Admiral Vostok Posted November 29, 2002 Share Posted November 29, 2002 Well clasing things as "canon" and "absolute canon" is a pretty dodgy way of doing things. The way I understand the term "canon" is what they call absolute canon, and what I call generally accepted is what they call plaain canon. Obviously if some parts of EU don't count as "canon" such as the Droids series and the Boba Fett stories then I think it becomes unclear where to draw the line. For what is "truly" Star Wars the movies are the number one source. This makes them canon, and everything that is secondary is not canon. Actually Lord of the Rings is still valid. I agree it gives the game designers more stuff to draw on, but do they? No. You only still see the creatures and races that appear in the actually trilogy in the games. I don't think there are any races (apart from the ancient ones like the Numenoreans and some kinds of Elves that aren't around anymore) that exist in middle earth that aren't seen in either the Lord of the Rings trilogy or in the Hobbit, and even those that weren't seen are still mentioned. This is how I consider Star Wars. Sure George hasn't given us as much stuff to draw on, but I still think the Star Wars universe as it exists on film is enough to entertain me. I don't mind games set on planets we don't see, and the odd unseen alien along for the ride, but an entire army that wasn't important enough to show on film I'm not interested in. So in conclusion, I think luke's dad has got it when he says we shouldn't consider it canon but it can still be great and fun and fantastic. Just don't call it canon because it is not (I think I'll email starwars.com right away to make sure they correct their mistakes... ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 30, 2002 Share Posted November 30, 2002 i think we should really ask them to draw the line between the two of them(canon and EU). It should be clearer what is an what isn't. Of course the movies are enough to entertain everyone but we could also take some stuff from Eu and put it in swgb 2. Maybe just in the toybox(if there isn't any Eu civ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted November 30, 2002 Author Share Posted November 30, 2002 Acrtually i've just been back to starwars.com and found out some more on EU. In regards to canon, ONLY the movies are canon. EU is seen as a 'window into the star wars universe, although some are foggier than others'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Well that's what I've been saying all along, except with a cool metaphor to explain better. I'm glad starwars.com didn't make such a mistake. I must admit I was disturbed when you posted that. Luke's dad, I'm all for EU units in the Toybox, and EU within canon civs (dark trooper in Galactic Empire). But not an entire civ of EU. That really has nothing to do with this topic. We have strayed somewhat, largely due to me... Anyway, getting back to the topic at hand, I think Windu's missile air units wouldn't be totally bad, but they should definitely not replace bombers. I see missileships as having a fair range, probably good against mechs? Not good against buildings or troopers. However, this would take the uniqueness of the airspeeder away from rebels... maybe airspeeders would be better against mechs, with shorter range, and maybe able to detect stealth units? Don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 I thought that kind of ship should be more like an anti-AC thing or anti-tranports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 But if you think about how rockets are used in the movies, they were used mostly by the Republic for taking out the Hailfire droids, and by the Confederacy for taking out the ATTEs. Most Gunships were taken down by laser fire. Also, does anyone else think that the Geonosian Fighters seem to shoot a flak weapon in the movies? It doesn't mention it in the databank, but if you watch the movie it looks like their lasers explode in a black cloud even when they hit nothing. My friend (who's a big fan of Memphis Belle) said they look like flak, and I had to agree. That could also explain why they shoot in purple as opposed to red/green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 They shot in purple? I didn't see that! *Going to his dvd player and watching AotC again. Maybe.....but in the flight sims, purple things are called mag pulse. It disables the enemy ship's cannons for a short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 Actually Vostok, theoretically, the power of the laser (any fighter mounted laser) would vaporise the sand when it hits, therefore causing the black cloud. The reason it looks like flak is probably because lucas bases the fighter's on WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 No, not hitting the sand. Look in the background when Obi-Wan and Anakin are arguing about whether to stop for Padme or to keep following Dooku. At least one blast clearly explodes into cloud in mid-air. I know Lucas based stuff on WWII fighters, which just goes to show it probably is supposed to be flak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 No, not hitting the sand. Look in the background when Obi-Wan and Anakin are arguing about whether to stop for Padme or to keep following Dooku. At least one blast clearly explodes into cloud in mid-air. I know Lucas based stuff on WWII fighters, which just goes to show it probably is supposed to be flak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 About the whole EU thing: I don't care whether it's called "canon" or not. Who the hell does? Fact is we're talking about a game, which naturally will include many things that aren't canon, and must sacrifice bits of canon for the sake of gameplay. I strongly dislike this standpoint of "oh, let's build on movie civs before showing EU civs." Haven't they mostly dont that already? We've got Rebels, Naboo, Confed, Republic, Trade Fed, Gungans and Wookies (which are mostly EU anyway). What you're basically saying is "I'd rather totally build