Marker0077 Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk How is blatently dissing most of the coders on these forums gonna help our community?! i'm not sure you actually meant to come across the way you did, but from where I'm standing (well, sitting and typing! ) - I have to say it seems a bit out of order to me. Although, to be fair, the wording of the title of this thread - for example - doesn't help matters either really! I agree with Razorace 100%, name 1 mod that gives something useful to the community? Before you answer, do not compare server-side only mods to server & client-side only mods, they are not in the same ball game comnsidering anyone can join server-side only mode with no downloads. Any n00b can do that. Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk And what is the deal with everybody wanting to put other mods down to make theirs look better? Isn't it actually possible that all mods have their own good points in their own right - and appeal to a certain sub-section of gameplay? i.e. they don't nessesarily have to be pitted against each-other in this manner... No one's putting any mod down here, a coder perhaps (& there's really only 1 that we would be referring to, any person really into this scene knows exactly who I am referring to & why), but never a mod. The thing is, most mods never get finished. Again, if you think we should be holding some other mod in such high regard, give us an example so we can address it accordingly. Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk You are probably right in your apprasial of the coders in the community (from a given relative ability scale) - fair enough. And you are - without doubt - amongst the top of the pile - fair enough again. ...but - so what? What do you want - a medal? I don't see how tearing down other people's work and ability helps in anyway whatsoever. (I'm not going to ask where I stand in your little JKII coding league table - if at all, because to be perfectly honest, I really dont care...) A medal? No, we didn't take a bullet for our country if that's what you mean (I realize you are exaggerating). You want to know what we want? Ya, I've got a couple for ya... #1) I little recognition would be nice (ie, you see a news post about our work, take a few minutes to read about it). #2) How about RTFM. We spend days & nights working on the mod, you think you can take 5 minutes out to read the manual? 95% of the people out there are just to lazy to read the manual & waste our time with n00b questions. #3) Constructive critisism instead of complaining about what you don't like. There's nothing wrong with saying "hey i have a problem with this", but most people just do it in a most useless fashion. We need feedback to improve the work, you want to complain about something, go do it in a hate thread - here, we want something that's going to help improve the community, not listen to someone cry about the 1 out of 100 features we messed up on. Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk I think your above post derives from your dislike of the fact that a lot of the most popular mods are - shall we say - 'technically inferior' to other mods such as your own. Again, fair enough, I agree with you and symphathise. But that doesn't mean these mods have no value or merit! And saying that kind of stuff you've just said doesn't help matters. See, I never took his post that way. It's sometimes difficult to understand a modders point of view without being one. I don't take what he's saying "your mod is crap", I take it as "here's where I think the mod should be at" kind of thing. I think you are taking what it is he is saying out of context, that never struck me that way, although, the majority of the mods in town have no game & you can quote me on that. There's JediPlus/OmniMod, MotF, Duelers, ProMod, xmod, & that's it (again keep in mind, I am referring to client & server-side mods only, server-side only mods such as JA are in a totally different class). Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk As far as co-operation, like I've said before, I don't think it's nessesary or desirable to try and come up with some kind of super-mod which melds all our ideas into one. Part of the appeal of a modding community is the VARIETY of games which can result. Why can't each of our mods go in different directions and do different things? As far as I'm concerned, that's the whole point! If all the mods had the same options, then it would be the admins choice of what to & what not to disable; But I don't think that is what he meant what he said that though, so it's kind of off topic. Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk As has been pointed out, we do co-operate to a certain degree... While I would LOVE for it to be possible for our community to somehow literally share features, I also see there are loads of problems and potential for people to just get effectively 'ripped-off', so I'm kind of resigned to this only happenning in rare, specific arrangements, which I guess is the way it has to be... Aside from the very slim possibility of MotF & Duelers joining together, no one said anything about sharing features, that's what releasing source code is for. As far as "rip offs" go, if you rip someone off, it'll be known. You may think your big bad @ss bob, but the reality is, how does all the REAL people in the community look at you (I know Razorace knows whom I am referring to when I say this). When it comes to people like that, they can't genuinely produce their own stuff, they are a "compilationer" & nothing more. In order to get it to work with their projects, they will need help & if they "rip you off", well I guess you can tell them to FO; But the reality is, the new real game in town isn't too worried about the old game, so they have no problem with helping out as long as credit is given in the