Suggestions for the next 'Jedi' game

[Toa Tahu]

I don't see why JK and JK2 suffered from the 'munchkin syndrome'.The maps were decently sized to me and I had no difficulty moving around.

 

No,I don't mean one BIG map like Morrowind,but as if like Morrowind,in the main game levels there were NPC's that would give you certain quests in certain places to do.So you could hop on to Raven's Claw and go there and complete the quest and return to the main quest.

 

Also,I would like the game to be more 'story-orientated'.No more much action,but something in between Unreal 2 and Morrowind.I didn't mean to say it wasn't a FPS,did I?

[MasterHill]

Yeah single player cooperation mode so you can get people from the internet to go through levels. You could also choose like a private transport (such as a speeder, swoop bike etc...)

[Vairtis]

Well about open places I mean you can return to old places and it would be healing from like the thugs that you got rid of and it wasn't level after level it was just one big level and thats that. Also about the big thing it's true there porportions were horrible and there wass only one ship in the whole game you could go into!!!!! I mean the ipmerel (can't spell it) shuttle was so thin there was no way you could have fit into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I don't see why they had to lock pritty much everything up every door even on the Ladysluck two doors led to nowhere cuz it was never modeled I mean it was crappy that you couldn't go into the rainering session and there wern't enough doors by themselves locked or unlocked. Where were the students at the jedi academy supose to sleep in there trainering rooms??????????

[master_thomas]

I think those locked doors are for public and user safety . The jedi don't want visitors getting hit by a lightsaber or be attacked by one of the seekers. They didn't want you to interfere with what the jedi were doing. Actually, I think they didn't want to have to prove further realism. Standing in front of the guys practicing the force and getting pushed into stuff is not good because it would take away their common sense lol, but your entry could stop them and your exit can start them again. Losing an arm by standing on the duel platform (this could, though, be fixed by having the Jedi move to the waiting positions and have Kyle ask where Luke is. The seeker could have an enemy of a new team the jedi was on and neither attack you.

You are right about the Vairtis. Not only is it too thin for any human to fit inside without lying completely flat. You can also tell that the size is inconsistent because in the cutscenes, you can see Tavion and Jan standing straight up. Not only sizing problems in the shuttle, when Tavion enters it, there is no opening, just a diagnal brush leading up to it. Also, the doors in the Ladyluck did not at all have to be locked. Two small rooms are all that are necessary to limit the player a little less.

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by master_thomas

One question to stormhammer, how did you get the edit key in the message box?

 

Heh...very simple, really.

 

Right click on the button you want, select Properties from the pop-up menu, highlight and copy (CTRL C) the URL of the image...then just paste (CTRL V) the URL between the usual [ IMG] tags.

 

Anyway...to all you others, I get what you mean about OPEN ENVIRONMENTS now.

 

It's sort of like the HUB system Hexen used to use...where you can revisit areas you have visited before. Half-Life also allowed this to a certain extent. Although it can sometimes mean simply back-tracking (which may become boring if there is nothing extra to do in an area you have already visited) I have to say, I totally agree that it's a good idea. NOLF2 is another example where you can walk between levels freely - if they are interconnected on a particular mission.

 

Too many games simply lock a door behind you so you can't go back again, and it's pointless. For one thing, I've sometimes left health/ammo pickups in the previous level, and it's silly that I can't go back and pick them up.

 

The other thing I would not mind seeing is being able to select which 'mission' you want to undertake first. If you think back to Hexen, Quake, and even the Siberia mission of NOLF2, you have a choice of which section of the game you enter next - it does not matter which order you complete the mini-objectives. This makes complete sense to me. Sometimes you may have to complete something in a certain sequence...but you shouldn't have to do that all of the time.

 

As for scaling - I agree that some games seem to oversize. But I don't think it's such a problem in the Star Wars universe, given the diversity of races, which could potentially be any size. If you look at a game like Unreal, the oversized architecture makes sense, because the local inhabitants are about 8 feet tall. undersizing is another matter, and I agree that sometimes vehicles/ships are simply too small in relation to the size of your player character. Having said that, it's reasonable to assume that in some vehicles you would have to bend over/crouch down when entering them (like a car). Personally, I feel that if they're going to put a vehicle/ship in a game, you as the player should be able to at least open the door and take a look inside, even if you can't drive it.

