Another review/preveiw....confusing article

[TheChosenOne-]

PC/Xbox Preview

by Duke

Category RPG

Preview Date 5/03

Planned Release Xbox - 7/03; PC - Fall '03

Publisher LucasArts

 

A new take on an old republic.

With the huge commercial successes of Everquest, Ultima Online and Lineage: The Blood Pledge, it seems like every company these days is working on a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG). From the depths of space with Eve Online to the deepest dungeons of World of Warcraft and even through the Halls of Justice with City of Heroes, dozens of vast new online worlds will be competing in the next couple years for our precious time and money.

But while MMORPGs offer unprecedented complexity, depth and community, they always fall short when it comes to story. Of course, you can't blame the developers, because there's really no way to do it. In a single world, you just can't have everybody playing the prince.

 

Which is why traditional single-player RPGs will never be replaced. There is no better gaming genre for storytelling, and there is nobody better at it than Bioware. Their classics like Fallout, Planescape: Torment and Neverwinter Nights broke apart the RPG mold, proving that there was far more to RPG gaming than just stat building.

 

And this is why I'm so very excited about Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (or "KOTOR" for short, which is what the Bioware guys call it). Coming out this year for both the Xbox and PC (the only difference being control), this looks to put some zing back into the single-player RPG scene.

 

This story-intensive RPG takes place four thousand years before Skywalker, Kinobi, Solo and the like were even born. Thousands of Jedi and Sith roamed the galaxy showing off their twirling light-sabers.

 

Though the Star Wars universe is notoriously rigid, you can forge your own destiny in this galaxy as a powerful Jedi, a sneaky smuggler, a brutal Sith or nearly anyone else you wish to be. Your choices and your destiny are your own.

 

KOTOR will reflect your personality in your character model. If you play as a Jedi and slowly drift over to the Dark side, you'll notice darker facial features, black eyes, etc. Likewise, play the good guy and you'll start to look all sunny and happy.

 

The game itself is based largely on the D&D 3rd edition gaming system, so all the familiar attributes from strength to charisma are here, not to mention plenty of D20 rolls. Weapons and armor can be bought, found and even upgraded and customized in your ship's workshop. Put a new crystal in your light-saber, tune it to yellow, and see what happens.

 

The gameplay will be instantly familiar as well, featuring the same real-time combat as other Bioware titles. You can still pause to queue up to 4 attacks or perhaps to just grab a beer.

 

You can travel across 7 planets, including Kashyyyk, Mannan and Tatooine with your party of up to three characters. You can even swap them out with other characters on your ship, depending on the situation. Going into battle? You might want that giant Wookie or a brutal battle droid instead of that flimsy Bothan, but you wouldn't want them along if you were trying to sneak your way through enemy territory.

 

KOTOR runs on an enhanced version of the Aurora engine, the same one that powered Neverwinter Nights. Hence, much of what made that game great is here as well. Fantastic lighting effects, smooth textures and a very believable SW universe give you a great playpen.

 

Add some professional actors providing the 14,000 lines of voiced dialogue (including Ed Asner) and a bunch of mini-games (including "swoopbike" racing) and you've got exactly the sort of top-notch product Bioware is famous for. Aspiring Xbox Jedi should be prepared for a July adventure, while their PC counterparts will have to focus on patience until this Fall. Either way, KOTOR is a Force to be reckoned with.

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WTH--"" The gameplay will be instantly familiar as well, featuring the same real-time combat as other Bioware titles. You can still pause to queue up to 4 attacks or perhaps to just grab a beer.""

:confused: :confused:

======Now,someone posted that you can choose the way you fight in this game,you got a option.Either hack-n-slash or menu scrolling...is that still a option,or am i stuck with menu scrolling combat.Look,i know this topic is old and all,but every other day,the info changes.Please bear with me.