credits section (ironically like anyone reads that). In the end, what goes around comes around, don't ever forget that, because that is so real it's sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I did post a reply, but I re-read and realised I'd kind of missed this bit... No one's putting any mod down here, a coder perhaps (& there's really only 1 that we would be referring to, any person really into this scene knows exactly who I am referring to & why), but never a mod. Hang on a sec...! I think it's very possible I'm not aware of the full situation here. I was not happy about - what I saw - as one modder talking down to most of the other modders on these forums simply because they were less skilled. (And please understand, I didn't reply the way I did because I was personally offended. OK, I'm not at the top level like someone of Razor's calibre is, but I'm confident in my 'level' so to speak...) But your saying this hostility all stems from mainly the actions of one guy?! I believe I know who your talking about btw. At least, I think I do... Who exactly are the people your not happy with here? It's possible I've gotten the wrong end of the stick. If I have, I can only apologise. I guess there might be 'history' here that I'm not taking into account. Or maybe we should just drop this. It's getting off topic anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I never meant it as a knock against the other modders. I was simply talking in relative terms. We basically need semi-pro level coders to take the game to the next level. Not very many people can operate at this level. Does this mean that their work is crap? No. Some people can do diffy Q; Some can only do algebra. It doesn't mean that the algebra level person's work is of a poorer quality. It just means they are at different levels. Marker does have a point about MotF. It's a work in progress, so game changing features come along in baby steps. If you've tried R3 B3 you'll see how different the saber combat is with ghoul2 blade collisions. That's just a early taste of the overall plan for saber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Ok, fair enough Razor. Sorry if I interpereted your comments the wrong way. ...I hope you can understand why I saw things the way I did though... I think it's obvious I don't get the full picture here. I haven't been fully active on these forums that long, so I don't think I fully appreciate the underlying dynamics of some of the comments being made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 It's ok. Misunderstandings happen a lot online. As for the issue of a "uber" mod for the community, sure, I'm bias for my mod but with good reason. I'm all about improving the basic gameplay but all the other mods I've seen don't really aim for that or have radical forms of implimentation. Duelers has done a large of amount of improvement to the dueling system and some JediMod tweaks but that's about it. MovieBattles has a neat Last Man Standing system but it's to the exclusion of everything else. Do either really mess with the fact that the fact that JK2 is basically Quake with hacking boxes known as lightsabers? no. Is that bad? No. It's just not what I'm aimming for. For me, the saber combat/Force system and it's relationship to the gun fighters IS the game. It's what makes it special. It's also the reason to mod for JK2 vs some other engine. Therefore, any mod for JK2 should concentrate on that stuff FIRST and the gamemodes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaledDur Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by Marker0077 This is nothing new, the blocking ability can be changed with all JediMod based mods.The swing is no different that the base game, so I have no clue what you are referring to. If you are referring to how the stances change while swinging, that's not different from base either, just looks different. With base, you may change stances while attacking & it may show you a different colored stance, but it doesn't actually change until you stop attacking. With Duelers (or any other JediMod based mod for that matter), it's the other way around. It shows you which color stance your in right when you can start making that stances colored swings. So that's really the same thing, just looks different. Ok to the first part, I didnt know that jediMod could be set to reduce your blocking chance based upon how close your crosshair was to being aimed at the attacker. I didnt see anything about that in the readme, whats the setting for it? To the second statement, I mean the saber trail looks awful. That sure isn't the same as the base game. Me and a couple of my friends have observed this. Is this something isolated to a certain hardware configuration maybe...? I dont know but it seems that if everyone had this error you would have known what I was talking about, so I guess its only visible on certain configs. And just for clarity here is what I see: Pictures The third one, where custom sabers is deactivated, looks almost exactly what the lightsaber trails looked like in some of the early alphas of JK2. Here's one And for the sake of completeness, the trails look nothing like this in any other mod I have played (jedimod, omnimod, etc). I have since found that this problem stems from the fact that JK2 decided to use the config file I had from omnimod, and didnt use the one from base (default config file). I got a config file from a friend who didn't appear to haev the problem and it appears to be working as intended now over all ranges of settings. However I still think the saber blur/trail effect looks a lot worse than what is currently in Omnimod, and the saber's aura is at least 2x larger than it needs to be. Perhaps a clientside option to turn this 'feature' off so we can just see a normal blur like that in Omnimod? If this was fixed there would be only a few