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Vainamoinen

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Posts posted by Vainamoinen

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

    It's like the Look command has had its effects placed on the hovering text. Instead of needing to examine the kitchen door to hear Dominic say, "Smells good in there," it gives Guybrush's thoughts on the hover.

     

    Nah. That's not where 7000 lines of dialog come from. 😅

     

    I think it's a bit more complex and versatile. The mouseover gives you a lot of things, but not full fledged commentary. It seems to oscillate between the simple verb plus noun, intent, fleeting thoughts and a bit of a questlog. I can be used for a lot I guess, but that's all with the left mouse button. If it still retains some of the key control principles of Delores, the right click is where the verb magic happens.

     

    • Like 1

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

     

    1 hour ago, OzzieMonkey said:

    I'm a little nervous about the trailer tbh, excited for a release date, but worried that we'll see too much.

     

    Mostly just worried that ReMI will still not be in the GOG catalog this week, which would mean that I'd have to sever ties with the fandom cleanly and immediately until it's clear I can even play the game on release day. Emergency break before the hype train hits the wall at full speed. 🥺

     

    1 hour ago, BillyCheers said:

    On this german Nintendo site it says that it looks like there’s gonna be a retail edition of the switch version:

     

    Can't even be happy about that. It kind of cements the temporary console exclusivity, and that's even more horrible for the indies than for the AAAs. I really hope this gamescom thing isn't bareback Steamtendo ...

    • Sad 1

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    27 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

    Its really interesting seeing the dress get a critical reassessment in current times. The content of the game hasn't changed, but society has around it.

     

    It was felt to be a cheap joke back then that they didn't try to squeeze as many laughs out of as they could have. A throwaway joke. Now the chance cross dresser who doesn't at all feel queasy to cross dress feels progressive, I guess. But society will keep on changing and in thirteen years' time, who knows how those scenes will hold up.

     

    Every Monkey Island got it wrong a little, and not just in a "product of its time" kind of way. Creators are human beings with the best intentions – Gilbert didn't call Anita Sarkeesian his personal hero for no reason at all – but you can not do everything right just because you try to. Already the choice to use the same voice actress for Carla and the Voodoo Lady ("vaguely black coded female voice actress") feels not ideal to me.

     

    Sometimes I feel like we should rate the best intentions higher than the fuckups in the final narrative. It's certainly something I do when e. g. watching John Hughes movies. Another can of worms is of course that if the creator turns out to be a sack of shit, do you condemn his entire work of art, or not? I know I've made vastly differing choices in that respect. Thankfully, I don't see Ron Gilbert or Dave Grossman ever letting me down in that respect.

    • Like 3

    Where, in your mind, is the alley placed in relation to the Mêlée Town high street?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Laserschwert said:

    I've noticed that Low Street has turned from a U-turn (with a fascade where the map dealer stands in MI1) to a 90 degree corner (or an L-turn) in RtMI. The U-turn looked like it was directly taken from the Rothenburg "reference", whereas the RtMI version makes the background look more like a 90 degree camera pan.

     

    I have the feeling that these new backgrounds are even more warped than the original ones, and some of that original geometry was a little vertigo inducing already. 😅

     

    It still works though. See, you have to squint and sort of turn your head, and ...

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    3 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

    Yeah, the best part of this joke is how it just happens basically without comment.

     

    It's the same thing with the pink dress joke later in the game. But somehow I feel like the pink dress joke still works because of that.

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    4 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

    This may be a long shot, but is it possible that the "World Premiere" next week is just the game dropping and the trailer we get is in fact a launch trailer to tell people "go buy it right now, it's out"?

     

    I'm not up to speed in game culture these days, so I'm going to ask: How often has this actually happened these last ten years? Because I'm going to guess "never". 😬 I absolutely expect the new trailer to be a release date trailer though, I mean, how many damn trailers are they going to make?

     

    8 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    Possibly. It was some of the worst journalism I can remember reading.

     

    Had the forces of evil prevailed eight years ago, this (link) is the kind of journalism we'd have today, minus the sarcasm.

     

    7 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

    Why... simultaneous joyful anticipation and blue-fired rage/fear, of course. Co-existing in the same space. ;) 

     

    For me, the ghostly image of fleshy lips superimposed over the rotting skelletal jaw symbolizes ... ermmmmmmm .... let's say, getting the word out there about a new instalment in an aging series, against impossible odds.