[TheChosenOne-]

FOUND THIS AT GAMESTOP--NEW AND OLD INFO HERE--SORRY,IF ITS BEEN POSTED ALREADY

---

 

Preview

BioWare recently held a press event at its offices in Edmonton, Canada, to show off the Xbox version of its upcoming RPG Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. We were given a demo that provided an overview of everything the Canadian developer will be packing into the game, and we than had an opportunity to get some hands-on time with it. While Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is still quite a ways from shipping, it looked quite promising.

 

The wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk is a nice place to visit.

The demo of the game provided us with a closer look at several aspects of the game and even revealed some new details on its content. The demo began with a glimpse of several areas in the game in varying states of completion to give us a feel for how everything is coming together. We had a chance to get another look at some of the levels we saw last month and some areas we hadn't seen. The grasslands of Dantooine sported improved shadowing, refined lighting, and new ambient details such as flocks of birds moving in the sky. The interior of the Ebon Hawk, which will serve as your base of operations in the game and let you heal yourself, research items, and interact with the characters you can use in your party, sported improved dynamic lighting. We were able to see a variety of environments in Tatooine. The interior of a droid shop gave us a peek at a hammerhead alien and the precursors to the astromech and protocol droid models, whose later iterations would be recognizable as R2-D2 and C-3PO, respectively. We also got a look at one of the new droids to be used in the game--an assassin by the name of HK47. We saw another street exterior that featured awnings and tarps that moved thanks to the game's wind system and a ronto standing near a building. We were able to see the interior of a hangar that housed the Ebon Hawk as well. We got another look at Kashyyyk, home of the wookiees, which included more NPCs and refined lighting. The final area we saw bore more than a passing resemblance to Coruscant and featured wide-open streets and a healthy amount of traffic on the ground and in the air. An interior area in the same city showed off the game's combat elements as the main character attempted to infiltrate a Sith base.

 

You'll see some familiar faces in the game.

Besides showing off the graphical improvements in the game, the demo also revealed a bit more about the gameplay mechanics of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. The gameplay will be roughly divided into combat and exploration. Conversation in the game will change dynamically according to your character's force alignment and context. For example, early conversations will usually offer a general mix of light and dark options. However, as you progress through the game, your actions will start to align you with one side or the other and come to affect the tone of your conversational choices. Fans of the evil conversation options found in Baldur's Gate II will be pleased to know that Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic will take things up a notch and offer some dastardly options that should satisfy most players' inner dark Jedi.

More Than Just an RPGThe demonstration also revealed four minigames that will be included to offer a change of pace: a turret minigame, a racing game, a card game, and a gladiatorial arena. The turret game, shown previously at E3, is clearly an ode to the sequence in the original Star Wars in which Han Solo and Luke faced off against a horde of TIE fighters. You'll man the Ebon Hawk's turrets and take out waves of Sith fighters in a sequence that will pop up as you travel to various worlds. The racing minigame you'll come across on Tatooine is a precursor to the pod races seen in Episode I, although considerably more low tech. You'll need to pass over pads on the track to boost your speed if you want to get the best time. Although you'll be forced to play the minigame only once, you'll be able to voluntarily participate in various competitions in your travels, and you can even bet on the outcomes. There wasn't much revealed about the gladiatorial arena minigame beyond the fact that players will find one in the game and take on a variety of foes. There wasn't much revealed about the card game, either, but we do know that you'll have the opportunity to play against certain people you encounter in the game, and you'll be able to win cards and improve your deck by doing so.

You'll face off against some very familiar baddies in the game.

The presentation wrapped up by showing off some of the prerendered cutscenes in the game. Most were early and lacked sound, but the latter ones were more complete. The opening sequence showed off the expected introductory scrawl that is synonymous with the Star Wars franchise and smoothly flowed into a space battle that ended with a large craft being sent lurching toward a planet by a swarm of fighters. The other scenes ranged from simple shots of the Ebon Hawk landing on different planets, to more complex shots of ships going through a massive debris field in space. The last sequence showed a massive destroyer bombarding a city from orbit.

