Young David Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu Andy - how would having an OPTION make people eternal rookie's? The whole point of an OPTION is that you can use it if you want to, but you dont have to. Because people would leave it on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu Andy - how would having an OPTION make people eternal rookie's? The whole point of an OPTION is that you can use it if you want to, but you dont have to. Without this option a player would come online load up SWGB, play his first games with newbies and have fun, get better as he watches people. Being competitive he will players but than him after a certain time he will be rushed and try to copy that. When he knows how to rush he's no longer a rook. With this option a player would come online load the games, play online like last person keep getting better, gets rushed one day and loses, keeps with the no rush option on and then never learns to rush just keeps playing Newbie/Rookie games. Whilst player from the first example is learning how to Fighter rush, Turret rush etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Care to explain exactly why those who dislike the strategy of rushing should be disadvantaged because people such as yourself dont want to give them the CHOICE? Many gamer's consider rushing a cheap strategy and dislike it, so why should they be denied the opportunity to play an online game without the fear of being rushed? If member's choose to have the no-rush option off, the game would be the same as it is now. If they choose to have it on, a great deal more people will play online and get greater enjoyment out of the game. Let me ask you this question, in respect to firearms, should citizens be given the CHOICE of whether they want to own one or should you tell them how to run their lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarthMaulUK Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 It's great to be an expert at a game but for a majority of the Battlegrounds community, they are not. Only a handful of experts played the game with the masses being rooks, who were not made very welcome by the expert community (as in any game) and after a good beating by experts within 20 minutes, the rooks decided that making scenarios would be easier and make things more FUN. Fun is the key word and if you die inside 20 minutes, that is just a a waste of time for all those concerned. If rooks wish to improve then they can at their own pace rather than get dragged into tough games. One year on, where are the experts now? All playing something else while Battlegrounds has turned into a anti-rook community with rude and abusive members on the zone. Those who are not experts SHOULD be considered when and if LA make Battlegrounds 2. DMUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu Care to explain exactly why those who dislike the strategy of rushing should be disadvantaged because people such as yourself dont want to give them the CHOICE? Many gamer's consider rushing a cheap strategy and dislike it and dislike it, so why should they be denied the opportunity to play an online game without the fear of being rushed? If member's choose to have the no-rush option off, the game would be the same as it is now. If they choose to have it on, a great deal more people will play online and get greater enjoyment out of the game. Let me ask you this question, in respect to firearms, should citizens be given the CHOICE of whether they want to own one or should you tell them how to run their lives? If everyone would play no rush, games would be no fun. Experts would keep playing the same people. When you're a rookie games are no way as fun as when you're an Inter or expert. Games get better, more intense, bigger battles, more comebacks. More importantly Experts win more games, people like winning games. What makes you think there would be more people playing online with a no rush option? If you've never played RTS you wouldn't know, you would have had to play a fair bit of another RTS to experience rushing. If we did have a No Rush option, The strategys's would be much more boring. You could build 100's of turrets and there would be no way of stopping you. You could wall off the enemy. Basically if we got a no rush option, you might aswell be playing Sim City.... Windu, define rushing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by DarthMaulUK Fun is the key word and if you die inside 20 minutes, that is just a a waste of time for all those concerned. If rooks wish to improve then they can at their own pace rather than get dragged into tough games. One year on, where are the experts now? All playing something else while Battlegrounds has turned into a anti-rook community with rude and abusive members on the zone. Those who are not experts SHOULD be considered when and if LA make Battlegrounds 2. DMUK Why should people waste an hour and twenty minutes to kill someone when they could do it in twenty minutes? If you look on MFO or SWHG you will find loads of experts posting strat guide, most which are to help Newbies & rookies. The experts/inters where trying a lot harder to stop Scen players than most the rookies. Most of the good players try not to join games lower than there skills and when they