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vainamoinen

    17 hours ago, LowLevel said:

    Is it... paper?

    It's still made from trees I guess, but wafer would sue you for defamation if you said it's as thin.

     

    17 hours ago, Staple Remover said:

    And here’s a chicken, let the speculating begin.

    THREE chickens. And I take the memes over the speculation.

     

    1 hour ago, BillyCheers said:

    Murray as a sidekick (if done well) could be cool.

    🏴‍☠️ Murray as a VERB could be cool! 🏴‍☠️

     

    2 hours ago, Al.DeHyde said:

    To sort of hark back to Escape being a more suggestive game; as a Brit I find this line way more amusing and rude than the American writers intended 😁

    I guess the c-word was reserved for "chicken" all along.

     

    33 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    And it just suddenly switched gear halfway through earnestly proclaiming how inclusive the game was going to be (was anyone concerned it was going to be offensive?).

     

    Uhm ... I admit, I kind of think that it 🐻s repeating.

     

    Especially when looking at the unedited versions of comments on Ron's blog or the trailer on youtube, it becomes abundantly clear that a whole lot of people thought it was going to made for cis white males. It really is better to punch these dudes repeatedly in the face with how "woke" something is going to be and how "woke" The Secret of Monkey Island and LeChuck's Revenge actually were back in the day, because they're actually really stupid people.

     

    TSoMI was the story of a pudgy guy who knows nothing about the world, who first gets beaten by a competent black woman several times, then attempts to rescue a damsel for two thirds of the game even though she was in control of the situation for the entirety of the game. LeChuck's Revenge shows that "damsel" naming her dog after the protagonist and throwing him out of her house while he's not in any discomfort at all wearing a pink dress (well, it has no pockets).

     

    Copy that, paste that, they don't understand even after a thousand times. I'm sure that in some forums, new shitstorms will emerge on that old info, but come release day, they will still be surprised again.

     

    Regarding the criticism of modern game journalism, this really is a special case, because the journalist probably handed in his script, and then Ron and Dave said "you can't say that" to a few parts, then Devolver to others, and Disney to all of them. If this feels like shredded bits of wood, it probably wasn't the journalist who did the shredding.

     

    • Like 3

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    20 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

    EDIT: But more importantly, weren't the Pirate Leaders always useless and unimpressive?

     

    Useless, unimpressive and inactive. They basically sat around in the Scumm Bar and pretended to drink grog. Made every passing flooring inspector a pirate so they wouldn't have to do squat. They did nothing against the LeChuck threat in TSoMI and when the governor was kidnapped... they were not seen again.

    So, basically, now we have active pirate leaders with a plan and some voodoo stuff. Ye Olde Pirate Leaders took over the shop and are blowing up blowfish. 🐡

    And there's actually a blowfish emoji in here! That will come in handy for walkthroughs.

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

    Unpopular opinions

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    On 8/2/2022 at 11:07 AM, BaronGrackle said:

    You are not a Lucasarts Star Wars gamer from the 90s-00s? No Kyle Katarn, X-Wing and TIE Fighter, and/or Knights of the Old Republic?

     

    No, no, no, and FUCK YEEEEEEEESSSS

     

    On 8/2/2022 at 11:07 AM, BaronGrackle said:

    KOTOR has some moments that feel pretty adventure gamey.

     

    These adventure gamey moments in RPGs always feel so half assed. It's really not the same kind of exploration or combination. I wish the genres would actually seamlessly merge, that really has potential. Point and click adventure RPGs. I'd buy those! But I'd rather make those myself.

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    11 hours ago, andygeers said:

    So what if Ron never really had a very concrete vision for Monkey Island 3... so what if there is no "real" Secret of Monkey Island...

    I'll tell you why I am so excited for a final *Ron Gilbert* Monkey Island game... I desperately want to get to the bottom of what is the real relationship between Guybrush and LeChuck.

    There are so many clues hidden in MI2: LeChuck's Revenge - the feather in the Booty Island shop, the dream sequence, the library book about the Junior Ultra Soldier Commando Assault Vehicle... and yet for all these decades we've never had a clear answer. I put a video together about it: 

     

     

    I can't wait to play the new game... and I desperately hope we'll finally get some insight!


    What a silly question. They're obviously lovers.

     

    I mean, great video at just over five minutes. I hate how people drag their videos out nowadays so youtube's search algorithm doesn't forget about them.

