The Count Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Wavey Davey its not Raven who do the storyline its LucasArts! Raven merely create the game! LucasArts tell them what to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace_sundancer Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 if it weren't for the EU you wouldn't know who plo koon, aayla secura, saessee tiin, ki adi mundi and about fifty bazillion other characters all were so don't diss the EU. read it or don't read it, but don't criticise it for the sake of it. a lot of of the EU novels do hang together fairly well... the x-wing series and I, Jedi are the best novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Originally posted by mace_sundancer if it weren't for the EU you wouldn't know who plo koon, aayla secura, saessee tiin, ki adi mundi and about fifty bazillion other characters all were so don't diss the EU. I don't know about that. I have read very little of the EU, and none involving the above characters, and I know who they all are. As for dissing it, I'm entitled to my opinions and you are as well. That is a minor point though, IMO. The real point is that these stories are not a canon part of the Star Wars universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 "OMG leik EU SI CANNON LOOOZL" "OMFG STEFUU NOOB GERGE LOOKIS DIDNT MAKE IT IT NOT CANON N00B!!!!!11" Who ****ing cares? It's Star Wars one way or another. To me, Star Wars is Star Wars, I could ****ing care less what George Lucas or any other person affiliated with LucasFilm says. It has Star Wars on it. It has Star Wars characters and locations. It is Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 The EU is written and maintained by dozens of different authors and storytellers and designers. It can't be expected to be perfectly internally consistent, much less perfectly consistent with stuff made by Lucas himself, despite the level of creative control he might extert over their projects in a loose sense. Where some of us prefer to the pure canon over the EU material is that we feel that George Lucas knows his own characters and creations better than these other authors, and as a result of some of the inconsistencies, some of the EU stories and situations are well... "silly" or mediocre, or even poor copy-cat cookie cutter composites from the films or from other science fiction stories. In addition, due to certain continuity policies, once a "stupid" idea comes to light in the EU, chances are it will continue (what some of us like to call "brain bugs") forever and every in every story, no matter how ludicrous and annoying the incident or character. George Lucas isn't the kind of guy who never makes mistakes as a storyteller, but considering he made the stuff, I think he knows it better than anyone. Some parts of the EU are cool, but I don't think JKA can be held to an impossible standard. As long as it gels pretty well with the films, most people will be happy, including Lucas himself. Don't get me wrong, some things about the EU I like, when it comes to a game idea... I don't want to be limited to only 3-4 saber colors, or be forced to wear brown desert robes, or not be able to meet EU characters already established as existing in the series. On the other hand, I don't want to be beaten up by the "power of luminous beings" or have Yuzang Vong that are invincible kicking my butt, etc. or having to deal with thousands of clones of Emperor Palpatine and Boba Fett and Grand Admiral Thrawn rising from the dead endlessly (if you have to have these guys in the game, just have it set during the time when they were still alive... how hard can that be?). On the other hand, the gameplay is first and formost. Single player is more heavily story-driven, and that's the only place it will truly matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Originally posted by Emon "OMG leik EU SI CANNON LOOOZL" "OMFG STEFUU NOOB GERGE LOOKIS DIDNT MAKE IT IT NOT CANON N00B!!!!!11" Who ****ing cares? It's Star Wars one way or another. To me, Star Wars is Star Wars, I could ****ing care less what George Lucas or any other person affiliated with LucasFilm says. It has Star Wars on it. It has Star Wars characters and locations. It is Star Wars. I know what your saying, and I'm not trying to be say everyone is a noob if the disagree with me. But the initial post in this thread was complaining that Raven's story was all wrong because it didn't follow every last detail in the EU books. And I'm saying that they only need to follow what's in the movies. The JK series storyline is just as legit as EU material as the NJO or whatever. That's the point I'm trying to make about the EU not being canon. Raven is obviously allowed by Lucasarts to make the storyline they want, even if it doesn't completely fit with other parts of the EU. Originally posted by Kurgan On the other hand, the gameplay is first and formost. Single player is more heavily story-driven, and that's the only place it will truly matter. Ultimately, this is what really matters as far as the games are concerned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Most of the EU is crap now like finding Obi-Wans lightsaber, that was lost on the Death Star, which was blown up what the **** was that? Thats utter bull****, they should stop making crappy stories like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitMan Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Originally posted by Prime I don't believe that it has been stated that Kyle wasn't a teacher at the Academy at some point. So why is it not feasible that he was? It doesn't contradict anything, does it? Sorry this reply took so long:D What I meant was (and I'm sorry for any confusion I might have caused) that Raven are perfectly within their rights to add to the EU without blatantly changing facts. I didn't mean that it wasn't feasible for Kyle to be a teacher, I just meant that it hadn't been said in any other part of the EU before. I, for one, am glad that Kyle is becoming a more intricate part of the EU. Again, sorry for any confusion, and as had been pointed out repeatedly, its the gameplay that matters in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Who ****ing cares if he's not a teacher do you want a new game or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 C'mon man, chill! Of course he wants the game, but some ppl worry about the storyline being correct, nothing wrong with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Anybody who says that Kyle wasn't mentioned in the EU before Jedi Outcast is mistaken.... The Dark Forces books were about him (Soldier for the Empire, Rebel Agent, Jedi Knight) and there were made in time for JK. His adventures in MotS/JK2 were mentioned along with these in the New Essential Guide to Characters (though they get one fact wrong, saying he spared Sariss's life, as mentioned earlier). Kyle supposedly mentioned in passing in one other EU book. But the point is, he's part of the EU, like it or not. According to the NEGC he IS an instructor for the Academy, and working for