[Vairtis]

E X A CT TL Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vairtis]

Oh and by the way after you save the first bunch of prisoners on aruts_topside look at the pillar stormtroopers comeout at and activate noclip go to the top (where the sky texture is) then go forwards if your not in the "imperial shuttle" then look down! And if you pass this on because of me plz mention me cuz I looked the whole map though for it. Also found some other secrets (if you want to know them then just ask).

[Toa Tahu]

Was it you who enquired about the 'open environments' now?I thought it was some other guy?

 

Anyway,if's also good if you can access other levels back.Even if they didn't,they should also make good sense why you can't.

As again,in Severance,for one of the first levels,you have to pass throught a wooden bridge.Then,a heavy stone boulder came rolling down,so you had to sidestep it.Safely whizzing through,the boulder tried to cross the ravine but the wooden bridge couldn't stand its weight and broke.That should make more sense than just 'rather simply,or spontaneously locked doors'.

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Toa Tahu

As again,in Severance,for one of the first levels,you have to pass throught a wooden bridge.Then,a heavy stone boulder came rolling down,so you had to sidestep it.Safely whizzing through,the boulder tried to cross the ravine but the wooden bridge couldn't stand its weight and broke.That should make more sense than just 'rather simply,or spontaneously locked doors'.

 

Yes, I remember that bit - a complete Indiana Jones rip-off.

 

You could also argue as to why there was a boulder there in the first place...but that aside, they could simply have used an old rickety bridge that collapses under it's own weight. There are many inventive ways to stop you going back into an area (for whatever reason), such as rock-falls in tunnels, earthquakes splitting the ground, an area being flooded with lava (which happened in Rune) etc. These elements can sometimes add to the gameplay experience...but more often than not they're simply devices to stop you from back-tracking, and half the time they're not needed.

 

Something springs to mind that one of the team working on Elite Force II recently said in an interview...the development team has so much to do that they just focus on a couple of levels at a time, get those out of the way, then move onto the next couple of levels. If they are simply going through the development process in a sequential way while following the major plot-points, it's hardly surprising that often games are very linear in format. I think they need to take a more holistic view...and that means building in level continuity and back-tracking from the planning stage. It's about not just having one entry point and one exit point...but having more of a hub (or even checker-board or brick-wall) design, where levels can be interconnected in the same way as rooms within those levels.

[ILR]

When it comes to believability of the level, I think we should all turn to our good lord Half-Life. The game was one giant level, so all prevention of backtracking fit in so natural with the envirnment scarcly anyone realized that they were being cut off from behind. If you couldn't go back, it was because you just jumped off a dam. Prior to the dam you could easily back track several hours of gameplay and it wouldn't phase the game the least bit, due to the ingenious engine.

 

As for JKII's respect, put a door only when the player can open it. I hated those extremely obscure hidden airducts that lead you to the next area. If there's gotta be some fancy airduct action, then make them as easy to spot as a door.

[Toa Tahu]

Originally posted by ILR

When it comes to believability of the level, I think we should all turn to our good lord Half-Life. The game was one giant level, so all prevention of backtracking fit in so natural with the environment scarcely anyone realized that they were being cut off from behind. If you couldn't go back, it was because you just jumped off a dam. Prior to the dam you could easily back track several hours of gameplay and it wouldn't phase the game the least bit, due to the ingenious engine.

 

As for JKII's respect, put a door only when the player can open it. I hated those extremely obscure hidden airducts that lead you to the next area. If there's gotta be some fancy airduct action, then make them as easy to spot as a door.

 

I totally agree with you in this one,ILR.Your idea sounds sensible and good to implement.Now,if just those playful LEC people would be here to hear this.

