead Moradin! LOL! Moradin's comment was: "What the...?" (or something to that effect)

 

I don't think I ever laughed that hard playing any game in my life. Not to dis Moradin at all. He really played well, and was starting to figure out workarounds to my tactics when I had to quit.

[Moradivh]

Bastard... if I knew you woulda made the whole game PUBLIC... and hiding explosives INSIDE medpacks is just evil dude.

 

Hehehe... though I had my moments of grace too. Like when I killed you in the opposite corridor, that was too perfect... went in with mind trick, turned off my saber to assure stealth. You heard my footsteps and crouched to the floor to try and figure out the direction. Then, RIGHT in front of your field of view I turn visible, my saber ignites and I cut you down in one confident medium swing... it was beautiful, totally Jedi-like, the highpoint of the game for me.

 

The unique tactics needed to survive that game really awed me, like using mind trick to ping your location (it wouldn't turn on unless I fired it in your direction). And I made some nice kills when I pulled your jetpacking self into range of my saber, though you still beat me to a pulp for the most part. It's a testament to your mod that I stuck around that long. 1on1 fights on big maps make incredibly boring games in vanilla.

 

Anyways, if you're still short on jetpack sounds, lemme know. Mine seem to work fine when looped, and they do sound jetpack-like. I'm not a soundforge pro but they could do the trick, I'm certain.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Moradivh

Bastard... if I knew you woulda made the whole game PUBLIC...

 

Hehehe... though I had my moments of grace too. Like when I killed you in the opposite corridor, that was too perfect... went in with mind trick, turned off my saber to assure stealth. You heard my footsteps and crouched to the floor to try and figure out the direction. Then, RIGHT in front of your field of view I turn visible, my saber ignites and I cut you down in one confident medium swing... it was beautiful, totally Jedi-like, the highpoint of the game for me.

 

The unique tactics needed to survive that game really awed me, like using mind trick to ping your location (it wouldn't turn on unless I fired it in your direction). And I made some nice kills when I pulled your jetpacking self into range of my saber, though you still beat me to a pulp for the most part. It's a testament to your mod that I stuck around that long. 1on1 fights on big maps make incredibly boring games in vanilla.

 

Anyways, if you're still short on jetpack sounds, lemme know. Mine seem to work fine when looped, and they do sound jetpack-like. I'm not a soundforge pro but they could do the trick, I'm certain.

 

Yeah, we traded some awesome kills last night. Looking forward to another go-'round.

 

I've actually got a temporary sound built in now that is part of the regular game's sound library. It's sound/effects/flamejet_lp.wav

Seems to work really well, at least until I can get the rest of the code figured out.

[DrazMan]

Well I haven't really bothered playing JO that much since the server went on lockdown. I'm really hankering to dice again though and it seems no other server is running the mod. Is there any way to gain access to the one on lockdown?

[Moradivh]

**tries jetpack on server**

 

Meh, mine sounds way better than that IMO. Made starts and stops, and it's much louder, though not quite as smooth.

 

Anyways, Syfo's probably about done with his jet sounds, so whatevuh'.

[ArtifeX]

the sound i'm using now is just a place holder.

 

One thing to remember though, the jetpack is used quite a bit for short bursts that last less than one second. You don't want to get 4 seconds of sound for a quarter-second burst of thrust.

[Moradivh]

Thanks, I did think about that. My longest sound is the middle wav, 0.8 seconds. I tried making it shorter but the loop didn't work too well. I would've had to spend several hours searching for shorter references and figuring out soundforge to get it right, so I didn't bother. The start and finish are about 0.5 seconds respectively.

 

Heh, I can understand how this may be taking Syfo-Dyas a little while. It's harder than I expected, though I'm definitely an amateur.

[ryudom]

Just wondering about saber throw, if anything's going to be done about it. One thing is that the saber is trown incredibly fast, and should really have take twice as long as a normal swing. I don't know if anything can be done or should be done or has been done, so if this is redundant or whatnot just ignore it. It just occured to me today though (because i usually nf duel) how powerfull the pull-throw-kick-throw combo really is.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Originally posted by Moradivh

Heh, I can understand how this may be taking Syfo-Dyas a little while. It's harder than I expected, though I'm definitely an amateur.

 

Hey! No wonder my ears are buring! People are talk'n 'bout me around here!!!