     

    And some nice little flashbacks into Guybrush's childhood would be incredible. 🥰

    • Like 1

    Where, in your mind, is the alley placed in relation to the Mêlée Town high street?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    13 hours ago, madmardi said:

    Anyways, great job - if I had any artistic talent I'd try recreating it myself.

     

    Thank you! I might reevaluate the map after playing ReMI ... and draw a new one. Next time, with a bit more pizzaz. 🍕

     

    3 hours ago, Marius said:

    Ok I finally have time to respond.

    I can't put into words how amazing it is that you made this beautiful map @Vainamoinen. I love maps! My brain always tries to draw one mentally, and Mêlée Town specifically feels so real to me.

    This tiny move to the left Guybrush does while approaching High Street now has more context. I can see him going down that route you drew, followed by him climbing some stairs.

    Also, wild: I never felt that the town is built on a hill that you are climbing. But it's so obvious: Where is the water next to the mansion? I never really questioned it.

    Anyway, just some random thoughts that your map gives me. Amazing artwork!

    (Also: "Gefischtwarenladen" 😄)

     

    And here I thought "Duck Island" would get you first. 😛

     

    Thank you so much! I love maps so much, every time they show Wally as a gullible punching bag I'm like BUT HE DRAWS MAPS HE'S LIKE A SUPERHERO YOU DORKS. I hope Return can set the record straight and have him save Elaine and Guybrush from a burning building. Or maybe there's actually time travel involved, he goes back in time, the cannibals chop off his head and use him as a navigato ... oooookay, let's not go there.

     

    I always interpreted Mêlée Town as a tiny village at the edge of a vast island wilderness, just a starting port for budding pirates. Maybe I just wanted to feel like TSoMI gave us the full picture. My map mostly tries to link what we've already experienced as backgrounds with Secret's title screen. The title screen shows a certain elevation of the glowing lights already, but it's the clocktower background that really gave me a sense of 'going up': The archway to the right shows houses placed significantly lower. And left to the actual clock tower there's a building that could either be five or six stories high ... or it's simply placed much higher than Hand-at-ten Avenue. Add to that that coastal towns usually take care not to be accidentally washed away (Florida being the exception to the rule) and Bob's your ghost uncle.

     

     

    • Like 3

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

    I don't know. I'm a bit suspicious of the idea that modern media is 'infantalising'

     

    I was talking about a strong trend in modern games (notably neither about books, comics, movies or other narrative media!!). Now, we've seen some great narrative games that counter this trend this last decade. But as soon as games are, as Sean Vanaman would say, "gamey" (WHICH I LIKE), the mechanics of the media dictate that there's a challenge involved, a competition, a puzzle that you would master, win or solve, yielding the feeling of success. It's my personal theory that "gamey" story games tend to communicate to the player that "all is well because you fixed it all" at the end. The designers/authors are afraid that the crucial feeling of success or accomplishment is getting muddied by a less than perfectly good ending is perceived as a failure.

     

    7 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

    But I've been thinking about this lately. Just what stories have been like lately and... like... the world. And I wonder if I'm not inclined just to cut the human race a little slack on the subject of what stories they want to be told at the moment. Sure, sure, there's value in telling stories that have a lot of emotional nuance, and don't necessarily have perfect fairytale endings. But also I can't really fault someone right now for sitting down in front of their computer/television/whatever and thinking: 'you know what, I'd like to slip into a world where everything turns out fine in a clear and uncomplicated way, just for a bit, please'.

     

    I have absolutely nothing against stories where it's clear from the get go that those two characters will end up together, the kingdom will be saved and the protagonist will be filthy rich. No problem and I of course see what you mean with those hopeless modern times. No one of us will have to subject themselves to a tide of frankly depressing narratives with no hope or color. Which is the other extreme really. Personally, I don't see any worth in a serialized narrative like The Walking Dead, where there are no ifs, but only whens for dying characters.

     

    But I also dread the backlash if the supposed and possibly actual "final" instalment of the Monkey Island series gives us a less than super happy ending for Guybrush and Elaine.

    • Like 1

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vainamoinen

    34 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

    I've never heard of this thing. What's the premise?

     

    URgh, wrong ship. How embarrassing. Will amend.

    What I meant was of course that it's entirely possible to return to Melee Island in TSoMI with SeMad Monkey, swordmaster, Otis and Meathook, but Escape treats it as canon that Guybrush abandoned them marooned on Monkey Island.