That looks like it could be Jabba's great great great great great grandfather.

Following the demo, we had the chance to get some hands-on time with an early build of the game and play through a sequence set in Hrakert station, an underwater facility on the planet Manaan. While still early and a little rough around the edges, the sequence gave us a taste of the game's combat, character interaction, and puzzle solving. At its core, the game follows many of the standard RPG conventions. You'll manage your party using menus and have access to an area map. We were able to interact with some scientists on the station who were under siege by creatures called Selkath. The conversation trees were fairly varied and gave us quite a few conversation options. The combat element is still being refined, but at the moment you'll have the ability to attack in real time or pause the game and choose your actions from menus to make fighting a bit more strategic. The puzzle we encountered forced us to use our heads and do a bit of math in order to avoid straying toward the dark side of the force--we had to overload a storage container in order to humanely drive away some surly aquatic creatures. While we've played only a fraction of the game, we were pretty satisfied by what we saw. The game looks good and plays fairly well. The combat is still a bit rough, but it's one of the things BioWare will be focusing in the coming months, so we expect it will be far more polished in the final release. Judging from what we've seen so far, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is shaping up to be a very ambitious game. BioWare is packing quite a bit into the game's graphics and gameplay, which should definitely give RPG fans something meaty to explore. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is currently slated to ship next year. Look for more on the game in the coming months.

[reptille00]

There is no hack n slash, you can either play in real time assigining attacks,feats, force powers etc. while the fight is going on ...or you can pause the game and que up the attacks, giving you more time to think of what attacks to select, you can even scroll through the diffrent characters of your party while paused and que up to 3 or 4 attacks (dont remeber if its 3 or 4) for each character if you dont want the AI to control them....unpause and just watch your qued up actions take place...I didnt read your long post, so I dont know if you answerd your own question in it, if not here's your answer. It's always been like this to my knowledge..except i think they took the slow motion pause out and replaced it with a still pause. I'm 99% sure this is accurate..if i'm wrong please let me know.

[Jedi Apprentice]

I don't think you can classify anything as an official "review" yet because the game isn't even out yet.

 

The previews don't state anything new, but still, thanks and I am sure some of the newer people will enjoy the read.

 

You might want to watch out for the double post though.

 

Edit button. It's your friend.

 

[TheChosenOne-]

No hack -n -slash...WTF.....

I just felt a disturbance in the force.

My desiree for this game is slowly gone now.You gotta scroll to fight?? Ok,let me get this right...i run into a group of sith,then the game freezes and i scroll down for a attack option????? Pleasse tell me you guys are kidding????? I'm not a big PC player,so i'm not used to those fighting menus and crap.

I guess i'm better off renting this,cause i might not like this menu fighting.....

[Jedi Apprentice]

You don't necessarily have to queue up your actions or use the menus, but it is highly advised by people who have played it.

 

You also don't have to fully stop the gameplay. When you go to the menus it can go to a slow-motion effect which keeps the game moving giving it a nice flow. (if they haven't changed that feature)

 

All this time you thought the game was hack-n-slash?

 

Go download some of the movies and trailers to see how the combat system works. Namely the 21 minute preview, the three E3 movies and the newest trailer. You can find the first two in other threads and the trailer will be at LucasArts.com

 

In case you didn't already know.

 

The videos do show off the game and it's combat very well though, so I highly recommend you to watch it.

[Hannibal]

ChosenOne your memory is worse than my mom's cat's memory.

 

This is the second time you've said that you thought the gameplay was hack and slash here. People explained it to you then.

 

Also you came here from the official forums where explanations of the combat were constantly posted.

 

I'm concerned for you. Are you ok? Do you have some sort of head injury?

 

Head injuries are serious. A person could fall on the way home and forget and not even know they fell.

[Burrie]

To quote the official FAQ...