 

 

Originally posted by StormHammer

Yes, I remember that bit - a complete Indiana Jones rip-off.

Indiana Jones rip-off?How can that be?Severance's story is so much richer than that of Indiana Jones's one(no offence).

 

Yeah,that would be good too,in a way.Good to visit the old places,and see the corpses(or the polices' reaction to your enemies' corpses!)and then the people(NPC's) from the other level react to what you did.They can also attack you on sight if they don't like what you did or you killed their best friend(before you killed him,you'd be able to see that he was the former's best friend).

 

Oh yeah,BTW,how come it's only me,StormHammer and ILR that's replying to this topic?Read and reply,m8s!

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Toa Tahu

Indiana Jones rip-off?How can that be?Severance's story is so much richer than that of Indiana Jones's one(no offence).

 

I was only referring specifically to the giant boulder...not the rest of the game.

 

Yeah,that would be good too,in a way.Good to visit the old places,and see the corpses(or the polices' reaction to your enemies' corpses!)and then the people(NPC's) from the other level react to what you did.They can also attack you on sight if they don't like what you did or you killed their best friend(before you killed him,you'd be able to see that he was the former's best friend).

 

I totally agree. If you start killing in an area, then return to that area later on, you should be recognised by some of the NPCs. They could then run to find the local law enforcement - who should also be investigating the scene of your crime.

 

They could even do something like in NOLF2...where they start putting up wanted posters.

 

ILR - about Half-Life being just a big leve, yes it did seem like that, even though it was made up of many actual levels spliced seamlessly together. That was one of the game's strengths, and I wish we could see a lot more of that level of continuity in future titles.

[Toa Tahu]

Why isn't anyone replying?Please reply,guys.

 

Anyway,good,if you meant the giant boulder,StormHammer.

 

"Wanted" posters?Cool,good idea!!!

 

Hey,Stormie(I'll just start calling you Stormie,ok?StormHammer is too long a name,ok?),talking about HL being a huge level,Morrowind is also one that is glued seamlessly together,it's just loading the appropriate area when you go there.

 

However,I wouldn't like the next 'Jedi' game like that.Remember,you'll have to travel through lush worlds all around the Star Wars universe like (as in JKII)Kejim,Artus,Yavin 4(Pt. 1),Nar Shadaa,....etc.If only the levels in the same planet gets connected some way and you could go there for some quests or just for fun,that would be nice.

 

As for Saber damage,I just noticed something.Notice that no matter how fast or slow or powerfully any Jedi swings the saber,the damage is the same?That should be the damage system for JK3.Light stance is short range,medium medium,heavy is for wide range.That would be better,provided the damage was the same.Anyone with me here?

[ILR]

I think different saber stances should be completely omitted in the next game. The lightsaber is weightless (besides the handle), and unless we're in some kind of Star Wars novel, the length never changes as well as the damage it does. If a lightsaber passes through you, the same thing will happen no matter the 'stance'. Sure there can be different STYLES of dueling, but when we start to say things like "in blue stance the saber should do less damage and move faster" then we starting to get ourselves in trouble.

 

The saber needs to be logical. JKII saber duels is like Chewbacca livin on Endor with two foot Ewoks: IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. One of the most memorable moments in online JKII gaming was when a friend of mine (whose never seen the game before) watches me play a duel.... he says "I don't get it, how can you tell when they get hit?". It was a good question. Saber duels are complex in performance but simplistic to watch. (In the movies, it was pretty clear when someone won a duel )

 

Then I would spend a few minutes explaining that when the saber hits the opponent it does damage, but only a little damage, but if I slash it'll do more, unless he's slashing too and his hits mine then it'll be less or none at all, but if he misses then I do full damage. GAH!! MOUTHFUL! Single Player mode in JKII had exquisit collision detection, and faithful rebound animations when slashes are blocked. If you take a good look at the NPC opponents in SP if you slash at them the moment before your saber makes contact they animate a defensive stance much like Kyle's laser deflection moves. Such an ability was unavailable to the player in all of JKII, which I think is where the game took its biggest hit.