the New Republic again. The EU stuff is overwritten the higher canon (the movies and their direct source materials), where it contradicts them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Kyle supposedly mentioned in passing in one other EU book. He's in the NJO at least once, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Kyle hasn't really had an appearance. Although I have yet to read the book, he is apparantly listed as "missing from a meeting" in the Force Herectic : Remnant book. (on a somewhat different related note, video game characters are mentioned more often in books... Keyan Farlander, the pilot whom you play as in the X-Wing games and its add-ons, has a pretty large role in Destiny's Way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by Burrie Kyle hasn't really had an appearance. That is true. However, he is recognized as an offical part of the EU universe, above and beyond just the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Indeed, Katarn's been one of those fellows who's really been slowly adopted into the existing EU. Mind you, Keyan Farlander(X-Wing), Maarek Steele(TIE Fighter), Brenn Tantor(Force Commander) and Ace Azzameen(Alliance) have been mentioned in various guides, but Katarn has his own entry in the official database, his own books, and a large entry in the New Essential Guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 He's in the NJO at least once, I believe. Yes, I couldn't remember which book though... I haven't read the NJO series after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 So far, Kyle has only been mentioned or referenced in the NJO. He has yet to be seen "on screen" in a book. (here's hoping that he'll have a cameo at the very least, prolly in the final all-or-nothing battle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 doesnt it say in the starwars.com databank that kyle was an invention of Raven in the EU, for use in it's games? im pretty sure raven invented his character, and the EU writers just incorporated him into their books But i couldnt care less if kyle was in JA (its not actually a Dark Forces game remember), i didnt really like his character anyway Now mara jade, she was a hero ...i dunno, im just a sucker for female hero's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 doesnt it say in the starwars.com databank that kyle was an invention of Raven in the EU, for use in it's games? im pretty sure raven invented his character, and the EU writers just incorporated him into their books Although Raven did not create him(they only worked on Kyle Katarn in Jedi Outcast, before that he was a character created by Lucasarts for the Dark Forces and Jedi Knight games), the EU pretty much incorporated him into the books. Like I said, this was a relative surprise, because video games tend to be ignored in the books. Then again, now that Keyan Farlander has received an appearance, Kyle shouldn't be too far behind. Now mara jade, she was a hero ...i dunno, im just a sucker for female hero's You know, in the theforce.net literature forums, you could've instigated an entire debate about how Mara had wussified Luke Skywalker, how she is extremely arrogant, the ultimate evil and bla bla bla... but I guess I'd better keep my mouth shut, those "discussions" can get ugly pretty quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by Matariel doesnt it say in the starwars.com databank that kyle was an invention of Raven in the EU, for use in it's games? im pretty sure raven invented his character, and the EU writers just incorporated him into their books As has already been stated, it was Lucasarts. However he started, Kyle is now more than just a game character, but part of the Star Wars EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 So far, Kyle has only been mentioned or referenced in the NJO. He has yet to be seen "on screen" in a book. (here's hoping that he'll have a cameo at the very least, prolly in the final all-or-nothing battle. I re-read the press release and other info (straight from LEC's site) and it says that you are trained by Luke Skywalker AND KYLE KATARN. How much he's in the game, is anyone's guess, but he IS in the game! Now to prove that statement wrong, since it keeps getting repeated: (hope these Amazon links show up!) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399141987/qid=1051737914/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-4861040-2596722?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1569711569/qid=1051737947/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-4861040-2596722?v=glance&s=books http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0425170519/qid=1051737984/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/104-4861040-2596722 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 PS, if you zoom in on the front cover illustration for the first novel, you'll recognize Kyle's "hand" holding the Lightsaber.... that's in the player setup screens from Jedi Knight (the game!)... (where you choose your saber color). Pretty cool. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I re-read the press release and other info (straight from LEC's site) and it says that you are trained by Luke Skywalker AND KYLE KATARN. How much he's in the game, is anyone's guess, but he IS in the game! Now to prove that statement wrong, since it keeps getting repeated: Eep, down boy, down! I was only referencing to the New Jedi Order book when I made that statement. I know that he appears in Jedi Academy, but I also know that he has yet to make an appearance in the New Jedi Order saga. He's only been mentioned there, but hasn't had an "on-screen" appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbe M'ko Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I just checked out this thread and saw THIS!: Lets say I make up a story for SW, lets say in that story 1 year after the destruction of the second death star Luke is killed in an accident... ops, now Raven should of course go after my little story and form their games after it... right? And yes that IS EU. That's just mind-numbingly ignorant! if your story was reviewed by guys like M. A. Stackpole and then published, then it would become part of the timeline. Lucasbooks makes specific reference to such "Infinities" and, although it publishes them, they have no effect on future "True" stories. EU is one of the most important part of the SW universe (both pre- and post-movie) and to dismiss it like that is just plain stoopid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbe M'ko Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 My opinion on the whole topic of game continuity is as follows: The game MUST follow the timeline. To do otherwise shows a lack of creativity. It's not hard to make up NEW characters for games and I don't think anyone really cares if Luke Skywalker doesn't make a cameo, the individual characters aren't as important as the rest of the SW universe. -Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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