distorted/lsd Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I'm usually not one to complain but when I find a map that has been highly rated I guess I expect at least a little bit of quality... which makes me think, "How ****ty could the maps that are very lowly rated possibly be?". I mean come on, how are these maps actually rated? I guess if it has something to do with the quality, er lack there of, of the maps that have been released for SP. Then I guess these could be considered a bit shy of half-way decent. Most of the SP maps that I have downloaded are well below any thing that should be considered quality, no offense to the creator's of these maps as I'm sure a great deal of work/time has been put into them. But how can maps that are missing textures, models, riddled with bugs (misaligned textures / brushes within brushes / etc. etc. etc.) even be considered to be 4 star plus maps? Maybe the reviewers at jkii.net are just incredible morons blind in one eye to the facts... But let me ask you this what happens if a good map is released at sometime? Then these high-quality maps would thus be in the same "league" for lack of a better word as these disgustingly mediocre maps... I don't consider myself to be a great mapper, as I have never created anything that I would even consider releasing, but I have pulled better maps out of my ****-filled ass in a couple of hours work than some, if not most, of these available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000nate Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Personally I found your text quite offensive. As you said people might spend lots of time on these maps and allthough they might not be perfect I believe that they have some quality to them. The people who created these maps may be new to the map making process but one way or another they have to start somewhere and releasing maybe a map that doesn't fit your high standards is a way people learn. Like my first map was sooooo crappy. Allthough I never bothered realeasing it people might have still appreciated the work and effort I put into that map. :Keep in mind that the people at jkii.net don't rate them, people like yourself (the player of the map) views it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000nate Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Oh yeah and you shouldn't post another thing of this nature here. Because lot of those people at jk2 forums might have submitted one of those so called horrible maps (in your opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distorted/lsd Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Obviously you misinterpreted some of what I had said. This was my opinion... My standards aren't incredibly high but many of the problems could have -EASILY- been found with a quick play through as many of the maps problems were at the very beginning of the maps... As you stated the ratings are done by users which is a grave mistake on my part, I should have definantly looked into this before posting my original message. My post wasn't meant to offend but I can see how it would offend people... In which case I should have taken my own advise and read through my post before I had sent it in. But seriously, in regards to your second post, I could really care less who sees my post. Did I single out any maps at all? No, I didn't. The only maps I had singled out were SP maps in general which have a definate lack of quality to them compared to MP maps that have been released. Now, albeit I do know that making a SP map can't even be compared to the difficulty of making a MP map. A SP map is so much harder and contains so many more things that need to be done. Don't think that I don't have any respect for the time and effort that was put into these maps because I do. This was merely meant as a critique on the lack of apparent play testing that some of the released maps seem to have. Like I said after reading your replying and since reading my own post I realize that it came out as more of a angry slam against the SP mapping community and jkii.net (which have nothing to do with anything I posted about). I would like to whole-heartedly apologize for the way that this originally came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeoffyouhoser Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I agree with this distored/lsd guy. Most of the Sp maps do suck and the ratings are far too high for most of them. That new Hoth level is fine, and months ago, that one Imperial Base level was great... Not the one where you start in a crate, but the one where you start in the two connected hangars.... i liked that level alot.... Now, albeit I do know that making a SP map can't even be compared to the difficulty of making a MP map. A SP map is so much harder and contains so many more things that need to be done This is true... its really a pain in the ass to make a SP level. The hardest thing is the realism. Making the area believable is my hardest challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Yeah, many SP maps has got high rates even if they contain misaligned textures, or no texture fitting at all, or bad Z-fighting and such stuff. Of course some of it may have just passed through even careful beta-testing, yet much of it should have been removed, and easily at that. Still, as I have said before, SP map making must be a compromise. If you ever plan to release a map of any worth, you must ponder just how long to make it. As everybody knows, you can certainly make and detail your map forever. It's anyone's individuality how much time and effort he/she want to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000nate Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 emm....ummm *And there was a moment of complete silence and confusion* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Distorted is right. Most of the SP maps for Jedi Outcast range from mediocre to downright bad. It's basically due to the author's commitment. The levels aren't worked on long enough and are lacking in creativity. Good SP levels are on the way though. Sine's Nar Shaddaa and Jep's Han Solo level are two I am waiting for. Also, my level "Party Crasher" should see release in a few weeks, I've been working on it for about six or seven months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 First off, the rating system is only as good as the people using it. I have seen maps (mostly MP though) that have awesome eye candy but nonexhistant framerate. So they are effectively unplayable. Yet these "museum" maps always get very high ratings, while more playable levels with a pleasent combination of detail and framerate get picked apart and low scores. That says volumes about the mentality of many voting on a levels rating. Especially with SP levels, Beta testing is very important. A good rule to follow is NEVER beta test a level yourself. The more eyes the better. Also, many SP maps have a "rushed" feel to them. As AK said; "Also, my level "Party Crasher" should see release in a few weeks, I've been working on it for about six or seven months now." A good SP level takes time to create and polish, even if you have lots of time to devote to it everday. Levels whos read-me says the construction time was "about a week" is the first clue things will be amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Well that's exactly it. I've been making SP levels for a good few years now (Party Crasher will be my first JO release) and for it to be anywhere near decent requires a development time of at least a few months. It doesn't invade your life as much as people think, I have a real life to uphold and I still find enough time to edit. You only spend hours and hours doing it each day if you want to rush it and get it out the door, which is not good. I rarely edit more than a couple of hours at a time, which helps maintain an interest in it for me and help get things at a higher standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaster Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Have you tried my singleplayer levels? The Dark Alliance The Mainframe 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by AKPiggott Well that's exactly it. I've been making SP levels for a good few years now (Party Crasher will be my first JO release) and for it to be anywhere near decent requires a development time of at least a few months. It doesn't invade your life as much as people think, I have a real life to uphold and I still find enough time to edit. You only spend hours and hours doing it each day if you want to rush it and get it out the door, which is not good. I rarely edit more than a couple of hours at a time, which helps maintain an interest in it for me and help get things at a higher standard. I am in total agreement. While I have released MP maps, I am currently working on my first SP level. With it, I only edit a few hours a day, when I have the time. It makes things more fun and definately of higher quality design and content wise. I was surprised at all their was/is to learn compared to MP mapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicide20 Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 here take a quick peak at this WIP I'm working on.. No web link just straight ftp 12.238.182.218 guest guest123 FYI it still needs some script work, but then again it is WIP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_thomas Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Another reason SP maps are more difficult is that many people want SP maps to have a storyline. If you are going to dedicate a lot of time and effort into it. You want it to have a good storyline. Your level then must stay with the storyline and if you have a serious conflict (like falling to the dark side), you will probably want to create new characters. People may spend lots of time working this out and this limits their level. After lots of work, people may be desperately trying to get their map out and may have missed errors. SP levels are more difficult and some mistakes are more excusable after someone has gone through so much work. a good storyline and a level that fully complies with it deserve extra points when rated to some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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