Dueling

[CorranSec]

Still, how big do you think a Command Center is? I think that Corvettes could work. And if not, surely there's some kind of big ship that works with the scale.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Actually you can see the bacta tanks in the reb command center(which are ok) and the stairs on the Naboo CC and also a few details in all the other CC which fits the scale. I don't want something like the Battlecruiser or the Science Vessel in StarCraft...

[Darth Zanatos]

I think all units should be able to move and attack at the same time. I'll take realism over gameplay. And Definitely YES on secondary weapons. Like TF Md's having the energy shells like in the movies. And they could have an auto fire where they shoot secondary weapons on their own.

[Darth Zanatos]

Sorry if i'm a little off topic. I just read the first page.

[Admiral Vostok]

I don't think we should have large ships. In the movies the presence of large ships had no effect on the battle. Let's examine them, shall we:

 

The following large ships have been seen landed on a planet:

Trade Federation Core Ship - Without the ring around it the Core Ship has next to no armament. The Core Ships did not attack at all in the Battle of Geonosis, although they suffered heavy fire from the Republic forces.

Republic Assault Ship - It is unknown what firepower these ships boast, but presumably if it was decent they would have flown them over the battle and taken out the Trade Federation Core Ships. Instead they landed away from the conflict and had to transport all the troops to the battle via gunship.

Techno Union Rocket - A sitting duck. Apparently this has no guns at all and is extremely vulnerable if you "aim right above the fuel cells".

 

So none of these ships attacked during the Battle of Geonosis. This could be because in atmosphere they are unwieldly, too slow, and too vulnerable. Therefore, they are not used in ground battles. If there is no space combat component to SWGB2, I would say not to bother with buildable large ships. It just isn't the way Star Wars ground battles are fought.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I would say having some kind of medium size assault transport would be great.

It's not too large and does an even better job in low atmosphere.

[CorranSec]

Vostok, please...... I realise that all of those are way out of GB's league, and I never hoped to include them. Did you miss what I said? I just want some ships that are bigger than medium-ships, like a big transport, an anti-starfighter frigate, et cetera. They'd be fun to use, good for gameplay, and for realism. Perhaps the term "Capital Ships" is a bit of a misnomer, but I don't think "Pretty Big Ships that Aren't Actually As Big as the Ones that You're Thinking Of, But Are Still Kinda Big, And Good at Killing Things" fits the bill either...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Technically, you already have the reb transport(Medium Transport)

which is a medium size ship. You can arm those...

[Admiral Vostok]

The only ship I can think of that fits what I think you're talking about is the Blockade Runner, and I still believe it wouldn't be used to the best of it's abilities in a ground battle.

[joesdomain]

I was just thinking about transports. I thought medium transports and Imperial Landers has some type of laser weapon for protection. It wasn't powerful like a fighter. They should put some type of weapons on shuttles to fight off enemy fight while it deploys it troops.

[CorranSec]

There we go, a perfect example- the Corellian Corvette. This could be a New Republic base-assault ship, just off the top of my head.

There's also all of the civilisations' big transports, like the Imperial Lander, Rebel Transport and so on we saw the in GB1. I think we had a big discussion about this a while ago, but anyway, they would be the Armed Transports, which can carry a whole bunch of things, have a decent anti-building attack, and are fairly slow. In contrast, smaller ships like the Lamda-class shuttle and the Republic Gunship would be Assault Transports, which are speedy, but can only carry 5/10 trooper-sized units.

And there are plenty more to be found in both the movies, EU, and our imaginations. Gameplay>Realism, Vostok- but these cap ships don't damage realism that much anyway!

[joesdomain]

Back to the dueling issue! I personally would like to see good duels between Jedi and Sith. I think it was a bad idea to just have both of them whack each other with a lightsaber like it was a stick. Lightsabers are lightsabers. They would slice through organic and some non-organic material like butter. They should have fighters where the blades actually make contact and show special effects. It would be cool if they could jump and do other acrobatic moves too. I suppose it could be done.

[Admiral Vostok]

Well if you're talking transports then I agree. But having a powerful medium ship is against what we see in the movies. I agree there should be assault transports (for troops, they are also decent on their own) and medium transports (for mechs, they are only lightly armed) but anything really powerful doesn't fit.

[joesdomain]

Imperial Landers could transport heavy weapons, mechs, etc. Imperial Shuttle transports troopers, bounty hunters, medics, workers, sith/jedi, probots,etc.

 

They should make the transports land will they actually deploy. In real life they wouldn't drop units to the ground. They would be killed or destroyed. Ships like Imperial Lander, Imperial Lambda Class Shuttle should fold wings has they do it like in the movies.

 

B-wings and X-wings should fold their wings when they are not attacking. All fighters and bombers should be able to land on the ground or return a hanger bay for storage when not being used.

[CorranSec]

A powerful medium ship? Well, they have to be powerful in some way. Fighters can be powerful. However, the big transport I was thinking of would be a capital ship, not a medium ship.