do the try not to rush, It's a lot more newbies coming into Expert or good player games getting rushed and moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 The arguments against the option for no-rush are largely based on the assumption that the consumer would not be smart enough to turn it off when they are not a rook anymore. People (well most people) are smart! They will turn it off when they get bored of the same T4 battles over and over again. I know if the option were implemented I would not use it because I think no rush is boring, but there are some who like to play without rushes and they should be allowed to. MANY people who join games below their skill level will just rush the rooks to feel special - disobeying the rooks' "code of honor" and wrecking a rook game, possibly turning some of the players off the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Simwiz, its not that they dont know how to turn it off, but they wont want to. Its like bowling. People who learn how to bowl with bumpers will never try bowling without them. The option inhibits growth towards being better players. And then the game falters as the good players fade and no one is there to replace them. Very few people "newb bash", and even then, it doesnt matter if they rush and kill the newb in 20 minutes or wait and kil them in 40. DMUK, non-experts are always considered. Why do you think black forest was a map or why fighting in t4 is as fun as fighting in t2? It is just that they have to expert-proof the balance and such because experts can tweak balanced games more than newbs can. And the communtity hasnt turned anti-rook, and most of the idiots on the zone are rooks themselves. Windu, I take it you dont play zone games. Newbs play Newbs and Rooks play Rooks, both of which dont like rushing thus never rush themselves. And the progression through the ranks happens gradually as players streamline their economies and beef up their militaries. One day, the rook decides to try out a strat that they read online, and, after a few tries, gets the hang of it. And then they arent rooks anymore, but low inters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Maybe we could do something like blizzard did with Star Craft, add a record of victories and defeats.It is not gonna solve the problem at 100% but it might be worth a try. No-Rush Option: It will not solve anything. The newbs are gonna get bashed after the no-rush time. that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad Maybe we could do something like blizzard did with Star Craft, add a record of victories and defeats.It is not gonna solve the problem at 100% but it might be worth a try. SWGB online community has been trying for something like this for the last 6 months, LA & MS have serious problems arranging anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Very few people "newb bash" I can't believe you are saying this. How many inters or better, when we were still learning how to play AoM and were having Rook games, joined our games and had massive armies in our bases when we had just gotten to Classical? N00b/Rook bashing is alive and well, especially on ESO with their win/loss record. Many people out there have no life and will bash players of lesser skill simply to beef up their win/loss record. And we are inters at AoM, yet we are more likely to lose a rook game than an inter game simply because of the huge numbers of people who rook bash. I have tried it just to check, hosting inter games, rook games... on average there are more "good players" in the rook games... sad. Therefore there is simply no way that rooks can depend on a code of honor. In my very first AoM game with the Alpha, a Newbie game, someone who had played several joined and had an army in my base in <8 minutes. Noob's don't rush n00bs. But experts rush n00bs and that may turn them off the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Too bad were not talking bout AoM;) But hes right, ratings, although cool, add more problems to this issue than they fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Wow, why have I never posted here before??? First, you have to define a rush. I'm guessing you mean a worker rush... If you didn't rush, games would take forever. And by hitting you're opponents economy, you give your side a great advantage and can turn a borefest into a much shorter game. Games where no one wants to attack aren't much fun. And any rush can be defended... the problem is there are so many ways to be rushed, you can never guess the right way all the time. Though there's something about that T2 expert mega-mountie rush that I can't get the hang of just yet... It's just a matter of learning as you play and how to progress your style. When I first started to play on the zone I got slaughtered... a lot. I now consider myself pretty good. I learned from my ass whoopin's. If you go into every game with the same strat and style of no D and wait to long to get some offense up, you'll lose every time. Remember it's a WAR game, stategy and numbers are what win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE_Vader_536 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 ok think about it. what makes a game fun? is it winning or being challenged? as a person who had to