 

Actually, the samples were completed on Sunday, and I think I emailed them to ArtifeX that same day. But later I realized that they probably wouldn't work since the sample rate wasn't at 44.1khz. So, I resampled them and sent them out to ArtifeX. I'm surprised you didn't hear them, unless maybe ArtifeX is having trouble setting them up or something. But hey... At least you've gotten to see the Jetpack, and play ProMod 3 on a REAL online server with humans and everything! I still here playing ProMod 2 with BOTS. But even BOTs are fun with ProMod! Still, I'm getting itchy to get my ass kicked by real people again!

 

 

About your sounds, Moradivh. I'd be interested in hearing what you've come up with. And if your having trouble, I might be able to help you out. I don't work with SoundForge so I don't know if I'd be much help or not. But, two heads are better than one. My rule of thumb is: There is no substitute for hands-on experience. Another is: Something might take you 5 or 7 hours to do the FIRST time, and 5 or 7 minutes the second time. I HATE learning new software, but I find it less frustrating when I EXPECT it to take a long time when there is a learning curve involved.

 

It's like JO editing/map making. I'd like to tinker with it sometime, but I can't even get Raven's editing software to work right. At some point I just let it go. If I REALLY want to mess with that stuff, then I'll take some time, sit down, and really focus on understanding it. Right now, I have other things that matter more to me.

 

 

If you're really wanting to do some sound editing for JO, Moradivh, I can tell an area that could really use some help right now. Cleaning up the samples that people make for the skins/models they release. Most of the time, they just need to have their volume boost 3 or 6db, and maybe boost the treble a little. Other than that, the samples might need to be trimmed a little if they have dead air in them, and they sometimes need to have their MP3 format re-encoded at a greater compression ratio, to reduce the overall size of the file. If you wanted to do that for the skins/models that are going into the ProMod MediaPak 1, I'm sure you wouldn't get an argument from anyone.

[Toa Tahu]

Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas

No, it's not the same sound as the saber. I think you misunderstood something I wrote earlier.

It WORKS LIKE the saber. You push a button, and your saber turns on, and it has a special sound, right? And when you are holding your saber that is already on, that has a special sound. And when you turn your saber off, that has a special sound. So that is three different sounds -know what I mean?

 

I know,that's what I meant.I'm sorry,maybe my choice of word made you misunderstand what I wanted to say.Ok?No offence though...

 

EDIT:Wow.After sifting through all the posts,and seeing ArtifeX's ProMod 3's Beta Test game with Moradivh,I felt so dissappointed that I won't be enjoying this with anyone else save for bots.

 

Oh yeah,ArtifeX,did you change the scripting for the bots,so that they don't be Jedi and gunner at the same time?For example,the Jedi bots like Luke and Desann.

 

And,finally,is there a way to have BOTH Jetpack and Jedi Skills at the same time?I'm just curious...

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by ryudom

Just wondering about saber throw, if anything's going to be done about it. One thing is that the saber is trown incredibly fast, and should really have take twice as long as a normal swing. I don't know if anything can be done or should be done or has been done, so if this is redundant or whatnot just ignore it. It just occured to me today though (because i usually nf duel) how powerfull the pull-throw-kick-throw combo really is.

 

In Promod, you can duck to render yourself immune to Pull, so that the pull-throw-kick-throw combo doesn't work on you anymore. :]

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Toa Tahu

 

I know,that's what I meant.I'm sorry,maybe my choice of word made you misunderstand what I wanted to say.Ok?No offence though...

 

EDIT:Wow.After sifting through all the posts,and seeing ArtifeX's ProMod 3's Beta Test game with Moradivh,I felt so dissappointed that I won't be enjoying this with anyone else save for bots.

 

Oh yeah,ArtifeX,did you change the scripting for the bots,so that they don't be Jedi and gunner at the same time?For example,the Jedi bots like Luke and Desann.

 

And,finally,is there a way to have BOTH Jetpack and Jedi Skills at the same time?I'm just curious...

 

I haven't altered the bot ai yet. I have tested the bots with the new system and they work fine with a few caveats:

 

1. Jedi will use guns on you if you're using a gun against them. I'll need to modify this later to keep this from happening.

 

2. Gunner bots (Lando, etc.) will refrain from using force powers and lightsabers in my experience, regardless of what you use against them.

 

3. No bots will use the jetpack yet.

 

4. All bots are assigned level 3 in all weapon skills.

 

Someone knowledgable might be able to alter the bot behavior files and make it so that the bots won't use guns if they're supposed to be a jedi and vice-versa. If anyone knows how to do this off the top of their head and would like to help me out, then I'd be happy to include the changes in the 3.0 release.