 

17. How will combat work?

 

The combat will be rules-based and realtime. That means you will issue the main actions you want your character and party members to take, and they will perform those actions based on their stats. Since you have a huge number of Force powers, combat feats, weapons, and items to use in combat, in addition to the challenge of controlling a party of 3 characters, there is a ton of things to do during combat. The overall result is that the combat is quite strategic, but it plays out very fast, as though you were seeing an action sequence from a movie.

[TheChosenOne-]

My head hurts,,i was kinda confused.I couldn't download that 21 minute video,and every store i go to or person i talk to,everyone saids something different.

Yes,i did ask this before,and it was answered BUT that was before i had the idea to go buy neverwinter nights.Figured,since i couldn't download the damn demo,i'd buy the game.The game is sold out everywhere and then the crap hit the fan.All the store managers would talk about KOTOR,and tell me different stories.Usually,i don't believe it,but one or two of them are SUPER GEEKS-and know about that stuff.So,i did become confused and all.I mean,can you blame me...i'm not big into PC games and don't know sh*t about neverwinter.

So,forgive me o'great jedi masters.Hannibal,Burrie and the rest,you guys have explained the gameplay to me TWICE now,and the "fog of confusion left by the darkside has lifted".I'm probably the only non-PC,console playing member on this forum.Thanks for bearing with me and ,thanks for having patience......

[Hannibal]

You're definitely right about hearing different things about the gameplay. If I didn't know what the gameplay was I'd be confused too.

 

Some reviews make it seem like you have a choice between actually swinging the saber (like in Obi-Wan and JK) and turn-based (like NWN). People are going to be real disappointed when they find out that their is no controlling your character through repetitive button pushing.

 

At least they'll dig the story though.

[TheChosenOne-]

I wanna see how you saber fight with blocking,and counters using menu scrolling-lol

[Jedi Apprentice]

You queue up your actions in the menus and then it plays out cinematically.

 

Kind've like this....

 

I attack while the enemy AI is using blocks, counter parries, feints, etc. Then the enemy attacks while your PC or other party members do the same. I don't think all of your party has to attack at the same time either, so you can have offensive and defensive going at the same time. Add some force attacks and you have some nice combat.

 

So there is always movement filling in the blanks.

 

Watch some of the videos, especially the 21 minute preview to see the menu combat in full action.

 

Note: The above explanation was taken from a developer. I just re-wrote it.

[reptille00]

The saber fights are controlled by the computer..an example would be you come across a sith..go into combat..pick a certain attack..the computer figures out if youll hit him, or if hell dodge, block etc. based on his stats compared to yours, you dont do the blocking yourself..its all stat based. you just pick the attacks you want your character to perform..I assume if you dont pick an attack when you go into combat, your character will just do normal attacks by default..hope that gives you somewhat of an idea of the fighting...this might not be completely accurate...but I think it's pretty close.

[Jedi Apprentice]

Yepp, pretty good addition to the explanation, Master Reptile.

 

I forgot to mention the stats, but it basically just uses the turn-based engine to determine if your attack is succesful or not.

 

It just moves a lot faster, however.

 

I do think the devs said there would be default attacks, but if you use them you would get your rear kicked.

 

Just remember guys-- It has a turn-based engine, but plays out in real-time. Thus making it quasi-realtime.

 

 

@MR--I must learn more about this "hell move".

 

Edit: Bah, I decided to throw in the "official" stuff as well.

 

Combat--Control explained by Bob McCabe:

 

You see a hostile. He runs at you. You select him and tell your PC to attack. Your PC then enters into a cinematic battle where he attacks each round.

 

While your PC is not attacking, your round is filled up with feints and parries and dodges and swings, so it is almost as if there are no rounds at all; your player is always engaged in that combat, and never stops to wait for his next attack.

 

At any time, you can bring up the combat menus and pick from a list of feats, or Force powers, or choose to use an item. You will use that feat or Force power or item once, and then return to attacking normally.

 

However, you may enter actions in repeatedly, and those actions will queue - with you performing one each time you get a round to attack in. So you might enter three actions during one round. The first action would take place during that round, while the other two would queue up for the next two rounds, respectively.