     

    32 minutes ago, JacquesSparkyTail said:

     not going to lie, that sounds like nonsense. On an unrelated note i’ve just noticed bob’s pegleg has moved from his left leg in secret to his right leg in return so i’m going to go start a few small fires and start a cyber bullying campaign. 

     

    That would be so funny if I didn't see it work that way. 😆 It's the way it worked in above mentioned The Devil's Playhouse:

     

    Max dies and immediately before the game ends, an alternate universe Max appears who lacks the mostly unspecified memory of prime universe Max,

    but it doesn't really matter because Sam as well as Max are the epitome of throwaway characters anyway. Or that's what we thought at least. Riots on the Telltale forums. THEY CAN NOT DO THIS. THIS IS WRONG. And, I mean, I was amongst those rioters.

     

    If the treatment of the fictional universe and its characters that you're invested in emotionally/nostalgically is found to be lacking i.e. runs counter a perceived canon style/genre, creative choice is often even perceived as a targeted personal insult towards the fanbase, and then shitstorms happen.

    It's complete and utter nonsense as you say, but it happened already with Return to Monkey Island, and on the face of it, we know jack shit about the game yet. 😔

     

     

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vainamoinen

    8 hours ago, Aro-tron said:

    (This is a digression, but: in narrative terms, I don't think that ending fires on all cylinders because elements of it feel arbitrary - it's like, are we now supposed to care about Guybrush's childhood, or who his parents are? I don't think those things are important to the character, and I will be surprised if Return dwells on those things in any substantial way. It's also an ending that doesn't feel connected to anything the player does. On a conceptual, dream-like level I think it DOES work, but as the ending to an adventure game, which is narratively driven by the actions of the player-character, it doesn't feel totally earned. You defeat LeChuck and then just kind of watch as weird things start happening.)

     

    3 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

    Like I saw someone say once, I actually don't think for the most part plot matters substantially. You can convey the most fantastic plot in a terrible way, and likewise you can enliven the blandest plot with character work and world building, and just telling it well.

     

    @Aro-tron's theory hits the nail on the head for me. And it isn't just the gameplay that's new and fresh, the narrative has this strong contrast in that the protagonist tries to rehash the first part, but fails in that respect and finds something merely personal instead.

     

    I have to concede that LeChuck's Revenge didn't feel like that much of a grown up, deep storyline to me. But it did feel like a brilliant parody of intellectual/literature tropes, culminating in that final Star Wars reference, and a Star Wars reference it was. I'm not disappointed in that ending, but I understand all the disappointment it has gotten. The Devil's Playhouse's ending has deepened my understanding of this disappointment: In a parody setting of casual exaggeration, frequent fourth wall breaks and crass anachronisms, light hearted mentions of keelhauling or white slavers, it is a dangerous thing to care for your protagonist so much that you can not abide the integrity of the fictional reality to be scratched or even broken.

     

    Canon inconsistencies become sacrilege, interactive story elements become difficult to accept (which is why EMI made the "Guybrush sunk the Mad Sea Monkey" timeline canon). Expectations become one-sided and specific ("Monkey Island must be a pirate story, so that means that giant monkey robots can not be canon"). The perspective of the unreliable protagonist might be interpeted as absolute truth ("TSoMI was a story of great success for Guybrush, and not a senseless goose chase that turned out to be completely superfluous because the damsel was in control all along"). What happens to the protagonist has depth and meaning, an emotional truth for us, and if that emotional truth is disrepected or used for laughs by the creators, god help them. 💀

     

    We are as of right now totally in the dark about how "deep the currents are" in Return to Monkey Island. There will certainly be a bit of the personal in there, of Ron as well as Dave, and of the lives they've led. I'm pretty certain we'll have a good bit of closure in the game, it might just not be a happy ending. Unfortunately, that perfect happy ending has kind of become the standard not just in Monkey Island games, but in video games overall. Might be because developers and players confuse the feeling of success in "beating the game" with the protagonist's success in getting what she set out to do. It's a bit infantilizing, really, all these fairytale happily-ever-afters. 😄

     

    Prince of Persia (2008) had one of the best endings in video game history because it was so utterly bitter, and so expected, at least if you didn't lie to yourself. Maybe they'll try something like that for Return to Monkey Island. It'll feel like an open ending although all the loose threads have been properly cauterised.

     

    ... I'll try to keep an open mind.

     

     

    • Like 1

    Where, in your mind, is the alley placed in relation to the Mêlée Town high street?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    29 minutes ago, Thrik said:

    What rock?! Have we overlooked taking a step back for the bigger picture?