[Moradivh]

Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas

 

About your sounds, Moradivh. I'd be interested in hearing what you've come up with. And if your having trouble, I might be able to help you out. I don't work with SoundForge so I don't know if I'd be much help or not. But, two heads are better than one. My rule of thumb is: There is no substitute for hands-on experience. Another is: Something might take you 5 or 7 hours to do the FIRST time, and 5 or 7 minutes the second time. I HATE learning new software, but I find it less frustrating when I EXPECT it to take a long time when there is a learning curve involved.

Whelp, I could email them to you or something. I didn't know the required sample rate so they're at 11,025 hz 16-bit stereo, though I could probably change it to anything pretty quick.

 

As far as I can tell the sounds are solid, very jetpack-like and maybe a bit too loud, though it's hard to be positive with my crackly speakers.

 

Idunno if I'll get into regular sound editing around here, as I'm busy trying to get a job and making my first 3D demo reel, and promod addiction is time consuming enough as it is. The jetpack was really a "see if I could do it in an hour and make it good" kind of project. But I may consider lending a hand to the media pack in the future if the regular contributors are getting swamped.

 

Anyways, thanks for the interest.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

 

I haven't altered the bot ai yet. I have tested the bots with the new system and they work fine:

 

Someone knowledgable might be able to alter the bot behavior files and make it so that the bots won't use guns if they're supposed to be a jedi and vice-versa. If anyone knows how to do this off the top of their head and would like to help me out, then I'd be happy to include the changes in the 3.0 release.

 

This is a pretty simple thing to do. It doesn't have any effect on AI, it only balances the BOT's preferences.

 

Open the PK3 file of your choice, and seek the file with the extension JKB.

 

Open this file in wordpad and about mid-way down you will see the following:

 

//Weapons with a weight of 0 will be used in special cases outside of combat

 

BotWeaponWeights

{

WP_STUN_BATON 1

WP_SABER 16

WP_BRYAR_PISTOL 10

WP_BLASTER 11

WP_DISRUPTOR 12

WP_BOWCASTER 13

WP_REPEATER 14

WP_DEMP2 15

WP_FLECHETTE 17

WP_ROCKET_LAUNCHER 18

WP_THERMAL 9

WP_TRIP_MINE 0

WP_DET_PACK 0

}

 

The numbers indicate the BOT's desire to use a given weapon. The numbers do not appear to have any restrictions (other than 'zero' having a special function), so I'm guessing that you could go from 1 to 99 and not have problems -though it probably isn't necessary to go to that extreme.

 

The JKB file above was taken from Luke. In the game, Luke appears to favor the Saber. But you can see above that the Saber is actually his third favorite after the Rocket and Flechette.

 

It probably makes sense to examine a few JKB files from BOT's you know well, to see how they are set up. It might help take some of the guess work out of assigning new numbers

 

As a side note: I have altered some of my 'Jedi' BOTs so that they will take advantage of Trip mines and Det Packs. I also sometimes allow them a Bryar Pistol to carry as a sidearm. BOT's aren't known to be too smart, so anything I can do to spice things up is usually worth it.

[Toa Tahu]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

 

In Promod, you can duck to render yourself immune to Pull, so that the pull-throw-kick-throw combo doesn't work on you anymore. :]

 

Yay!No more kick-then-rise-up-only-to-find-out-that-you-were-'sabered'-by-so and so anymore!!!

 

If it will be like that then all force powers would be easily counterable!I like that...gunners will have the last laugh against Jedi after all... :evillol: (does this work?)

[Toa Tahu]

In Promod, you can duck to render yourself immune to Pull, so that the pull-throw-kick-throw combo doesn't work on you anymore. :]

 

Yay!No more kick-then-rise-up-only-to-find-out-that-you-were-'sabered'-by-so and so anymore!!!

 

If it will be like that then all force powers would be easily counterable!I like that...gunners will have the last laugh against Jedi after all... :evillol: (does this work?)

 

 

Second post:

 

1. Jedi will use guns on you if you're using a gun against them. I'll need to modify this later to keep this from happening.

Hmmm,I'd also learn C++ one day so I can make a mod for JK3

 

2. Gunner bots (Lando, etc.) will refrain from using force powers and lightsabers in my experience, regardless of what you use against them.

This will be interesting if ArtifeX could make an option of Jedi/gunner teams.

 

Well,ArtifeX,you did your best and we all await this free-yet cool mod.Good work,ArtifeX!

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas

 

This is a pretty simple thing to do. It doesn't have any effect on AI, it only balances the BOT's preferences.

 

Open the PK3 file of your choice, and seek the file with the extension JKB. ...

 

Thanks again Syfo! Good info here. I'll make sure to take a look at the files before release.