up on all the races that might have been slightly shown and might do absolutely pathetically in gameplay (eg. Hutts, Trandoshans, Ewoks) to a civ shown in full with a huge wealth of material to draw on and perfect for use in the game (eg. Yuuzhan Vong), just because it's EU." This just seems slightly insane. Please, for the sake of gameplay, let the EU in! About the rockets thing: Whoever came up with 'missileships'? What are they? I'm not sure if I like that idea. Genosian ships with flak- I never really noticed that, but that might be a cool unique ability for Confed fighters in GB 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 5, 2002 Author Share Posted December 5, 2002 Do most star wars fans know what Ewoks are? Do most star wars fans know what the Hutt's are? Do most star wars fans know what the Yvung Vang are? It more be much more appropriate and interesting to include a civ which has been shown in the movies, and beefed up with EU, rather than create an entire EU civ, which would be boring and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu Do most star wars fans know what Ewoks are? Do most star wars fans know what the Hutt's are? Do most star wars fans know what the Yvung Vang are? It more be much more appropriate and interesting to include a civ which has been shown in the movies, and beefed up with EU, rather than create an entire EU civ, which would be boring and pointless. Most SW fans know what Ewoks are. Most SW fans know what a Hutt is. A good enough number of SW fans know what the Yuuzhan Vong are. Well Corran is mainly right about most civs being already used. Only Bespin and the Hutts are left(also include Ewoks but most people think it's a stupid idea). The Mon Cal are there but beside B-Wings and Cap ships there isn't anything about them(they would be 98% EU). And Wookiees! They are 99% EU and they are there! Answer to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Corransec, that argument is all well and good, but it still doesn't change the fact that EU is not popular enough to sell games on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok Corransec, that argument is all well and good, but it still doesn't change the fact that EU is not popular enough to sell games on. Oh Vostok! There is a big difference between selling a game that is 100% EU and a game that is 80% canon 20% EU(just an example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad And Wookiees! They are 99% EU and they are there! Answer to that! Wookies, at least, are canon. Anyone who is even the most casual fan can tell you what a wookie is (oh, you mean that big hairy apeish creature that worked with Han?). I mean heck, Chewbacca was a major character in three of the movies. Where the heck in any of the movies do you see a Vong for even a split second? Ackbar and crew received movietime as well, so even would be more recognizeable. Would they have to use EU to flesh out their backgrounds? Unless Lucas himself is looking start writing for the games. Personally, I'd prefer to see some of the other races we've seen in the movies get fleshed in the game, then draw upon some civ that's entirely EU. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Well Corran is mainly right about most civs being already used. Only Bespin and the Hutts are left(also include Ewoks but most people think it's a stupid idea). The Mon Cal are there but beside B-Wings and Cap ships there isn't anything about them(they would be 98% EU). And Wookiees! They are 99% EU and they are there! Answer to that! The Vong are 100% EU, which is a big differemce seeing that anyone not familiar with EU would recognize 0%, whereas with the Mon Cals and Wooks, they at least can recognixe something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Kryllith, Sith: To quote myself from another thread, movie>EU Can someone tell what this discussion is really about? EU or the Vong? I kinda lost track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 7, 2002 Author Share Posted December 7, 2002 luke - the Wookies may be 99% EU, but the more important bit is that they are 1% canon. This means that fans will recognise the civ, and, as many fans are fond of chewbacca, will be more inclided to play as the wookies than if they hadnt read any of the books and had the option to play as the Vyong Veng. I will use myself as an example here. Until i actually vistited starwars.com, i didnt even know that EU existed!!! Hence, i would not know what any 100% EU civs are, and would be wondering to myself why they were put in a Star Wars game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 So are the Hutts and the ewoks! You don't seem to like those very much. I will repeat it once again that I want a Yuuzhan Vong civ ''IF POSSIBLE'' because we should put movies>EU!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Can someone tell what this discussion is really about? EU or the Vong? I kinda lost track It was about unique units replacing regular ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 1% Canon is a lot more recognisable as Star Wars than 100% EU. As an example of this, I quote a couple of pieces of pop culture: "I bent my Wookiee." - Ralph Wiggum (The Simpsons) "Go back to Endor, you stupid Wookiee." - Eric Cartman (South Park) Whereas these lines are funny, they would have just been weird if said as follows: "I bent my Yuuzhan Vong." "Go back to your other galaxy, you stupid Yuuzhan Vong." My point is that most people would think it was great to see the famous Wookiees fleshed out, but wouldn't care about a race that wasn't important enough to be in the movies. And yes we seem to have strayed somewhat from the original topic, but threads tend to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Allright let's get this over with! A Yuuzhan Vong civ is only a possibility! Why? Because MOVIES>EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 If movies>EU, why would the Vong be a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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