I think that some rather powerful things would fit. After all, it's Star Wars- aircraft are the big things, and some big ships would be great to use. They would still be balanced- no concerns there.

 

About the landing transports: That's a nice idea, joe, and I'd like to see it implemented.

However, I don't know if B and X-wings should fold their wings when not fighting. Closing S-Foils was actually going to be a special move.

Also, I don't think fighter-class ships should be able to land on the ground or be stored in hangars. It really seems pretty pointless, unless we incorporate a fuel system, and I'd hate to do that.

[Admiral Vostok]

Corran, I thought we weren't talking about Capital Ships? Please definine another ship that is the size of a Corellian Corvette, smaller than a Techno Union Rocket, and that would make a difference to a ground battle apart from giving an orbital bombardment.

[CorranSec]

We are talking about Capital Ships, but that can mean anything larger than a medium ship (ie the Millenium Falcon). I'm not thinking about massive Techno Union Rockets or Droid Control Ships anyway, but Gameplay>Realism still stands.

 

And another cap ship is the Imperial Lancer-class frigate, an anti-starfighter warship. It can be used in a ground battle to kill the enemy starfighters which are picking on your troops.

[joesdomain]

I personally think that each civilization should be given 3 jedi/sith units. Padawan, Knight, and Master for Jedi or Appreciace, Knight, and Master for Sith. They should better turning ability, faster speed and range. Better duels against jedi/sith1

[Admiral Vostok]

I vote against these large ships you suggest Corran. They have no place in a ground battle and as such are un-Star-Warsy.

[CorranSec]

They have no place in a ground battle? I already pointed out how they could have a place in a ground battle. Anything can have a place in a ground battle, and although some (like the Lancer) are designed for use against other ships, this can still make a difference in a ground battle.

Also, what about many other kinds of ships? The Armed Transport carries units that you drop into a ground battle. The Heavy Attack Cruiser (names are just what they do right now, unique ones will be created later) participates in attacks on bases. The Mech-Killer (names are also very stupid right now), um, kills mechs. And so on. The only point is that these are big ships. They could be solely designed for use in ground battles. They're just big ships.

And I'm not sure I follow your groundbreaking logic there. They don't have a role in ground battles, thus they are un-Star-Warsy? So an SD is Un-Star-Warsy... wow. I never thought of things that way.

[Admiral Vostok]

An SD has no place in a ground battle, so I don't see how this negates my argument.

 

We have seen on screen the five most important battles in the history of the Star Wars galaxy, and in none of them did an aircraft any larger than the Millennium Falcon have an effect on the ground. Space is different, but in space the capital ships are almost like buildings on the ground. In ground battles, larger aircraft have no place.

 

So if we don't see any of these medium-sized ships you talk of in a battle where they could quite easily have been used, most sensible people would conclude they are not Star-Warsy.

[CorranSec]

An SD is incredibly Star Warsy, and you said that anything that has no place in a ground battle is not Star Warsy.

 

We have seen some big battles, and many of the ground battles had large aircraft featuring in. The Rebel transport ships on Hoth? I'd love to have them in there, and they can be classified as Capital Ships for GB2 purposes. The Trade Fed and Imperial Landers are the same thing- they got the armies down there. The Trade Fed Droid Control Ship played a huge part in the Grassy Plains battle. All of those big rocket towers and the TF battleships in the Battle of Geonosis were crucial ("Don't let them get away!" or some such). And so on.

 

Things shouldn't be disregarded simply because they weren't seen in the movies. We've used dozens of units to patch holes and expand upon the established stuff, and the game would be quite terrible with only the movie units. If I can give you ships which are of sensible size to play a part in a ground battle, are fun to play with and are quite Star Warsy, how can you say no simply because they weren't in the Battle of Hoth?

[Admiral Vostok]

you said that anything that has no place in a ground battle is not Star Warsy.

You know I meant "anything that has no place but is included anyway". Let's not be nit-picking here.

 

While all of your points are true, none of the examples you mentioned attacked anything on the ground. Therefore, the only reason to bring them into a ground battle is to transport troops. I intend to include the Rebel Transport, the Imperial Lander, the Trade Federation Lander and the Techno Union Rocket. However, their primary purpose is transportation, not attacking. They might have an attack, but you won't be bringing them to battle because of their offensive skills.

[CorranSec]

Well then, I'll give some more examples. What about that Lancer-class frigate? You use it against starfighters, and it might be decent against troopers too. The Flying Fortress is good against mechs, especially light ones. The Heavy Assault Cruiser is good against buildings, especially defensive buildings. The Defender is good at absorbing damage and packs a hefty punch against artillery and heavy mechs. And so on.

All of that is just off the top of my head, and it's easy to see how cap ships can be balanced and perfectly good to use in a ground battle.

[joesdomain]

I would like to see B-wings, Imperial Lambda Class Shuttles, and of the smaller aircraft added as buildable units to their respective civilizations.