 

You may also do all of the above by pausing the game first, making your choices, and then unpausing the game to enjoy the beauty of combat.

 

As well, when a menu is opened up, the game slows down, as has been mentioned in other posts. I greatly enjoy watching the battles in slow-motion to take that cinematic experience one step further.

 

And, in addition to all of the above, there are multiple party members that you may control - to further enhance the strategy aspects. Switching between party members requires the press of a single button, and may be done while paused.

 

Combat--Dynamics explained by Casey Hudson:

 

The Obi-Wan and Darth Maul fight was the inspiration for the combat system. Our challenge was to create a combat system that plays that smoothly and quickly, with the player having the ability to control their character's moves. At the same time, the combat system must use your character's stats to determine how successful each move will be. We've been very excited to see that this is in fact how the combat system is shaping up.

 

So, you'll definitely see smoothly animating lightsaber fights. Even though the fights are based on combat rounds as in D20, your character will be doing aggressive Jedi movements even while not attacking.

[TheChosenOne-]

So,in a nutshell--i really don't fight,just choice command and watch a fight?? If the darth maul/Obi wan fight was a inspiration,then the damn game shouldv'e been more like Soul Caliber.

We choice a command,the cpu uses it against a sith and it goes back and forth.Sort of like Final fantasy,but in realtime right?F**K,i already asked that question,nevermind.

I'm going out on a limb and saying that i trust you guys,you forum members.You guys got me hyped for this,and even if i'm "iffy" on this control system,you say its great....then i'll trust you.Guess i'll have to learn this system.I'm keeping a open mind to this.

BTW--who the hell thought of this,,,why not Hack-n-Slash,or at least a option for it-lol.

[reptille00]

The force is weak in you, "Chosenone"

[Burrie]

So,in a nutshell--i really don't fight,just choice command and watch a fight?? If the darth maul/Obi wan fight was a inspiration,then the damn game shouldv'e been more like Soul Caliber.

 

If the damn game were a fighting game, or the damn game was a Diablo-like hack-n-slash, then the damn game should've had those options. But this game is a RPG. As always, in RPGs, one doesn't rely on his own skills to survive or finish the story, but the skills of the character(s) that he's playing. To get a character good at something, you'll have to let him utlise that one skill for awhile, before he advances and becomes an expert with that certain weapon.

 

In a way, that's one of the things that I really like about RPGs. Seeing your character slowly advancing into a more powerful character. When I first got the lightsaber in Jedi Outcast, I truly felt as if I was wielding a lightsaber for the first time. My moves felt uncoordinated, and extremely sloppy. I really had to slowly remaster the new saber system as the game continued. This made the first lightsaber duel extremely fun, as they were a big challenge. But now, whenever I grab the saber at the start, I still possess the same skills I had when I had played a previous game. I don't "re-discover" the Force each time. It isn't amazing anymore when I, say, hold off an entire legion with the lightsaber or manage to beat a Reborn in a one-on-one battle.

 

For a RPG, that pretty much happens with your main character. Once we have created our first lightsaber, the PC would've never handled one of these ancient weapons before. His moves will be sloppy, he'd be barely able to block a single laser bolt, and fighting a Dark Jedi is totally out of the question. Only as we advance the story can we see our PC slowly growing into a powerful Jedi Knight. Each time, it would feel that our character has advanced when he was capable of blocking all those shots from those Sith Troopers, or was able to defeat those two Dark Jedi with his twin lightsabers.

 

I'm going out on a limb and saying that i trust you guys,you forum members.You guys got me hyped for this,and even if i'm "iffy" on this control system,you say its great....then i'll trust you.Guess i'll have to learn this system.I'm keeping a open mind to this.

 

Again, I really recommend that you should try the Neverwinter Nights demo, Chosen One, if you can handle the download. It will give you a much better idea what the combat will be like.

 

BTW--who the hell thought of this,,,why not Hack-n-Slash,or at least a option for it-lol.