minor, but very important, issues that would stop me from using the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by JaledDur Ok to the first part, I didnt know that jediMod could be set to reduce your blocking chance based upon how close your crosshair was to being aimed at the attacker. I didnt see anything about that in the readme, whats the setting for it? You don't aim at the attacker, you aim at what's attacking you, ie, blaster fire, another saber, etc; etc. As for which CVars it is, in Duelers it's m_bs & in JediMod it's mod_blockscale. Originally posted by JaledDur And for the sake of completeness, the trails look nothing like this in any other mod I have played (jedimod, omnimod, etc). Well, that is the JediMod system, we didn't modify it as far as I know, although I do know Lee made some improvements to soemthing like this in the new 1.2.1 version of Duelers, not positive on all the specifics. Originally posted by JaledDur I have since found that this problem stems from the fact that JK2 decided to use the config file I had from omnimod, and didnt use the one from base (default config file). I got a config file from a friend who didn't appear to haev the problem and it appears to be working as intended now over all ranges of settings. It has nothing to do with a different config file, a config file is not going to change what .jpg images get used for trails or anything else for that matter. Lee deals more with this than I do, I will see if he will be willing to make a post, or at least a comment so I can post it. Originally posted by JaledDur However I still think the saber blur/trail effect looks a lot worse than what is currently in Omnimod, and the saber's aura is at least 2x larger than it needs to be. Perhaps a clientside option to turn this 'feature' off so we can just see a normal blur like that in Omnimod? Again, as far as I know, it's the same system. Maybe Jason made some modifications to the saber trails for JediPlus, but Duelers is JediMod based. There already is an option to disable it, it's always been there. Same place as JediPlus too I believe (considering this is a JediMod feature & they are both JediMod based). I will see about having Lee look into this a bit more. We will probably be including a special version of the Episode 2 Blades mod so clients can use it with pure servers if they would like to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 I talked with Lee, we do use a different system then everyone else, we may improve it in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaledDur Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 "It has nothing to do with a different config file, a config file is not going to change what .jpg images get used for trails or anything else for that matter." It was obvious that it was the same JPG, as I think is fairly evident in my screenshots... Did you check out the screenshots? And when I changed out to another config file it stopped happening. I'm almost certain there was a setting in that file causing the trails to look like hell. I'll see if I can track it down for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 You probably just enabled the original saber blade colors; In other words, disabled RGB colored sabers. Again, we will probably improve it in the future but for now, we just have bigger fish to fry. I'm including a special version of the Episode 2 blades mod, I would think that would improve the trails as well, not positive. Keep in mind the Ep2 blades mod will be optional. You can look for this in Duelers Full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaledDur Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 The trails are a bit hard to swallow, but the actual look of the blade is moreso, so I should imagine inclusion of the sabers mod you spoke of will improve things. And although I agree that froma technical standpoint you do have bigger fish to fry, as you say, from the standpoint of a prospective user, the fact that a mod that focuses on the use of the lightsaber has the worst looking lightsabers of any mod I have played is a big thing. It sort of makes sense that others will see it that way as well... If they are playing your mod they obviously have a love for the lightsaber, and one that looks like hell is going to hurt your numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Hèkx Nòxú Shouldn't it be Duellers or is that British spelling? Anyway, I like the Non-interferance code duel feature. I may have to test this mod out again. I've played with the old FFAMod version. As for it dominating the JKII mod scene, probably won't. Everyone likes ProMod and OmniMod. Excuse me I find this quite insulting to my language. There is no such thing as the British language as there is English, Welsh Scottish, and for one the English spelling is the RIGHT spelling its duelers, if Americans want to borrow our language then so be it however I do not appreciate you implying that our spelling is the wrong spelling, when infact we are right since England (a part of Britain) created the English language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaledDur Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Count_D00ku Excuse me I find this quite insulting to my language. There is no such thing as the British language as there is English, Welsh Scottish, and for one the English spelling is the RIGHT spelling its duelers, if Americans want to borrow our language then so be it however I do not appreciate you implying that our spelling is the wrong spelling, when infact we are right since England (a part of Britain) created the English language. I smell a flame war brewing. Keep it to PM's will ya please? It all depends on your point of view. Therefore, no one is wrong, and everyone is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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