withstand the under tech 3 attacks of having the demo i was rushed often while goin through the learning process. I was challenged further more when i got the game. now look at me. im a rather mediocre expert. without rushing you wont be prepared to play as if to expect the unexpected. isnt that how life is and shouldnt that be how the games in our lives should be? BE REALISTIC! winning isnt everything if you learn to prepare yourself for a rusher than you will have success if no then losing teaches you more than winning. rushers make you a more diverse defender able to defend against the odds. so think about it do rushers help you or make things worse? yes its cheap BUT U LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES AND LEARNING MAKES YOU BETTER!!! Oh and if anyones interested i have a new rpg out. email me if you wanna try it out. thanx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Losing is critcal for success. If you lose about half your games, then you are being challenged and playing at the right level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 i lose most of my inter games And i mean the REAL inter games, not the people who are rooks claiming to be inters and WTF is this "inter+" crap? what's the difference between an inter+ and an expert? and to the person who said no rush could knock them out of a game... you haven't been rushed right then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 I've been rushed and beaten by players, but they were self-admittingly much better players. Rushes should never knock out you if done by someone of your skill level. Inter+ is just a way of saying high inter or good, but still not good enough to be experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Originally posted by pbguy1211 (1) i lose most of my inter games (2) And i mean the REAL inter games, not the people who are rooks claiming to be inters *cough*simwiz2*cough* (3) and WTF is this "inter+" crap? what's the difference between an (4) inter+ and an expert? 1 - And I win most of mine. Infer what you want from that. 2 - Well if a game says inter, and inters join, and I am winning those games consistently, then I am an inter. And you need to start acting your age, one seeing your post would think you are 8 years old. 3 - The inter+ is because just saying inter landed us in games with rooks who cried when attacked before T4; I was hoping saying "+" would get some actual inters in. 4 - Think about what you are saying. Asking the difference between a good inter and expert is like asking the difference between a good rook and an inter. Besides, even if I were a rook that would be better than what you are, a pathetic n00b basher. Don't even bother trying to deny it, both Sith and I have seen your zonename in n00b/low rook games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Originally posted by simwiz2 Besides, even if I were a rook that would be better than what you are, a pathetic n00b basher. Don't even bother trying to deny it, both Sith and I have seen your zonename in n00b/low rook games. Hey, I join a rook game here or there occassionally, but sh!t happens when the zone is filled with crappy scenario games in most of the rooms and you can't find an RM anywhere. If it's the only one, yes I'll join. But I don't rookie hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Originally posted by pbguy1211 (1) You don't play real inters... that's my point. You aren't that good. (2) Remember the game we played where I slaughtered you? (3) I believe I still have the file saved in case you forgot and need the reminder. (4) Hey, I join a rook game here or there occassionally, but sh!t happens when the zone is filled with crappy scenario games in most of the rooms and you can't find an RM anywhere. If it's the only one, yes I'll join. But I don't rookie hunt. 1 - So according to your statement inters never join games that say inter and rooks are always joining? A bit dumb IMO. Besides, you are not the judge of who a real inter is. If I am consistently winning inter games then I am an inter. Using your logic if someone is good and winning expert games they are really a rook because they aren't playing "real" experts. 2 - Remember the game where I slaughtered you and you proceeded to whine about the speed? At least I lost gracefully, you resorted to whining when you lost. 3 - I believe I still have the screenshots of the game where I crushed you and was in T3 while you were still in T1 or T2... which was much more of a "slaughter" than what happened to me in the other game. I beat you decisively in that game... in the other game you beat me marginally. 