     

    A look to the left will suffice! 🪨

     

    21 minutes ago, Marius said:

    Oh boy, are we stepping into the „lets draw a map of the whole town“ territory? Yes… ha ha ha… YES!

     

    (Mostly I wonder where y‘all think high street is placed relative to low street 👀)

     

    I'm always up for drawing beautiful beautiful maps.

     

    And I'm pretty certain it's obvious where High Street and Low Street are. 🗺️

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, OzzieMonkey said:

    I just paused the clip before Wally sees Guybrush and it looks like his arms are bleeding! Maybe he suffered burns after the fortress explosion.

     

    That's the thing with Rex' art direction, it's probably wide open to interpretation. YOU DECIDE. Which is actually great for fan art!

     

    Maybe it's burn marks, maybe he's bleeding from spinning that globe too much, maybe he did what I do all the time these days, resting my arms on the table while painting and accidentally soiling everything with the paint.

     

    Personally, I will cling to the theory that he has gigantic compass needles tattooed on his forearms. It all makes sense.

    Return to Monkey Island

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vainamoinen

    5 hours ago, Marius said:

     I'll probably spend the first hour just walking around the environment. 😍

     

    * click on door * Oohhhhh iMuse transition! * click on exit * Ohhhh iMuse transition! * enter next screen * Ohhhh iMuse transition! * go back * Ohhhh iMuse transition! That last one didn't work too well though TBH. Let's try that one again.

     

    3 hours ago, JacquesSparkyTail said:

    I can see the town being the lot. Afterall the circus will have moved on, the dock and stan are now in town making stans previously owned vessels redundant and its perfectly possible they had no reason to got to see meathook.

     

    Notion rejected! All the ships have sunk in Stan's old shop. I want to go there and deep dive in ten minute increments! 🤣

     

    5 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

    Voodoo Lady's going out of business is interesting, my girlfriend said "of course she is, she doesn't have a good business model" 😂

     

    And she has well funded competition. The three new pirate leaders seem to deal in voodoo too. Time for Guybrush to nuke those folks out.

     

    5 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

    I'm starting to feel like this is a mid-life crisis kind of moment. He never found it, he's bored, and so he decides to go back to where it all began and try to recapture his youth.

     

    Something like that. Guybrush longs to grow, for a coming of age moment and some kind of fulfillment, but he can not understand that the pirate life is just a completely different kind of narrative. 😅 So he searches for another Bigger Whoop and finds something deeply personal instead. Wouldn't be the first time!

     

    5 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

    I'd imagine she isn't even there, probably off somewhere else and we bump into her on another island.

     

    We already had strong suspicions in this thread about what island she's actually on. I guess we'll stumble on her the same way we stumbled on her in LeChuck's Revenge, short, sharp and salty. They're estranged again, their goals in life could not align any less. They might be having a moment of deep emotional truth, one that you wouldn't expect in a Monkey Island game, and then they part ways again. I doubt that the conflict will be resolved in its entirety. I doubt we'll see a 'happy end'. We might see a bitter truth that Guybrush will have to face to finally grow up a little.

     

    4 hours ago, demone said:

    Symbols are also everywhere in this game. Could just be vandalism, another byproduct of Melee Island going south,  but they are also on ships.  

     

    Hopefully an elaborate puzzle. And even more hopefully, one of the Pûzzlés du Rón™ that jumble their parameters every time you start a new game!

     

    4 hours ago, LowLevel said:

    The more they show, the more I'm convinced that this game is so big that they can afford showing so many locations.

     

    That is the spiriiiit!! It's not just the entirety of the OLD Mêlée Island, ohhh nooo!! They also added MOAR locations on Melee. Then they give us three to five additional islands of equal or greater size. Ahahahahaaaa!! 🤯

     

     

    16 minutes ago, demone said:

    As for Ron's thoughts on length, he also did say in the commentary for MI2 special edition that he found the game very long. I think for Return though, it's much different given how much is involved in the story at this point. So, the length of the game might be informed by that, especially given all the characters in it. 

     

    They've been working for two and a half years on this game. Less than one on LeChuck's Revenge. And compiling the game doesn't take the entire night any longer! The team is much bigger! They have more graphic designers than LeChuck has new minions! So what could go wrong? This is going to be an absurdly massive game and speedruns are going to be ten hours long.

    Still want to know who this Putra is.

     

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