 

Well, besides the fact that it's a Bioware RPG, it could also be rather... unrealistic, but could also seriously unbalance the game. Say, we are developing our character in a way that he's a great healer, but is barely able to carry a gun. If we fight in RPG-mode, he's unable to hit a bantha if he was standing next to him. Suddenly, we go into combat, I choose the H&S-mode, and my own PC is suddenly rushing headlong into battle alongside the battle NPCs, capable of blasting away an army of Sith Troopers or dodging those plasma grenades without breaking a sweat, even though there has never been any indication that he could use these skills.

 

Plus, if Bioware would implement both a Hack-and-Slash and a RPG battle option, both combat system will suffer. You can't have two entirely different systems in a game, and expect both to be top-notch. That is, unless you want the game to be post poned to a much later release date.

[Frosty_V2.1]

I think you are thinking this is a game sorta like Deus Ex where (for instance) you actually fire a gun like in a normal FPS but your skill stat makes the accuracy of the shot better.

 

One thing to add apart from what's been said, from the videos and various stuff, it looks like unless your party is a fair bit stronger than the enemies you are facing you may not get to give one command and sit back and watch the AI beat them for you...you gotta get in there and use the abilities, buff up the party etc...

 

 

_ _ _

Oh, and not to steal attension from KOTOR, but Deus Ex: Invisible War is coming simultaneously for PC and XBOX also in fall, you might find that game interesting as well *end pimping*

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by TheChosenOne-

We choice a command,the cpu uses it against a sith and it goes back and forth.Sort of like Final fantasy,but in realtime right?

 

This is better than FF because there is no break in the action. In FF you'd swap moves back and forth like Chess. That's not how combat happens.

If that's how battle was a boxing match would be like this:

Boxer #1 jabs then waits...

Boxer #2 jabs then waits...

Boxer #1 jabs then waits...

Boxer #2 jabs then waits...

Boxer #1 jabs then waits...

Boxer #2 jabs then waits...

Boxer #1 jabs then waits...

Boxer #2 upper cuts then waits...

Boxer #1 falls.

In FF you could see the characters waiting for the round to end. You wont see that in KOTOR. It will be continous.

[TheChosenOne-]

Remind me,that when i become rich and powerful,to call apon you guys to help me design my own Star wars game-lol.Ok,ok..i get it---its a RPG.Can't get away with hack stuff.Ok,you guys have made your points.I tried to download the Neverwinter nights demo,and my cpu freeze.I think maybe it was the link,or my dial up is waayyy to slow(i'm getting dsl soon)

A friend of mine,suggested that KOTOR may be like a old psx game called "parasite eve".It wasn't what i was used too,but i got used to it and finished the game.I got a friend coming over to help update my cpu and sh*t.I'm going to try afterwards to download both the 21 minute trailer and the neverwinter demos.

It'll be a big step for me to use this kinda of combat.I'm definitly not used to it,buuut i will....at some point.My questions or complains may have been silly or stupid to some,but theres gotta be someone ELSE who benefited from it.Too many cheifs ruin a cake....too many opinions/rumors ruin a game.Thanks for clearing it up for me....

--Oh master reptile-The force isn't weak in me,I just used it wrong.

[Frosty_V2.1]

Hey, a bit off this topic but I was browsing some magazines today when I took a look at a copy of Hyper, which is an Aussie mag I think, anyway, it says on the last page(the coming next issue page) something like "Smouldering reviews of..Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Enter the Matrix, Soul Caliber II" I think it says it said the next issue is coming June something...well it was a J anyway, I will check this out tommorow. This could possibly be a beta version review or something.

Haven't really payed any attension to that mag, anyone know if it's reliable?

[Frosty_V2.1]

Sorry for double post..well I had another look at the mag and it does say "...reviews of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic..." June 4th for this next issue for Australia at least(tomorrow)...it may actually only be another preview, but theres no harm in hoping:)