4 - Ok, *cough* occasionally *cough*. Sure, a likely story. It seems like you are a lonely middle aged person who has no life other than a game and must win, even against n00bs, to feel better about yourself. If there are no inter games or open games just plunder a scenario game, spam till the morons leave, and turn it into an inter RM game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Dude, you're an angry little kid. You need to lighten up in a big way and take some things said way too personal. You can't take a joke, and you jump down your lone friend on this board in Sithmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Originally posted by pbguy1211 No, because it never happened. (1) The game with the screenshots you have is the game i quit because of the lag. (2) Ask your bud Sithmaster. (3) I've only played in 2, maybe 3 games you've ever been in. (4) 1 I quit, another (5) I whipped you. (6) And i think the other sithmaster got me. (7) If I remember correctly. (8) You and I have never been intangled in a multiplayer game. (9) Period end of story. (10) Dude, you're an angry little kid. (11) You need to lighten up in a big way and take some things said way too personal. (12) You can't take a joke, and you jump down your (13) lone friend on this board in Sithmaster. (14) And you don't seem to have a good memory either. (15) Middle aged? Don't think so. Not even close. I'd be your slightly older brother at best(worst?) in terms of age. Get bent, then get back to me. 1 - LOL you keep getting new excuses! You quit because of the lag? That shows your stupidity - there was no lag! Unless your computer is incredibly slow, because I had P4 and ADSL, Sith had P3 and Cable, and whoever your ally was didn't cause me or Sith any lag. You claimed to have left because of the normal speed, despite normal speed being specified in the game description. May I recommend you take a course in reading? OR, perhaps you quit because you were in T1 and I was in T3 and I had a forward base and was wasting your base? Sith wasted your ally, I had destroyed your chance at victory before Sith even had units anywhere near you. 2 - My bud Sithmaster has an inane childlike fascination with flame wars and will say whatever he believes will make the flame war last longer. 3 - We have played in 3. First one I slaughtered you easily. Second one, Sith slaughtered you easily. Third one, you were winning when my sister took the computer from me. If we were to finish that game you would probably win, but then we would still be 1 to 1. I should be like you and act like an 8 year old. Noo, I left because my sister needed the computer, you never won! Or, even worse: I don't remember this game that you beat me in! Oh wait, that one? I left because of the lag, you never beat me! Grow up and stop crying. Or take a nap, you may be less cranky afterwards. 4 - Yes, you quit. Which of course turns it into a draw despite my victory being imminent. Your logic reminds me of AoM drop trickers. People like you are a detriment to the gaming community. I suppose our 1v1 game was a draw as well, as I left when my sister needed the computer? If you quit a game, you lose. You can't turn a loss into a draw by quitting right before you are about to lose. 5 - You beat me marginally, making us 1 to 1. 6 - Yes, Sith is better than you. And as Sith and me are very evenly matched, I am at least as good as him. Have you ever considered that I had never been mech rushed before that game, and that because you won that one game doesn't make you better than me. To only hear about it (as I did) one would think a grenadier or 2 can completely stop it. Pbguy < Sithmaster < Simwiz2 7 - You don't, as always. Don't worry though, it is natural for people to warp memories to favor them. We need screenshots for objective information, and those we each have of one game. 8 - This is an example of how you need to think before you post. No explaination needed, just reread your post a few times. A perfect Windu-like self-contradiction. 9 - Uh oh! I can't argue against THAT evidence! 10 - No angrier than you. You are the one who is so furious that you feel the need to restart a long-dead flame war. You are the one who is so enraged that you come onto this forum b!tching about locked rooms on the zone. Do you realize that most of the people on these forums (who will actually see your post) enjoy the game and would not do that? It seems you misplaced your anger. As of about 9pm eastern, I can't get a RM game in CC 1 because 8 people have locked themselves in 8 different rooms. Thanks a lot a-holes. I hope you feel really big and proud that you're that big of losers. 'Nuff said. Take an anger management course. 11 - I think rewording this sentence is advisable, as it can be interpreted in 2 very different ways. One of them is that I need to take some things way too personal. 12 - Actually if you go back and look at the thread you will see that I played along with your "can't play on fast speed and unexplored" joke (if you can call it a joke, it was neither good or funny) until you turned it into a flame war. 13 - You mean most of my friends don't go on these boards? That's true. So what? 14 - Well, apparently neither of us do, but at least I have screenshots to back up my claims. I can repost them when I get home. 15 - Well, then don't act like a lonely middle aged person who has no life. Okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted November 29, 2002 Share Posted November 29, 2002 you need to find a better way to express/control your anger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 29, 2002 Share Posted November 29, 2002 You two should feel ashamed of yourselves:tsk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted November 29, 2002 Share Posted November 29, 2002 No one cares who's the best, geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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